What RTB should I choose?

I've been thinking for a while about an RTB and wonder if I could get any recommendations from you guys as I want to do this right. Currently my largest snake is a year old BP who is sweet and loves handling - but of course not as big as an RTB - nor will she ever be so.

Originally I thought I would really like a Suriname (true RTB - beautiful tail etc) but it seems they grow really big (10ft) and need two people really to handle them so I'm not sure now if I'd be OK with it (I'm a short female ;) )

I will keep whatever I decide in a 6ft viv eventually when it's bigger.

So what I want? Basically a nice-natured snake (I know there are no guarantees and I might end up with the pissiest one of a generally loving ;) species) that tolerates handling well. I'd really like one that tends to keep some of its red-tail coloring. The largest snake I've handled is a female 5ft BP - and she was easy enough - so I guess I wouldn't really be comfortable handling anything larger than about 7-8 feet. I've read here on this forum somewhere that BCIs have the nicest temperament.

A specialist reptile shop in London has some RTBs (he'll have Surinames later) so I'm thinking of going along and asking to handle some of the adults to get a hands-on feel for what it's like handling larger snakes.

Please feel free to throw your ideas at me - I need to get what's best for me and the snake.

If your concerned about size, I would recommend a Hogg Island Boa. They can be gorgeous snakes, but they're not what you'd call a "red tail". A male suriname may be your best answer, you'd have the coloration you want, and it probably wouldn't get much larger than 8 ft, and not as girthy as a female. In other words, more managable.

Personally I'd probably go with a nice male Columbian boa from a good breeder, not a pet store. As I understand it, this is the time of year for the boa's to start dropping their litters so the right time coming up to have a good selection direct from the breeders. There are issues with boas and boids being housed in the same collection so I'd be very careful of who I bought one from and also make sure it's a definite male. From what I understand Columbian males generally don't exceed 6 to 8 feet though they are a heavy snake so that's a lot of strong snake per foot LOL.

I can only tell you Raz from having Rauri in our home what our experiences are with him. He's extremely easy to feed with no obvious prey preference. He does however have an awesome strike range and being a 6 foot male that's not something to be unaware of come feeding day. He has never refused a meal, never cared if it was live or f/t, never regurged, never given us one issue regarding feeding. At his size and age he eats twice monthly for a total cost of less than $20.00 per month.

He is very easy to handle temperment-wise, not given to striking or being "nervy". On the downside of that he is a big strong male and will get himself into the wierdest places you don't think he can fit. Hauling him back out is work but surprisingly he doesn't seem to take offense at it LOL. He does like to climb however as well as drag some pieces of furniture around with him.

He doesn't defecate often but it's huge...so if big piles of poop might bother you....don't get a BCI (it's bigger than what my 65 lb dog did!). He also toots....LOUDLY....very loudly! LOL.

He's good around kids being a pretty laid back snake but again, this is 6 feet of very girthy, very strong snake so one can't ever forgot that and get lazy about safety for small kids and other pets. I don't think Rauri presents a huge danger when he's out but I tend to always err on the cautious side of things when it comes to handling him.

All I can say is we took Rauri as a rescue and are now firmly in love with Columbian boa's. He's been a wonderful snake and we'll miss him a lot when he heads to Texas. I don't know if Rauri is an exceptionally nice Columbian or just a normal one, but he's definitely a good ambassador for his species as anyone who visits us soon gets over their fear of him and becomes fascinated by this big gentle male. We figure he's about perfect....a big heavy snake but still not something that will get as too big for us.

Here's a view pics of him. I personally think he's very nice looking though my experienced with Columbians is very limited. His tail is quite pretty and when he's in his light phase his pattern just pops! Oh and he has the number 18 in his scale pattern lol.

Rauri's face
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...tfaceforum.jpg

Rauri's tail
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../rauritail.jpg

No. 81 - Rauri came with his own sports jersery number!
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/number81.jpg

Me sharing a laugh with the big fella
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../8/raurijo.jpg

Hope my babbling and so forth helped LOL

Temperament-wise it's hard to beat a colombian BCI! Since you're into color, you may want to consider a pastel BCI or a high color bloodline. There is a big range in color in the species.

Hogg island boas rock.. I have a female she's around 6' and probably will not grow much more. She is a bit skittish, and hisses a fair amount, but she is not aggressive. This is her.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../divafeb06.JPG

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/divahold.jpg

I have three surinam BCC. One is a juvenile female who is not aggressive at all, though she does get a bit nervous. She is still young though and I think she will grow out of it.

My male is a sub-adult.. around 5-6' and extremely laid back. He's wonderful.

My female is somewhat of a monster. She's 7.5' of angry, muscular boa. She hasn't actually bitten me yet, but she has come after me open mouthed. She is not easy to handle alone. I bought her as an adult, and she was not handled much when she was young, so I would say this is at least part of her issue.

This is my male suri.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/surimale.jpg

And the female
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...8/DSCN1356.JPG

I hope that helps.

Oh.. and consider the dumerils boa.. fantastic animals!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...atrixfeb06.jpg

Love Dums! Go with a dum! They are probably my favorite locale of boa.

Locale? Hmm... when I hear that word, I usually think of the same species.

Is that the right word? I think so. Ohhhh, you mean because they are BCOs not BCI or BCC, gotchya. ...Species of Boas. Better?

No, it's just that when people talk about Boa locales they usually refer to Boa Constrictors (new world), not the Dumerils.

Hog Island no doubt! Awesome snakes. Hey April, when can I send my Hoggie boy over there for a breeding loan..Oh what sweet babies they would make :)

Jo, I caught the shameless 8 Ball plug... :)

LOL just noticed! Funny when we got those t-shirts we seemed to wear them in every dang snake picture we took! I swear we didn't actually wear them constantly LOL

I did wear my black one out the other day to WalMart and I actually forgot what it says on the back LOL. Lord but this man in line behind me was checking me out and I couldn't figure out what was up. Then it struck me he wasn't eyeing my butt, he was trying to read the back of my shirt and my swinging ponytail was in the way! I finally told him what the t-shirt was all about (thank you Adam for the opportunity to use "that" word to a strange male in a WalMart line up!)

Sadly, he wasn't looking at my butt :sigh2:

I wear mine constantly! Go Adam!

Dumerils would not be a 'locale' since it is NOT a boa constrictor. It is acrantophis dumerili.. not a BC-

Jamie.. I really need a nice male hogg island! Most of the ones I see are ugly though.

Mine is a sexy one... :)

Great Boas you all have there!

You'll be happy with either a Dumeril or Hog, both great snakes!

That Hogg sure looks pretty :) It would also be the "half-way stage" between size difference for a BP and a suri. I also like the sound of the Colombians - they sound like sweet-natured (generally) snakes. Decisions, decisions - but I think I'll hold off on the Suri for a while until I'm used to handling an adult whatever I get :)

Thank you so much for your input everybody - I'll let you all know which I decide on.

Here is some pics of my babies.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88...es/Adrian2.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88...kes/Adrian.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88...kesFeb0514.jpg
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y88...es/Adrian1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Dumerils would not be a 'locale' since it is NOT a boa constrictor. It is acrantophis dumerili.. not a BC-

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Incorrect info here... a dumerils IS a boa. It is in the boa constrictor family, they are commonly known as dumerils ground boas. They come from Madagascar.
http://www.reptileguru.com/care%20sh...erils_boas.htm
http://lllreptile.com/info/library/a...ls-ground-boa/


On a further note, I have had the opportunity to handle a few of these wonderful creatures as adults, they are manageable IMO, mind you this is coming from a woman who is only 5 foot 3 inches tall (not very big at all). If I were ever going to get another boa, it would most definately be a dumerils ground boa.

I'd get the male Suriname I luv their color.I also luv Dumeral's , I've had mine for a year now most peacefull animal out there.The reason I don't have the Suriname is size but who know's what the future will bring.

Jim - are those Dumerils? They are gorgeous too - and your Dumeril is pretty too, Shelby - I like the diamond-like pattern going along their backs - sounds like they are nice temperaments too. And the Hogg Island looks sweet and still has a red tail. I do have this thing about red tails :wuv:


OMG - so many awesome snakes to choose from and so little room!!! :sigh2:

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

On a further note, I have had the opportunity to handle a few of these wonderful creatures as adults, they are manageable IMO, mind you this is coming from a woman who is only 5 foot 3 inches tall (not very big at all). If I were ever going to get another boa, it would most definitely be a dumerils ground boa.

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I've kept and bred Dumerils for quite a few years now. Male Dumerils are manageable at a length of 5-6ft and slender compared to females. Females average 5-6.5ft, but some individuals do get 7-9ft and are a handful for anyone, man or woman. With that said, their docile and calm nature is a pleasure to deal with on any basis at any stage. I've removed babies from 6.5ft females without so much as a hiss.

I also have a group of 1.3 adult Hog Island Boas and they are also a pleasure to own. My Hog females range from 5-6ft and the male is about 5ft and thinner than the females. I love the color phases with Hogs and look forward to seeing little Hogs slithering around a slimy cage soon. Hogs are incredible snakes in their own rights with their natural occurring colors of oranges, blues and greys.

Hogs bred with Salmons produce Salmon Hogs, which in turn are used to create Sunset Boas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

Incorrect info here... a dumerils IS a boa. It is in the boa constrictor family, they are commonly known as dumerils ground boas. They come from Madagascar.

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Nope, a Dumerils is not a boa constrictor. It is in the subfamily of Boinae, but it is not in the genus of Boa nor the species of Boa Constrictor. It has its own genus of Acrantophis.

http://www.embl-heidelberg.de/~uetz/...es/Boidae.html

Yes as I responded to your PM Jeanne.. a dumerils is not a boa constrictor although of course it IS a boa, and a constrictor. acrantophis dumerili is an old world boa constrictor, and not a new world boa constrictor proper.

Hehe - this thread is getting TECHNICAL!! :D

Anyway - I've been making tentative enquiries about the various types of snake I'm interested in and a boa breeder has gotten back to me regarding a Colombian and asking if I want a BCI or a BCC? :confused: I'm probably wrong but I thought that a particular species could only be either a BCI or a BCC ... which Make/Model should I ask for :confuzd:

Then why is it lumped in as [Common Group: Boa Constrictors]? I would think that the labeling of this snake would be different since it is "not a boa constrictor".

Then again, I guess it all leads back to another species that is referred to as a boa, a sand boa, yet it is not a true boa, it is a colubrid right? So in effect, would this make a dumerils not a true boa?

There are a few species even I have run across that I have to question the labeling due to confusions like this.

Go here:

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/com.html

That should give you the info you are looking for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razaiel

Hehe - this thread is getting TECHNICAL!! :D

Anyway - I've been making tentative enquiries about the various types of snake I'm interested in and a boa breeder has gotten back to me regarding a Colombian and asking if I want a BCI or a BCC? :confused: I'm probably wrong but I thought that a particular species could only be either a BCI or a BCC ... which Make/Model should I ask for :confuzd:

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The difference between the 2 is this:
BCI pattern looks like or close to ()()()()()() (little/few to no widows peaks) they stay a bit smaller than BCC

BCC pattern looks like this usually {}{}{}{} (has widows peaks) they are bigger than BCI, and I think it is these that retain their red tails more so than a BCI


But retention of red in tails may have something to do with genetics, local, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeanne

Then why is it lumped in as [Common Group: Boa Constrictors]? I would think that the labeling of this snake would be different since it is "not a boa constrictor".

Then again, I guess it all leads back to another species that is referred to as a boa, a sand boa, yet it is not a true boa, it is a colubrid right? So in effect, would this make a dumerils not a true boa?

There are a few species even I have run across that I have to question the labeling due to confusions like this.

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I think most of the confusion comes from the subfamily and genus both being named "Boa". The LLLReptile site does list it as a Common Group, which probably refers to the subfamily, but they should have listed it as just Boa and not Boa Constrictor which refers to the genus. :rolleye2:

I think a lot of the confusion with these names also stems from the fact that the words boa and constrictor are common words in our vocabulary and not usually thought of as "scientific" labels. Most scientific names of snakes have a distinct "latin" feel to them and are not part of our vocabulary at all.

Boa is the genus.
Boa Constrictor is the species.
Boa Constrictor constrictor is a subspecies.
Boa Constrictor imperator is also a subspecies.
Acrantophis dumerili is an entirely different species of boa and may also be written as "Boa Acrantophis dumerili" for a complete scientific name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

I think a lot of the confusion with these names also stems from the fact that the words boa and constrictor are common words in our vocabulary and not usually thought of as "scientific" labels. Most scientific names of snakes have a distinct "latin" feel to them and are not part of our vocabulary at all.

Boa is the genus.
Boa Constrictor is the species.
Boa Constrictor constrictor is a subspecies.
Boa Constrictor imperator is also a subspecies.
Acrantophis dumerili is an entirely different species of boa and may also be written as "Boa Acrantophis dumerili" for a complete scientific name.

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So then the BCC could also be written as Boa Boa Constrictor Constrictor. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

So then the BCC could also be written as Boa Boa Constrictor Constrictor. :)

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LOL...well, not by my understanding, but I may be missing something along the way.

I did make the assumption that Acrantophis is the species name and dumerili designates a subspecies of Acrantophis, which falls under the genus of Boa...just like the Constrictor species falls under the genus of Boa. But maybe I'm just confused? :rolleye2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

LOL...well, not by my understanding, but I may be missing something along the way.

I did make the assumption that Acrantophis is the species name and dumerili designates a subspecies of Acrantophis, which falls under the genus of Boa...just like the Constrictor species falls under the genus of Boa. But maybe I'm just confused? :rolleye2:

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No, they gave it a whole separate genus. Did you check out that link I posted earlier? If you scroll down, it gives a pretty nice diagram of the genus'. Acrantophis is the genus and dumerili is the species, it doesn't have any subspecies like the Boa Constrictors.

Here's our Surinam BCC, Carmen:

http://www.onlinethingy.com/files/gr...enpic2_big.jpg

http://www.onlinethingy.com/files/gr...carmenpic8.jpg

We had intended to get a male BCI, but things happen and Carmen won our hearts. =) More pictures of her soon...she's just recovering (and nicely, I do believe) from a recent de-miting...

As far as my understanding goes sand boas are true boids.. they are in the erycine family.

Another snake the 'new world python' or 'sunbeam snake' loxocemus bicolor is one that is NOT a python even though it is called one.

Another related instance is the calabar burrowing python.. which is also called a 'sand boa' at times. It is debatable whether it has any true boid characteristics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

No, they gave it a whole separate genus. Did you check out that link I posted earlier? If you scroll down, it gives a pretty nice diagram of the genus'. Acrantophis is the genus and dumerili is the species, it doesn't have any subspecies like the Boa Constrictors.

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I have browsed that site extensively in the past, but did not look at it this time to try and apply to what we're talking about here. I have a tendency to take what knowledge I have and try to apply a "logical understanding" to explain something. Most times it works out well, but sometimes I'm off the mark because I don't know quite enough. LOL

Wow, did I start this? Sorry, lol. Shelby hit it pretty good when she said it is an "old world boa". I have also heard them called BCOs in the past. ??? It all depends on what website you go to. Whew....

Quote:

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Jim - are those Dumerils?

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Why, yes, they are! High Pinks...whatever that means...haha. I will find a more technical name to that later today posted under this. LMAO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Wow, did I start this? Sorry, lol. Shelby hit it pretty good when she said it is an "old world boa". I have also heard them called BCOs in the past. ??? It all depends on what website you go to. Whew....

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BCO? Actually (Argh! I'm starting to sound like Cliff from Cheers. Somebody stop me!! :grabbed: ), BCOs are another sub-species of Boa Constrictor... Occidentalis. I think there are 10 subspecies of BC.

Quote:

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Actually (Argh! I'm starting to sound like Cliff from Cheers. Somebody stop me!!

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Haha, nope, I won't.

Go with the snake that makes you the happiest...it's scientific name doesn't matter. All that matters is you like him/her and you can provide the needs properly. Stay away from larger ones if you don't want a biggun (Suri's, Braz's, Guy's, etc). The smaller ones are just as pretty (Columbian's, Hogg's, Dum's, etc).
Good luck,
Jim

Correct.. BCO is boa constrictor occidentalis.. or the argentine boa. A large subspecies with little to no red color and sometimes high contrast black and white. One of my favorites. There is a T+ albino form of it that is quite lovely.

Let's see.. the BC subspecies (that I know)

BCI - imperator (colombian, central american, nicaraguan, hog island etc)
BCC - constrictor (guyana, surinam, peruvian [which often has no widow's peaks] etc
BCO - occidentalis (argentine)
BCA - amarali (bolivian/brazilian short tail some called 'silverbacks')
BCL - longicauda (peruvian longtail boa)
BCS - sabogae (pearl island boa)

Ok the ones I had to cheat on are:

BCN - nebulosa (clouded boa)
BCO - ortonii (orton's boa)
BCO - orophias (St. lucia boa)
BCM - melanogaster (black belly boa.. some say this is just a color variation of BCC)

Isn't there a "new found locale" out there from the Nicaraguan area? It's a boa and it's bluish colored. A friend of mine's girlfriend just bought a pair off the Barkers, but I haven't seen them yet. She said they are like a ground boa...

I heard of them.. they were on kingsnake. I'm pretty sure it's a new locale of a currently known subspecies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Haha, nope, I won't.

Go with the snake that makes you the happiest...it's scientific name doesn't matter. All that matters is you like him/her and you can provide the needs properly. Stay away from larger ones if you don't want a biggun (Suri's, Braz's, Guy's, etc). The smaller ones are just as pretty (Columbian's, Hogg's, Dum's, etc).
Good luck,
Jim

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Thanks, Jim :) and thanks to Jeanne for pointing out the difference between BCI and BCC - guess I shall go with a Colombian and decide which is more important to me - smaller size or brighter red tail ...

Raz, I just bought a Columbian in Dec, and he's a beautiful sand and grey, and I'm buying a pastel, with lots of red in the saddles and pink edging on her belly. < Her pic is on the albino boa website if you'd like to take a look at her. >


I'm also looking at the Hogs. I too am interested in the boas, but don't want the biggies. Wrigley's breeder also breeds Dums so I got the chance to compare the adults of both side-by-side. I'd personally chose the Columbian RTB (BCI) for the color, but the Dum for the adult size. ....But I'm partial to both, too. :D

Good luck in whatever you choose!

I have actually seen a couple of colombian BCI with widow's peaks, and plenty of BCC without them. There is a huge variation even within each subspecies.. there's something for everyone!

Also.. don't forget that dumerils can get big too.. this is my female, and she's not the biggest dum either!

She is VERY strong too.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../bellatrix.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelby

I have actually seen a couple of colombian BCI with widow's peaks, and plenty of BCC without them. There is a huge variation even within each subspecies.. there's something for everyone!

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There are also BCC and BCI crosses I think too. But Shelby is right, there is something out there for everyone, you just have to decide whats important to you.

Yeah there are crosses.. I personally don't care for them, but whatever floats your boat!