New and seeking advice

Hi everyone.
I bought my daughter a 6 week old BP for her bday about 3 weeks ago. It looked healthy when we brought it home, but it hasn't eaten a thing yet. Despite having fresh water at all times, it has gotten dehydrated and had what I think was a prolapsed cloaca. I took it to the vet today, and he fixed that and said the snake is pretty skinny, at 48 grams. He also said he doesn't like the coloration on it's underside for some reason, and prescribed 2 weeks of antibiotics. I'm a little nervous about giving the snake shots every day, but I'm sure I'll manage that somehow.
The thing that really bothers me is that the vet gave me a tube and syringe and said I need to tube feed this snake twice a week until it will eat. I've been reading a LOT on the net since getting the snake, and most people seem to be strongly against this.
So my question is, what do you all think? Is the snake underweight enough to warrent tube feeding at this point, or should I keep trying mice? I've tried f/t fuzzies, live pinkies, live fuzzies, it doesn't want anything. It will kill the live ones but then won't eat them.
Sorry for writing a book on this, haha! If you made it this far, please, I welcome all advice.

Most often a non feeding bp's refusal for food can be traced back to insufficient heating or internal parasites. Did your vet perform a fecal float? (That would test for internal parasites) Can you describe your setup?

Yeah, he said no parasites.
I'm pretty sure that insufficient heat was the main problem. Since I've been reading this forum, I've made some changes to the setup so that the temps are now good. But I just made those changes yesterday, so I figure it will take the snake a while to get settled in again enough to eat. Plus now I'm going to have to give it a shot every day for 2 weeks, so it may take longer than that!

Oh sorry, forgot to describe the setup.
It's a 10 gallon glass tank with a screen top. Has a heating pad on bottom and a heat lamp on top. 2 hides, one on warm side, one on cool, water bowl, newspaper on bottom of tank, and a climbing tree. I know now he doesn't need the tree, but he does seem to like it. May have been to get closer to the heat lamp tho, as before we had a reptile sand as substrate, so I don't think much heat was coming up from the pad.
I also have not been misting the tank, I will start that today. I just need to go buy a misting bottle here in a bit. I really want to switch to a plastic tub, after reading all the good things about them, here. I may do that after all this business with the 2 weeks of shots. I think the poor little thing must be stressed out at this point, more changes may not be good!

What size enclosure do you have? The larger the cage the more likely you'll encounter problems. You want small tight hides, at least two of them. You don't want any 'open' area.

It sounds like the temps may have been your big problem, so hopefully you'll have a feeding bp soon. :gj:

Also make sure you are measuring your temps with a digital thermometer. Those dials and strips are notoriously inaccurate. :D

Sorry, I'm a bit tired and frazzled so my thoughts aren't very organzied. :oops:

Yeah, I will pick up a good thermometer today as well, all I have is a plastic strip.
His hides are small and tight, but they don't match. I'm thinking of getting 2 that do match as well.
Here is a pic of the setup when we first got him. I'm sure you can see the problems! It looks nothing like that now, I'll get some new pics when I get the new hides:
http://sarah.digeratihost.com/images/treyhome.jpg

And here is a pic of the problem he had today. I think it was a prolapsed cloaca, but the vet didn't say for sure. Also, sorry it's blurry, this was done with my cell phone:

http://sarah.digeratihost.com/images/cloaca.jpg

Ow...poor little guy! I'm glad you got that fixed. It's obvious you really care and are working hard to provide a good home for him.


I don't think I would resort to a feeding tube, although I must say I am no vet or anything. If I were in your shoes, I would finish the medicine and then give him a full week of not being messed with at all...a chance to finally settle into his new home without the trauma of vet visits and treatments. Then offer a small, live prey...something too young to risk injury so you can "leave them alone together" for awhile and not worry about it.

And I think, if I were going to make the switch to a plastic tub (SO much easier to maintain temps and humidity in!)...I would probably do it right near the end of his round of treatments...that way he doesn't associate the new tub with getting shots every day...and he will have that full week in it as his new acclimation period, which he would probably need whether he got a new home or not.

At 48 grams recovering from a probable prolapse and under going daily shots of anti-biotics for 2 weeks I would follow the vets instructions to the letter. If he/she advised you to tube feed the animal it is likely because your snake may be too weak to even eat on it's own at this time. Signs that can't be assessed over the internet such as a wobbling head, loose skin along he lower 1/3 of the body that is starting to separate from the muscle, etc. are things that a vet looks for in order to diagnose dangerously severe malnutrition which often requires tube feeding for extended periods of time.

If your snake is severely malnourished, you will likely have to tube feed until the animal is healthy enough to be able to try feeding on it's own.

Warnings on the internet to not tube feed should only be directed at animals that "should be" healthy enough to be able to eat on their own ... my fear is that your vet likely assessed that this animal is not.

Keep in constant contact with your vet and good luck, you've got a bumpy road ahead.

-adam

Thank you, Adam. I was hoping you would see this one and chime in. Sarah, I would listen to Adam's advice on this way before my own.

Thanks, guys! That is exactly what I was wanting to know. The vet did spend a lot of time checking out the snake's skin, so I'm glad to know that I found a good vet.

awww...that poor lil guy!:(.....here's to a speedy recovery and weight gain, and evntually eating on his own...best of luck to you and your lil guy.

Thanks for the well wishes :)
I definitely plan on taking good care of this little critter. I've always thought snakes are cute, but was never really interested in having one. Then the minute we got this one home, I just fell in love. I can't believe we've never had one before, now. Seems crazy not to!

I hope he comes around, good luck.

Neil

Good luck hang in there , I'd listen to Adam the vet know's what he's doing.I also had a small girl that was real skinny then she started eating and went from 34grams to 75 in one month.Her skin was also a little loose , I got her on mouse fuzzy's and now she's on rat pink's.

That gives me a lot of hope!
I did tube feed him today, and that actually went really well. Giving the antibiotic shot was traumatic for us both, though.

Congrats on the forward progress. Keep up the good work, and I'm sure your liitle buddy will turn around.

I hope you're right, Tim!
I feel like I caught some kind of fever or something. Can't get enough of reading the forums and looking at snakes now.

Glad to hear you were able to get through your feeding and shot! Good job. :gj: Keep us updated.

You're hooked. ;) Didn't you read the warning label that comes on all bps? They are addictive!! :D

Congrats on the successful tube feeding; glad to see that went well :)
I have a few suggestions on your setup, though you may just want to wait until treatment has stopped to change things too drastically. I would go with a substrate such as newspaper or blank paper towels, just so that you can be sure your snake doesn't have mites or ticks. I had one snake who seemed mite-free, then in a few months.. mites. These substrates will give the potential buggers no place to hide, so you acn't miss them. Also, sand can possibly get caught in the snake's heat pits in the face which is not a good thing; and I would dare to say it may contribute to his dehydration, as it is a drying agent.
I am glad you're here to get knowledge:) Wecome to the forum, by the way; this is the most helpful place (in my humble opinion) on the Net.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

Didn't you read the warning label that comes on all bps? They are addictive!! :D

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Haha, I must have stuck it in the drawer with the manual on raising kids before reading it, but man, you aren't kidding!

Gineveve,
Yes, since reading here I have changed my setup quite a bit. The sand is gone, replaced with newspaper, I have a different water bowl, and 2 matching hides as of today. The advice here has been excellent, and I have learned that I need to disregard everything the people at the pet store told me. I was here as a guest for a while before signing up, reading every thread I had time for!
I've already talked to my husband about getting more snakes, once we've learned a lot more and gotten this little one off to a great start.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SarahMB

Haha, I must have stuck it in the drawer with the manual on raising kids before reading it, but man, you aren't kidding!

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You got a manual!! :O Well dang! :D If you ever dig it out, find out if children cause brain damage in adults. ;)

I think you already know the answer to that question ;)

Babies eat brain cells!

What question? :imslow: ;) Where am I? :giggle:

I think when I had the kids the doctor put a buzzer in my butt and the kids have the receiver inplanted behind their ears. They can be happily playing or watching TV, whatever...I sit my butt down to use the phone, the computer or read a book....all "H" breaks loose! Somebody's bugging somebody, somebody needs money for school, somebody's flushing a cat down the toilet (I'm joking!)...whatever but it means mom better get up and deal with it FAST!

Of course gawd forbid I actually want an hour long bubble bath....that's just asking for disaster to strike the house! :P

Haha, you all are cracking me up. I can definitely relate!

Hey Sarah, I'm new to this site and have been reading all the threads as I'm getting ready to get a little one too. And these threads turn into a computerized soap opera you have to see what happens next.

So, how is your little guy doing now

Hi Adam,

I know what you mean, I'm trying to keep up with everyone's snake stories as well.

I'm not sure how Trey is doing, really. I was really worried a couple of days ago, since he wasn't coming out of his hide at all. But now I realize it's because he's been tube fed, and they usually stay hidden when digesting. I fed him again last night, so he's still hiding. There are signs that he's changing to his warm hide sometime in the night, so I feel better about that.

As for his weight, my scales show him at 42g, which would mean that he's lost 3g. But today was the first time I weighed him on my scale, the other weight was from the scale at the vet's office. So I'm going to wait and weigh him again next week, to see if there's just a difference between the scales used, ya know?

Otherwise, I guess he seems about the same. He's not getting weaker or wobbly, or anything like that, so I think that's a good sign!

Thanks for asking :)

Sarah, I know we are all rooting for you and little Trey. As far as the hide things goes though even really healthy, snarfing down prey to beat the band kind of ball pythons are often in their hides a lot. Heck I could walk around right now and I'd be surprised to find even one of mine out and about. It's not dark out yet, it's not feeding night....I might have one or two peep out at me but most will be lazing about in their hides (must be nice to be a captive snake!)

Thanks, Joanna!
Knowing that I have this place to come to for knowledge and advice has really helped set my mind at ease.

Glad we're here Sarah but remember through all this your best friend is your herp vet. We moved recently and one of my only regrets is no longer having the services of Dr. Pam. Even though we've not had a lot of health issues with our collection, it was so good knowing she was a phone call or a fast trip in the car away and she truly loved snakes. Hope we find someone of her calibre here in Toledo.

Well I am hoping the vet I found is a good one, but I have no real way to judge yet, as I don't know much myself. That's why I want to learn as much as I can. This one didn't seem to really 'love' snakes, so maybe I should look around some more.
I wish you luck in finding a good one!

Well as long as your vet is experienced and skilled then you are good to go, the loving snakes thing is a bonus. You could have a vet that loved snakes but wasn't really up on things...it's great if you can find both but I'd go for medical/technical skill in a vet above all else. It's always good to be a knowledgeable owner so you'll know what to watch for, the right stuff to ask your vet, that sort of thing.

This vet does come highly recommended, and the clinic was super busy the day I took Trey in. Of course, I was a walk-in, as it was an urgent situation, so I will definitely keep going to this one unless I develope serious doubts.
You have given me a lot to think about! :)