What is theses?

Hello people! Ok well yesterday I was in a chat room with Kevin McCurley and Ralph Davis, on Kingsnake:D . There they ask Kevin that what is the mistery snake in the back of the book the complete ball python. I have theses teaory(and i can bet my Balls) that it is a hybrid between a woma python x a ball python. Why?

1.He dont have the heat pits
2.The colors of the ead and the bands are from a woma python
2 The head shape is from a ball and the line under the eye
Heres a link to the pic of the mistery snake, I have it scan from my book
http://i5.tinypic.com/15rb8t4.jpg
so what is every one opinon on theses snake?

muhahahahahaha!!! :twisted:

SATAN strikes again! :devilish:

-adam

Ugly and unethical....

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

muhahahahahaha!!! :twisted:

SATAN strikes again! :devilish:

-adam

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Conda????? something, You never know with Kevin...lol
Rusty

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Ugly and unethical....

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Ugly? I will have to disagree with that. I think it's quite stunning. As for the unethical ... ????? Why? Do you even know what it is? Please try and show a bit more tolerance or at least a bit more decorum. :sigh2:

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Ugly and unethical....

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There are some people that would say the same about the fact that all of us keep animals in our homes as pets. What would you say to them?

-adam

Ethics:

1. A set of principles of right conduct.
2. A theory or a system of moral values

It all depends on who's writing the rulebook...not sure if its fair to call it unethical in the least.....I'm not really "into" hybrids or anything else like that, but who am I to judge someone like kevin whose very livelihood depends upon his reputation in the industry and the eye of the public.

-Brad

Its an oppinion and if I express my oppinions about hybrids, I will get more negative rep points. Just my oppinion on it

So you are against all hybrids or is it just the snake variety you find distasteful?

As for the rep points.... It's not your opinions that will get you in trouble, but the manner in which you present it.

Pork Chops maybe you haven't figured it out but it's not that you express your opinions (about hybrids, live feeding, whatever) but it's how you are expressing them. Folks around here are always willing to enter into a lively debate or learn about some else's opinions but clearly you don't have opinions...you have cut in stone beliefs that you are expressing in ways that just plain tick people off. Only you can choose the words you type.

Have your beliefs but if you wish your beliefs honored, at least find the words to express them in ways that aren't clearly meant to offend and cause drama. Also respect others if you want that respect back. You don't get what you don't give.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

So you are against all hybrids or is it just the snake variety you find distasteful?

As for the rep points.... It's not your opinions that will get you in trouble, but the manner in which you present it.

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I know people will get mad at this but I feel I have the right to say it.
Making hybrids is only taking chances that the babies will turn out healthy. Reptiles have been around for a very long time and have came up with adaptions to live where they do. Making hybrids basically forces the snakes to go through the changes that they wouldn't need to do if people would have just left it how its supposed to be. Not even in the next thousand years will africa and australia bump together and these 2 species will colide in range. Not happening any time soon so why should we let them do what isn't natural. Ever wonder why many hybrids are infertile? Probably because its not meant to happen.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

I know people will get mad at this but I feel I have the right to say it.
Making hybrids is only taking chances that the babies will turn out healthy. Reptiles have been around for a very long time and have came up with adaptions to live where they do. Making hybrids basically forces the snakes to go through the changes that they wouldn't need to do if people would have just left it how its supposed to be. Not even in the next thousand years will africa and australia bump together and these 2 species will colide in range. Not happening any time soon so why should we let them do what isn't natural. Ever wonder why many hybrids are infertile? Probably because its not meant to happen.

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By no means are you making me mad, but I do highly disagree with you. Hybrids happen all the time in nature. For instance the polar/grizzly hybrid just recently discovered. This country was help built by another hybird, the mule. If not for mules, the canals would not have been as successful. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean that I take everything you say as an attack. If you believe that way, find a way to intelligently articulate it. Give some basis for your opinion, and be prepared for others to disagree with you. It's the basis of debate. You'll never get anyone to listen if you are constantly arguementative or hostile. Not everyone is going to agree with you, and you should expect that.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Not happening any time soon so why should we let them do what isn't natural.

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So the 1.1 rtbs listed in your profile that are living in a tank, or plastic container, or other type of enclosure are "natural"?

-adam

Pork Chops, nature didn't intend for your snakes to live in Rubbermaid or glass enclosures either dear. Some would call you and me unethical and cruel because we choose to keep what is a creature meant for the wild, in our livingrooms.

The fact is humans affect nature every second we exist in nature - we effect it more than another other living creature. You cannot pick and choose what affect is "ethical" across the board! Whether or not a hybrid is "ethical" isn't for you or anyone to say as your ethics and mine and Kevin's are all our own and based on what we believe and know of our world, snake breeding, etc.

I personally don't care for the Derma Ball for instance (and it's not a hybrid). It makes me sad for some reason. Do I think I have to right to tell someone they should not own or reproduce it? Of course not! I can only choose not to own one because for me it's not appealing.

The only ethics I see in hybrids or ANY breeding is that you breed from healthy stock, you know your snakes and the genetics involved, you hatch healthy snakes and represent them properly in all ways.

ok people back to the snake! lol

basuca, i think you're right, a woma x ball. thats what it looks like to me.

Pork Chops, i have no problem that you dont like hybrids its just the way you say you dont but im not taking any rep. points because i know you must feel strongly about this and that's why you express it strongly.

personally i think hybrids are pretty cool, but i also dont like the idea of some. like animals that are hybridized but can no longer be imported/exported and look almost the same to where you cant tell if its a hybrid or what, such as ackies.

ackies can no longer be exported/imported from australia but people sometimes hybridize them. the thing i dont like about that is now people lose track of what kinda of ackie it is because they look so similar and they dont know what they have. this inturn creates 'dirty' bloodlines. im not completely against it, i just dont like it. i would be completely for hybrids all the way if people would take better care of tracking their animals so animals like ackies dont get all mixed up.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

So the 1.1 rtbs listed in your profile that are living in a tank, or plastic container, or other type of enclosure are "natural"?

-adam

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Schooled! Class is over...

Aren't hybrids those cars that run on gasoline and battery power? I'm really confused? Do they have those in Africa and Australia?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Class is over...

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Does that mean I can get out of the corner and take the funny hat off? :D

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Does that mean I can get out of the corner and take the funny hat off? :D

-adam

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School is out..You can go take the schoolgirl uniform off...

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Originally Posted by jglass38

School is out..You can go take the schoolgirl uniform off...

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Jamie, this is Adam posting bro ........... not cue. :groinkick

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Jamie, this is Adam posting bro ........... not cue. :groinkick

-adam

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What happens in Cue's basement, stays in Cue's basement.

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Originally Posted by cassandra

What happens in Cue's basement, stays in Cue's basement.

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Until it finds a way to escape and is found by the police running down the street naked, handcuffed, covered in lotion, and screaming. :carrot:

-adam

you just always have one hidden in the bottom of the bag somewhere, dont you?

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

you just always have one hidden in the bottom of the bag somewhere, dont you?

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You have NO idea! :P

-adam

It puts the lotion on it's skin... - Cue

AAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAH, "wheres my supplies?"

Trying really hard to ignore Jamie and Adam:D





DETAILS!!!!!

1. How many are there?
2. How long has this been in the works?
3. What was the hatch rate?
4. What other crosses are out there?

I know NERD did the carpet x woma but did not know about this one.

has anyone seen the carpocondro too? now those are some SWEET snakes.

Those are SWEET.


The pictures on the web do NOTHING for what they look like in real life.

I also like the bateaters.

It looks like the irian jaya x woma to me. It's pretty whatever it is.

the snake is a secret, Kevin dint what to say what it was, he only say that it was gonna be revealed wen he updated the website, so we are only gessing what it is (well Im)

Shelby your right I dint see a iran jara X wona untill know and it does look like that....
and for does who dont know what a Iran Java x Woma looks like (like me just a minut ago) heres a link: http://i3.tinypic.com/15s6354.jpg

Or woma angolan? it has patterning like angolan pythons.

Is that the adult version of their carpet x woma?


Then why would they have it in the ball python book?

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Is that the adult version of their carpet x woma?


Then why would they have it in the ball python book?

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That is what I think. It have to be somthing with an angola or with a ball python to be in the camplete BALL PYTHON

Well, it looks nothing like a ball python to me.. but I do see angolan in there.. in the patterning and color.

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Trying really hard to ignore Jamie and Adam:D

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"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Ghandi

"Sweets, you couldn't ignore me if you tried." -- Breakfast Club

"You can't stop them, you can only hope to contain them!" -- Sportscenter - Dan Patrick

Neat snake. The drama was a fun read too. lol

I just keep looking at that pic, and I am fascinated by it. It looks like nothing I have ever seen before; I am dyin' to know what made it up... no heat pits.

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

... no heat pits.

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Oh it has heat pits (the snake in the back of the book). They're small, but they're there. ;) The Comas on the other hand (IJ Carpet x Woma), don't have heat pits.

K~

I vote that it's an angolan X ball hybrid.

As for the drama.. I remember having a debate where someone said "G_d didn't intend for those two sepecies to mate"... I asked "How do you know?" only to be informed that the two source species lived too far apart to make it "practical". I subscribe to the theory that if the two snakes want to "get it on" then let it happen. The best dogs are "mutts" right?

I've seen the Nerd Carpet X Chondro hybrid, it's beautiful. I remember asking one of the guys working the Nerd booth at NARBC last year if the goal was to make "The meanest snake ever" - he just laughed.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

why should we let them do what isn't natural.

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Actually the concept that hybrids don't occur in "nature" is a misconception. There have been many studies done on the topic and the research shows that many of them occur in the wild. All you have to do is look at the latest discovery; the Grizzly/Polar bear cross to believe that.

Also, hybrids are thought to be important for many species as an evolutionary tool. What this means is that off-spring produced by two species may actually turn out to be more robust than either parent. This actually makes sense in the evolutionary scheme of things when two strong traits come together from two entirely different species to make a stronger one. There is plenty of inteligent speculation by scientists that hybrids actually become a sperate species after many genrations. Basically what they are saying is that life is a "genetic continum" rather than a state of "self-contained species."

Sure there will be many instances when a weaker species is produced, which will have complications like short life spans or the incapacity to breed. The latter is an anamoly, because the female Mule is reported to be fertile when the sire is a Donkey. The bottom line is that some hybrids will eventually disappear due to their inability to adapt to their surroundings and those that do succeed will continue the process. Darwins theory at its best if you ask me.

You said that continents will never meet and hence those species should never have been made in the first place. I must disagree. The link between the two is us, human beings. Yes, we too are a part of nature as much as we would like to believe that we are not and I do not believe that we are messing with "Mother nature" or playing "God." Hence, through our actions, we are propagating new DNA into the genetic spectrum and continuing natures course.

I have been neutral on the subject for a long time now, and I have finally made up my mind that we do need responsible hybridization for the future. Considering the rate at which forests are being destroyed, lands taken for development, ecosystems ravaged and animals hunted to extinction, I think that hybrids and other closely protected animals may be the only testament to the existence of species other than Human beings.

Natural occuring hybrids are a whole seperate thing. They are naturally occuring and we don't force them to share a cage until they breed. I just think that if there ranges won't over lap in the wild that they shouldn't be together in captivity either. Again, this is my oppinion and my oppinion only. I can't change the way other people look at hybrids and visa versa.

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Originally Posted by Pork Chops N' Corn Bread

Again, this is my oppinion and my oppinion only. I can't change the way other people look at hybrids and visa versa.

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Exactly! I'll drink to that mate :carouse: . If more people agree to disagree over hot button issues instead of ripping arms off and beating each other over the heads with it, it would be a much peaceful world! :colbert2:

OK WOW it have heat pits!! ok know I confused

OK...not to go totally OT again, but:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Until it finds a way to escape and is found by the police running down the street naked, handcuffed, covered in lotion, and screaming. :carrot:

-adam

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You do know I lurve you, right??? :carouse: And that in each of our respective next lives I'm going find a way to harness your mind & use it for good...and evil...of my own accord???

Same thing we do every night...try to take over the WORLD! ;)


xoxoxox

K~

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Originally Posted by KLG

Oh it has heat pits (the snake in the back of the book). They're small, but they're there. ;) The Comas on the other hand (IJ Carpet x Woma), don't have heat pits. K~

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Now that's just not fair.:frustrate

I had to read Jamies posts :hijackd: I think that deserves the answer about what this is.:D


So.....what is it?:please: :confuzd: :please:

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Originally Posted by SPJ

Now that's just not fair.:frustrate

I had to read Jamies posts :hijackd: I think that deserves the answer about what this is.:D


So.....what is it?:please: :confuzd: :please:

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Im with you men:tricho:

LOL you guys...talk to Kev. That one is all his. ;)

know I have to be patient:firstcup: