Agh internal parasites

Well, it all started (I think) about six weeks ago when my male surinam red tail regurgitated his rat. I thought maybe the rat was too big and decided to not feed for two weeks then offer him a small rat. He ate fine four times, but didn't eat this week. Then he pooped, and it didn't look quite normal. It was a fairly normal pile, but it had a puddle around it so it was a bit runny. So.. this is a sign of parasites (great)

Last night was the kicker, my female suri and male granite anaconda (all three snakes came from the same person) both pooped, and I saw stringy white worm like things. Wonderful! So I took the poops to the vet for exams ($35 a pop.. geez) and they are positive for tapeworms, and Ophelia has roundworms too.

So now I am worried that maybe more of my babies have these awful parasites! The three boas have been quarantined from the rest of my collection since they are fairly new additions. Unfortunately they are in the same room (the only really warm room in the house) but are as far from the other cages as I can get them and I've always handled the other snakes first and washed my hands very thoroughly after handling any of these boas.

My quesions are.. where could they get these parasites and how can I prevent any spread?

Getting fecals on all 25 snakes would run me over $800.. should I just keep close watch on their stools and if I see nothing odd, assume they are ok? Or should I select a few random snakes from the established collection to have tested?

I have an appointment for march 2 (soonest I could get..) to have them wormed. The vet said we have to do a stomach tube to worm them. I wonder how much it will cost.. the receptionist didn't know.

Any knowledge/advice is appreciated. I haven't dealt with this problem before.

When your quarantine is in the same room (and even in a different room) there is always the possibility of spreading something. Mites can travel long distances (hitchhike) and I would assume (maybe someone can back me up on this) that some internal parasites could do the same . I would keep an eye on all of them and use the strictest cleaning regimen and care possible. It seems like it might be overkill to spend that kind of money to treat everyone not even knowing if they are infected.

I am very paranoid and (I think) strict about the cleaning. If the snake touches anything, (or I touch anything after touching the snake) that thing is automatically 'dirty' and is in quarantine too. I have separate tools, spray bottles, stacks of newspaper for substrate.. separate everything. I wish I had a second room suitable for them to be in.

The $800 isn't even for treating.. only for testing. I really am not looking forward to the worming bill. It's been a tough month.. our family has been tight and my savings has been nearly cleaned out so we can just get groceries. :rolleyes:

Real sorry to hear about the situation. Personally, I would have all of them tested just to have peace of mind. Maybe the vet might offer you a discount for bulk testing?

Yeah that's possible. I'll have to talk to him when I go for the appointment and see what he thinks. Everyone else has normal poo and good appetite.. and are growing normally. No skinny snakes in my collection.

Gaaah, sorry to hear that April. =P /big hug

In my eyes, if one has it, they all have it, and should all be treated accordingly. Treat ALL for BOTH roundworms and tapeworms. There's also no need to stomach tube them. Treat with Cestiject(sp?) and some pyrantel pamoate(strongid) and they should be good to go. Cestiject is an injection and pyrantel can easily be put into the back of the animals throat to be swallowed. No biggie. Any generic Praziquantel will get rid of those tapeworms and you can find strongid at the feed store.

Just some friendly(trying to help you save those arms and legs) advice :)

What would be the reasoning to treat what could be healthy snakes with medication if they show no signs? No regurges, no visible worms in feces. I'd be interested to hear what a vet thinks.

It's just done as a precautionary treatment. Even if they aren't showing "signs" in particular, they could still be infected, especially if a fecal hasn't been done yet.

Dewormer will NOT hurt an animal, especially pyrantel(it's even given to people EVERYWHERE to get rid of pinworms). Ivermectin, on the other hand, if overdosed isn't a fun thing to deal with. Praziquantel is very safe too and can be found OTC now.

If you can get the meds at a cheaper rate and you can get them easier by yourself, why not? It's for the protection of your collection. Tapeworms can lead to regurgitation as we've already seen, wasting(massive weight loss), anorexia, and ultimately death. It takes longer for the bigger snakes to show signs as there is more bulk to them. The smaller snakes waste away quickly. Also, if a roundworm infestation is big enough, the animal can even start regurgitating the actual worms because they are backing up into the stomach and esophagus from the intestines. Not a fun thing either. Roundworms also have a migratory phase in which they can go through organs such as the lungs and liver, causing alot of damage along the way.

That is why I said, if one or two have it, regardless of the quarantine procedures, then treat them all. It's not going to hurt the animals at all, and if they do happen to come into contact with infected feces or equipment, then they will be protected(at least for a little while).

please don't panic. internal parasities can easy go off for youe snakes without vet.
you can buy 1 botlle of 1 Liter panacur for internal parasites and 1 botle of 200mg flagyl oral for protozoans .
you can give the drug oral. i did this 1 month later after i purched my first ball python and i succesful give the drugs without any problem after 1 week my bp start eating like crazy. (2 month anorexia)
i have 17 snakes with respiratory diseasce (don't ask why) and i succesfull give the right treatment and now all eating.
buy this drugs and tell me to tell you the right treatment.
its not haard. beleive me

DONT PANIC.

vets want your money
am sugesting you to buy reptile medicine and surgey by duglas mader. i just receive today and kill my mind. 129 dollaras from amazon.

Oh April - I am so sorry to hear that. Having gone through it with Kashmire when I first got him, I can understand the worry over them!

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

It's just done as a precautionary treatment. Even if they aren't showing "signs" in particular, they could still be infected, especially if a fecal hasn't been done yet.

Dewormer will NOT hurt an animal, especially pyrantel(it's even given to people EVERYWHERE to get rid of pinworms). Ivermectin, on the other hand, if overdosed isn't a fun thing to deal with. Praziquantel is very safe too and can be found OTC now.

If you can get the meds at a cheaper rate and you can get them easier by yourself, why not? It's for the protection of your collection. Tapeworms can lead to regurgitation as we've already seen, wasting(massive weight loss), anorexia, and ultimately death. It takes longer for the bigger snakes to show signs as there is more bulk to them. The smaller snakes waste away quickly. Also, if a roundworm infestation is big enough, the animal can even start regurgitating the actual worms because they are backing up into the stomach and esophagus from the intestines. Not a fun thing either. Roundworms also have a migratory phase in which they can go through organs such as the lungs and liver, causing alot of damage along the way.

That is why I said, if one or two have it, regardless of the quarantine procedures, then treat them all. It's not going to hurt the animals at all, and if they do happen to come into contact with infected feces or equipment, then they will be protected(at least for a little while).

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Excellent info Becky. That is what I was looking for...Do you have veterinary training?

Vet Technician, yes sir :) I'm the right AND lefthand of the vet(as well as the backbone in some cases, LoL).

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

Vet Technician, yes sir :) I'm the right AND lefthand of the vet(as well as the backbone in some cases, LoL).

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Rock on. Thanks for the info. Consider me flogged (as sometimes happens).

Shelby, sorry to hear about the bad news. This might help. Some vets will take payments. I know my mom has used that before with her animals when times were tight. I think she has even done it up there in Rockford. Message her (Blu Mongoose) and she might be able to help you out with a vet that will if yours wont. Remember, vets are in the business because they love animals too. Yes they have to make money, but some will help you out if you ask for it. If you have been using your vet for a while he might do it because he knows you and knows he will get repeat business from you.

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

In my eyes, if one has it, they all have it, and should all be treated accordingly. Treat ALL for BOTH roundworms and tapeworms. There's also no need to stomach tube them. Treat with Cestiject(sp?) and some pyrantel pamoate(strongid) and they should be good to go. Cestiject is an injection and pyrantel can easily be put into the back of the animals throat to be swallowed. No biggie. Any generic Praziquantel will get rid of those tapeworms and you can find strongid at the feed store.

Just some friendly(trying to help you save those arms and legs) advice :)

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Thank you Becky. I was hoping you'd come and help me out. :)

Ok.. let me see here.. where can I get cestiject and pyrantel pamoate? Is Praziquantel one of those things? I wondered why my vet wanted to do the stomach tube.. I thought dosing was typically done at home like RI treatments.

Will I be able to treat itty bitty baby colubrids too? I'd be terrified to give an injection to such a small animal..

You can get pyrantel(Strongid T) at the feed store. It is made for horses and you mix it with water and it tastes like banana or vanilla(I still can't decide and I have tasted it several times. And DON'T give me that look... :) ) It is relatively inexpensive, and you should have it for your horse already, and if not, you should, LoL.

For all of the teensy guys, I would just treat with the Strongid twice(once now and once in two weeks). Do the same with the adults, but mix their dose of Praziquantel in the Strongid. Treat again in two weeks. You can get feline praziquantel at TSC and pretty much any feed store now. I'm glad they made it OTC and not a Rx anymore.

Cestiject is mainly for larger animals(can only get it at the vet though). You can use it in the bigger snakes like the Suris, Annies and the Burm. I would just use the prazi caplets in the smaller snakes. I'd give you some of ours as it is expired and still works like it should, but the whole shipping thing, LoL.

The male Suri probably came with the eggs in tow, but whenever the eggs developed into larva and acual worms, then he started having problems with them. Rounds are icky things to have, and tapeworms especially. Ick...

If you can get some curved tip syringes, that would help greatly. Pharmacies may carry them, but you can definitely get some at the vet or the feed store. That will help you get the liquid in the way back of their throat so they actually swallow it and it doesn't dribble out of their mouth.

Dosages should be fairly easy to find, and I will see what I can dig up in my drug books.

She's the one they call Dr. Feelgood....

Nice advice there Becky!!

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

You can get pyrantel(Strongid T) at the feed store. It is made for horses and you mix it with water and it tastes like banana or vanilla(I still can't decide and I have tasted it several times. And DON'T give me that look... :) ) It is relatively inexpensive, and you should have it for your horse already, and if not, you should, LoL.

For all of the teensy guys, I would just treat with the Strongid twice(once now and once in two weeks). Do the same with the adults, but mix their dose of Praziquantel in the Strongid. Treat again in two weeks. You can get feline praziquantel at TSC and pretty much any feed store now. I'm glad they made it OTC and not a Rx anymore.

Cestiject is mainly for larger animals(can only get it at the vet though). You can use it in the bigger snakes like the Suris, Annies and the Burm. I would just use the prazi caplets in the smaller snakes. I'd give you some of ours as it is expired and still works like it should, but the whole shipping thing, LoL.

The male Suri probably came with the eggs in tow, but whenever the eggs developed into larva and acual worms, then he started having problems with them. Rounds are icky things to have, and tapeworms especially. Ick...

If you can get some curved tip syringes, that would help greatly. Pharmacies may carry them, but you can definitely get some at the vet or the feed store. That will help you get the liquid in the way back of their throat so they actually swallow it and it doesn't dribble out of their mouth.

Dosages should be fairly easy to find, and I will see what I can dig up in my drug books.

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Ok I'm still a little confused, but that's normal. lol

Ok pyrantel = strongid (we've been using feed-through wormer for the horse so I don't have any wormer right now) Does it come in a box/bottle? I guess not a tube since you mix it.

Also what is TSC? And the praziquantel is a caplet?

Do you think my vet will give me the cestiject if I ask for it? If this vet doesn't want to, I do know of another snake vet..

I'm guessing I could get a bottle of it and a bunch of syringes so I can dose it out myself (after weighing the snakes)

Thanks again.

Pyrantel pamoate(Strongid T) comes in a big white bottle with yellow lettering. It is given orally and you really won't hurt the animals if you end up giving too much. It CAN come in a tube, labeled Strongid Paste.

*Pyrantel(Strongid) is 25 mg/kg given twice, once on one week and again two weeks later.

Praziquantel can be found at TSC(Tractor Supply Co.) and pretty much any pet store now(if you have a Petsmart or a Petco, etc). It comes in injection form and oral form. The oral is the only one found over the counter. You would have to find out how many milligrams each tablet was and then break it accordingly, mix it in water and then give it to the animal(back of throat). I haven't tried this one, but I'm sure it tastes like butt, LoL.

*Praziquantel(Drontal/Droncit,etc.) is 5-8mg/kg given the same way Pyrantel is. You may only want to give this to the bigger snakes as they are much easier to dose and you won't be breaking tablets into 64ths... :)

If you can get the Droncit tablets and mix each dose in water, that would work best. The injections can sting, most times worse than Baytril as that Cestiject is THICK(think Karo).

I hope this has helped and if you have any other questions, please ask. I hope we can save you some money. There's no reason to get fecals on all of the snakes. Just treat them all and don't worry about it. The vet can sell you some Droncit tablets if you tell them what it is for. It is VERY unreasonable for them to ask you to bring EVERY SINGLE SNAKE in for fecals and dewormings. Can we say No? :) I like my money to stay where it is supposed to be as any normal person would, my wallet. Let's try to not make you have to sell limbs on the black market, LoL.

Ok it's getting less confusing now. lol

I work at petsmart with a state line tack in it so getting the strongid won't be an issue.. so any old tube (or bottle if I can get it) of wormer that says strongid on it is the right stuff? (I have seen strongid C, but I didn't remember strongid T)

I give the strongid to all the snakes big and small, correct?

And the praziquantel - can I mix this with the strongid for the big snakes so I only have to shove one thing down their throat?

So can droncit tablets replace the injection? If I can avoid injecting all of the snakes that would be nice, since they tend to hate me whenever one needs a shot.

With the small snakes only getting strongid, will that be adequate protection for them, and are there any other common parasites that could be missed with this treatment?

I am also not sure what kind of syringes to get. I imagine I'd want small ones in order to get them down the throat of the babies, but big ones to have enough capacity to hold what's needed for the bigger snakes. Can I order some online somewhere?

Again.. thank you for your help. :)

Ok Becky I want to make sure I got the right stuff.

I'm sure the praziquantel is right.. it's a small bottle of three tablets made for cats. Each tablet is 23mg of praziquantel. Cost $24.. I hope I won't need a lot of bottles of it.

I didn't see anything named 'strongid T' but what I got says this on it:

Farnam brand Liqui-Care P
Pyrantel Pamoate
Liquid Dewormer
Equine Anthelmintic Suspension
50mg of pyrantel base as pyrantel pamoate per mL


Is this the right stuff?

Those should both work fine and will be easy to dose out. Once you get all of the snakes' weights, just post them or PM them to me and I can help you out with calculating each dosage for them.

Glad you found everything and we'll be sure to get all of this sorted out and everyone on the road to recovery. :)

Ok.. so I will not need the injections then, correct?

I just need to know where I can get some good syringes. My biggest snake is around 21lbs.. what capacity syringe do you think I'd need?

Another question.. (sorry lol) would it be a bad idea to just treat every new snake I get with these two things instead of getting a fecal done, or are there other parasites that these things won't nuke? I'm just thinking this is going to be cheaper per snake than the $35 fecal, and worming doesn't hurt the snake.. what do you think?

Preventative deworming is a perfect first step to any new acquisition. It will help preserve your current groups' health.

No, no injections, no needles. I would go for some Insulin syringes(found at CVS or any drug store-without needles), some 3mL, some 6mL, and maybe some 10mL. I doubt you'll need more than that. You can get some curved tips at the vet or at feed stores(I believe...).

Also, when you crush up the Praziquantel tablets, measure the amount of water you mix it in and then we can figure out how much liquid the animal gets.

Hope that helps some!

best drugs for parasites are
Panacur and Flagyl
Panacur 1m/kg of snake standart
Flagyl 10-20 mg/kg (depnds of the brand name)
you can give them oraly.
ask alexhuereptiles.com is doctor.

Neither of those medications will get rid of tapeworms, which is why I suggested Praziquantel. Flagyl gets rid of Giardia sp. and if your snake has Giardia, have fun with a nice, LONG treatment. Protozoans are very hard to get rid of and you have to be very meticulous about cleaning and quarantine. Not to mention, if your snake has Giardia, then it is either Wildcaught or you need to look at your husbandry. It usually comes from drinking dirty water infested with the parasite.

Ok awesome, Becky. I am going out of town for the weekend, but soon as I get back I'm weighing all of them.

Are there other common parasites that praziquantel/strongid will not get? I'm just trying to make a plan for future aquisitions.. fecal test, or just routine preventative deworming.

That combo won't get rid of protozoans like Coccidia or Giardia. Those take metronidazole(Flagyl) or sulfadimethoxine(Albon) and treatment usually takes 3 weeks or more. I had to treat one rat for 3-4 weeks with Albon until it finally went away.


Both of those would be a good preventative to keep on hand if you get any new additions, regardless of where they come from, good breeder or not.

Ok. Do snakes show any signs when they have protozoans? ..and are they fairly common parasites or no?

Sorry to interrupt right in the middle of such a great learning session... Sorry to hear about the trouble April! :( But it sounds like Becky is gonna get you through! Kudos to Becky!! :) Good luck with the treatments!! And, BTW, long time no see! Well no type, whatever... Enough rambling... Good luck!

Oh yes, protozoan infestations can be the worst. Not to be graphic but... usually they get anorexic, dehydrated, bloody diarrhea, vomiting(or regurgitating) and if it goes on long enough, the animal will die from it. Definitely not something to be taken lightly.

Giardia and coccidia aren't "too" common, but if you are getting animals from a sheisty pet store that doesn't clean their cages or have clean water available, then you may see these parasites. You will definitely see them in wildcaught animals the majority of the time because the water they drink isn't Evian :).

On the same subject, I did a fecal on Amani, my Ball, this past Wednesday and found 4 pinworm eggs. The eggs were distorted and looked "digested". A friend of mine was doing a fecal on the same sample just to get a good reading and found 2 eggs in her sample, while I found two in mine. I then mentioned to her that my mice also had pinworms and we concluded that since the mice had pinworms, the eggs just passed through Amani's system and were showing up on the fecal float, hence the "digested" appearance of the eggs.

Like I've said many times before, if you happen to feed a parasitized prey animal to your snake, the snake will not contract those parasites. Now, if your snake was kept with another snake that happened to be infected with parasites, and you fed a mouse that had stepped in the infected snake's feces, yes, your snake would become parasitized because of that. Mammal parasites and reptile parasites are quite different and need optimum environments to reproduce.

Ok.. I am back.

I am going to have to weigh the snakes most likely on tuesday since that is my next day off when I will have the time and energy to weigh all of the snakes.

So if I understand correctly, a parasite infected rat (say with tapeworms) will NOT pass these on to the snake? Very interesting..

Nope, although when doing a fecal you may come across some digested remains of the parasites themselves or segments(eggs).

You may want to treat the rats as well, since breeding colonies can sometimes contract parasites just from living in cramped quarters. A parasitized rat may be eating, but it isn't absorbing that nutrition that they and the snakes' need. It would be as if you were feeding a malnourished animal that is skin and bones to your snakes(not YOUR snakes in particular, just an example) and the snake wouldn't be getting anything out of the rat/mouse.

I just recently treated my mouse colony for pinworms as well as some new additions that had the human tapeworm(Can we say QUARANTINE!? and gloves...Not that it would be a bad thing if I got infested... I could lose weight and THEN deworm myself *giggle*). Treating around 50-75 mice was an ORDEAL to say the least, makes you tired just looking at all of them and knowing you have to scruff and restrain EACH one just to give them some Strongid... And then the mice LIKE the Strongid and wonder why they were struggling in the first place...

Oh yeah.. not that long ago I was giving all the rats (around 100) the ivermectin for lice. Thank goodness I haven't seen another louse since..

How did you dose the strongid? Do you give it like the ivermectin and just wipe it on their tongue (it would help that they actually like strongid)

Ok Becky, I weighed (almost) everybody. I didn't weigh my biggest (female dumeril) but she's in the 21lb range. I also didn't weigh the foster baby sand boa, my new JCP, my hog island boa, or my mom's corn snake. I will weigh them tomorrow.

Can you help me figure out how many of each size syringe to buy tomorrow? And do you think I will need more than 75mL of pyrantel pamoate and 69 mg of praziquantel? If so I will pick up more at Petsmart tomorrow as well.

Here is the list:
12g albino nelson milk
14g greyband king
30g honduran milk
98g mexican black king
132g anery kenyan sand boa
176g normal kenyan sand boa
228g speckled king
280g roughscaled sand boa
290g albino cali king
452g small female surinam red tail
482g small male yellow anaconda
528g female cali king
614g ball python
636g albino stripe cali king
1850g female yellow anaconda
2180g male surinam red tail
2380g granite burmese
4550g large male yellow anaconda
4610g male blood python
5000g female blood python
7060g large female surinam red tail

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Originally Posted by Shelby

12g albino nelson milk

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12g?! Are you sure you didn't get a worm mixed up in the batch by mistake? :giggle:

:P the foster sand boa is 6g (at last weigh) so there.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

:P the foster sand boa is 6g (at last weigh) so there.

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<Gulp> :O Do they even make pinkies that small to feed that little guy?

Problem is she doesn't want to eat. She could get a newborn pink down easy if she wanted to, but I've been resigned to force feeding rat tails for now..

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Problem is she doesn't want to eat. She could get a newborn pink down easy if she wanted to, but I've been resigned to force feeding rat tails for now..

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Bummer. :( Well, at least the rat tails are probably easier to get down and healthier too.

For being 6 grams, she sure gives a good fight against me and the rat tail!

Look on both of the bottles and find the concentrations(Praziquantel is per pill and Pyrantel is per mL).

I will get to calculating dosages tomorrow evening and we can get all of this ironed out. Did you get some syringes? Tuberculin(1cc), 3cc, 6cc, 10cc, 20 or 30cc should do.

I didn't get syringes yet only because I wasn't sure how many of what size to get. I am a bit tight on money and didn't want to get the wrong sizes and have to go back and get more!

concentrations: pyrantel - 50mg per mL
praziquantel - 23mg per pill

Thank you again for your help.. it's a lot of weights to calculate.. you can tell me how to do it and I'll save you the hassle.

Not a problem. I'm an old pro at calculating dosages and it only takes me a few seconds on each one. *goes to find dosages again*

Ok, just so long as it's not trouble. :)

You're going to want to grind the Praziquantel pills up very fine and mix it with ONE cc of water. Make sure it is well mixed and dissolved so you get an accurate dosage. You can also dilute it down smaller and we can calculate it that way for the smaller snakes, but I am only going to calculate the Pyrantel for the snakes under 500g because the dosage for the Prazi is much too low to even draw up.

12g albino nelson milk= 0.03-0.05mL
14g greyband king= 0.05mL
30g honduran milk= 0.05mL
98g mexican black king= 0.05mL
132g anery kenyan sand boa= 0.1mL
176g normal kenyan sand boa= 0.1mL
228g speckled king= 0.1mL
280g roughscaled sand boa= 0.15mL
290g albino cali king= 0.15mL
452g small female surinam red tail= 0.2mL
482g small male yellow anaconda= 0.25mL
528g female cali king= 0.25mL/ 0.1mL
614g ball python= 0.3mL/ 0.1mL
636g albino stripe cali king= 0.3mL/ 0.1mL
1850g female yellow anaconda= 0.9mL/ 0.4mL
2180g male surinam red tail= 1.1mL/ 1mL
2380g granite burmese= 1.2mL/ 0.5mL
4550g large male yellow anaconda = 2.3mL/ 1mL
4610g male blood python= 2.3mL/ 1mL
5000g female blood python= 2.5mL Pyrantel/ 1.1mL Prazi
7060g large female surinam red tail= 3.5mL Pyrantel/ 1.5mL of Prazi-Water mixture

WHEE! All that done in about 10 minutes, Phew...

Ok.. so the small snakes will be fine without the praziquantel? Or should I dilute it more so they get some as well?

Do I grind up all three prazi pills?

Here's a stupid question for you.. are mL increments marked on the syringes? Because I have no idea otherwise how I'd measure mL.

Ok.. and now that we have amounts measured, can you help me figure out how many of each size syringe to get? (I still have to weigh a few more snakes, but I can at least guess which size is best for them)

buy 2 syringe
1 that can store 2ml of drug and 2 that can store 5ml or 10ml .
i prefer to use 2ml syringe for small doseage.

No, you don't want to just buy 2 syringes... That would be the wonderful cause of spreading germs and diseases from snake to snake. For the smaller snakes that only weigh 20g, a 3cc syringe isn't going to cut it. It won't measure the medication down enough and you could be overdosing(not very possible with Pyrantel, but still). It just makes more sense(maybe not to the budget) to get a separate syringe for each snake(and each medication bcause mixing them sometimes renders them useless).

April, about the increments on the syringes. They are all marked, either in 100ths of a cc(1cc tuberculin), 10ths of a cc as well as every 0.2cc(3cc, 6cc). Sometimes they are marked just in 1cc increments(every line, not just what is numbered).

I hope that came out right and made sense.

Also, you want to mix one pill per cc of water. That is how I calculated the dosages based on that. You will need more pills than what you currently have though, especially with the bigger guys.