Pastel Pied ball

i am getting a 100% het for pied pair.
and a pastel male in the future.
how is it that you get a pastel pied.
what is it that you need to breed.
Samuel Zaglul.

Well...the fastest, easiest, and also most expensive way to make pastel pied is to cross a pastel (or super pastel) x homozygous pied. That way all of the babies that are pastels will also be 100% het for pied. Cross those babies back to the pied parent and if the ball gods favor you, you'll get pastel pieds.

The other less expensive longer process would be to cross a pastel male to one or a group of 100% het pied females. The result offspring would give you pastel 50% het pied babies. There's a possibility that those pastels carry the gene. Cross your favorite male back to the original mom and hope for the best.

There's a lot of ways to go about making that combo, all requiring different investments of time and capital. Those are just 2 of the first that came to mind.

you can breed your male pastel to a 100% het pied girl
you would get pastels and normal babies that are 50% chance of being het pied. save the females and the pastel males. raise them up and breed back to mom or your 100% het pied male. this is the long way, the shorter ways would include buying a pied or a pastel het pied!

ps. brad beat me to it

vaughn

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Originally Posted by herplover92

i am getting a 100% het for pied pair.
and a pastel male in the future.
how is it that you get a pastel pied.
what is it that you need to breed.
Samuel Zaglul.

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When you produce a pied from your hets you need to keep a female pied.Then breed it when its old enough and large enough to your pastel.Then you keep a pastel that will be 100% het for pied and breed it back to mom or dad pied.Or you could keep a pair of your pastels that are het for pied and breed them together.I say at the earliest 10yrs you should have a pastel/pied.This is subject to change depending on when you get your het pieds and your pastel.Good luck

That works too!

So many ways to do this stuff! Gotta love it!

What I would do given the animals your listed ...

Step 1.

Breed the pastel male to the het pied girl ... keep ALL of the babies (except the 50% het pied normal looking males).

Step 2.

Breed the brightest/best looking pastel 50% possible het pied male to the het pied girl.

Breed the het pied male to all of the females produced.

-adam

So have all the pastel het pieds looked as wicked as the one that Graziani posted in the last page of his 2005 gallery? I suppose it would be too much to hope for that pastel would expose a 100% reliable het pied indicator.

It will be hard to justify not breeding your het pied female to your het pied male at your first opportunity. If you have a little extra money maybe pick up a pastel female and start by breeding your het pied male to the pastel female and also breed him to your pied het female. That way for the cost of a female pastel you don't delay your shot at producing pieds by a year in order start out the pastel pied project. Hopefully you get a wicked looking pastel male that looks highly likely to have hit his 50% chance of being het pied to justify using him on the het pied female the next year. At least then you'll have the shot at pastel pied to justify using her on a not 100% het pied male.

I’m actually much more excited about the spider pied. If spider female prices get low enough pick up a female spider to breed to your het pied male. Again, hard to say how consistent it will be but on that same page Graziani’s spider het pied looks a little different to me. Maybe you could reliably pick out a male spider het pied from the clutch (if the odds gods let you produce one) and breed it to the het pied female the next year and so add a shot at spider pied for the price of a spider female. Given the 1 in 8 odds of producing a male double het even if you could identify him on sight you might want to try both the pastel female and the spider female with the het pied male to increase your chances of getting at least one pastel or spider het pied male the first year.

I might have to try producing a spider het pied with a 50% chance het pied male and then eventually back to a 25% chance het pied female just to see if it can be done on the cheap using indicators to beat the odds. Of course the rub is having to buy and raise up a spider female.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

So have all the pastel het pieds looked as wicked as the one that Graziani posted in the last page of his 2005 gallery?

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No ... Definitely not.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I’m actually much more excited about the spider pied. If spider female prices get low enough pick up a female spider to breed to your het pied male.

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He asked about pastel pieds right? So because you're more exicted about the spider pied, the poster should "pick up" a female spider intead of doing what he truely wants to do? Are you serious?

Why wouldn't YOU pick up a het pied male and a spider female and work the project that YOU are excited about for yourself?

Makes more sense to me at least? ;)

-adam

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He asked about pastel pieds right? So because you're more exicted about the spider pied, the poster should "pick up" a female spider intead of doing what he truely wants to do? Are you serious?

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Very serious. With only the 1 in 8 chance of each egg from pastel X het pied being a male pastel het pied if they can afford more than one female to create more than one clutch they increase the chance of beating the odds. Some people seem to dislike the look of the pied spider but my recommendation of considering getting one pastel female AND one spider female if they can afford it gives some diversity in production potential IF they like the spider pastel as well. Of course in the end they will do what they truly want to. Maybe the smartest thing is to buy a couple het pied females that will be valuable for years to come and a single pastel male next year now that you have explained how the original project can be accomplished.

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Why wouldn't YOU pick up a het pied male and a spider female and work the project that YOU are excited about for yourself?

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Because I believe I already have a couple het pied males including a 25% chance with good indicator markings I got for free. Since I have confidence in the marker I don't feel the need to spend even the modest asking price for a 100% het pied male when I believe I already have a het. I also suspect that even this year's price will still be inflated over real market value for spider females. Still I'll keep an eye out for a good deal on one, maybe a spinner since I believe it's inherent to the morph and not something that can be selectively bred out. Got to keep costs down since Jimmy will eventually set the price for all morphs.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I’m actually much more excited about the spider pied.

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Like this? More pictures on RDR.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Maybe the smartest thing is to buy a couple het pied females that will be valuable for years to come and a single pastel male next year now that you have explained how the original project can be accomplished.

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And maybe the politest thing to do would be to support herplover92's original plans and put that smart brain of yours to work helping with HIS plan instead of spouting off your own personal diatribe on what YOU like, what mutations YOU think he should be working with, and YOUR market agenda.

What's wrong with a kid with a pair of het pieds, a pastel male, and a dream of making pastel pieds? All he asked for was advice for how to best achieve his dream, not your critique of what he should have done according to you.

Just because you are excited about the spider pied doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

herplover92, ROCK ON with your pastel pied project ... Pastel Pieds are an AWESOME combo! ... don't let anyone or anything stand in the way of you achieving your dream!! :rockon:

-adam

Hey Randy, can you post some pictures of some of the morphs you own?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Hey Randy, can you post some pictures of some of the morphs you own?

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Did you check the site link in his signature?

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

Did you check the site link in his signature?

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Nope forgot about that - thanks!!!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Nope forgot about that - thanks!!!

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Nearly overlooked myself.

Not a drop of :firstcup: yet so I am almost stumbling blind :(

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

Nearly overlooked myself.

Not a drop of :coffee: yet so I am almost stumbling blind :(

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I hear you! I've just finished my first cup - off to fix the second. I get to work at 6 in the morning - was never a coffee drinker before then! LOL :hijackd:

I did click Randy's sig link and I'm still trying to figure out what in heck a "possible possible" is (I must need way more :coffeemac maybe?)

Yeah, I didn't any doms or co-doms and a lot of possible possible hets too. :confuzd:

I don't know why I thought he had visible morphs - he posts a lot on genetics, I just figured he owned and produced some himself too. Ah well!!!! LOL

What's with all the hate towards Randy???



Are conversations and suggestions frowned upon here?

Seems like some of the regulars here need to chill a bit...

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Originally Posted by sho220

What's with all the hate towards Randy???

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I didn't show hate - I asked if he had any pictures of his morphs, I wasn't aware he didn't have any. Sorry for asking!

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I didn't show hate - I asked if he had any pictures of his morphs, I wasn't aware he didn't have any. Sorry for asking!

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Sorry...I wasn't refering to you...more to Adam who seems to think Randy is trying to crush the poor guys dreams because he offered an opinion and some suggestions...

This all seems pretty irrelevant since the original poster hasn't even chimed in after his original post...

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Originally Posted by sho220

Sorry...I wasn't refering to you...more to Adam who seems to think Randy is trying to crush the poor guys dreams because he offered an opinion and some suggestions...

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Well, if you are referring to me, then call me out on it ... no need to hide behind words like "some of the regulars" ... use my name, I'm not shy ... say what you mean and mean what you say.

I have no hate towards Randy at all ... Here's my problem with his posts on this thread ... Samuel posted a question about a project he is working with and Randy responded more or less along the lines of "don't do that! do this because I like it". To me, that's no different than someone asking how to properly feed live prey and someone else coming in and saying "don't feed live, feed frozen because it's better". Sharing opinions is nice, but how about helping Samuel first and then giving your opinion. If you can’t help, how about starting your own thread to share your opinion on.

Had Samuel asked which would be the best project or what project people thought he should invest in, I would understand ... but he didn't ... he asked a specific question about a project he feels passionate about ... Samuel is no dummy ... he's aware of spider pieds, bumble bees, and all of the other morphs out there ... at this point he wants to work towards pastel pieds ... wouldn't the polite and proper thing to do be to support his decision and respond with a little bit of help with his question? Randy is extremely intelligent when it comes to genetics and has mastered the ability of producing possible possible might be possible hets which would be very helpful in Samuels project given the animals he is working with ... instead of offering any kind of help, Randy used the thread as an opportunity to post about his favorite combos and his views on the market. How does that help with Samuels original question?

Look, I'm the last person that should ever complain about going off topic on a thread, BUT at least I make sure to help the person that started the thread at some point. Randy never really helps anyone around here ... 3 years and 250+ posts and not one piece of husbandry advice, not one "nice picture" post, not one "Well Samuel, in order to get pastel pieds with those animals, I would ..." .... Just post after post of Randys views on genetics, problems with the ball python market, and digs at so called "outrageous" prices. The man has been keeping and breeding snakes since before many on this forum were born … all that knowledge and all he has to offer is "screw pastel pieds, go get a spider and make spider pieds because I like them." .... Nice.

-adam

haha...fair enough Adam! And I did call you out on the post directly above yours :)


Didn't mean to cause a stink, just didn't seem that what he posted was all that offensive. I guess if he has a history of being a useless tool, than flame away :salute:

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Originally Posted by sho220

haha...fair enough Adam! And I did call you out on the post directly above yours :)

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Next time don't wait so long to show the love ... I ain't skierd!! :carouse: :pinkele: :gj:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Next time don't wait so long to show the love ... I ain't skierd!! :carouse: :pinkele: :gj:

-adam

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Rock On! :headbang:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Next time don't wait so long to show the love ... I ain't skierd!! :carouse: :pinkele: :gj:

-adam

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Hey Adam, yer a cloaca. /nod ;) :P

Ya know...one thing I've always loved about BP.net is how "friendly" we are. How accepting we are of other people's views and opinions. And because of that, it has become an art-form to attack someone without flaming or disobeying our TOS/Rules. To do so in as "friendly" and "accepting" manner as possible. But people...an attack is an attack. You can hide it behind sacharine-sweet requests for "proof" or "surprise" that you didn't know what you thought you knew about somebody....or you can hide it behind the firewall of "calling it like it is".....but I guarantee you that not a single person reading this thread will take the posts in it for anything other than what they are. Blatant attacks on a specific individual who happens to be unpopular with some. And this is not the first thread or the first individual this has happened with.


There's not a single person posting in this thread that I don't like very much...I have a great deal of respect for you all. And frankly, I'm extremely disappointed in some.

Adam, you said it yourself...that Samuel is no dummy. He got great advice from a number of sources, you included. So what if someone else wants to give a different set of advice? Sam is perfectly capable of reading that post and taking from it whatever he wants. He doesn't need you to fire up the flame-thrower to defend him.

These kinds of threads are extremely difficult because, as I said before, there are no specific infractions of the TOS/Rules of this site. But that doesn't mean the behavior exhibited here is condoned. There is no specific action to take against a thread like this, but Admin must speak up and let it be known publicly that we do not appreciate nor respect these kinds of attacks on another member of our forum.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Hey Adam, yer a cloaca. /nod ;) :P

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Maybe so, but I you know ya like it. ;) :P :sweeet:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Maybe so, but I you know ya like it. ;) :P :sweeet:

-adam

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Especially when you say it like that!

*hands Adam another cuppa*

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Originally Posted by JLC

There is no specific action to take against a thread like this, but Admin must speak up and let it be known publicly that we do not appreciate nor respect these kinds of attacks on another member of our forum.

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Thank you for making things clear for me Judy.

-adam

Thanks Adam.

Thanks to all of you for showing me different ways of producing my own dream morph.
im only 14 years old, so all i have is time, lol!
i will get a pair of 100% hets for pied as a middleschool graduation present from my dad(he lives in Dominican Rep. and i live in miami, so it is very special to me) he doesnt know much about BPs, but his favorite morph is Pied, and my favorite base morph is Pied( i remember when pieds went for 10-12ks, i always dreamed of a pied).

I will turn 15 on january 13, so i will get a pastel male as a birthday present( i love pastels).
So i came accross the pastel pied, and i said i need to make my own pastel pied.
I dont care if i am 25, 30, or 50 years old when i make it, but im gonna make it.
I still dont know how to post pics on BP.net, but i promise you, when i get my morphs il post some pics.
Thank you people from BP.net for being there for me when not even my own family was there for me.
Samuel.

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Originally Posted by herplover92

Thank you people from BP.net for being there for me when not even my own family was there for me.

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ROCK ON Samuel!

-adam

Samuel, that's AWEsome that your parents will support your passion in such a fashion! I'll be greatly looking forward to seeing pics of all your new babies when you get them!

That is great Samuel ... Pastel Pieds are a goal of mine also. You have the right attitude and keep us posted !!! We will be waiting for those pics :) .


Neil

My parents think i already have too much snakes but i push them till they get mad or buy me a snake, lol.

right now I have 2 normal females and a black back female.
I am workin in my uncles advertising company right now, so im saving money to get a rack.
then like around August ill get my pair of hets.
then ill get my pastel in january.
Samuel.

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Sharing opinions is nice, but how about helping Samuel first and then giving your opinion. If you can’t help, how about starting your own thread to share your opinion on.

Had Samuel asked which would be the best project or what project people thought he should invest in, I would understand ... but he didn't ... he asked a specific question about a project he feels passionate about ... Samuel is no dummy ... he's aware of spider pieds, bumble bees, and all of the other morphs out there ... at this point he wants to work towards pastel pieds ... wouldn't the polite and proper thing to do be to support his decision and respond with a little bit of help with his question? Randy is extremely intelligent when it comes to genetics and has mastered the ability of producing possible possible might be possible hets which would be very helpful in Samuels project given the animals he is working with ... instead of offering any kind of help, Randy used the thread as an opportunity to post about his favorite combos and his views on the market. How does that help with Samuels original question?

Look, I'm the last person that should ever complain about going off topic on a thread, BUT at least I make sure to help the person that started the thread at some point. Randy never really helps anyone around here ... 3 years and 250+ posts and not one piece of husbandry advice, not one "nice picture" post, not one "Well Samuel, in order to get pastel pieds with those animals, I would ..."

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I generally only post when I can think of something to contribute. I only read the morph and breeding sections and when I do read a husbandry thread by accident I’ve not seen much opportunity where I can improve on what others are posting already.

Adam did a good job of describing one way to produce a pastel pied. I first spent a whole paragraph explaining another (buying a pastel female rather than the pastel male planed) offering the only thing I could come up to add to that project, that with Adam’s plan it would be a waste not to produce pieds with the valuable het pied female as soon as possible. I did this FIRST before mentioning the spider option and I believe it was an offer of some kind of help on the question asked so I don’t see how you can claim otherwise on either account.

Yes the spider pied was off subject. Sorry for being excited about a new project that someone who didn’t know how to produce a pastel pied might not know how easy it would be to produce. Not saying co-dom/dom + recessive combos are trivial but they are more in reach for the entry level herper than a blind 1 in 16 double recessive project both due to the cheaper co-dom/dom side and the fact that you can pick out the hets for that side. Add in piebald perhaps having co-dom tendencies and there are shortcut possibilities that could put either the pastel pied or the spider pied project in reach for many.

I generally don’t spend the time to read nice picture posts so don’t see where it’s polite much less required to waste other’s time making them.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I generally don’t spend the time to read nice picture posts so don’t see where it’s polite much less required to waste other’s time making them.

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Everybody loves PIE!!!! er...I mean pictures...come on Randy...humor us with a couple pics :)