What's the wait?

I've had my rats sets together for 5-6 weeks now and have witnessed the male getting busy, how long before I see babies?

I've noticed recently the females have been pushing Aspen in mounds in front of the hide box, is this a sign?

Gestation is about 21 days or so - please correct me if i am off (though should be right about close to it).


Fluffing the nest sounds like a precursor to me - if she's kind of fluffing it into piles in front of her (as opposed to hiding/digging up food).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smulkin

Gestation is about 21 days or so - please correct me if i am off (though should be right about close to it).


Fluffing the nest sounds like a precursor to me - if she's kind of fluffing it into piles in front of her (as opposed to hiding/digging up food).

---

She piling it front of the hide, I provide them with a hide box and they spend most of the day in it or on it sleeping. Lately she's been building a mound in front of the opening.

I don't have hides in mine - but as the drop date nears I notice they will often hang out in the corners a lot more and start piling up and tamping down a nice cozy depression and spending a lot of time sleeping.

Should I continue to clean their tubs weekly during this time?

Every Sunday I remove the Aspen, clean out the tubs with soap & water, spray some Virosan, rinse well, dry and replace the Aspen, as well as clean out the water bottles and food dish.

I don't want to disturb them, but I also don't want to go too long without cleaning!

I waited a good 2 months with the rats and never got babies... i dont know what i did wrong but it was frustrating! I'm having wonderful luck with my micies :) I think i will try rats again soon though.

On that note.... good luck with them! It wsounds like you have some promise with the nesting and all. Does she have a little pear shape tummy? It's hard to tell with rats sometimes, they dont get really big until about a week, even a few days, before they are going to pop. (when I had rats as pets i got babies, and didnt have the heart to feed them to my snakes... good timing huh)

I would clean the tubs ... and keep cleaning the tubs like you normally do even after babies come. The cage will get stinkier with all of those new bodies in there, and mom shouldn't mind too much if you move the family around a bit. Just do it quickly and gently and all should be well. :)

Thanks, the females don't look swollen or any different physically. I'll stick to my weekly routine, Sunday is cleaning/feeding day regardless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adizziedoll

I would clean the tubs ... and keep cleaning the tubs like you normally do even after babies come. The cage will get stinkier with all of those new bodies in there, and mom shouldn't mind too much if you move the family around a bit. Just do it quickly and gently and all should be well. :)

---

How I do it as well. just make sure when moving them for the clean you get the momrat transfered first - some don't take too well to that sort of intrusion - makes it less dodgy. They get a little frantic about it of course and (very) rarely she may take a bite at that intrusive hand - fery vew and far bewtween with ours

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smulkin

How I do it as well. just make sure when moving them for the clean you get the momrat transfered first - some don't take too well to that sort of intrusion - makes it less dodgy. They get a little frantic about it of course and (very) rarely she may take a bite at that intrusive hand - fery vew and far bewtween with ours

---

I got a nice set of gloves for this, just in case she gets nippy! I'd rather take a bite from an 8ft Boa before taking a rat bite, I know it's no big deal, but I'm paranoid!

I've found often the mommy rats won't look any different unless you pick them up, sort of hold their upper body and let their butt sort of dangle. If they are carrieing, then you will notice the bulge, when you won't see it with them running about.
Sometimes rats will not breed the first couple monthes according to what I was told, time to settle in I guess. I don't really know.
My mommies always seem to pile the aspen when they are ready, and I actually have one that piles ALL her aspen into one huge pile, and even gets it pushed out the top of the rack. A little frustraing, and you might want to be sure that the water bottle is not touching whereever they have decided to pile, as it can siphon the water out, and then you have icky wet bedding.
All only my opinion or observation.
Wolfy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

piles ALL her aspen into one huge pile, and even gets it pushed out the top of the rack. A little frustraing, and you might want to be sure that the water bottle is not touching whereever they have decided to pile, as it can siphon the water out, and then you have icky wet bedding.

---

Ugh I hate that - I have a few that will do that constantly - to the poin almost all the bedding is heaped up on one end of the cage and half the floor exposed.

Yeah not much worry on the biting - though you don't get any telegraphed strikeing postures to clue you in lol. Hey at least you dont have to worry about them dropping teeth when they bite you and maybe getting the socket infected lol.

I felt like my girls were prego for a few days now! I cleaned my tubs yesterday like I do every Sunday and nothing, today I went to check on their water and food and hear little squeals!


One of the females dropped 6-8 babies as far as I can tell, there may be more in there. As soon as they felt the cage moved they dragged the babies out of the hide and then just sat on them while they sucked.

I left them alone after making sure they had food & water!!

Congrats! I usually take nest building as a sign of 2 weeks pregnant +

If you pick them up you can usually feel the difference, and see that they are a bit more rotund. First litter moms might not show much at all and only have a small litter. Some mothers may swell up like a softball until you think they are going to explode (I got about 20 out of that one :) and she looked pregnant for 2 weeks.

Should I leave the other female and male with the mom and babies?
Should I clean the cage this weekend as usual?

How do I remove the mom and babies?

I would leave them all together, and change the cage as normal too.

Remove the female and other adults first, and then take the babes out. Clean cage, put babes back, than adults. just no dilly dallying! :) Grats on the litter!

Congrats on your first rat litter Gerry! I usually breed my females in pairs to the male and remove them when they start to get that chunky, pear shape (easier seen if you grasp them under their front legs and let them stand upright on your other palm). Some will get so huge they flop over on their back near the end and do the "dead rat" posture (scared the heck out of me the first time LOL).

When I take them away from the male they go one female per smaller maternity tub/tank until they've weaned their litter. I just find it easier to have each mother and her litter on their own so I can track who is raising litters well and who isn't. As well females can steal babies back and forth and occasionally injure the delicate pinkie rats. Also if you leave the male in there, he'll almost immediately rebreed your nursing female so she'll be in effect nursing one litter while another is growing inside her. For me anyways (since I'm not breeding 100's of rats) this is too much strain on my breeding females condition.

To remove her just do it quickly and with little muss or fuss, then leave her be with her babies in the new tub. She'll soon settle in with them. All rats nurse from above or the side so if you do provide a hide (which you don't have to) make sure it has lots of head space so the female can lay on top of the babies to nurse them as they tend to do that more until the rat young are quite a bit bigger.

Thanks, I think I'll let them be until this weekend when cleaning day comes around. I'll just check in once a day to make sure they have food and water.

I was just about to give up hope when I heard the little squeals!
Very cool!

Now, when should I remove them from mom?

The babies wean at three to four weeks, then mine get set up in the grow out racks separated by sex. You could keep them in longer if you need to, but you'll need to clean the bins more often. Expect more babies soon, most females in new colonies will drop litters within a week of each other. Congrats on the litter!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ssscales

Now, when should I remove them from mom?

---

Between 3- 4 weeks you will see them snacking on food, but when I see them drink out of the water bottle is usually when I wean the babies. Most of my weanlings are in the 30-35 gram range, occasionally 40 grams.

Make sure you are putting in lots of extra food and water around that 2.5-3.5 week mark as the little bugger's will not only start eating and drinking mom's supplies but nurse on her as well (little rat's are such leeches LOL!).

I usually wean mine around 4 weeks or thereabouts but I'm going to start with my next litter with staged weaning so that week 5 the weanlings will be with their mother part of the day and part of the day without her. One of our other members (I think it was Bdadawg) mentioned he does staged weaning and feels it benefits the litter and their dam rather than an abrupt weaning. I'll have to see if this produces any noticeable benefits for my colony.

Yes it was me that suggested staged weaning. I still do it on most of my animals. The one exception now is first time mothers (I take the pups ASAP, before they have had a chance to produce much milk). Even when filling orders I wont take all the pups from an experienced mother.


Ive found that the staged weaning will produce healthier and larger rats when compared side by side to ones that are stopped abruptly at 3 - 3.5 weeks. It also gives the female an extra week to recover (producing milk takes alot out of females, it takes vitamins and minerals that the female could use and gives them to the baby, it also reduces fat stores.)

Rats are referred to as weanlings at 3 weeks ... however the female wont usually start kicking them off until 4 weeks.

If you are going to remove the female its best to do it before they drop their litters. Doing so afterwords will sometimes make the females "freak out". Theyll grab one of the babies and run back and forth across the enclosure trying to stuff it into every nook and cranny. This has even happened on litters over a week old. Its stressful on the mother and can be fatal to the pups.

If you get a full fledged bite (one that draws blood) you need to get rid of that rat ... this seems to be a genetic disorder and will get passed along. Nips are fairly common ... just make you jump a bit. Although it is suggested that you use gloves when working with rats you can tell alot more about them by getting "hands on".

Bryan

Ive only gotten blood bites from mothers with babies. Well ok, once :P. And she was one who you can tell was going to bite, because instead of running around like crazy when i tried to pick her up, she would hunker down and swivel her head with my hand.

User error :) oops

Staged weaning sounds interesting, but i probably wont be able to try it. That type of micromanagement on 180 females (even if only 20-30 of them have litters aged 4-5 weeks) is just beyond me for the amount of time I am at home. Im definitely interested to see how much it helps though.

Bryan (Bdadawg) if you get a chance can you start a thread in Feeders called Staged Weaning Rats or something of that sort. This might be a nice topic for some of the smaller home rat breeders to follow or be available through our search engine. I know I'm always interested in new ideas to more efficiently produce the best size, healthiest weans possible.

If you get a full fledged bite (one that draws blood) you need to get rid of that rat ... this seems to be a genetic disorder and will get passed along. Nips are fairly common ... just make you jump a bit. Although it is suggested that you use gloves when working with rats you can tell alot more about them by getting "hands on".

Bryan[/QUOTE]

I totally agree! I got my original colony from a friend who has had his colony for a number of years. Every time he had a rat bite, it was food, preggo or not. I have only ever had one mom bite since I've had my colony going, and I have never had any aggression other than that one, not even a nip. She was snake food that same night. I've also never had a mouse bite, and I man-handle those guys quite often.