housing question

ok, so I'm planning on getting a female about a month or so from now and I have a couple of questions....

Nag isnt a year old yet, and I was wondering if I could house them both together to start with, or is that not a good idea?

also, if I do need to keep them separate, I've seen folks talk about keeping them in "bins" or such...can someone give me a little run-down on why you would keep them in a bin, and how it works if thats your housing of choice?

BTW, I have no intention to breed (certainly not any time in the near future...I am not knowledgeable as of yet to even think of it)
so thats part of why I need to know about the housing question.

here's the thing....I currently have a 30 gallon fish tank set up for Nag. the temps and humidity are perfect right now, and I was kind of hoping to be able to put Nagaina in with Nag for right now, cause we are moving in July and I need to know what kind of space I'm going to have before I know what the new housing situation will be. so is it dangerous for them to be in together if they arent littermates? is it safe enough for a month or so to keep them together?

Definitely best to keep them seperate. Cannibalism is rare, but it happens, and sharing a space like that stresses out any snake. They're solitary creatures and compete for the "best" spaces, and dominate each other. Plus if one gets sick, they both get sick.

I used this DIY Plastic Housing tutorial to set up Gomez's enclosure, cheap and excellent for shedding and such. :) He's a happy little dude in there. Doesn't take up a lot of space either, BPs are pretty laid back and don't need a whole lot of room. Hope that helps!

yes that does help...thanks :)

Plus remember when introducing any animal into your collection, you must quarantine! Which makes it a very bad idea. I would highly advise not housing two animals together, unless your actively breeding. And that's more like supervised visits. ;) It's a pretty standard rule around here. One cage = one snake. If you are unsure of your situation with moving, then why not put off the purchase until you are more settled? :D

Excellent advice Sheree! Wendy, if you are moving shortly it might be best to deal with that first then once you see your new space you'll be able to better decide what room you have for another BP. As Sheree said so well, they really don't require large enclosures though and in fact for young BP's an overly large enclosure is very stressful, so defeats your whole purpose.

All our BP's are in Sterlite tubs which generally cost no more than $11.00 for the largest one which is 39 long x 19 wide x 6.5 high, perfect for even our biggest females. Our smaller male who is just shy of a year old is in a smaller one of course. This gives them enough room but also allows for proper thermoregulation as well as two hides and a water dish (as well as their Acu-Rite of course).

Here's a pic of one of our bigger females in her tub. I'd just cleaned it so the Acu-Rite isn't back in yet and the lid is off for the pic of course.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...nnaghinTub.jpg

Here's another female tucked nice and snug into her hide. It's just a heavy rubber dog dish flipped over and an entrance cut into it but they love the dark security of it plus the flat roof for lazing about on when they feel like it (and it was only $3.99 at the local feed and tack shop LOL)
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...irseinHide.jpg

Here's another idea for hides. This is our male when he was quite a bit smaller in his little terracotta saucer hide. He's all ready for his meal in this pic.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...bushKiller.jpg

This is the Acu-Rite (WalMart...available under different brand names from Lowe's and Home Depot....around $10-$15 plus one AAA battery). Really works quite well for the low cost and will read two temps plus humidity of your enclosure.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/Acu-Rite.jpg

Hope these helped to give you some ideas of a basic setup.

I'll chime in that quarantine is a must...we brought Carmen home and set her up in another room, for which we were quite grateful when it turned out she had mites!

Had she been in the same room as Cleo, they might have spread.

[QUOTE=cassandra]I'll chime in that quarantine is a must...we brought Carmen home and set her up in another room, for which we were quite grateful when it turned out she had mites!

I had the same problem with my second BP. Thank god he was in a different room.

well another big big deal are the collection killers these are diseases that are so far uncureable and almost always result in death one of my good friends did quarintine but not efficently enough and 45 of his 47 snakes died from starlight sicness whiuch targets the brainstem

Well, I really appreciate all the advice. I never thought of quatantine before so I appreciate that as well.

I just told my future hubby i was buying a female and he said "ok....can I buy this new motherboard for my P4 that doesnt work?" LOL so what is it with him that he thinks that if I spent some money that he has to spend some as well. *grin* at least he didnt get mad at me *grin*

so anyway, in a few more weeks I will finally have my female and I think I'm going to transfer Nag to the rubbermaid thing as well...one snake one cage, right? that way I will definately have a place to put them, and my kids can have the fish tank for Nemo and Nemo's friends.

have there been any previous posts on how to set up a "bin" properly? I got a web link to something on BP.net, but I would like advice from different folks who do it this way.

I am ordering her from ectotherms.net....someone on here refered me to this guy and his BP's are so beautiful...it was so hard to choose. but at least this time I am ordering from someone who knows what they are doing, unlike last time.
I'm hoping I wont have to wait too long to get her, I'm so excited.

but I digress....ok, quarantine...for about how long?
plastic bins, one bin one snake....got it so far....
anyone else have any photos of their bin set ups so i can see how it goes? what to use for heating....right now I have everything perfect, but I want to be able to have the bins perfect before I put my babies in them...I dont want Nag to get stressed out again while I try to figure things out, and i'm sure that Nagaina will be cranky after her trip here and I want her to be able to get comfy without haveing to tweak anything.

am I annoying anyone yet? WAY too much caffeine and no sleep...great combination, eh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgie

I am ordering her from ectotherms.net....someone on here refered me to this guy and his BP's are so beautiful...it was so hard to choose. but at least this time I am ordering from someone who knows what they are doing, unlike last time.
I'm hoping I wont have to wait too long to get her, I'm so excited.

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Which one are you getting? I'm probably getting five from Will (they're on hold on his site) and I currently have five from him that I got in Feb/March. They are great animals!

I do know if you're getting an '06 he won't ship them out until after they've had three meals with him (most have had one so far). That's a good thing - that assures you that the animal you get from him has successfully fed and should continue to do so for you if you keep them in the proper conditions!

But yes, the animals that Will sends (I've received two shipments) are very healthy (at least the '05's were)!

I've picked out #866. I have the photo he took of her on my gallery thingie, which I just set up. I think I am going to move Nag into a bin and get Nagaina's set up for when she gets here. apparently we arent moving. sometimes its so hard to keep track LOL

so anyway, I am reading the plastic bin set up someone posted for me, and I am still wondering, who prefers plastic bins to other methods and why? also, do I go with a smaller bin to start off with, or do I buy the size they will be as adults right off the bat, or what? also, how do you heat plastic? Minnesota winters are COLD and I am going to need temp assistance in the winter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gurgie

so anyway, I am reading the plastic bin set up someone posted for me, and I am still wondering, who prefers plastic bins to other methods and why? also, do I go with a smaller bin to start off with, or do I buy the size they will be as adults right off the bat, or what? also, how do you heat plastic? Minnesota winters are COLD and I am going to need temp assistance in the winter.

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Well, my vote is for plastic, that works for me! I'm going to be putting my '06's in 15 quart tubs. In fact, some of my '05's are in 15 quart and like the snug fit (but that's in a rack).

Smaller is better to start off with. And if you go with tubs, they're affordable enough to upgrade when needed.

Why do I like them? Easier to maintain proper heat and humidity and none of mine in tubs or the rack have fasted (knock on wood).

I prefer the plastic to tanks, although I never thought I would. :rolleyes: I hate trying to heat tanks, it drives me nuts.

I would recommend plastic over a tank, because it's easier to clean and maintain the proper heat and humidity requirements. I would start off with a smaller bin and work your way up to adult size. They're not that expensive, so you can provide the perfect sized environment. (another big plus to plastic) Heating is done the same as you would for a tank. The temps on the heat tape/heater should never be high enough to melt the plastic. (which is why a thermostat is so very important!!) For winter's I would suggest a small room heater to boost the ambiant temps.

You should also try the search function. I know we have a couple good threads about this exact thing. :D

christie and robin are right, plastic storage bins are muy bien!


I have had no trouble with mine and yet the 50 gallon tank we have still drives me insane!

The best thing I like about the plastic bins is how easy it is to clean and get into as well as pick up and move around if needed. It holds humidity well and since Lola is entering her first shed since shes been with us it was no trouble putting the humidity up..just move the water dish closer to the warm side!

Its nice having a tank set up so friends can admire your snake and you can watch it interact with all its surroundings at night...but if you plan on owning more than one snake..got plastics!!

ha that should be rubbermaids new slogan...."If you plan on owning more than one snake....make it rubbermaid!"

cool....so i think i am going to move Nag into a plastic bin, and have Nagaina;s ready to go for when she gets here.

few more questions if you dont mind...
can you use a heat lamp for temp controls? if yes, how without melting the plastic? is flex-tape or a uth better for plastic? am I going to need some sort of artificial light for them? if yes, do I go incandescent or fluorescent?

If you have room temps of 78 or so, you shouldn't need heat lamps. I don't particularly like them, but you could use them if you cut out the lid of the rubbermaid and put some hardware cloth there. I would just use flexwatt. That is what is in my racks. Belly heat rocks!!

You shouldn't need any artificial light if your room has a window and has good old sunlight available. If you wanted to create artificial light, I don't think it would matter between the two. Your preference?

well, we've had are firts (possibly second) really nice day today, I think summer has finally arrived. thermostat says its 82 in here today lol (no A/C)

so if its that warm in the room, do I still need heating assistance? looks like I might only need the heating units in wintertime

so would I put nag near the window, in direct sunlight, or just near it?

flexwatt tape wont melt the plastic of a bin?

The warm room is only to keep the cool side temps at about 82 or so. You will still need the flexwatt to create a warm side of 92-94. You don't want the room so hot that the entire cage is 92. It doesn't allow the snake to thermoregulate. You also need the be able to keep those temps up at night too. :D

Just having it in a room with sunlight is fine. It doesn't need to be in direct sunlight. Mine are across the room, so that the sunlight doesn't affect my temps too much.

so if the ambient temp reaches 90 or more, which is not unusual in the summer here with no a/c, do I need to think about cooling down the inside of the cool side of the tank? i mean, if its bad for the whole thing to be "hot" how would I cool things down so that he still has a cool side of the tank to go to if he needs to?

Dont heat your whole bin if not neccessary

I keep a uth on half of the bin and a heat bulb (yucky i know) outside the tank (about a 60w) which helps heat up my hot end and doesnt get my plastic hot. The rest gets to be the right temp just from your warm end getting in the 90's.

Cooling it down is easy...Just open the cage...turn on a fan!
You should be checking on your enclosure often throughout the day. I do it a few times in the morning and my boyfriend checks on it in the evening.
We have weird weather here so its a must...no temp stays the same for to long in WI!

Once it gets warm outside all you'll need is your flex watt or your uth. I keep an extra heating pad around just incase my middle temp isnt warm enough, and I also use it for my back! gots those pains..need backeyotomy! (thank goodness my grampy has those old heating pads without the 2 hour shutt off.)

Oh and your do infact need a cooler side. Remember if your bp was in the wild it would be in a den chillen most of the day not drying up in the heat.

youll get it all right...just keep messing around and trying new things to see what works best!

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Originally Posted by 4Khan

Dont heat your whole bin if not neccessary

I keep a uth on half of the bin and a heat bulb (yucky i know) outside the tank (about a 60w) which helps heat up my hot end and doesnt get my plastic hot. The rest gets to be the right temp just from your warm end getting in the 90's.

Cooling it down is easy...Just open the cage...turn on a fan!
You should be checking on your enclosure often throughout the day. I do it a few times in the morning and my boyfriend checks on it in the evening.
We have weird weather here so its a must...no temp stays the same for to long in WI!

Once it gets warm outside all you'll need is your flex watt or your uth. I keep an extra heating pad around just incase my middle temp isnt warm enough, and I also use it for my back! gots those pains..need backeyotomy! (thank goodness my grampy has those old heating pads without the 2 hour shutt off.)

Oh and your do infact need a cooler side. Remember if your bp was in the wild it would be in a den chillen most of the day not drying up in the heat.

youll get it all right...just keep messing around and trying new things to see what works best!

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you dont want a "backyotomy", trust me, I've had 2 lol
laminectomy and discectomy, 4 years apart. sux. whats wrong with yours?

anyway, so maintain the hot side and watch the cool side to make sure it doesnt go below 80? I wanna get this figured out so I can be ready for nagaina in 2 weeks. sheesh feels like I am starting all over again as a newbie, but I suppose in a way i am...with the plastic bin thing that is.

ehh i was doing my strength training workout this morning with weights and my muscles get into knots easily as well as if I move just right(or worng) i pull them very easily. Yep...thats what i did today! now im walking like an old women with a poop in my pants! Also I have fibromyalga and my back is where i feel it most...I am the knot queen!!! Your pain must be unimaginable..icky!

baisically...just watch your temps. do what ya gotta to raise and lower them.
It can be a pain in the booty to constantly be checking but with the right gear your temps can be regulated.
good luck!

Do you have a/c available? You may need to consider a small window unit if your house temps normally reach 90+. Fans might help too, but not if the air your blowing is hot. Sorry that's not much help.

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Originally Posted by 4Khan

ehh i was doing my strength training workout this morning with weights and my muscles get into knots easily as well as if I move just right(or worng) i pull them very easily. Yep...thats what i did today! now im walking like an old women with a poop in my pants! Also I have fibromyalga and my back is where i feel it most...I am the knot queen!!! Your pain must be unimaginable..icky!

baisically...just watch your temps. do what ya gotta to raise and lower them.
It can be a pain in the booty to constantly be checking but with the right gear your temps can be regulated.
good luck!

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I pull muscles like that as well. I was diagnosed with degenerative disc disease and degenerative arthritis when I was 24 when I had my first surgery (along with half of the rest of the PDR...my doc says I'm a walking medical nightmare LOL). SUX but if you want to continue this line of conversation, maybe we should move it elsewhere? up to you.

anyway, I *think* we are moving in August before school starts, and hopefully we will have a/c then of some kind. if not, I am going to have to check into a window unit to keep Nag (and Nagaina in 2 weeks lol) comfortable. I'll wait it out for now and see if he is still behaving oddly and go from there.

ok so I just went and picked up my bins. They are 66 quart flat sterilite bins with wheels on bottom and a hinged top...for under the bed stuff.

I've looked everywhere and cant find anything on uth or flex watt for plastic bins. maybe I'm just dumb and cant figure out the search, I dont know, but I need help.

my questions are these...

1. uth, flex watt, or both...and why?

2. can you put the uth or the flex watt directly on the bottom of the bin or does it need to be on some sort of shelf under the bin?

3. whats the best way to control humidity?

4. how do the thermostats that you plug the stuff into work? think I need one?

5. I still need a hot side and a cool side, and 2 hides and water bowl, right?

wow I think I'm exhausted just thinking of all these changes LOL
thanks in advance folks. I know I'm a PITA sometimes, but I really cant figure out how to use the search function :/

help?

1. Flexwatt is a type of UTH (under tank heat) Flexwatt is relatively inexpensive and widely used.

2. You can use foil tape to tape the uth directly to the bottom of the bin, but allow a little air circulation under the tub.

3. In tubs, humidity isn't nearly as much of a problem. Less holes = more humidity. In a tank, less open screen = more humidity (contact paper works great for this)

4. Thermostats work the same as the one in your home. The control the heating elements so that they do not get too hot. Very important since flexwatt and other uth's can reach temps around 120 degrees uncontrolled.

5. Yup :sweeet:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

1. Flexwatt is a type of UTH (under tank heat) Flexwatt is relatively inexpensive and widely used.

2. You can use foil tape to tape the uth directly to the bottom of the bin, but allow a little air circulation under the tub.

3. In tubs, humidity isn't nearly as much of a problem. Less holes = more humidity. In a tank, less open screen = more humidity (contact paper works great for this)

4. Thermostats work the same as the one in your home. The control the heating elements so that they do not get too hot. Very important since flexwatt and other uth's can reach temps around 120 degrees uncontrolled.

5. Yup :sweeet:

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excellent! this might not be as hard as I thought it would lol
so in a bin, its possible or likely that just the flex watt will keep the bin warm enough? I'm going to have onto my lamps and stuff and make sure I have things right before I sell them, but it would be awesome to be able to get along without the lamps.
(Nag has had a few LOOOOONG days here lately. forgetting to turn on the red lamp before bedtime :)

and I should put the flex watt only on the "hot" side then, or does it need to be all over?

and how about air flow? what type of holes should I put in the bins (I know I know...the round kind)
where should I put the holes, how many , and what size?

and one last question....I've googled flexwatt and am not coming up with anything but commercial use, like for water heaters. where the heck can you buy the stuff?

anyone got a suggestion for a thermostat? one that works better than others? and how do you use them? all I'm seeing is "use it for night drop" and other such that for some reason I'm NOT understanding today. sheesh I feel like I'm on something lol

I'd hang onto your lamps, as backup in case something happens to your UTH. You can never have too much. ;)

The flexwatt only needs to cover about 1/3 of the tub.

I use a soldering want to melt holes into the tub. You kinda have to figure that part out yourself. Melt 10 holes into 2 of the sides, and then setup the tank with heat and water bowl. See what range your humidity is in. If it's too high, melt more holes. Some people use drills, but I have her of the tubs cracking. (although I can add any person experience with that) I would put the holes along the top portion of the tub.

As for the thermostat. There are two types. One that is on/off, like a Ranco. This one will heat up until it hit the predesignated point, then shutoff. Once it drops below that point it will turn back on. The other type is the Helix or Herpstat proportional. These pulse smaller currents constantly to maintain the desired temp. I have one of both, and I prefer the proportional, and have plans on getting a few more. These are not cheap, but ultimately worth it simply for the peace of mind. ;) You shouldn't need a night drop unless you are actively breeding.

Matt @ MG Reptiles can help w/the flexwatt. I got mine from him already set up so that it was "plug and play". GREAT! way to do it because I have neither the time, inclination or electrical know-how to do the wiring.


Aluminum foil tape can be bought at Wal-Mart. Taping the flexwatt (or other version of UTH) to 1/3 (I use one side. One of my tanks had the UTH running down the length in the back and it just really messes up the heat zones. *sigh*). Some plastic or felt feet glued to the bottom of your tub (unless UR using a rack system) will help with air flow underneath.

I have a soldering iron. For my smaller snakes, I melted the holes the size of the tip, but for Hera and the biggees who can't escape bigger holes, I used the size clear up to the handle. Even then, I got impatient and went a couple holes faster than the melting time and cracked the tub. :( I even melted some holes in the LID to help control the humidity. Hera liked to tip her bowl over so the humidity was always waaaaaay to high. < I've since changed bowls, too.>

For the little guys it might not be needed yet, but as your snake gets bigger and can push, you'll probably want to look at getting some office supply clips to clip the edges of the lid at different spacing intervals. I found out that hard way on a couple of my tubs, that the little goobers can squeeze thru the SMALLEST spaces and be the newest Houdini!!!!

If your room is around 82-84, your UTH will make the hot side w/o any additional lamps, but like my bedroom is getting TOO warm, I've started fans to cool things off, using just room temp and UTH. I've turned off the extra lamps that I used during the winter.

I hit the site. Those are some pretty snakes!!

Good luck Wendy. Sounds like you really care and are headed in the right direction for Nag and Nagaina!!! < Looooooove the names! I loved RTT!>

RuLyn