Advanced Herpatology Category?

I recieved a private message from a member pointing out to me that I might be confusing some beginners with some of my more advanced genetics/bio questions.

This wasnt my intention.....perhaps to prevent people who are foreign to genetics or biology from wasting their time going through complicated posts the admin might want to think of another category like "advanced biology of herps, etc."

I only recieved one complaint/commentary so I might just be being a little paranoid.....:) I just dont want to waste people's time or confuse them.

I was wondering what other people thought of this idea.....do we need such a category for nerds like me? lol

Well folks? Speak up here if you would be interested in having and/or participating in such a category. It probably wouldn't be much fun if Medel's Balls were talking to himself. :P


Personally, at least at the moment, I'm more interested in learning the ins and outs of the business side of everything. Hmmmm....that might make an interesting category also. Advanced Reptile Business discussion?

Both of those categories sound fine to me. If they don't work out, you can always merge the threads with another category down the road.

When reading, do categories even matter? ... All I ever do is "New Posts" or "Search" ... Any stats on how often users browse by category vs. just looking for all the posts since their last visit ... or searching?

Now "New Posts" broken down by group ... (for example "New Posts in all of the ball python categories", "New Posts in all of the non-herp related categories", etc) .... THAT would be a dream come true!! ;)

As if Smulkin isn't already the one legged man in the forum member kicking contest. ;) :P :twisted:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Now "New Posts" broken down by group ... (for example "New Posts in all of the ball python categories", "New Posts in all of the non-herp related categories", etc) .... THAT would be a dream come true!! ;)

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Great idea! However, if it can't be done I still like the idea of using category names. It's handy when you want to skim over some of the threads with vague subject titles.

Personally I like the site's overall organization very much.....I was just wondering if it could be improved upon.....I dont think there should be any really drastic changes.

I for one enjoy reading mendel's questions/resulting discussions. even though I don't think i've ever posted in one, because I have absolutely nothing of worth to say about the subject(:lurk:), I do enjoy reading and learning more about the biology of BP's. as for the new group, sure why not. I'm with adam though, I just look at all the new posts, i dont ever go into the individual group sections unless I'm searching for something in particular, or accidently click on some group.

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Originally Posted by Boarder4l154

I for one enjoy reading mendel's questions/resulting discussions. even though I don't think i've ever posted in one, because I have absolutely nothing of worth to say about the subject(:lurk:), I do enjoy reading and learning more about the biology of BP's. as for the new group, sure why not. I'm with adam though, I just look at all the new posts, i dont ever go into the individual group sections unless I'm searching for something in particular, or accidently click on some group.

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Thanks for the kind words Everyone needs a few fans.....lol

I'd definitely enjoy having a section that touches on these sorts of things. However, and I think Mendel was just tired, but please make sure the spelling is herpEtology. Sorry, Mendel. ^_^


I'm actually working on a biology major, hoping to really get into genetics. I'd love to add this section in.

I think such a section could only add to the wealth of knowlege already in here. I vote yes! :)

I'm with Adam...first thing I hit is "new posts"

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Originally Posted by TekWarren

I'm with Adam...first thing I hit is "new posts"

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Me too. I use that list to find all the new posts, rather than scanning each individual forum. However, having specific forums keeps everything neat and tidy, it makes it easier to find specific information if you're searching, and it sometimes promotes new discussions where there might not have been any before.

The staff has a lot on its plate right now and I don't know if new forums will happen anytime soon, or at all...but its worth discussing. :)

I am just a new posts kind of guy

I think seeing the advanced stuff in each forum here and there is a good thing, so I vote "no" on a seperate forum for all the smarty-pants people out there. Sorry nerds! ;)

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I think seeing the advanced stuff in each forum here and there is a good thing, so I vote "no" on a seperate forum for all the smarty-pants people out there. Sorry nerds! ;)

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I have to agree, I like seeing advanced things in each forum also. And I particularly like to read Mendels "advanced posts", as they are informative and spark alot of thought, I may not follow all of it 100% because some of it is over my head, but it is all interesting topics and well worth not separating it because it is felt that it is "advanced". I know that some are not interested in those topics, but really, it is not hard to ignore a post after you figure out that you are not interested in it or find it too complicated for you at that time. Besides, I would think that if it confused one and sparked interest, it would be the opprtunity to ask more questions to get rid of ones confusion.

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

I have to agree, I like seeing advanced things in each forum also. And I particularly like to read Mendels "advanced posts", as they are informative and spark alot of thought, I may not follow all of it 100% because some of it is over my head, but it is all interesting topics and well worth not separating it because it is felt that it is "advanced". I know that some are not interested in those topics, but really, it is not hard to ignore a post after you figure out that you are not interested in it or find it too complicated for you at that time. Besides, I would think that if it confused one and sparked interest, it would be the opprtunity to ask more questions to get rid of ones confusion.

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My inital thoughts about the compliant....I figured if you dont want to read something then you dont have too.....

But I figured I would take it to the people and see what they thought.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I tried to explain that it wasn't a "complaint" ... I don't understand what you're not getting.

Like I said, I think that you have some great insight and can add a lot to the forums, I just wish you could find a way to communicate your thoughts in a way that everyone can understand (or more people than those that have a background in chem, bio, etc) ... We have a lot of smart members here and the thing that I LOVE about this place is that it really feels like a family ... if you come in with posts that are way over the top, all you're really going to be doing is talking to a small group of members that have to background to understand what you are talking about and potentially alienating people that are interested, but don't know how to begin to jump into a conversation like that.

On the other hand, if you slow down, put some basics behind your vocabulary and ideas, and gauge your posts towards more of a common denominator, I think that you'll get a much more lively discussion from people on the site ... and most importantly, open the discussion to the entire community regardless of their background.

Same message, just different delivery is all.

I think that many of the members here would love to soak up as much knowledge as they can when it comes to all things ball python (and general herp) related and that you can be a valuable resource to help them do that … but in order to reach ALL members, you really need to find a more common vocabulary … or at least give them some help getting up to speed with yours.

It's not that I didn't like what you said, I just asked if you could try and say it in a way that more people could understand. I was just trying to help the site.

So yes, I'm the jack a$$ that sent the PM ... I'm not shy about it. ;) :twisted:

-adam

Adam, no reason to admit, we all knew it had to be you!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I tried to explain that it wasn't a "complaint" ... I don't understand what you're not getting.

Like I said, I think that you have some great insight and can add a lot to the forums, I just wish you could find a way to communicate your thoughts in a way that everyone can understand (or more people than those that have a background in chem, bio, etc) ... We have a lot of smart members here and the thing that I LOVE about this place is that it really feels like a family ... if you come in with posts that are way over the top, all you're really going to be doing is talking to a small group of members that have to background to understand what you are talking about and potentially alienating people that are interested, but don't know how to begin to jump into a conversation like that.

On the other hand, if you slow down, put some basics behind your vocabulary and ideas, and gauge your posts towards more of a common denominator, I think that you'll get a much more lively discussion from people on the site ... and most importantly, open the discussion to the entire community regardless of their background.

Same message, just different delivery is all.

I think that many of the members here would love to soak up as much knowledge as they can when it comes to all things ball python (and general herp) related and that you can be a valuable resource to help them do that … but in order to reach ALL members, you really need to find a more common vocabulary … or at least give them some help getting up to speed with yours.

It's not that I didn't like what you said, I just asked if you could try and say it in a way that more people could understand. I was just trying to help the site.

So yes, I'm the jack a$$ that sent the PM ... I'm not shy about it. ;) :twisted:

-adam

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And my point to you is that it is impossible to gauge where everyone is at every moment in an online forum.

You yourself often use terms like dominant and recessive...these are alien terms to many people. However, if an individual wants to really know the term he/she can just ask.....or search the forum. Some people that use this site are non-native English speakers and they probably are completely lost when we use certain idioms.

I try to be as lucid as possible....I could have been much more complicated with my post.....I could have used terms like intermediate, polymer, etc.....

I use analogies like the factory assembly line analogy of metabolic pathways.

Teaching is about life-time learning and helping other individuals become life-long learners.....put the ownership of knowledge and knowledge acquisiton into your students hands. Provide resources and aid for others when needed. I had a great Calculus teacher in high-school tell me "The learning is in the struggle...."

If you arent struggling at all to understand concepts, a person isnt really learning....

The challege of a teacher is challenge students to struggle but not struggle too much or they will become overally frustrated.....I myself struggled with some of the same things I talked about--"chromatophore biology" isnt real simple at first.

If someone becomes overally frustrated here they can always start a thread or chime into one.....or search the forums....that's the beauty of the net....its personalized if you know how to use it....and I think most people on this site learn how to use this site for their purposes rather quickly!

If there is one problem with my posts its that they have gotten too quick and sometimes make stupid word slip ups ....and I am sloppy with proofreading.

But xdeus, elevatethis, and many others that have help aid my discussions quickly help me out to remedy this....If you want to help out, suggest where I might need to simply things within a thread....dont rate me negatively. I dont have as many postives as you and a bad thread rating for disagreeing with "how I roll" just isnt cool...

I could get in the orange for no good reason....some of us dont have a million reputation points to spare.

Personally, the only reason why I think someone should receive a negative thread rating is because of direct insults, slander, racial/ethnic slurs, and vulgarity.

Otherwise, you likely to chase people away....the same thing you accused me of....and I dont think that is FAIR.

Anyway, I am sure you will have your opinion on this matter. You are welcomed to state it. I will unlikely respond.....I dont want this thread to turn into a complete slugfest. Your perspective did help me improve the biochem thread and come up with the analogy...and I thank you for that.

take care,

Mike

PS>As I joked before with you....its really all your fault....it was you afterall that recommended the following book.....http://www.chicagoherp.org/books/variants.html

Most of my questions have flowed from that text...your the one that gave this monster life...lol...:)

I realy like you post medel's, I love biology and herpetology, I what to study herp vet and or biology(I have to have some thing is biology to start vet some thing like that) and even I have troble with my friends at high school because the teacher and I will discuss stuff about the class and the other studest didnt knew what whe were talking, sow every where you go theres gonna be people that dont understand, but we have to put it in a level were they can undestand allittle more. Im one that my native language is not english, but with mi dictionary I can undestad words that I neves seen, keep up your post even if I dont reply :D

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

And my point to you is that it is impossible to gauge where everyone is at every moment in an online forum.

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Maybe for you. I don’t think it’s that difficult to spend a few minutes and a little bit of common sense reviewing some posts to see that our site is made up of teens and pre-teens, home makes, blue collar families, white collar families, intellectuals, goof balls, sweet hearts, and that Jamie guy … all of whom have different levels of education and experience in biology, chemistry, physiology ranging from none at all to graduate work. I’ve been a member of this site for well over 2 years now, reading and posting just about every day and I can say with great certainty that the majority of our members have no idea what “pterdine synthesis” is off the top of their heads.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

You yourself often use terms like dominant and recessive...these are alien terms to many people.

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Not to many of the people that are interested in ball pythons. Those are pretty household terms within the community. "Xanthophore" is not. I can say this with great certainty after 10 years of breeding and selling ball pythons and talking to people within the ball python community either via emails or on the phone on an almost daily basis.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

However, if an individual wants to really know the term he/she can just ask.....or search the forum. Some people that use this site are non-native English speakers and they probably are completely lost when we use certain idioms.

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Again, if you can get over yourself for one second, you would realize that I was trying to make a suggestion that would make your contribution even better. If you're going to make people "work for it" you are going to alienate many. Instead, if you convey your concepts in a simple, easy to read and understand post, a lot more people would be inclined to jump right in.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I try to be as lucid as possible....I could have been much more complicated with my post.....I could have used terms like intermediate, polymer, etc.....

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Well, that would have been fun.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I use analogies like the factory assembly line analogy of metabolic pathways.

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Right, and that was better ... but that was AFTER our PM exchange. Had you started out with analogies that people could actually easily understand, you wouldn't have heard a thing from me.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

If you arent struggling at all to understand concepts, a person isnt really learning....

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Wow, that's sad. I always thought learning was supposed to be fun. I teach concepts of genetics, breeding, and many other ball python topics based on my experience all the time, and I always try and make it fun. I would imagine that if I made people "struggle", they wouldn't keep coming back like they do. I think my reputation points speak to my ability to communicate my thoughts and ideas in a way that people can appreciate.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

If someone becomes overally frustrated here ...

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Why would you want to post something that might frustrate anyone?

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

If you want to help out, suggest where I might need to simply things within a thread....dont rate me negatively. I dont have as many postives as you and a bad thread rating for disagreeing with "how I roll" just isnt cool...

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See, there's your problem. The reputation system isn't designed for users to rate with positive or negatives, but with approvals or disapprovals. Based on feedback from a couple fellow forum members, I felt that your post was way to complicated for the majority of my friends here on the site to get as much as they could out of it ... (I had to explain some of what you posted to a couple of people that didn't get it) ... and I gave the post my disapproval. It's not about YOU, it's about your post, don't take it so personally.

A wise admin once told me, "if you're making good contributions to the site and helping people in a way that they appreciate, there's no need to sweat the disapprovals." .... and it's true ... I recently got a disapproval because I was "flirting" in a post ... imagine that. :twisted: Don't sweat it ... post what you want to post and if it's really helpful stuff, my disapproval won't even matter in a couple of weeks.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I could get in the orange for no good reason....some of us dont have a million reputation points to spare.

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And how do you think I got those million reputation points? I've put in my time and helped people ... same thing I was trying to do when I gave you the rep points. I just didn't show up with 2 green boxes on day one. I've earned them and I've gotten my share of disapprovals along the way. Put in your time and get over it ... you'll either sink or swim ... the choice is yours.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Personally, the only reason why I think someone should receive a negative thread rating is because of direct insults, slander, racial/ethnic slurs, and vulgarity.

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That's not the point of the system at all. Those things are TOS violations and handled by the mods. The reputation system is for members to rate other members. It's a way to visually identify who the helpful/knowledgeable/experienced posters are. I felt that your post wasn't as helpful as it really should have/could have been and rated it with my disapproval accordingly ... this is EXACTLY what the reputation system is here for.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Otherwise, you likely to chase people away....the same thing you accused me of....and I dont think that is FAIR.

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You know what they say ... if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen ... that's the price you pay for posting on an open discussion forum ... sooner or later you're going to say something that someone either doesn't like or doesn't agree with ... Lord knows I've taken my shots on the jaw over the years .... the trick is not to take it personally.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Anyway, I am sure you will have your opinion on this matter.

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But of course I do. It's a shame though, I thought we had worked this out between us via PM's ... didn't realize you were all ate up with it.

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

You are welcomed to state it.

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Really? Gee, thanks!!! :D

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I will unlikely respond.

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Who's got the over/under on that one? ;)

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I dont want this thread to turn into a complete slugfest.

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It's no slugfest, just a discussion between adults that should have been left in the PM's that went back and forth between us. If you're truly done like you said you were, well then I'm done too. ;)

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Your perspective did help me improve the biochem thread and come up with the analogy...and I thank you for that.

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So let me get this straight ... You’ll all tore up because some tool (me) gave you a disapproval on your reputation for not coming up with a way to help more people understand what you're saying, but that disapproval inspired you to come up with a way to help more people understand what you're saying ... hmmm … I think in your own words, you just proved that what I did worked … so what’s the problem? ;)

That’s how I roll. :cool:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I recently got a disapproval because I was "flirting" in a post ... imagine that. :twisted: Don't sweat it ... post what you want to post and if it's really helpful stuff, my disapproval won't even matter in a couple of weeks.

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That's ridicilous....but perhaps we should both expect more from our lover's quarrel. :) U want make-up....uh nevr mind :)

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

That's ridicilous....but perhaps we should both expect more from our lover's quarrel. :)

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Mike, you have yet to disappoint. :gj:

-adam

Glad you two worked it out! Now go ahead, :hug:

I still think it would be an interesting addition to .Net. -Shrugs.-

What would be the standard by which something was considered "advanced" though - what reference point would establish that evaluation? How about retitling the Breeding Forum to "Breeding and Genetics"?

I think that one of the driving ideas behind this idea was that Mike, and since I've jumped on the bandwagon, and I wanted a place for people to discuss much more involved herpetology. Genetics, breeding, etc.

Should we have a category like this for all of the subsections?

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Should we have a category like this for all of the subsections?

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Danke! That is where I was headed - it would have to be either one all-encompassing category - or one for each forum section.

The latter idea would be pretty cumbersome (I would not wish that additional housekeeping on our busy mods) - and the former would beg the questions raised before as to who/how determines what constitutes an advanced topic.

I LOVE this detailed info being discussed however, and lacking a forum specific to it should not discourage it ever coming up - I think a lot of folks on the site who would not consider themselves "advanced" or "expert" would still like very much to read and learn all they can - regardless of the level they would currently evaluate themselves at. I know I would.

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

How about retitling the Breeding Forum to "Breeding and Genetics"?

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Great Idea!

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Originally Posted by Melicious

I think that one of the driving ideas behind this idea was that Mike, and since I've jumped on the bandwagon, and I wanted a place for people to discuss much more involved herpetology. Genetics, breeding, etc.

Should we have a category like this for all of the subsections?

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No. That could get awefully messy around here and Smulkin is right, what reference point would establish that something would go into that catagory? I think that these things can be discussed in the places they are now being discussed in without creating messy looking sub forums all over the place.

Well, when you have people like Mike that are avid ball breakers with so much knowledge, it's nice to have a section devoted simply to all of the much more "advanced" information.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Well, when you have people like Mike that are avid ball breakers with so much knowledge, it's nice to have a section devoted simply to all of the much more "advanced" information.

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That could really alienate others you know. Mike is not the only avid ball keeper around here! There are plenty of them.

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

That could really alienate others you know.

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Not my intention. He was just one example out of many, many people on here.

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Originally Posted by Melicious

Not my intention. He was just one example out of many, many people on here.

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Oh, and Mike was the one who did bring it up...