Nature VS Nurture

Just curious as to people's opinions on this. I've been thinking about my future breeding plans, and as color morphs aren't really an option with VBBs I'd love to have an ultimate goal of specializing in more docile snakes.

I know a lot of dog breeds have been bred especially with temperment in mind. Can that be possible with snakes too? I'm wondering if when I start really looking into increasing my breeding stock by acquisition or holding back hatchlings and I specifically breed only the tamest ones like Ma-tsu, would the offspring be more likely to be docile too? Or do you think that's purely based on how often they're handled and husbandry techniques?

This might be a little off topic, but is there any signs that Mat-su id gravid?

I believe it is possible, yes Sheree. It has been done not only with dogs, but with rats, bunnies, as you most likely know.. hehe mice, and other pet rodents. Also true with birds, I don't see it being that much different with snakes. Yes, each species does tend to have a temperament that is common to the species, but there are exceptions, and I can see animals with a lower prey drive/defense instinct being bred to make more docile animals.

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Originally Posted by gmmuscle91

This might be a little off topic, but is there any signs that Mat-su id gravid?

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I think Sheree said in another thread that her vet had felt 9 eggs in Ma-tsu...=)

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Originally Posted by cassandra

I think Sheree said in another thread that her vet had felt 9 eggs in Ma-tsu...=)

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Yes I know but she said they could be reabsorbed if they weren't fertile. I was just wondering.

She's ovulating, but not sure yet if she's gravid! We're waiting to see if she lays or reabsorbs those 9 eggs since it's sort of an "unplanned pregnancy" that we happen to be ready for. ;) Next season we're going to be really making an effort and putting our pair together. If she is gravid, it happened before we had a chance to seperate them out! She shed just recently, so we've got the lay box and everything ready. Incubator arrived yesterday, so we're ready just in case!

And that's what I was thinking, Shelby! I mean, Ma-tsu eats like a piggie but gently... I've never seen her strike once, she tends to just take the rat out of the tongs all lady-like and start swallowing. And she's unbelievably tame. So lower defense/drive like you said with a healthy appitite like Ma-tsu would be my goal. I'd love to focus on that trait in the future. Mellow docile good eaters. :) VBBs have a rep for being nervous, but I'd love to have a hand in changing that reputation through careful breeding.

I certainly think it's worth a try. Either way, you're breeding beautiful babies!

Sheree, thats so exciting. good luck, if not this year, next year!

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Originally Posted by JLC

I certainly think it's worth a try. Either way, you're breeding beautiful babies!

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That's a given, they're called beauties for a reason! :wuv:;)

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Originally Posted by mr~python

Sheree, thats so exciting. good luck, if not this year, next year!

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Thanks! Our fingers and all our toes are crossed, we want pippies! :D

Can I be put on the waiting list for one of those babies? :) I've been looking at your pics and the Beauties are really starting to grow on me!

Take a number! :preph: ;) :D


(okay, it's a preparation-h smiley, but pretend it's a number ticket.../nod)

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Take a number! :preph: ;) :D


(okay, it's a preparation-h smiley, but pretend it's a number ticket.../nod)

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:8: :rofl: That's great! I do believe that's the first time I've ever seen that "smiley" used! I like it better as a number ticket! :P

I really need an official list for my BP.net peeps who want blue beauty babies! Actually, how about I make my e-mail the official waiting list, sheree_rehema@bluegorgon.com :) When I get neonates for sure, they've eaten a couple of times, and they're sexed it'll officially be first come first serve. I'm still waiting to hear back from the FedEx rep to get officially certified to ship, I may need to call him :P

This thread prolly ought to be moved to colubrids, I meant it to be a general breeding nature vs nurture question, but Ma-tsu's mojo has taken it over, lol!

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Originally Posted by MedusasOwl

This thread prolly ought to be moved to colubrids, I meant it to be a general breeding nature vs nurture question, but Ma-tsu's mojo has taken it over, lol!

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Done. ;)

i honestly believe that when you take any living creature and choose it specifically for breeding depending on it's tempermant... that it can not be a negative. it doesn't guarantee a more gentle loving kind (add whatever descriptive word you want here LOL) critter... but i definitely feel it gives you a better chance of having a more docile baby.

you can allsow breed other caind of beuty snakes the cave Beauties are cool and the taiwan Beauties are just wow

Oh yeah I looove cave dwelling rat snakes. Such an unusual looking snake.

If Sheree doesn't want to breed those, I know I will be sometime! ;)

I plan to focus on blue beauties but I admit... Elaphe t. ridleyi and Elaphe radiata are both *awfully* tempting... although I think I'd be hard pressed to find docile specimens of the latter!

I saw a nature program once on dogs that explained just that.....how over the hundreds of years how people selectively bred wolves to make the beginnings of the domestic dog, and how some behavioral traits also carried with them physical traits as well. For instance, a lady did an experiment with foxes (silver foxes I think) where she selected only the passive, more "friendly" puppies from the litters and continued to breed them...after only six generations, the foxes were indeed much more friendly than there "wilder" older grandparents, but they started to show very intersting physical differences....they had curly tails, and patches of white that the other foxes did not have. Interesting!!!