A little advice?

I gave Trey his last antibiotic shot night before last. When I took him to the vet two weeks ago, he told me I might be tube feeding for quite a while, and to wait 2 weeks before trying another mouse.
Well, it's been 2 weeks, but of course as I stated, I just finished up with the antibiotic shots. Tonight he is due for a tube feeding.
What I wonder is, should I go ahead and tube feed him, or wait a few more days and try a mouse? Will he even want to eat a mouse if he's been fed this way?
Or should I call the vet and ask him what he thinks?
Trey is still at 51g, so far from a good weight, at 12 weeks old.

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

I gave Trey his last antibiotic shot night before last. When I took him to the vet two weeks ago, he told me I might be tube feeding for quite a while, and to wait 2 weeks before trying another mouse.
Well, it's been 2 weeks, but of course as I stated, I just finished up with the antibiotic shots. Tonight he is due for a tube feeding.
What I wonder is, should I go ahead and tube feed him, or wait a few more days and try a mouse? Will he even want to eat a mouse if he's been fed this way?
Or should I call the vet and ask him what he thinks?
Trey is still at 51g, so far from a good weight, at 12 weeks old.

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What do you mean by tube feeding? Are you tubing him for the purpose of administering meds? Or are you using a pinkie pump to provide nutrients?

Jamie, per her vet - she is tube feeding food to the snake. Adam advised her in another thread that if the vet recommended doing that, that she should.


I don't know what to advise on which to try this week - someone more experienced than myself should offer advice on that.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Jamie, per her vet - she is tube feeding food to the snake. Adam advised her in another thread that if the vet recommended doing that, that she should.


I don't know what to advise on which to try this week - someone more experienced than myself should offer advice on that.

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Hmm..Tube feeding food huh? I would agree that if its what the vet recommended then she should but I am not sure its the best thing. Is the problem that the snake wont eat prey items? What have you tried to feed? Tube feeding (or tubing the snake at all) is pretty stressful and in my opinion might do more harm than good. But again, thats my opinion from my experiences of dealing with non eaters and having tubed snakes for the purposes of providing medication.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Tube feeding (or tubing the snake at all) is pretty stressful and in my opinion might do more harm than good.

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Some snakes get soooo sick that they totally lose the capability to hunt, constrict, and swallow prey on their own ... at that point, tube feeding them a protein rich diet until they regain the body weight and muscle tone to be able to feed on their own is paramount ... otherwise they will die.

A snake that is physically capable of feeding on its own in my opinion should never be tube fed or even force fed.

-adam

Here you go Jamie - some background information:


http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...3&page=1&pp=20

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Some snakes get soooo sick that they totally lose the capability to hunt, constrict, and swallow prey on their own ... at that point, tube feeding them a protein rich diet until they regain the body weight and muscle tone to be able to feed on their own is paramount ... otherwise they will die.

A snake that is physically capable of feeding on its own in my opinion should never be tube fed or even force fed.

-adam

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100% agreed..Its part of why I questioned the history since I dont remember seeing the original thread.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Here you go Jamie - some background information:


http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...3&page=1&pp=20

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Thanks for that. Not sure how I missed that thread.

I'm not sure what a pinkie pump is, but this is what the vet gave me:

http://sarah.digeratihost.com/images/syringe.jpg

He said to use Ensure Plus Protein, or a high protein baby food twice a week with it. He said I might be doing this for 6 months. I don't have a problem doing it, but I was leaving the office and just turned and asked when I should try mice again. He looked surprised and said "at least for 2 weeks". At the time, I didn't think to ask if I should discontinue tube feeding for a certain amount of days before attempting a mouse, but now that the situation actually confronts me, I have this question. Hopefully someone will be experienced enough to answer it, otherwise I will just go ahead and tube feed him tonight, as scheduled, and consult the vet again. I don't have a problem with calling him, now that I'm much more informed, thanks to this site.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Hmm..Tube feeding food huh? I would agree that if its what the vet recommended then she should but I am not sure its the best thing. Is the problem that the snake wont eat prey items? What have you tried to feed? Tube feeding (or tubing the snake at all) is pretty stressful and in my opinion might do more harm than good. But again, thats my opinion from my experiences of dealing with non eaters and having tubed snakes for the purposes of providing medication.

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Sorry, I forgot to answer a question. I tried f/t pinkies, f/t fuzzies, and live of each. He would kill the live ones, but not eat them. Later on, after the trip to the vet, he did develope a wobbly head, which he hadn't exhibited before. I'm thrilled to report that he no longer does that! He is seeming much stronger now, but I don't want to rush this. If he needs more tube feeding, I'm more than willing to do that. I do understand that this could stress him, though, so I would like to make the switch to mice as soon as he's ready. I just don't really know how to KNOW when he's ready.

I may be totally off base with this - BUT - I would do one or the other, but not both. If the vet feels that he can go two weeks of not being tube fed in order to feed a mouse, I'd start with a live hopper mouse.

Did the vet recommend or attempt to assist feed? Prior to seeing the vet did you attempt any of the common tricks to get him eating?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I may be totally off base with this - BUT - I would do one or the other, but not both. If the vet feels that he can go two weeks of not being tube fed in order to feed a mouse, I'd start with a live hopper mouse.

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Thanks, Robin, that helps tremendously! I'm positive he's not ready to go two weeks without feeding, so I will wait until he is much stronger to try going off tube feeding. He's just stabilized in the past few days.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Did the vet recommend or attempt to assist feed? Prior to seeing the vet did you attempt any of the common tricks to get him eating?

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Yes, I did attempt quite a few tricks, including dangling and assist feeding. I'm pretty sure <now that I know a lot more> that the I didn't get the f/t'd warm enough beforehand, though.

How is his demeanor? Is he alert, tounge flicking and gripping ur arm when you handle him? Is he inquisitive in general or does he just lay around like a limp noodle? What is your setup like?

Oh yes, he's very alert, tongue flicks, tries to crawl up my sleeve. I've only taken him out in the last 2 weeks to feed and give him his antibiotic shots.
He stays in his hides, though. I figure that's due to feeding 2-3 times a week. I do see him in both hides at different times of the day.
Setup is perfect....20 gallon aquarium with a mostly covered top, 2 hides, water bowl, and he has a fake "tree" he really likes to climb on. Temps are 90-92 on warm side, 84 cool side, 50% percent humidity.

The skin on his lower body was loose when I took him to the vet, but it has definitely filled out and firmed up since then.

I got him from a pet store that had him housed with several other babies. They said they were feeding them live fuzzies, but I just know they were lying about that, now. He shows all the signs of having never fed before.

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

I got him from a pet store that had him housed with several other babies. They said they were feeding them live fuzzies, but I just know they were lying about that, now. He shows all the signs of having never fed before.

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I'm sorry you had to find out the difficult way. It's not uncommon to hear that a person working at a petsore would blatantly lie to a customer. In fact, they would say anything to make a sale if they had to imo. If he is alert and active as you say then I think he is defenitely ready to eat on his own. You should defenitely call the vet and find out an exact time frame on when to make the switch.

In the mean time, keep all handling to an absolute minimum. Fill his enclosure with loosely crumpled up newspaper. This will give him some added security. Make sure the cage is not in a high traffic environment and that he gets a good day/night light cycle. Then try and feed him an appropriate sized meal and see if he would take it. If he does not take it, try a smaller sized meal, maybe a different colored mouse a week later. Try these and see if you have any success. Good luck.

Thanks, Raj, I will take that advice. I don't have any crumpled paper in his enclosure, so I will add that. He stays in my daughter's room with the door closed, so traffic definitely isn't an issue.
Do you think I should try live, or f/t? I was only thawing at room temp before, but since then I've read that I should hold it in a baggie under warm water.

i cant really help you because everyone has already answered all your questions but i can tell you not to get discouraged. i know when a snakes not eating it's really dicouraging (atleast with me) and i cant imagine how you must feel having a non-eating snake right from the git-go. when he finally eats it makes you feel soooo much better so dont give up and dont let this keep you from enjoying the wonderful world of ball pythons. good luck Sarah!

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Thanks, Raj, I will take that advice. I don't have any crumpled paper in his enclosure, so I will add that. He stays in my daughter's room with the door closed, so traffic definitely isn't an issue.
Do you think I should try live, or f/t? I was only thawing at room temp before, but since then I've read that I should hold it in a baggie under warm water.

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Live. Being that he probably has never taken a meal, the odds that you will get him right on FT are slim. Make sure the prey size is something he can handle. I am guessing since he is pretty thin you would want a mouse fuzzy or rat pinky (depending on what you plan on feeding him regularly). Put him and the fuzzy in a brown paper bag (lunch size), fold it down and clip it. Don't worry, he can breathe in there. Put it in the cage, not on top of the heat source, turn off the light and leave the room. Come check on him in a couple hours. By the way, yes, when you feed FT you want to get it defrosted of course, but nice and hot. I leave my FT soaking in water and feed them wet and hot. Never had a complaint. Let us know how it goes!

Thanks, Jamie, I will definitely give that paper bag trick a shot, with a live rat pinky. Sounds like an excellent idea, I hope it works :)

Thanks for the encouragement, Marshall. No worries yet about getting discouraged, I just really want as much information and advice as I can get. I'm pretty addicted to this hobby, and this site!

I would defenitely take jamies advice on this. Also since you say that he is from a pet store, chances are that he is either wild caught or farm hatched. Try a live colored fuzzy(smaller the better) and see if it works. Also try rubbing the fuzzy with gerbil bedding or better yet a gerbil before feeding. This may or may not work for you, but you should try it anyway cause I have had some success with this technique in the past. Also, make sure that you feed during the evening hours when he is up and about. Make sure to "scent" the room 15-30minutes prior to feeding. Scenting means leave the fuzzy in its container next to the bps enclousre to stimulate its feeding response. Good luck.

Oh, Ok, Raj, I had never heard of some of those. I'll give 'em a go! The pet store is going to think I'm a loonie, hahaha.
I'm sure they'll give me some gerbil bedding, though they may not rub a live gerbil on my rat or whatever.
Thanks, I'm starting to feel like this might just work!

Lol, a certain amount of "looniness" is required when owning a snake imo. Also, if your bp is on oneside of the enclosure, make sure to drop the prey item in the opposite end. This is if you are going to feed the regular way instead of inside the bag.

Haha, I'm gonna have to agree with ya there ;)

Ok, I'll keep that in mind for later on. I think I'll try the bag thing until it works for a couple of feedings, then try it in the enclosure alone. I'm not sure how long I'll wait before trying at all, I don't think I would feel comfortable with more than 5 days.