The price/value of normal breeding females

I have been looking around and was just curious what you guys thought/input was. As far as normal females go, what is the average price for one??? and are they really that valuable that breeders don't want to part with them? I'm talking about a normal, average female, but a breeding size (2000g) adult female. Wouldn't breeders rather have het and pure morph females than just normal females??? I have been poking around, and have seen prices metioned of $500 to upwards of over $1000. Is this accurate or just a bunch of baloney??? And what about gravid WC females??? I seen those at a show two years ago for $695......or maybe it was $995....I can't remember. I mean, in my opinion, I think every BP regardless of color or genes is special. but it seems to me like some breeders shun normals, as "inferiors".

waitin for adam to chime in .... !

When you have co-dominate morphs like Lessers, Pinstripes, Spiders, etc in your collection, normal adult females are GOLD! ... Why would I sell a 2200 gram normal female for even $1,000.00 when I can breed that girl to a Pinstripe, get 7 eggs with 3 pins @ $8,000.00 each??? ... Prices for normal girls aren't high enough! ... I've turned down 2K for adult females ... not worth it.

WC adult's are a different story ... Personally, I'd never buy one ... Lots of importers price the gravid girls high and try to justify the cost with a "it could be a clutch of yellow bellies" or "it could be a clutch of spiders" sales pitch ... sure it could skippy ... WC's are a gamble ... lots of work to get them to eat ... 50/50 chance that they'll ever breed in captivity ... health problems ... etc ... not for me ... I'd rather use the rack space on a sure thing.

The other thing that I like to point out about adult girls is this ... To a ball python breeder, an adult female is priceless .... I would never sell a single one, but if I did for some crazy reason "need the money", there are dozens of people that I am friendly with that I could call up and move adult females to very quickly and very quietly for fast cash ... the "good ones" are are just that valuable ... I wouldn't need to run an ad on KS or take them to a show ... unless I didn't want to screw over another breeder by dumping garbage on them ... You see, lots of the adult females you see for sale on KS and at shows are someone else problems that are safer for the dirt bags to pawn off on the general public than risk taking a beating at the next show they attend by selling junk to someone that they know ... some girls just don't breed ... ever ... other girls throw slugs year after year ... some girls just constantly get RI every season that you can't get rid of until it clears up on it's own in the spring (meanwhile the male she was bred to gets sick and dies from it) ... there are TONS of things that could be wrong with an adult female that you buy on the internet or at a show that you won't even know about until many months later when you try to breed her and your male gets sick, or you wear out your male trying to breed him to a female that has been bred 4 years in a row and has never laid an egg.

I'm not saying don't buy adult girls off the net or at shows ... not at all ... I've done it ... and I'm sure I'll do it again ... I'm just pointing out that things aren't always what they seem, and there is more people out there selling their problems than healthy animals when it comes to adult girls.

(end adult female rant)

-adam

Adam, your well-spoken response brings up a question: Have you personally ever raised up a female to breeding size, only to have her never breed or consistently throw slugs? If so...what do you do with her? Do you try to find someone with no intention of breeding and sell her at a "pet price?" Or....?

I'm just really curious about how you might handle that situation.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Adam, your well-spoken response brings up a question: Have you personally ever raised up a female to breeding size, only to have her never breed or consistently throw slugs? If so...what do you do with her? Do you try to find someone with no intention of breeding and sell her at a "pet price?" Or....?

I'm just really curious about how you might handle that situation.

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I have, and I keep them .... I have all kinds of "clunkers" around my shop ... males and females that don't eat right ... sluggers ... animals that are "tweaked" and can never be used in a breeding program ... males with no hemipenes ... normal males that are just cool looking, but nothing I would ever breed ... I'm just a nut for ball pythons, so I don't mind hanging on to them ... they're all my little friends. :D

-adam

Awwwwwww! Now there's a sure sign of a breeder who loves his snakes! If there was ever a doubt left (there wasn't! LOL) then that would certainly prove to me you're not just in it for the money.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

animals that are "tweaked" and can never be used in a breeding program
-adam

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In layman's terms - that is????? Or was that what you listed after the part I quoted?

All good information and certainly book-mark worthy for me to go back and re-read later! ;)

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Originally Posted by JLC

Awwwwwww! Now there's a sure sign of a breeder who loves his snakes! If there was ever a doubt left (there wasn't! LOL) then that would certainly prove to me you're not just in it for the money.

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Yeah ... well it still stinks when Vaughn comes over and makes fun of me for all of the "clunkers" I have hanging around. :(

:rolleye2:

-adam

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Originally Posted by rabernet

In layman's terms - that is?????

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You'll know it when you see it. Not all baby ball pythons are born "perfect".

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Yeah ... well it still stinks when Vaughn comes over and makes fun of me for all of the "clunkers" I have hanging around. :(

:rolleye2:

-adam

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Well, honey! If your friends can't play nicely, don't invite them over any more. Remember - stick and stones......... :neener:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You'll know it when you see it. Not all baby ball pythons are born "perfect".

-adam

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Hoping the ball python gods take favor with me and I never see it! LOL

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Well, honey! If your friends can't play nicely, don't invite them over any more. Remember - stick and stones......... :neener:

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I know, but that Vaughn's a big meanie :bolt:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I know, but that Vaughn's a big meanie :bolt:

-adam

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Do you need to me to have a chat with his mother? :sigh2:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Do you need to me to have a chat with his mother? :sigh2:

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LOL ... No, but if it comes to it, I know of someone in his world with MUCH more power. ;) muhahahaha!! :sweeet:

-adam

Adam, thank you so much......you are totally sooo knowledgeable and ALWAYS answer my every question with an honest and really good answer. I have never purchased an adult female from anywhere. However I do have a 2600gram female that I rescued about four years ago that was mistreated....whether she was a WC,CH, or CB I don't know. But she has produced eggs for me for the last three years, and the quality of her genes shows in my pics of her babies. She was originally rescued as a pet, and had no intention of breeding her. But when I tried for the first time, I realized her value not only as a pet, but as a breeding female. I love her to death, and she is my fave girl...."Hermione"...:aww: Like you said Adam, worth more than her weight in gold.

i didin't make fun of all of them, maybe one or two! lol i was just a bit shaken to see a 2 yr. old normal male taking up real estate in a freedom breeder rack! now that's a site you don't see often, most breeders don't even get normal males feeding before they sell them. to find an adult one , just chillin in a breeder rack is rare!! kudos to the jedi:sabduel:


vaughn

There are only a few reasons I can see for selling a breeding size female, most of which can be avoided or dealt with.

1. Financial reasons (if you plan well, or can take out a loan, a normal female will probably help you more at remedying this problem than selling her would)

2. Space reasons (I would think if you have a breeding size female you already have room for her, but if not, additional housing is well worth the cost)

3. Not enough males (too many females, not enough magic juice to go around). In this case many people are willing to breed their males to your female, especially if you have people you trust. I would imagine the problem is usually the opposite though, as one male can breed many females depending

4. She is infertile, sickly, consitantly doesnt breed, (fill in other negative here)


Those are the first 4 that come to my mind, and #4 is a reason to be very careful who you buy from

"males with no hemipenes ..." Adam, do you really have these? and how did this happen???? ....and how do you tell if he hasn't got any?????? :giggle: I know you'll have an answer, but I was just curious.....;)

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

"males with no hemipenes ..." Adam, do you really have these? and how did this happen???? ....and how do you tell if he hasn't got any?????? :giggle: I know you'll have an answer, but I was just curious.....;)

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Sometimes males get infected hemipenes and they need to be removed. I've also got a boy that had a tumor on one of his penes and had to have it removed ... the hemipene was removed at the same time to prevent any possibility of the tumor spreading.

BTW, males can breed just fine with only one hemipene ... I have a male that has sired bunches of clutches and he's swinging solo.

-adam

Oooooh....I see. A misunderstanding. I thought you meant that they had none...meaning both were gone. I do know that they can still breed with just one, I just misunderstood when you said you had males with no hemipenes. I was wondering,geez how the heck is that guy still gonna breed???? :giggle:

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

Oooooh....I see. A misunderstanding. I thought you meant that they had none...meaning both were gone. I do know that they can still breed with just one, I just misunderstood when you said you had males with no hemipenes. I was wondering,geez how the heck is that guy still gonna breed???? :giggle:

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I do have a male with NO hemipenes ... he had a double infection and they both had to go ... he's a good boy, eats fine, and he'll be in my collection until the day one of us dies.

At the rate I'm going it will probably be me first. ;)

-adam

Wow!! That poor guy. I have seen pics of what an infected pene looks like, and no snake should go through that. You must really love him. Does he have a name? I can't wait to see him when I come visit!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I do have a male with NO hemipenes ... he had a double infection and they both had to go ... he's a good boy, eats fine, and he'll be in my collection until the day one of us dies.

At the rate I'm going it will probably be me first. ;)

-adam

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Don't you go dying on me! - LLoyd Christmas

I have snakes to buy and much money to give you!!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Don't you go dying on me! - LLoyd Christmas

I have snakes to buy and much money to give you!!

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Don't worry ... there is a plan of succession ... fortunately for you at 4 years old, my son isn't real great with money yet, so you'll probably be able to pick up some snakes in trade for bubble tape, a new tee ball bat, and a PS2 game ... and I'd roll in my grave the entire time!! :carouse:

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Don't worry ... there is a plan of succession ... fortunately for you at 4 years old, my son isn't real great with money yet, so you'll probably be able to pick up some snakes in trade for bubble tape, a new tee ball bat, and a PS2 game ... and I'd roll in my grave the entire time!! :carouse:

-adam

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Oohhh, I want in on that deal!!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Don't worry ... there is a plan of succession ... fortunately for you at 4 years old, my son isn't real great with money yet, so you'll probably be able to pick up some snakes in trade for bubble tape, a new tee ball bat, and a PS2 game ... and I'd roll in my grave the entire time!! :carouse:

-adam

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Muahahaha..I can provide an entire case of bubble tape!! What would that get me?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Muahahaha..I can provide an entire case of bubble tape!! What would that get me?

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He said a normal male ... nice big 03 with sperm plugs. ;)

From his lips to my keyboard ... "big NYC baller like Jamie, he's going to have to come correct with more than just a case of gum if he wants the goods" ... Honestly, I don't know where the kid gets this stuff. :P ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

He said a normal male ... nice big 03 with sperm plugs. ;)

From his lips to my keyboard ... "big NYC baller like Jamie, he's going to have to come correct with more than just a case of gum if he wants the goods" ... Honestly, I don't know where the kid gets this stuff. :P ;)

-adam

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Wow! Tell him I have normal males coming out my a$$. Of course that would keep him laughing for hours and we wouldn't be able to do any business. (Snakes coming out of people's ***** is funny!)

Dude, you are letting him watch too much TV! That must have been either Cribs or Pimp my Ride!

We're down with the X to the Z to the ibit! :sweeet:

-adam

Adam: Pimp my ball collection. O_O

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

We're down with the X to the Z to the ibit! :sweeet:

-adam

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That's how you roll...Straight up hood..

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

We're down with the X to the Z to the ibit! :sweeet:

-adam

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Man, I'm not watching enough MTV. I'm still using "Foshizzle with my Nizzle"... :nerd:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Man, I'm not watching enough MTV. I'm still using "Foshizzle with my Nizzle"... :nerd:

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That was the best d@mn show to ever make it on the air waves right there!! ... But I have to give you a heads up bro, anyone that knows 'snoop speak' knows that that isn't the most PC phrase in the world ... uh oh. :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That was the best d@mn show to ever make it on the air waves right there!! ... But I have to give you a heads up bro, anyone that knows 'snoop speak' knows that that isn't the most PC phrase in the world ... uh oh. :P

-adam

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Have we gone PC here?! Uh oh...

And the Fo Shizzle is so 2004... :colbert:

Adam, you'll have to share a picture of your progeny with one of "his" snakes sometime. I'd love to see the little stinker! =D

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Adam, you'll have to share a picture of your progeny with one of "his" snakes sometime. I'd love to see the little stinker! =D

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Yeah, I know ... pictures ... I'm kind of a dork about that ... I'm sooo not the warm and fuzzy type. :P

I'm wearing down though ... maybe there's hope. ;)

-adam

Well, I don't see *you*...I wanna see the cute one! ;) :P

Oooh. EVIL!

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Well, I don't see *you*...I wanna see the cute one! ;) :P

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LOL ... now there's a smart woman! ;) ... I'll see what I can do. :sweeet:

-adam

Yes, Adam you should definately post pics of your progeny holding his future "college-money makers".....!!!!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That was the best d@mn show to ever make it on the air waves right there!! ... But I have to give you a heads up bro, anyone that knows 'snoop speak' knows that that isn't the most PC phrase in the world ... uh oh. :P

-adam

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Snoop Speak?! Damn... now I have to go find a Snoopictionary, or would that be a Dictionizzle?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

Snoop Speak?! Damn... now I have to go find a Snoopictionary, or would that be a Dictionizzle?

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Enjoy!

http://www.gizoogle.com/

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Enjoy!

http://www.gizoogle.com/

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ROFLMAO! Here's a sample of what I got back when I gizoogled "Ball Pythons"

Bizzle Pythons, A Gang Bangin' Guide Ta
Extensive 411 straight trippin' steppin' care n husbandry, feed'n strategies, doggy stylin' vocabulizzle resources, n frequently asked questions

Deal'n Wit Bizzall Python Feed'n Problems
Mizzle bizzay pythons in tha pet trade is imported fizzle Africa puttin tha smack down. In Africa, tizzle do not eat mice; they eat gerbils n shot calla smizzay mammals thiznat smell nuttin' ...

Dude, click on the site. It translated the whole Melissa Kaplan site on Balls! Hilarious!

oohhhhkay....now that's just wrong! :rolleyes:


;)

That is definitely a Joanna "coffe-on-the-monitor" experience! ROFLizzle!

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Enjoy!

http://www.gizoogle.com/

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It scares me that you even knew this link existed! :rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

It scares me that you even knew this link existed! :rolleye2:

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But does it surprise you!?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

But does it surprise you!?

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No, no I can't say that it does! ;)

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Originally Posted by rabernet

No, no I can't say that it does! ;)

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My work is done... :groinkick