2nd Petco BP Visit

Stopped by PetCo again today to get more info on theri ball pythons. They slipped down a few points with me.

The price for their BPs (normal, of course) is $80, probably about what I'd pay to get one delivered. But there are some issues.

1) Gender information is unavailable. So without paying a vet to probe one, no telling if I'm getting a male or female.

2) They had to be force fed when the store first got them, but are now feeding normally on Frozen/Thawed.

3) This particular batch seems to have a bad attitude, according to the clerk. When we got one out to look at them, all three did "false strikes". The one I held stayed curled up in my hands in a strike posture. I wanted to hold it longer to see if it would calm down and start exploring, but the clerk took it away after a few minutes. (of course, if I was happily in bed and got pulled out of my room by some giant hands, I might be a little grumpy also)

First, is it reasonable to expect to know the gender of a BP, especially if paying $80?

Next, can early force feeding cause eating problems down the road?

Finally, for the third item, I'm actually not all that concerned. I'm inclined to chalk it up to snakes that are stressed because they're in a pet store with kids tapping on the glass, and they also probably don't get out very often. Is it reasonable to expect that once one of these guys/girls is put into a quiet vivarium with good temps/humidities, left alone for a couple weeks, then taken out for short handling sessions would come around and tone down? Or are these not a good idea for a first time snake owner?

After this, looks like I may have to get a snake delivered sight unseen after all...

those are probably imports that have not been kept and cared for properly. you could do better contacting a breeder and getting a cb baby for around the same price. for those petco babies, i would also factor in a vet visit and a round of meds maybe. that would jack the cost higher than buying from a breeder. just my thoughts!



vaughn

Don't be tempted to buy from a pet store. You'll get a much better pet from a breeder. Just my $.02

Yeah I compared my CB BP to a Petco BP. Mine was easy to handle the first handle. Has only tried to strike at me one time. The first night I had her, and 2 weeks later but it was because she was hungry so I really wouldn't count that as a strike at me. The ones at petco were shedding in only 30% humidity :( and their cage temp was only like 78. Go with a reptile store that has CB BP's.

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Originally Posted by TraconSnake

After this, looks like I may have to get a snake delivered sight unseen after all...

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Have you checked for any reptile shows coming up in your area? Even a 2-3 hour drive would not be too far to go, in my opinion. Besides just the fun of attending, you may get the chance to look through LOTS of bp's in person and actually speak to the people breeding/selling them. Way, way better than a few sad snakes in a pet store.

But even if you can't get to a show, I would rather buy from a breeder online than buy from a petstore. The only time I would buy from a petstore (if my husband would tolerate it...LOL) is if I happened across an extremely unusual bp for a "normal" price. ...Figure the odds! ;)

I was told that they were captive bred, but who knows. I think the bigger chain stores are doing captive bred, however, due to the pressures of trying to maintain a positive image.


As for shows, the herp society lists the next reptile show as September 16, 2006. Quite a ways away. I'll be ready to go in July.

I contacted a breeder in this forum and he pointed me to a breeder down south of here. This breeder states on their website that they will only do single sales with genders which they have an excess of. And they seem to operate out of their home, so I'm not sure if they'd allow me to pick one up in person yet (E-mail response pending)

Colorado seems to be a great void of breeders, or at least, the ones who can be found through a search engine.

I would buy from a pet store if they had a 2500 gram female for $100 :) I know my friend has found a few of those.

I wouldnt buy a baby though. force feeding is rarely needed if you provide the BP with proper temps and humidity and hides.

talk to jamie glass. he has one normal male left according to his site. it will cost you about 85 with shipping. he posts on this site a lot. i bought my male bp from him and he is great. his website is www.glassreptiles. i believe another person on the forum bought one of his others.

Yeah, Jamie is a great guy. You can't go wrong with him!

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Originally Posted by TraconSnake

I was told that they were captive bred, but who knows. I think the bigger chain stores are doing captive bred, however, due to the pressures of trying to maintain a positive image.

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No big chain store is doing captive bred. They all sell CH imports, and anyone that tells you different does not know any better. The number of normal captive bred ball pythons produced each year is so small compared to the demand for babies that probably all of the BP breeders in the US combined could not supply one big chain like Petco or Petsmart. The cost of CH babies when compared to CBB babies is also a reason that these chains sell CH. I could buy 5-6 CH ball pythons for the price you would pay for one CH BP in any petstore.....petstores can mark up the price of an animal over 3x what they paid for it.

Buy from a breeder or at least a quality dealer...You will be much happier with your purchase.

I bought my bp from Petco about 2 yrs ago and even tho they said he was cbb I think he was maybe captive born but not breed.
Mine was a sweetie pie right from the get go.
If you can go w/ a breeder just like everyone said that would be they way to go.
Force feeding is never a good thing and I can't believe a Petco would even care enough to do it. Sounds fishy .

Not all bp's from Petco are bad or mean or in poor health, but that bunch I think I would stay away from. If you do choose to buy one from a Petco make sure you have a good exotic vet lined up to take it to.

Check around and I am sure you could find a good breeder to buy from.

The less people buying from the pet stores, the less demand there will be from africa. (of course that's where we get all our pretty morphs from, and is somewhat hypocritical) Stick with a breeder and get a quality animal, with outstanding customer support to help you out through your herping adventure! (and YES, there WILL BE MORE!- welcome to the nuthouse)

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

No big chain store is doing captive bred. They all sell CH imports, and anyone that tells you different does not know any better.

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PetSmart doesn't sell BPs, but they actually have marked on their tags "Captive Bred" for their Cornsnakes at least. We'll have to wait and see when they start selling BPs.

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Originally Posted by adizziedoll

The less people buying from the pet stores, the less demand there will be from africa. (of course that's where we get all our pretty morphs from, and is somewhat hypocritical) Stick with a breeder and get a quality animal, with outstanding customer support to help you out through your herping adventure! (and YES, there WILL BE MORE!- welcome to the nuthouse)

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I wouldnt say that... its not as if breeders are having to euthanize their males because they cant sell them.

Until breeders in the states are producing enough snakes to meet the needs, they will continue importing snakes from Africa. Once there is enough being produced, then it will become a price war, and Africa may or may not keep winning (by then some morphs may be common enough that they gain the edge over normals priced low in africa). Im bad at the guessing games.

I figure breeders will always be able to sell at a fair enough price to customers, just not to pet stores like PetCo who pay less than $10 a snake and re-sell for $80.

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Originally Posted by TraconSnake

PetSmart doesn't sell BPs, but they actually have marked on their tags "Captive Bred" for their Cornsnakes at least. We'll have to wait and see when they start selling BPs.

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My comment was directed at Ball pythons. If PetSmart does have ball pythons...I can say with almost 100% certainty that they will be CH. You also have to be very careful at the labeling of snakes when you purchase them. Some snakes are sold as CB which most people figure as captive bred; however, some dealers will label CH as CB to move the animals. They can get away with this by saying CB means captive born which is the same as captive hatched. If you are looking for animals from any dealer make sure that it is captive born and breed(CBB).

As far as the corn snakes being captive bred, I don't think I have heard of people selling WC corn snakes in a long time. It is a big difference when you are dealing with an corn snake that can lay 15+ eggs and a ball python that averages around 6 eggs. Small clutches is one reason why CBB ball python prices (morphs and normals) are alot higher than the majority of other snakes out there....the production is alot slower due to small clutches.

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Originally Posted by TraconSnake

After this, looks like I may have to get a snake delivered sight unseen after all...

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I've purchased six of my current 8 online (and two het males from our very own Adam at http://www.8ballpythons.com that will be coming home soon), but they weren't sight unseen. I was able to select my babies from pictures on the website and when I asked, was provided additional pictures.

If you buy online, just do your research and make sure that who you are buying from has a good reputation. All of the ball pythons in my home right now (I have 8 currently) were all CH babies and are doing great - but they were also given good starts and were good feeders, other than my first.

My first, Kashmire was purchased from a company that decided to get out of the pet trade. Five of my kids came from Will Bird at http://www.ectotherms.net, one came from Mike at http://www.ballpythonssouth.com and although I picked her up at a show this weekend, she was a girl I had bookmarked on their site as one that I really wanted to buy and would have ordered and had shipped, but it just so happened that he brought her to the Atlanta show this past weekend - so it was fate. My last was a pet store surrendered adult female.

I guess I said all this to say that only one of my snakes came from a pet store, but as a surrendered adult, but none were what I would describe as sight unseen.

I was tempted by Petco BPs once, the lady let me hold em and it was just the sweetest thing... but obviously having health issues, they all were, shed stuck all over the face too.

I am SO glad I got my boy from Jamie. :) Gorgeous healthy little piggie! Now when I pass by the PetCo BPs I stop and coo but can't help but shake my head, the poor little things just don't hold a candle..

If possible avoid the pet store babies. I've gotten a few snakes from one local private pet store but it is generally well above the chain stores in it's care of the reptiles. It is still a worry though and we have an arrangement with this pet store to take the BP's to our vet for a visit before we even purchase the snake.

There are a number of good breeders you can access online. There's no reason you have to buy a BP "sight unseen" even online from a private breeder. Most like Will Bird, Jamie Glass, etc. will quite happily provide you with pictures so you can pick the male you want.

Having purchased both online and in person at a pet store, I would say the experience with the breeder was the best. The snake was of the best quality and of all our BP's, has the most impressive record as far as feeding response and growth patterns.

80 bucks seems kind of steep for a baby bp. I paid 45 for mine, granted I picked a tick of him the day i brought him home. He's only struck at me once, and that's cause I prevoked him. Other than that everythings been fine. The pet store I got him from says he was bred, but I'm having doubts, cause of the tick.

Just to speak up for Petco, our Cleo is from our local Petco and she has been an angel...=)

Thanks for the support all! As far as Petco, it is hit or miss on what you will get there. When I was much younger I ran a Petco store. Lets just say that you saw more dead animals in a week than you would want to see in your lifetime. This included those that came in dead (birds, rodents, reptiles and of course fish) and those that died at the store due to previous disease/stress or lack of care. Unfortunately Petco does not pay their employees enough to find the right people to take care of the animals, nor do they provide the proper tools/supplies to make sure they are healthy as possible. You will always be better of going to a breeder or show and getting a CB baby. As far as Petco selling CB reptiles, for the most part they don't (and possibly not at all). They get the bulk of their reptiles (at least as far back as I can recall) from Gourmet Rodent who does a lot of importing. Support the breeders selling quality CB babies. Ill get down off the soapbox now. :)

Not all chain pet stores are evil, I got my Bauhamat at Petco for $65, when I first held her she slithered up my arm and right to my face, lol. I asked if she was cb or wc or ch, and the girl in the reptile section was completely honest with me, she was ch. I asked for a feeding demo, and they gladly warmed a fuzzy and fed her. Digital thermometer's and hydrometers in all reptile tanks, not an unhealthy looking one in the bunch. This was probably due to the fact that when I bought Bauhamat, the three employees that I spoke with were reminiscing about when their snakes were babies, and showing me wallet sized pictures of their scale kids. :P I understand that some stores take horrible care of their animals *Cough* PETLAND *Cough*, but sometimes (rarely) the people who work there really care about the animals, and not selling stuff.

Tracon, I have been on "both sides of the glass" so to speak, as I have been to several shows myself, as well as working at a Petco for six years....I think I can help you with this. befoe reading this, understand that I am not trying to defnd or ridicule Petco or show any bias toward breeders.....just stating from my own personal experiences. Yes, I do beleive $79.99 is ridiculous for a baby BP, considering I have gotten them at shows for $10-$50. As far as the location goes, I personally beleive that almost all their BP's are WC or CH. The vendor used always changed, because the company always went with the cheaper deals when they were offered. The store I worked in was no exception. The quality of the animals from these different vendors would go up and down....shipments were extremely variable as far as the colors weight and temperaments of these snakes. However, on vendor we had for awhile was Calzoo. I though they had the best of all the vendors we had.We wanted to continue with this one, but Upper management doesn't listen to low-life employees...we apparently had no control over it. i have never personally purchased a BP from that store, but I do own one, and from time to time I saw a few stand out from the hundreds i seen throughout the six years there. And I have pics to show it to!! My Hemlock is pfroof that not all Petco snakes are bad. But, as I had recommended to customers many a time before, and will stand by it, go to a reptile show. Much better price, quality, and selection. And most breeders there will be happy to answer any questions you have. Tracon, if you wanted to ask me directly, as I have already made this post too long, just PM me. ;)

We have just recently bought a ball python from petco.I do have to agree about not knowing the gender I did not like that either,but we could not complain about anything else.The snake has been extremely well mannered,it loves attention.It is eating good,and growing fast!

Im going to dip on into this kool aid....

I bought my bp from Petco.
The young lady told me it was a female and they were eating pinkies.
Well after talking with another gentleman at a petstore who happened to be a flippen snake-ologist (yes i know thats not a real word) he assured me Khan was most likely CH and was NOT feeding on F/T like she said and was used to live.


Well she actually was a he when we took him to the vet. We bought him right before he was about to shed so we were not to sure on his temperment. The vet said try live...his alertness was a sign he might be hungary. We tried a live weaning (obvioulsy much larger than a dinky pinky) and he ate it up no problem.

Each weak he eats great....although its live it still eating and thats whats important.

I was upset that she was a he, but hey poop happens. I will no longer buy from a petco but there is a lesson there that i learned, and although Hoffers is a great pet store in my town and I like there selection, I think I'll be buying from a breeder this time round.;)

As far as the price of snakes go, I think it's pretty moot. If I buy from Petco, I'm out $80. If I buy from an online breeder, I'm out $30 for the BP, and $50 for the shipping, so the price is ultimately the same. I did E-mail a breeder in Canon City, CO, wich is within driving distance, but he seems to be dodging my inquiries as to whether or not I can drive down and pick one up as opposed to having it shipped. (home operation w/ no brick and mortar storefront)


Since the cost is the same, I might as well go with buying online and having it shipped. It's either that or wait 6 months for the reptile show to finally find it's way into Colorado.

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Originally Posted by TraconSnake

As far as the price of snakes go, I think it's pretty moot. If I buy from Petco, I'm out $80. If I buy from an online breeder, I'm out $30 for the BP, and $50 for the shipping, so the price is ultimately the same.

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But if you are dealing with a reputable breeder, you are getting a well established cb baby. With Petco you are getting ch, which may or maynot have parasites, unknown sex, and usure feeding records. No contest in my book. ;)

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Originally Posted by hornsrule

talk to jamie glass. he has one normal male left according to his site. it will cost you about 85 with shipping. he posts on this site a lot. i bought my male bp from him and he is great. his website is www.glassreptiles. i believe another person on the forum bought one of his others.

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disclaimer : in no way shape or form am I accusing anyone on this website of anything...it just so happened that this is a subject that ticks me off and I had to speak up. so please dont take offense...I meant none, all I wanted was to warn anyone considering on buying one from Nathan Rice in Baton Rouge, LA.

I have to chime in on this one. Talking about mailing and breeders and such....

Some of you know how I got my Nag, but I'll make a long story short, simply because I want to get the word out...

I bought Nag and his brother from a guy named Nathan Rice in Baton Rouge, LA. It took a long time after I sent him the money to get the snakes in the mail for me. I also explained to him how he needed to ship my snakes ...using OVERNIGHT service with something like a Therma-care heat wrap for the trip. I told this guy that when I bought the snakes that we had 10 to 20 degree highs and if he didnt package the snakes right they would die.

He didnt pack the snakes well, and I lost Nag's brother, and Nag was a hair away from being dead himself. Luckily, with a warm chest and some time, Nag finally started showing signs of life.

Luckily I was able to save Nag, but his brother wasnt so lucky.

So, at the risk of being rude and possibly offending someone, PLEASE do not do business with this guy...he simply cant be trusted. One last time...dont trust Nathan Rice from Baton Rouge, LA.

Gurgie.....what does your bad experience have to do with with Jamie? You quoted a comment concerning him.....but then go into a spill about some other guy....what does it have to do with your quote?......you talk about a 'subject' that makes you angry...what subject?....am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Gurgie.....what does your bad experience have to do with with Jamie? You quoted a comment concerning him.....but then go into a spill about some other guy....what does it have to do with your quote?......you talk about a 'subject' that makes you angry...what subject?....am I missing something?

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it has nothing to do with jamie...see disclaimer at the front of my post.

basically the reason I put it where I did was because folks were talking buying snakes and such off the internet, and I just wanted to put the word out that this breeder where I got my Nag is no good to deal with because of reasons specified in my first post...

again, it has NOTHING to do with anyone on this web site at all. its simply a warning from me to try and protect someone who might come across him in the search for a BP that he isnt reputable.

I apologize for any confusions I may have caused with this post. I meant no harm to anyone else in the group

sorry

I understand... the quote concering a honest person doing business...then followed with comments about bad internet business with no explaination about why the comment was quoted....is kinda confusing for me.....We do have an inquiry section on the site where comments about breeders and such can be posted too....so your concerns about this guy do not get overlooked because they are imbedded in another thread.

Doing business on the internet is great....but it does have its risks. These risks can be lowered by dealing with people such as Jamie that are established as honest breeders. It is always a good idea to check references and even check the Board of Inquiry at www.faunaclassifieds.com ......and that is what sites like this are for.....I have met a ton of honest people here ;)

Yes, I would agree with you on that. You all have been nothing short of awesome. very helpful, very friendly, and in some cases, very funny :)

anywho, I sincerely apologize for posting my rant in here. I didnt know there was another section to post to. I will know better next time, I promise. He just makes me so mad when I think about him basically sentencing my other snake to death with his shipping methods.

I'm very sorry, Jamie. I didnt mean to make anyone think bad things about you. I very sincerely apologize.

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Originally Posted by Gurgie

Yes, I would agree with you on that. You all have been nothing short of awesome. very helpful, very friendly, and in some cases, very funny :)

anywho, I sincerely apologize for posting my rant in here. I didnt know there was another section to post to. I will know better next time, I promise. He just makes me so mad when I think about him basically sentencing my other snake to death with his shipping methods.

I'm very sorry, Jamie. I didnt mean to make anyone think bad things about you. I very sincerely apologize.

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Not a problem. There are scammers/idiots everywhere in this world and plenty of them in the reptile business. Take a look at the BOI on any day and you can find a new post about some Joe Nobody from Arkansas (no offense to the folks in Arkansas) that has scammed somebody, lied, shipped a dead snake, etc. There are also just as many good guys out there who love reptiles, love finding good homes for their babies and generally want to treat people well. Its all about finding the right person. Use the BOI, ask questions here and know that you are going to get a straight answer on who to deal with and who to avoid. That's what makes this community so great!

Thanks for being so understanding. How do I find out if there is a snake swap -or convention or whatever you call them - in Minneapolis? I'm googling but not having much luck. am I using wrong terminology or what? anyone have a guess? lol
sometimes I feel so brain dead...so if its not a "snake swap", what else can they be called? I was at one in cincinnatti somewhere around 15 years or so ago, and havent been able to find any since then.

I'd check out Kingsnake and I believe .Net has some shows posted as well on the home page.

They might be called reptiles shows or reptile expos. Not sure about minny but you might try the closest major city (my geography stinks so don't ask me where that would be! :) )

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Originally Posted by jglass38

They might be called reptiles shows or reptile expos. Not sure about minny but you might try the closest major city (my geography stinks so don't ask me where that would be! :) )

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LOL Minneapolis IS the major city....unless of course you mean St Paul, in which case, I need to go about 5 miles across the river to find the closest major city *grin*

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Originally Posted by Gurgie

LOL Minneapolis IS the major city....unless of course you mean St Paul, in which case, I need to go about 5 miles across the river to find the closest major city *grin*

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I told ya my geography is crap. I knew Minneapolis was a major city but I meant a major city where shows regularly happen. Like Indianapolis or Chicago. :)

I know, I'd have to go to Chicago, I'll have to take a train to the next show, NO WAY am I driving there :colbert:

i had one from petco not to long ago, and all it did was have something worng with it, one after the other. i then gotr one from adam from 8ball pythons and havent had a problem yet. feds regularly ect.

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Originally Posted by Swizzle

i had one from petco not to long ago, and all it did was have something worng with it, one after the other. i then gotr one from adam from 8ball pythons and havent had a problem yet. feds regularly ect.

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I hesitate to ask but what happened to the one from Petco?

well first was mites, didnt eat well, then at my fault i lost her to belly rot. he was shedding and i used newspaper and being the idiot i am didnt know not to spray it or it would get moldey, im only 16 by the way, and i had to put her to sleep. Also she was very stressed.

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Originally Posted by Swizzle

well first was mites, didnt eat well, then at my fault i lost her to belly rot. he was shedding and i used newspaper and being the idiot i am didnt know not to spray it or it would get moldey, im only 16 by the way, and i had to put her to sleep. Also she was very stressed.

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Sorry to hear. Hopefully Adam has given you some more information that will help you keep your new guy healthy.

BOI...

If you register, is the search feature enabled? I couldn't find one on the site.

Yes, but only when logged in. :D