Mechanism of Sex Determination in Ball Pythons?

Does anyone know what determines whether a ball python develops into male or female? Is it envirnomental determination? Or is it a genetic mechanism such as our XY system?

I know for many reptiles sex choice is usually determined by the temperature at which early embryonic development takes place. However, if that was the case couldn't breeders try to control whether or not they have males or females? And since females are ususally worth more money.......

I havent seen any sex-linked traits being discussed in these parts.....of course this doesnt mean they dont exist..........

Could it be the ratio of different types of sex chromosomes?

LOL...I was all set to type something about probes and popping, but that's not what you're asking, huh? :P I believe the sex of BP's (and any other snake I know of, but I'm no expert) are determined genetically, rather than environmentally.

Ball pythons are rather simple in terms of genetics. No temperture sex determination and no known sex-linked traits. There has been some talk of sex-linked traits(I think the coral glow was one) in some new morphs....but when only 3-4 of the morph actually exists...it may just be that the odds have not hit one of both sexes yet. These animals are rather "new" to the reptile industry, so alot is left to be learned.

Makes sense.....like i was alluding to...if it was environmentally determined I think breeders and their incubator would have figured out how to control it by now......

But does anyone know if it is a XY system similiar to our own?

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Ball pythons are rather simple in terms of genetics. No temperture sex determination and no known sex-linked traits. There has been some talk of sex-linked traits(I think the coral glow was one) in some new morphs....but when only 3-4 of the morph actually exists...it may just be that the odds have not hit one of both sexes yet. These animals are rather "new" to the reptile industry, so alot is left to be learned.

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Cool....it will be interesting to see how it turns out....

Coral Glow is a designer morph (it's a double recessive).....right? Is it the coral albino or the ghost trait that may be sex-linked....

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Coral Glow is a designer morph (it's a double recessive).....right? Is it the coral albino or the ghost trait that may be sex-linked....

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Coral Glow is a dominant morph (possibly co-dom). You are thinking of the Caramel Glow which is a caramel albino and hypo double recessive combo.

ok thanks got confused on names.....

With so many variations to one animal....the morphs are easy to get confused at first...then you become obsessed and know them all:devilish:

Here is something to read:
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/ball_coralglow.html
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/bal...okealbino.html

I also suspect that breeders do not want to reveal all their secrets right away.......

Probably extremely unrelated but I know I've read in de Vosjoli's Boa Constrictor Manual that temperature variances while the female is gravid can change the saddles into striping or change the striping in some boas...

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

I also suspect that breeders do not want to reveal all their secrets right away.......

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It is not that they don't want to give away secrets. If they kept too many secrets, it would bite them in the a$$ eventually. The majority of ball python morphs have only been breed in the past 5 years and still some are not in high numbers. They do not want to make a statement like it is a proven fact without it being well supported....i.e. they don't want to give away bad info, be proven wrong later, and have their reputation in the reptile industry ruined.

You will see all kind of conspiracies in the ball python industry.....homo spiders, deadly combinations, and other genetic problems...

Here are some good old threads to read over and see what I am talking about...
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=27328
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=25653

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

It is not that they don't want to give away secrets. If they kept too many secrets, it would bite them in the a$$ eventually..

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True....Their reputation is on the line so it is defiantly worth being sure u are correct.....

And since eventually they want to lure people into buying more snakes they want to share breeding/potential offspring advice with their clients.....

Still like a scientist who doesnt share his breakthrough definative results until he publishes them.....Breeders probably do keep some little genetic secrets until the right time...

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Originally Posted by Mendel's Balls

Does anyone know what determines whether a ball python develops into male or female?

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I was doing a little research online and found that all snakes (unlike other reptiles) use a genetic system to determine sex. However, they do not use an XY/XX system like we do.

In mammals, the male is the sex that carries two different types of chromosomes (XY). In other words, males are the hetrogametic sex.

Reptiles not using temperature dependant sex determination often use what is called the ZW system. In this system the females are the heterogametic. The genotype of a female is ZW while males are ZZ.

Essentially, this means the sex-linked genetics of Snakes are "backwards" if you compare them to mammals. (Birds and some fishes also use this system).

Anyway thought I'd share that FYI.

After owning a ball python for a little more then a week I just like watching it when its active at night.....I sometimes feel like I am watching an alien life form.....When I learn about things like that it only reinforces that feeling....

Coooool! thx for the info. As a former biology/animal science major, I find that sort of stuff really fascinating. I just hadn't thought of it until U posted.


;) Personally, I think we humans (us humans?? I never could remember that one :oops: ) have it all mixed up -- giving the sex determination control to the guys! :giggle::rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by sweety314

;) Personally, I think we humans (us humans?? I never could remember that one :oops: ) have it all mixed up -- giving the sex determination control to the guys! :giggle::rolleyes:

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You women already get to determine WHEN the sex occurs, we have to be able to determine something. Besides, if we left it up to the women the poor kid would be switching sexes every 3 days throughout the pregnancy..;)

That was a good one !!LOL

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

You women already get to determine WHEN the sex occurs, we have to be able to determine something. Besides, if we left it up to the women the poor kid would be switching sexes every 3 days throughout the pregnancy..;)

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Bah! Hilarious!

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Originally Posted by Gecko Den

You women already get to determine WHEN the sex occurs, we have to be able to determine something. Besides, if we left it up to the women the poor kid would be switching sexes every 3 days throughout the pregnancy..;)

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Says who??? That wasn't the case where < I > come from! :( I dunno...maybe I was the unfortunate minority. Hmmmmmmmmm :confuzd:

Mendel, as an aspiring Biology Major, I'm really excited about that information. It sor of makes sense in a bizarre sort of way. -Hums.- Woot. Something to put in my notes for later.