Investment morphs?

What are considered the best BP investment morphs today?
I know, "breed what you like and want to see in your collection".

But, I just want to know for example: what would you buy if you had $10,000-$12,000 to invest? Also, imagine you already had 10-20 normal females that will be ready next season.

I myself don't like putting all my eggs in one basket, so I would rather look at 2-3-4-5 different morphs. Say a Pied, Spider, Pastels, Ghost and Albino.

I think I'd start with an albino , Then pied which would leave me with about $1,000 dollar's. That's starting with $10,000 , the last thousand I'd try to get a deal on a Hypo(ghost).I already have my pastel if I didn't I would replace the hypo with a pastel.

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Originally Posted by emilio

I think I'd start with an albino , Then pied which would leave me with about $1,000 dollar's. That's starting with $10,000 , the last thousand I'd try to get a deal on a Hypo(ghost).I already have my pastel if I didn't I would replace the hypo with a pastel.

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That is exactly what I am doing except with hets since I don't have $10k to drop on snakes. I purchased a pair of het albinos, then a pair of het piebalds and I'm looking at getting a pair of het yellow ghosts next week. Once I get a few clutches produced and make back some of my money I really want a pair of het clowns also.

Clown's are very cool , I'm also going to take the long route with het male's for pied and albino.But however long it take's I'm going to do it , I'm in the process of saving money to buy my second home.In my case it would be irresponsible to just hurry up and waist to much money.

Also my het's will be purchased in Daytona.

You could probably get a Pied for $4000-$5000 and the Albino around $1500-$1750. If buying both and more from the same source you may be able to negotiate a bit less. Spiders are already at about $2500-$3000 from what I can see.

I'm thinking:
2.0 Albino = $3000
0.6 Het Albino = $3000
2.0 Spider = $5000
2.0 Pastel = $1000
Total = $12,000

Sell just enough of the babies to buy 2.0 Pieds & 0.6 Het Pieds, hold back the rest to work on more Albinos, Spiders, Pastels as well as Supers, Bumble Bees at just about the time your Pieds come of age to add some Pieds as well to your collection. At that point sell off just enough to recover initial investment as well as add a few more different morphs.

Maybe it's all your eggs in one basket thinking but personally I'd go for a Pewter (aka Pewter Pastel) male. I saw that The Snakekeeper has a male on their site for 10K. Now I'm no genetics expert but according Markus Jayne's site this is a morph that can do some serious stuff. Here's the link but it sure impressed me with what it can produce when crossed with normal females or other morphs.

http://www.ballpython.ca/collection/pewter/pewter.html

http://www.ballpython.com/page.php?topic=available

Someone please chime in (hopefully Kara LOL) but isn't one of the Bees like that, a tripe threat type morph that can produce different visible morphs all from the same clutch?

well i spent a little more then that but heres what i bought
0.1 spider 5000
1.0 pastel 1500
1.0 mojave 7500
1.1 het peid 1200
0.6 normals 600?
and one freedom rack 2800
and two jason jungle racks 600
and thats how i spent 20000
but if you want to make you money faster and you have all those females i would buy
1.0 spider 3000
1.0 pastel 800
1.0 mojave 3000
1.1 clown 2500

We've got the females and we can build the racks out of Melamine and save some $$$ there. I'm not focusing on making my money back right away, but looking at 3-5-10yrs. Hence holding back 60-90% of the morph and het offspring in the 1st 3yrs of breeding as future breeders.


I plan on trading/purchasing some along the line to diversify bloodlines as much as possible. I know I want to have a nice colony of Pieds, Albinos, Spiders, Pastels, Super Pastels and Bumble bees as a foundation and go from there.

We've got the females and we can build the racks out of Melamine and save some $$$ there.

well this is a good place to save money and spend on more morphs


I plan on trading/purchasing some along the line to diversify bloodlines as much as possible. I know I want to have a nice colony of Pieds, Albinos, Spiders, Pastels, Super Pastels and Bumble bees as a foundation and go from there.

sounds like me my first few years i too will be tradeing but i'm tradeing to get more morphs abd it you want bees then you have got to invest in spiders and pastels even if you but just one male of each and breed to get the females. thats what i want a bumble bee and thats why i bought a male pastel and female spider that i'm hopping will be breeding this year it might be close as she 900 grams

Where does everyone get like 10 thousand dollars? If I at only 14 with a job had 5 thousand dollar to spend on ball pythons i would be so happy.

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Originally Posted by gncz73

We'
sounds like me my first few years i too will be tradeing but i'm tradeing to get more morphs abd it you want bees then you have got to invest in spiders and pastels even if you but just one male of each and breed to get the females. thats what i want a bumble bee and thats why i bought a male pastel and female spider that i'm hopping will be breeding this year it might be close as she 900 grams

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I plan on having two males of each; Albinos, Pastels and Spiders for starters.
I plan to use 2.0 males per 0.6-0.8 females, if even 4-5 successfully take that's guesstimate 16-20 eggs 1/2 being Spiders and Pastels = 8-10 Spiders and Pastels added for future breedings.

I'm thinking:
2.0 Albino
0.6 Het Albino
2.0 Spider
2.0 Pastel

Same with the Albinos, 2.6 group. Even if 3-4 take, that's 12-16 1/2 being Albinos. That leaves me with 6-8 Albinos and 6-8 more hets for future breedings.

I'll sell a few of each along with the normals to aquier a group of 0.6 Het Pieds and later on 2.0 male Pieds.

This is mainly just thinking out loud of course, I know whole clutches could go bad or countless other negative scenarios when breeding and incubating eggs.

Albinos, I think, will always be popular. Pieds, again... always a crowd pleaser. But, I think you're forgetting hypos in your mix! SO much combo potential!

I would cut down on your doubles of the co-doms, and get more het pairs of other morphs.... Hypos, Pieds, Caramels, Clowns, so many to pick! The advantage is you can breed your 1.3's to the 10 available females next year, and still have 4 females left over to make poss het clutches. Of course, this plan takes more time... but it also makes you more diverse in three years... unless in two years you're planning on selling enough to make up for purchasing a breedable female.... :)

Six in one, half a dozen in the other really, I guess. Time vs Money.... always a large life decision! :)

I echo the comment about the co-doms. Unless you plan on doing 10 females to each morph, I would imagine 1 spider and 1 pastel male would be enough for 10 females?

At least that is my plan. For the extra 3k saved you could pick up a cinny male :)

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Originally Posted by Regal Boids

Where does everyone get like 10 thousand dollars? If I at only 14 with a job had 5 thousand dollar to spend on ball pythons i would be so happy.

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Key is age/full time work/possibly education depending on the job.

I'm doubling up on the male co-doms to make sure I have a support/back up male to get the job done, just in case.

I'm not looking at BP's for a quick buck or an easy turn around, I'm looking to build a nice size inventory in what I want to reproduce in the next 3-6yrs, hence holding back most of my morph babies and females Vs selling them off.

Once established breeding groups, I can sell off the Co-dom babies to assist in purchasing higher end groups of recessives in groups of 2.6 (2 males to 6 hets). Not too mention every year I will buy some more morphs in building up my collection/inventory.

I really don't plan on making any $$$ off BP's for 3-5yrs. My goal is to build a solid healthy breeding groups of 2.6 or 2.10 along with establish some inventory.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Key is age/full time work/possibly education depending on the job.

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Priorities also plays a role in this, where you spend your $$$. We have a mortgage, utilities, expenses, child, etc. But we allocate our income wisely and again age comes to play as well.

Another possitive is we have been breeding Boas and other snakes and that has put some extra cash flow into supporting/maintaining/acquiring more snakes. Our snake sales don't go toward a new car or vacations or anything other than right back into our snakes or toward new additions to our collection.

Another thing is credit, our credit score is very good. We get offers all the time for 0% credit cards for 15-18 months and low 2.99% to 5.99% to maybe 8.99% afterward. As long as you are sure you can pay the balance before the end of the , it's a free loan for 18 months. This is why young people need to protect their credit as if it was gold! This will open many doors and save you a lot of headaches and money as you get older and apply for that new car or house or BEL!

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Originally Posted by ssscales

I'm doubling up on the male co-doms to make sure I have a support/back up male to get the job done, just in case.

I'm not looking at BP's for a quick buck or an easy turn around, I'm looking to build a nice size inventory in what I want to reproduce in the next 3-6yrs, hence holding back most of my morph babies and females Vs selling them off.

Once established breeding groups, I can sell off the Co-dom babies to assist in purchasing higher end groups of recessives in groups of 2.6 (2 males to 6 hets). Not too mention every year I will buy some more morphs in building up my collection/inventory.

I really don't plan on making any $$$ off BP's for 3-5yrs. My goal is to build a solid healthy breeding groups of 2.6 or 2.10 along with establish some inventory.

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I agree that by doubling up on the co-doms you double your chances on getting clutches of that morph, I was just pointing out another option :) I think you have a very solid plan with some good backups in place to guarantee success!

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Originally Posted by ssscales

Priorities also plays a role in this, where you spend your $$$. We have a mortgage, utilities, expenses, child, etc. But we allocate our income wisely and again age comes to play as well.

Another possitive is we have been breeding Boas and other snakes and that has put some extra cash flow into supporting/maintaining/acquiring more snakes. Our snake sales don't go toward a new car or vacations or anything other than right back into our snakes or toward new additions to our collection.

Another thing is credit, our credit score is very good. We get offers all the time for 0% credit cards for 15-18 months and low 2.99% to 5.99% to maybe 8.99% afterward. As long as you are sure you can pay the balance before the end of the , it's a free loan for 18 months. This is why young people need to protect their credit as if it was gold! This will open many doors and save you a lot of headaches and money as you get older and apply for that new car or house or BEL!

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I agree the 0% thing for 12 months is nice, you just have to have backup plans incase things fall through, or go wrong. Putting one 15k snake on a 0% 12 months card may not be the best idea, but 10 breedable females and a few breedable males ready to go in a few months might be better (just depends on situation and ability to pay off)

I would never put $15K on one snake, I'd rather put $5K into three or $3K into five before dropping $15K on one. I don't mind risk, but putting all your eggs into one snake, is just too much risk for my tolerance.

I also agree with you on diversifying a collection and not focusing on 100% 1 or 2 morphs, again putting your eggs in one basket.

I just want to establish quality, healthy, solid breeding groups of what I consider basics and then branch out into others and designer morphs. I'm not thinking about a quick ROI, but as mentioned establish myself first. BP's are still real new to me, but I'm absorbing as much as I can thinking more in 5-6 years Vs next year.

I appreciate all your input which is why I started this thread, I want to see if I'm going in the right direction or need to tweak it a bit. I definitely will diversify with each year, but at the same time I have much to do with boas as well. Most of my focus is still with Boas, but have come to LOVE BP's!

P.S.
I also wouldn't use any Credit card to invest in snakes unless I had the cash to pay it off before the terms are up. The only reason I would consider it, is for a 0% loan for 15 months which frees up cash to use elsewhere or just continue to gain interest.

I like plans that have a large focus on pastels. They have been dropping in price lately, but I dont see how anyone could ever have enough female pastels. They seem to go well with almost every morph and produce lots of good looking doubles

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

I like plans that have a large focus on pastels. They have been dropping in price lately, but I don't see how anyone could ever have enough female pastels. They seem to go well with almost every morph and produce lots of good looking doubles

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Exactly!
I plan on holding back every single female Pastel I produce in the 1st year and use them on Supers, Bumble Bees and a few other projects! I could care less if Pastels drop to $200 next year!

I don't see Pastel's going down that much(I HOPE).This thread is great I'm going to get my Het pair for albino soon.So I'll be breeding pastel's and albino's then super's.And I also will only sell the male's.

Which Pastels make the nicest Supers?
Blonds, Lemons, etc?

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Originally Posted by ssscales

Exactly!
I plan on holding back every single female Pastel I produce in the 1st year and use them on Supers, Bumble Bees and a few other projects! I could care less if Pastels drop to $200 next year!

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Same, if females drop to $200 though I will probably buy 10 :)

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Originally Posted by ssscales

Which Pastels make the nicest Supers?
Blonds, Lemons, etc?

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It is a mixed bag. Ive seen hot supers for every version of pastel.



The key is nice pastel, nice super. For the most part Blondes are nicer than Graziani, but yet Ive seen subpar blondes and stellar Graziani's.

I will have to say though, that every blonde Ive seen in person and larger/older have held their color great.


The basic chart Ive heard is blonde>Lemon>Bell>Graziani, but Ive only had in person experience with Blodnes, Lemons, and Bells, most graziani I see online, only a few are very good.

With pastel males being very affordable I would try to get a nice looking one to start with. Right now I have some pretty nice Lemons, but I think I might trade up to a nice blonde my friend has.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

The basic chart Ive heard is blonde>Lemon>Bell>Graziani, but Ive only had in person experience with Blodnes, Lemons, and Bells, most graziani I see online, only a few are very good.

With pastel males being very affordable I would try to get a nice looking one to start with. Right now I have some pretty nice Lemons, but I think I might trade up to a nice blonde my friend has.

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I'm thinking of getting a Blonde and a Lemon. Some, if not all of the Graziani Pastels I've seen turn dark with age. You look at pics of when they were babies and then when they are 2-3yrs old and they are two different snakes.

We're trying to find the cleanest/lightest/brightest Pastels we can find for our Supers and Bumble bees.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Ive seen hot supers for every version of pastel.

The basic chart Ive heard is blonde>Lemon>Bell>Graziani, but Ive only had in person experience with Blodnes, Lemons, and Bells, most graziani I see online, only a few are very good.

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Are these different lines of the Pastel Jungle Morph? I thought Lemon Pastel was a different morph than pastel jungle?

A pastel = lemon pastel = pastel jungle, there aren't "different" pastel genes, or else there would probably be more complications in producing super pastels. If you can combine a lemon pastel and a VPI and produce a super pastel, then there aren't different genes in the mix. To say that they are different genes, would mean that a "super" pastel from a graziani x lemon is actually co-dom combo. I'm pretty sure that is not the case. Make sense?