New critters

Here is the beginning of my small rat colony and the tubs I put together.

First is the main tub
http://www.glassreptiles.com/pictures/2006/tub1.jpg

And the first maternity/grow out tub
http://www.glassreptiles.com/pictures/2006/tub2.jpg

Here is the group together. Forgive me if I get the types wrong. The black hooded is the biggest and is a female. The beige self is a female and the tan hooded is the male.
http://www.glassreptiles.com/pictures/2006/rats1.jpg


The black hooded female by herself. She may be pregnant but I am not quite sure. We'll know soon enough
http://www.glassreptiles.com/pictures/2006/rats2.jpg


And another group shot
http://www.glassreptiles.com/pictures/2006/rats3.jpg


They all have great personalities. I never knew rats were so cool!

Looks like some pretty comfy digs!

They really are neat. One of my little sisters had a hooded rat when we were teens. I was horrified when she bought it, thinking 'who on earth WANTS a rodent?'. We had been living on a farm, and we actively tried to get rid of any rodents, so I couldn't imagine what she wanted with this thing.
It didn't take long, maybe a few days, before I was getting him out to play, though, haha.

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Looks like some pretty comfy digs!

They really are neat. One of my little sisters had a hooded rat when we were teens. I was horrified when she bought it, thinking 'who on earth WANTS a rodent?'. We had been living on a farm, and we actively tried to get rid of any rodents, so I couldn't imagine what she wanted with this thing.
It didn't take long, maybe a few days, before I was getting him out to play, though, haha.

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They are really cute and have such personalities!

Very cute! :)
Rats are very intelligent, and very clean animals..They even clean their faces after you handle them :) Thankfully they dont smell as bad as other rodents, and are normally less skiddish than gerbils, and less nippy than hamsters.
Most pet stores would rather reach in to a rat cage than a gerbil or hamster cage.. That being said if they do bite it REALLLLY smarts!

They make really good pets. Watch them for signs of RI which is common and fatal in most rats. It hits quick, one day the rat is sneezing, and within a day or so its dead :( So if you notice one sneezing, isolate it from the others, and clean the cage really well, before putting them back in together

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Originally Posted by amercnwmn

Very cute! :)
Rats are very intelligent, and very clean animals..They even clean their faces after you handle them :) Thankfully they dont smell as bad as other rodents, and are normally less skiddish than gerbils, and less nippy than hamsters.
Most pet stores would rather reach in to a rat cage than a gerbil or hamster cage.. That being said if they do bite it REALLLLY smarts!

They make really good pets. Watch them for signs of RI which is common and fatal in most rats. It hits quick, one day the rat is sneezing, and within a day or so its dead :( So if you notice one sneezing, isolate it from the others, and clean the cage really well, before putting them back in together

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Is sneezing always a sign of an RI in rats? I have heard of them sneezing after being kept on pine or cedar. These were kept on Pine I believe and one of them seems to be sneezing a bit. Ill keep an eye on her. They are all eating though and getting settled in.

Very nice looking tubs Jamie! Excellent job there on your first rat tub attempt!

Actually there is as far as I know a difference between an irritation that triggers sneezing like too dusty bedding or not enough ventilation, an RI and mycoplasmosis (see our FAQ sticky on rats for more info on that). Myco is carried by all rats but it isn't usually active and therefore you won't even know they carry it or not. If you do ever get a rat with active myco it will pass away so it's best to put them down as vet treatment isn't usually realistic in a breeder/feeder colony animal. Not all sneezing is myco and quite honestly I've not seen it in my own colony.

I've lost a couple of rats last year to sudden deaths...they just go down like a ton of bricks after appearing otherwise healthy. I expect they were heavily inbred and just failed in some way....possibly a stroke of some sort (they weren't ones I'd produced). I try hard to not inbred any further in my own colony to avoid more issues like that.

They look like nice rats Jamie. Welcome to the world of rats! :rat:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Very nice looking tubs Jamie! Excellent job there on your first rat tub attempt!

Actually there is as far as I know a difference between an irritation that triggers sneezing like too dusty bedding or not enough ventilation, an RI and mycoplasmosis (see our FAQ sticky on rats for more info on that). Myco is carried by all rats but it isn't usually active and therefore you won't even know they carry it or not. If you do ever get a rat with active myco it will pass away so it's best to put them down as vet treatment isn't usually realistic in a breeder/feeder colony animal. Not all sneezing is myco and quite honestly I've not seen it in my own colony.

I've lost a couple of rats last year to sudden deaths...they just go down like a ton of bricks after appearing otherwise healthy. I expect they were heavily inbred and just failed in some way....possibly a stroke of some sort (they weren't ones I'd produced). I try hard to not inbred any further in my own colony to avoid more issues like that.

They look like nice rats Jamie. Welcome to the world of rats! :rat:

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Thanks Jo for the info and the kudos! It was fun to do!

Well it's best to do your reading Jamie. I have a very basic understanding of myco as I've never had to deal with a myco rat in my colony. Watch the sneezing one and watch for the red tears as well. I'm sure you'll do wonderfully well with them.

Super-cute little critters there! I am looking forward to raising rats almost as much as I am looking forward to finally raising snakes! They're such neat animals!


May they be fruitful and multiply for you!

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Well it's best to do your reading Jamie. I have a very basic understanding of myco as I've never had to deal with a myco rat in my colony. Watch the sneezing one and watch for the red tears as well. I'm sure you'll do wonderfully well with them.

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I'm a big researcher...Google is my friend! One of my only friends, sad as it sounds!

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Originally Posted by JLC

Super-cute little critters there! I am looking forward to raising rats almost as much as I am looking forward to finally raising snakes! They're such neat animals!


May they be fruitful and multiply for you!

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Thanks Judy! They are pretty cool!

Another rat breeder joins the club!!! Welcome!!! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Another rat breeder joins the club!!! Welcome!!! :cool:

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Thanks bro! Its fun so far...

I told myself "albinos only" when I started. Now I have dumbos, hooded, all black, some tan colored and all kinds of colored mice also. Its kinda fun not knowing what will pop out in a litter. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I told myself "albinos only" when I started. Now I have dumbos, hooded, all black, some tan colored and all kinds of colored mice also. Its kinda fun not knowing what will pop out in a litter. ;)

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I bet! Well my fiance picked up rats that are too small so i have to separate them out and fatten em up for a while. Ill need to pick up another male so the lone male has some company :)

about the sneezing, sometimes new rats are sneezy for the first few days just because of stress and the excitement of being in a new home. as long as it is just sneezing with no runny eyes or noses they should be fine and it should go away after a few days. a few of my rats still do the sneezy thing when the get excited--like if i am feeding the rats in another tub they get all worked up and start climbing the walls and making sneezy sounds until i get to their tub. :P

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Originally Posted by mlededee

about the sneezing, sometimes new rats are sneezy for the first few days just because of stress and the excitement of being in a new home. as long as it is just sneezing with no runny eyes or noses they should be fine and it should go away after a few days. a few of my rats still do the sneezy thing when the get excited--like if i am feeding the rats in another tub they get all worked up and start climbing the walls and making sneezy sounds until i get to their tub. :P

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Thanks Em! I am sure its all good..

I like how mine will jump and hang upside down from the lid mesh of their tubs or swing by their arms or feet (the really tricky ones even tarzan swing on one arm lol). It's hilarious when one of their rat buddies tries to climb them or pull them down.

oh it is just too hilarious when they climb upside down like that on the screen! i have a few right now that will only drink from the water bottle by hanging upside down and craning their little snouts down to the spout. silly things!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I'm a big researcher...Google is my friend! One of my only friends, sad as it sounds!

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Dude...if you showered more often...:O ;)

Just kidding! You know I lub jooo...and the ratties are too cute! They really are cool animals. I agree with Judy; I'm looking forward to eventually breeding rats myself, just for the excuse of having some more permanently around. =)

I didn't know you could keep rats in just any tub like that. I thought they would chew through the sides

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Dude...if you showered more often...:O ;)

Just kidding! You know I lub jooo... =)

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I can feel the love!!

So after realizing the rats that my fiance picked up were still way to young to breed (thanks Bryan!) I had to separate them out. I didn't want the male to be lonely and now I have 2.4 in separate tubs. Thanks to monk90222 for hooking me up! Here are some pics from today.

The 2 males. One getting an ear cleaning by the other.
http://www.glassreptiles.com/picture...ts070306_1.jpg

The 2 males again!
http://www.glassreptiles.com/picture...ts070306_2.jpg

Rat in a tube. This is a common occurence over at 8 Ball :P
http://www.glassreptiles.com/picture...ts070306_3.jpg

A group shot of the 3 females that aren't in the tube :)
http://www.glassreptiles.com/picture...ts070306_4.jpg

Won't the rats chew through the tub?

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Won't the rats chew through the tub?

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Anything is possible but many people are using them successfully. I give them a lot of stuff to chew on.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Anything is possible but many people are using them successfully. I give them a lot of stuff to chew on.

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Cool, never thought about that

Very nice, Jamie! I can't get over how straight you cut those lids. I would have thought you would have used a rusty pair of toenail clippers. :P

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Very nice, Jamie! I can't get over how straight you cut those lids. I would have thought you would have used a rusty pair of toenail clippers. :P

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My reputation precedes me! Sweeeet! :D

Nope, I now use the tools for the job as long as those tools don't do any sort of measuring or leveling.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

My reputation precedes me! Sweeeet! :D

Nope, I now use the tools for the job as long as those tools don't do any sort of measuring or leveling.

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lol, Maybe I should use this design now. The little boa is out growing his shoe box. Great idea

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

lol, Maybe I should use this design now. The little boa is out growing his shoe box. Great idea

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What Jamie has done here with these tubs and the hardware cloth cutout area is for rats and wouldn't be appropriate for your boa. Hardware cloth is likely to give you endless problems with humidity for a snake as well as being an issue for severe nose rubs. It's the right stuff for rats however as they can easily chew through lighter mesh materials.

Nice group of ratties you've got there Jamie. Looks like a good group to start on the road to breeding your own feeders.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

What Jamie has done here with these tubs and the hardware cloth cutout area is for rats and wouldn't be appropriate for your boa. Hardware cloth is likely to give you endless problems with humidity for a snake as well as being an issue for severe nose rubs. It's the right stuff for rats however as they can easily chew through lighter mesh materials.

Nice group of ratties you've got there Jamie. Looks like a good group to start on the road to breeding your own feeders.

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Of course I would make needed changes such as use screen, needed ventelation holes, ect

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

What Jamie has done here with these tubs and the hardware cloth cutout area is for rats and wouldn't be appropriate for your boa. Hardware cloth is likely to give you endless problems with humidity for a snake as well as being an issue for severe nose rubs. It's the right stuff for rats however as they can easily chew through lighter mesh materials.

Nice group of ratties you've got there Jamie. Looks like a good group to start on the road to breeding your own feeders.

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Thanks Jo! We can't get over how social they are. Shannon is in love with them. I don't know how she'll feel when we have to feed off babies (or how i'll feel) but we'll worry about that when it happens!

Jo is right, hardware cloth is not good for boas (screen in general is a bad idea as they are notorious nose rubbers). I have a big BCI that was kept in a glass tank with a screen top for years and she has permanent scarring on her nose. But thanks for the compliments on the tubs. They were fun to do!

Totally understand that Jamie. As much as I enjoy my rat colony it wasn't easy at first to feed off their young (especially the pups). As I said to you before though just don't let yourself do more than good maintenance care of the feeders and save your attention for the breeders...that helps somewhat. Also remembering that rats are meant by nature to be prey and as long as you give them a good care level prior to feeding them off, they've fulfilled their natural place in life and had a much better existence than most rats would ever have.

They are very socialable, quite intelligent rodents but in the end they are rodents and if allowed to breed and not used properly as prey animals would quickly overrun their environment, sicken and die. For some reason, for me anyways, remembering that I'm just kind of a facilitator in the predator/prey dynamic works.

Darn you all! I'm seriously considering breeding rats now. I'm tired of $36 a week feeding bills. Jamie, can you post a picture of how you have the water bottle rigged up?


So, I looked at the FAQ's, can anyone give me a ratio I should consider to feed 14 ball pythons? Currently, 4 '06 babies, 8 yearlings and 2 adults?

Well Robin I currently have a ratio of one adult male breeding rat to 4 adult female breeding rats and I have tons of feeders for the 4 adult/sub-adult BP's, 1 baby BP and one almost yearling BCI we feed weekly (the adult BCI and the almost yearling milksnake I usually buy for as they eat either oversized rats that aren't worth me raising up or mice which I refuse to breed). Most of my requirements are in the weaned/small smalls size range of rats.

Granted my adult female rats are all experienced females and regularily produce 14 plus pinks with no losses so you have to figure when you start out your females will produce smaller litters usually the first time out. As well you'll need growing out feeder tubs depending on what sizes you are needing.

If you started out with say 1 male and 4 females you should do well I think. Figure if you cycle in 2 females with him and they produce first time up say 10 young each, then pull them to maternity tubs and cycle in the other 2 females a week or so later. Then you would have about 20 rat young with another 20 born about a week or so after the first litters. That should give you a decent amount of young to at least start out with and see how it goes. It took us a couple of months of cycling in pairs of females with Casanova before we hit our stride and were completely feeding the BP's from our own rat colony.

Depending on if you buy very young rats to start out you may want to do what Jamie did and buy two males as no rat should live alone long...they really need other rats to socialize with. Even with our big breeding male if he doesn't have any females in with him we put in a couple of his sons from the male feeder tub for company.

As far as costs just a very rough estimate. I buy a huge bage of bedding every month for about $5.00. My own homemade rat mix I mix up every two weeks in a big bucket.....including the base lab block I buy in bulk and all the odds and ends I toss in it comes to around $11.00 to $15.00 very two weeks...so $30.00 per month on feed. The kitchen scraps I don't count of course as they would have just been garbage anyways. So for my colony of rats which is about 35 to 40 right now with two litters expected in the next week or so (that includes breeders, juveniles being raised to breed and feeders)....it costs us about $35.00 a month give or take actual cash outlay.

I can cost out the setup like I use if you need it. I don't rack the rats though we may get around to designing something one day for that. Currently they are just in a combination of bigger clear tubs (for the feeders), one big main wire rat cage where my breeder male lives in all his glory and "entertains" his ladies and a series of 10 gallon tanks which I use for one rat only maternity tanks or resting tanks for the females to hang out in for a week or two after they finishing weaning and before they head back in with Nova.

I have all the above on a great plastic shelving unit I bought from WalMart. Has four large shelves (capacity 75 lbs per shelf), snaps together without tools and cost me all of $17.88! It's by DuraShelf #9144 and most any WalMart stocks it. I'll get some pics of the rat setup as soon as I can for you. It's nothing special and a bit ghetto compared to the lovely rat racks some here build but it works okay for a small home colony.

jo, looks like you've got the rats down pretty good. must be nice to be able to raise/breed your own feeders. if/when we move out of surburbia, i'm going to do a rat shed.


robin, are you buying your feeders at pet stores? if so, try to get in with one of the employees and get the # to their rodent supplier. me and a few guys here locally buy direct from the pet store's supplier, about half price of retail. the same as the stores pays.


vaughn

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Originally Posted by kavmon

robin, are you buying your feeders at pet stores? if so, try to get in with one of the employees and get the # to their rodent supplier. me and a few guys here locally buy direct from the pet store's supplier, about half price of retail. the same as the stores pays.


vaughn

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I've tried that - all the employees are family members and they are NOT giving up their sources. They won't even give out my phone number with my permission to people who are surrendering ball pythons when they don't have the room for them.

I've tried googling for rat suppliers, but all I find are small breeders locally who clearly state on their website that they breed pets, not feeders.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Darn you all! I'm seriously considering breeding rats now. I'm tired of $36 a week feeding bills. Jamie, can you post a picture of how you have the water bottle rigged up?


So, I looked at the FAQ's, can anyone give me a ratio I should consider to feed 14 ball pythons? Currently, 4 '06 babies, 8 yearlings and 2 adults?

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Here is the water bottle pic. $3 at Petsmart and one of the new male rat

http://www.glassreptiles.com/picture...aterbottle.jpg

http://www.glassreptiles.com/picture.../rat070406.jpg

Thanks Vaughn, it is rewarding being independent of the pet stores or rat suppliers in our own little way. The rat rack is actually in our den Vaughn and believe it or not there's almost no smell associated with our colony (currently about 40 rats with 2 litters due shortly). I actually asked a friend once if I just couldn't smell them anymore and she said my rats smell better than her 4 cats LOL.

Oh btw Robin before I forget that plastic free standing shelving from WalMart I mentioned has a footprint of only 35.25" wide x 14.25" deep (the rack itself is 55.25" high) so it basically takes up no more than your average deep bookcase.