BRB eating young?

I have a problem. A few months ago I caught my pair in a lock and thought great babies. SO I have since then gotten tubs and such ready for the arrivals. Last week I went in to feed her and she was a spit fire. So I just left her and the next morning I found after birth in the tank ( that is the best way i can think to describe it) but no babies. and the female just lounging about like nothing had happened. she is skinny again and hungry as sin. she took 2 medium rats.

Could she has aborted and eaten them or did she just eat them?

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Beauty the BP

Huh? Never heard of it. But if she just ate her young, I can't seem to think she would be hungry enough for 2 med rats! Any pics of the mess? Maybe she...heck I don't know!

That seems a bit strange, are you sure she gave birth?
Is she healthy, how does she look? Did you take any pics?
Sorry for your loss!

She is perfectly healthy. in fact i would have said she was a little over weight, but she was eating for a family before the mess. she is almost 6 foot in length, never skips a feeding, and is the sweetest thing going. kids can hold her and she just noses around and stays put. her favorite place is on my shoulder when I have her out. hubby makes jokes of her being my snakie boa........lol temps are all fine and humidity is 85 percent. Hides on both sides (they are cat litter small cat litter trays with an entrance cut in them) and she is on orchid bark.

I didnt know what was up when she went for me that day when I tried to feed her. ( I wear latex gloves between snakes so i dont smell like food, a different pair per snake.) she was 2864 grams and now is 2463 i know this because i weigh before every meal. So I dont know. All i can say is I cleaned up the mess and left her to her own. I didnt think about it again until i saw t he post of the new baby boas and saw the after birth ( egg sacks?) still on them. ANd it looked exactly like what I found in the tank.

I was just wondering if anyone else around here has ever come across this.

Her stools are normal. and nothing else is out of sorts.

any thoughts on this would be welcome.

Beauty the BP

I've never experienced anything like this at all...sorry.

Have you tried asking around in the boa forums?

Did you dig through the bark to see if the babies burrowed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gmmuscle91

Did you dig through the bark to see if the babies burrowed?

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nope no babies under the substrate. I cleaned the whole tank out when I found the mess.

Beauty the BP

Are you sure she was even gravid? I mean, if she slugged out, there would be a bunch of nasty looking eggs laying around. If babies did come out, there would be all kinds of mess, yolk sacks, etc etc. I'm doubting that she gave birth at all, just by your description. Just because you observed a lock does not mean that ovulation or the point of conception actually occurred.

But then what in the world was the 'afterbirth'?

Have you spoken to a vet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danielle(THM)

But then what in the world was the 'afterbirth'?

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I don't know if the person asking the question really knows that 'afterbirth' really looks like. She said she had to dig to find it...I'm most familiar with bci's and if brbs are anything comparable, its not something you could easily miss. I also think that a BRB would drop more weight than 400 grams, as stated ealier in the thread, even if it completely did slug out. Thats just speculation on my part though.

I don't know if the person asking the question really knows that 'afterbirth' really looks like. She said she had to dig to find it...I'm most familiar with bci's and if brbs are anything comparable, its not something you could easily miss. I also think that a BRB would drop more weight than 400 grams, as stated ealier in the thread, even if it completely did slug out. Thats just speculation on my part though (QUOTE)

I didnt dig for this mess it was on top of the substrate. And To clean it up I had to clean out the tank completely, so I would have seen any babies that had buried themselves. all I found was the " after birth" sitting ontop of the bedding.

I didnt think much of it though did take her to my vet 4 hours away to find out what might have happened. And she is as stumped as I am. I saved one of the pieces ( there were nine) and took it in with the snake and am awaiting tests results.

"
Are you sure she was even gravid? I mean, if she slugged out, there would be a bunch of nasty looking eggs laying around. If babies did come out, there would be all kinds of mess, yolk sacks, etc etc. I'm doubting that she gave birth at all, just by your description. Just because you observed a lock does not mean that ovulation or the point of conception actually occurred." (QUOTE)

I am certian that she was gravid. The term "SLUGGED OUT" is for those that lay eggs not live bearers. By my records she was due wednesday of next week, So was I far off on my calculations? I have permission to post this pic and to use it in asking a few breeders the same thing im asking you. This pic is from the post GOLDBURM posted called Baby Boas!!!!!!!!!! in the RTB forum.

http://www.jays-reptiles.co.uk/forum...rm/images/2006

As you can see there is still a SAck and umbilicus attatched to the rtb. this is what I found in the tank but there were no babies.

This is what i am trying to figure out. Can anyone help to explain what could have happened?

Thanks
Beauty the BP

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/3/1/0/2/2006-05-

OK its not letting me post this image. It is image 7 on the first page or the Baby Boas post in RTB forum. And you will then know what im talking about.

Beauty the BP

lets try this again third time lucky............

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...170506_015.jpg

Here you can plainly see the after birth im talking about.

Beauty the BP

Well obviously something went on here folks. Jessica found 9 of these things, whether or not they were afterbirths or not though quite honestly if they looked like what is in this picture I can't imagine they were anything else. But then were did the nine baby BRB's go?

From my very basic understanding of live bearing snakes they can birth live young, stillborn young and slugs which are the eggs that did not fertilize correct? I'm wondering (again I'm a total newb) if these 9 things Jessica were 9 slugs, in other words your female's eggs just did not properly fertilize so she expelled them? From pics I've seen of slugs though they don't appear like in that pic. They are sort of orange and round and egg-like, not trailing an obvious umbilicus? I believe you took a sample to your vet though and if they were simply unfertilized eggs I'm sure the vet would have said so right away.

I've been googling madly trying to find some reference to this Jessica and have come up blank thus far. Keep us appraised if you find out the answer as this is a sad mystery. I'm glad your female is okay though. Odd this would happen to her when she's bred twice before quite successfully.

These are slugs:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...s/IMG_3103.jpg

Is this what you found?
If so, she may just have slugged out and had no live full term babies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beauty the BP

lets try this again third time lucky............

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...170506_015.jpg

Here you can plainly see the after birth im talking about.

Beauty the BP

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Are you referring to the clear fluid or the empty red sack attached to the umbilical cord? I just don't think she ate them, maybe they are still inside her?
Have you taken her to a vet?

it wasnt the slugs. You see the sacks hanging from the umbilicus? and part of the umbilicus as well is what i found. kinda pink not yellow or orange. and there were nine of them. i think i am going ot have to wait for next year for another joining.

I have had her to the vet and she has had a full check up. one of which she really tagged the vet for. a rectal scope. (kinda like when a woman has a female prob and the ultra sound person uses the wand instead of the flat thing they run across the belly) Poor Barb needed 8 stitches.

It is as it was, just the slimey stuff and no snakie babies.

I am at a loss. mabye next year i will have some nice lovely BRB babies. I will let you all know what was found out. and if there is any instance of this happening before for other ppl.

she is back to her normal eating machine self and about to shed again. the post nate shed i think. very blue........lol

Beauty the BP

I am at a complete loss.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beauty the BP

I am certian that she was gravid. The term "SLUGGED OUT" is for those that lay eggs not live bearers.

http://www.jays-reptiles.co.uk/forum...rm/images/2006

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Not to nit pick, but over here in the states, that term is used to desribe the delivery dead young, whether still-born or in unfertilized eggs, to live bearers and egg layers alike. Baby boas actually "hatch" out of their "eggs" while still inside their mother and then are delivered live. Just wanted to clear that up.

Sorry for your loss on those babies...thats got to be frustrating!

It'll be interesting to hear back from your vet on her findings on the sample you took in Jessica. Either way it's a sorry loss but again, I'm happy the female seems to be recovering so well and that you did seek vet care for her immediately. It's lovely to see caring, concerned owners such as yourself. Do let us know what the vet determines as this could be a learning process for everyone here interested in breeding snakes that bear live young.

did they ever get an answer to this?