Possible theft/scam related to snake shipping

Being from Northern California, I tend to pay attention to stories about local breeders in this area. I came across this thread in the BOI a few weeks ago.

Then today I'm purusing the news on this site, and came across this.

What's that expression about Denmark again? :rolleyes:

http://www.ktvu.com/news/7965222/detail.html

Santa Cruz, apparently it might be linked to a shipping company? Or a packing company that then ships.
Quick warning to keep an eye out, and to watch who our California people use to box stuff.
Wolfy

You can call me inhumane, but the bastards that stole those snakes ought to be bound, gagged and fed to 25 feet long retculated pythons.

Just my 2 cents.

Apparently you didn't read my previous "gossip" post. I'm not so sure thieves had anything to do with it...

This thread looks related to one that was posted earlier about drama on BOI.

Look at names and prices used in the story and locations.

i just read the entire thread.

very interesting... i can't imagine why the shipper would not tell the receiver that this was an 'ongoing' problem himself if, in fact, it was.

sounds more like he's attempting to save his reputation after not fulfilling his end of the deal...

sad situation all around though...:(

The first snake was the one BOI is in question about. The $7k snake. The $3k worth of snakes is a second and more recent incident according to the article.

Lesson learned if you want something done right, do it your self.

i realize that... but if he did, in fact have it happen again a few days later... you would think he would have informed the first "empty box" receiver that it was happening!

He kind of did by saying that maybe a shipper took it. I don't care for his actions at all. Plus his statements on BOI do not correspond with his statements to law enforcement. I didnt see the news add the first time I checked this thread, only when Xdeus posted a second thread. I read BOI by then and when I read the news add my little brain went into over time.

What I find odd is that the box appeared to be completely intact when it arrived, including a UPS shipping label with the weight of the empty box. Hopefully the powers at be will get to the bottom of it.

This second "missing" box of snakes makes perfect sense to me. Especially after reading the whole BOI thread, viewing the pics of the original box, and an impunable witness coming forward who was there when the box was opened. If you read that thread, I don't think there can be any doubt that the box never had a snake in it. And then look at the time frame, from the later posts in the thread, its clear that the intended recipient is planning legal action. So, what does the shipper do? He sends out another empty box, then contacts the police, in an attempt to establish plausible deniablity. He says to the police, "I've already been publicly accused of defrauding one customer, I wouldn't be stupid enough to do it to another!" Just look at everyone's reaction to the info that another box arrived empty, people who were ready to lynch the guy are now reconsidering their opinion. Ask yourself this, if he really thought it was someone at the shipping store who took the original snake, why would he trust them with anything again? Especially UPS, which has a strict policy against shipping live snakes! That's why he couldn't contact UPS in the first place to start an investigation there, if he told them what was in the box, they'd pull his account and tell him to shove off. I may be completely off base here, but I can see twisted logic in the whole thing.

I apoligize and ask that this be removed by a mod. You are correct that I did not read that earlier thread, specicfically because it said "gossip" in the tag line. Should have read that first.
I go by the news services too much occasionally although I do take it all with a grain of salt. Currantly reading through the BOI listing.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I did not read that earlier thread, specicfically because it said "gossip" in the tag line.

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Similarly I am guilty.

"Gossip" deters me ;)

No problem Wolfy I just merged the threads (my first attempt and wow I didn't accidentally crash the site...whoohoooo go me! LOL) plus changed the title so both threads are reflected and so on and so forth and all that stuff. :)

The reason I put "gossip" in the title was because it essentially is. Most of it, including the news article, is based on heresay. I didn't want to turn this forum into the BOI, but I thought the thread in BOI and the news article posted on this site was interesting enough to warrant a thread. :evileye:

Hope the new title meets the general meaning of the threads. If not, please let me know and I'll fix it up again LOL (thanks for your patience with the new Mod on the block).

Aaaah thankye Jo!

I meant nothgin derogatory about the choice of thread title - only that the gossip/drama level I gots to contend with is such that if I can I will actively avoid getting close to any more ;) Not to detract from the issue at hand I now exeunt.

I just found an interesting "auction" on reptileauctions.com, labeled Super Pastel Ball Stolen! But it doesnt have anything to do with this. Still interesting since it is a super as well..

Oh, no it is a good descrption, I just was saying why I didn't happen to read it.
Thank you for merging the threads! You are such a good mod.
wolfy

In the end even if the snake was stolen from its box before delivery (which seems very unlikely even with the new events in the thread) Its ultimatly the senders responcibility to reimburse the reciever the money or the Cinny he was given in exchange as his policy on his website reads that he guarantees delivery. As such it doesnt matter if it was stolen, crushed, frozen, burned, misdelivered, or beamed to the Alpha Quadrent.... its his responcibility to reimburse the reciever.
Alot of professional traders and sellers in the buisness include provisions about delays and mishandling and temps causeing failure of proper delivery but his does not it simply states that he guarantees it so he should have been responcible in the first place and owned up to it. As it is it looks like legal action is going to be taken against him.

Aww nice of you to say Wolfy but just doing what The Mod Squad's supposed to do LOL I was more concerned I'd accidentally delete the whole deal and be running Matt for a quick tech fix-up!


I haven't followed this whole deal as much as I'd like to. Fauna BOI loads awfully slow for us dialup folks but in the end doesn't it all come down to doing your research as a buyer online, taking the time upfront to get to known your preferred breeder and just plain common sense. Maybe it's just me being me but I have a problem handing over our hard earned money to just anybody that tosses up an ad online. I'm not saying this is the case here, the buyer may well have done all he could but when it comes to purchases or trades, I guess I am just way too cautious maybe.

By the time we purchased Malachi, who in the greater scheme of things is not even an expensive snake, we knew Adam and his reputation well enough that it just never crossed our minds that anything would go wrong. If it did, we knew Adam would make it right - there was just no question of that. Heck if the snake wasn't in the box I'm sure Adam would have been freaking over the missing snake's safety as much as making Mike and I happy. Whether we spend a few hundred bucks or a few thousand, we'll always go with a breeder who cares that much about the snakes he puts in those shipping boxes.

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

I haven't followed this whole deal as much as I'd like to. Fauna BOI loads awfully slow for us dialup folks but in the end doesn't it all come down to doing your research as a buyer online, taking the time upfront to get to known your preferred breeder and just plain common sense. Maybe it's just me being me but I have a problem handing over our hard earned money to just anybody that tosses up an ad online. I'm not saying this is the case here, the buyer may well have done all he could but when it comes to purchases or trades, I guess I am just way too cautious maybe.

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The problem here, is that when that first guy in Kansas arranged a trade of a cinny for a super-pastel....the breeder in question HAD a good reputation. There wasn't any indication at that point that something this bad would happen. That's the thing that makes this particular case so interesting is that someone decided their reputation was worth $7500. Pathetic.

I also got a pair of het albinos from our very own Adam, and they are perfect, and he held my hand through all my agonizing wait as they were in transit, and has heard probaly far far more details of what they have done since, to be interested in hearing anything more ... ever. Unless they breed and hatch a purple snake out, I think he has heard enough of their details, but never complained and continues to give advice when asked, and patiently guides some of us newer people through things.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

and has heard probaly far far more details of what they have done since, to be interested in hearing anything more ... ever.

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No way!! ... I always love hearing about what's going on with my "kids" once I send them out into the world. ;)

When you produce albinos from that pair, I'd expect and "Adam" in the clutch. :P

-adam

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

I also got a pair of het albinos from our very own Adam, and they are perfect, and he held my hand through all my agonizing wait as they were in transit, and has heard probaly far far more details of what they have done since, to be interested in hearing anything more ... ever. Unless they breed and hatch a purple snake out, I think he has heard enough of their details, but never complained and continues to give advice when asked, and patiently guides some of us newer people through things.

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Hahahah! That is hilarious!

"Hey Adam, its me again..Sorry for all the voicemails. Just wanted to let you know the snake just pooped. It seems firm and looks healthy. I am going to take a picture for you in case......[PLEASE DEPOSIT 25 CENTS FOR THE NEXT 2 MINUTES]

Actually one of my others was named Adam, but in honor of Adam Savage from MYthbusters. He was totally hyper and seemed able to get stuck in the wierdest places, always falling off my lap etc. Stunningly accurate name for him.
I guess I will have to have a helpful nice intelligent snake to name Adam in honor of you.
LOL
w.

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

Actually one of my others was named Adam, but in honor of Adam Savage from MYthbusters. He was totally hyper and seemed able to get stuck in the wierdest places, always falling off my lap etc. Stunningly accurate name for him.
I guess I will have to have a helpful nice intelligent snake to name Adam in honor of you.
LOL
w.

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LOL ... or the biggest "dork" in the clutch. :P

-adam

Whichever one regurges the most?

My opinion on the whole thread on fauna is as follows.Thier never was a snake in that box when it was sent out.A buddy of mine(VARNYARD Bobby Hill) posted on that thread last night.He reminded everyone that the box only weighed around a pound(i think that is close).When they weighed the box it only left maybe a couple ounces that should have been the snakes weight.Also when the reciever opened the box he opened one side only as they suspected something was wrong.I think we all should get our shovels ready because the stuff is getting deeper as it goes:bonk: .

i think what's saddest about this situation is that the 'trust' for many buyers will be hurt. people who don't 'know' the breeder and have to 'trust' that it'll show up...

from what i've read, the 'seller' had an excellent reputation... no one dreamed this would happen with him... i do however, find it odd that the dr who was over at the 'buyers' home didn't speak up until days later... why not say in the beginning... dr owen and i opened the box and... instead of mentioning it later on. does make me suspect about the entire situation to be honest.

very sad situation. but the reality is... buyer beware on the internet. you never know when you'll get ripped off.

i'm just glad i have a great breeder within driving distance from my home!

(ps and jo... i wondered what happened to the other thread. i was subscribed and it vanished - just found this one now LOL)

just some gossip i heard, the buyer is supposed to be pretty well off and has no reason to lie or try to fraud someone, especially for that amount. just gossip!!!


vaughn

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Originally Posted by kavmon

just some gossip i heard, the buyer is supposed to be pretty well off and has no reason to lie or try to fraud someone, especially for that amount. just gossip!!!


vaughn

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I think we will be hearing this type of gossip forever:disbelief .Well i am going back to fauna to read up on the latest :rolleyes: .

This whole situation brings up a good point as far as trades. I might be faced with this someday, and I was wondering if there was any reliable way to trade between two parties that don't have much of a repuation yet? Could an escrow-type service be used? Or do you just have to trust people sometimes?

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Originally Posted by xdeus

This whole situation brings up a good point as far as trades. I might be faced with this someday, and I was wondering if there was any reliable way to trade between two parties that don't have much of a repuation yet? Could an escrow-type service be used? Or do you just have to trust people sometimes?

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Interesting question...I don't think aside from trust that anyone has come up with something yet.

i personally would take the time and build friendships/relationships with other breeders. the only people i would trade with, i would not even need a piece of paper. a handshake would be enough!


vaughn

It will be interesting to see what the investigation will turn up on the situation. Gawd what a mess!

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I was wondering if there was any reliable way to trade between two parties that don't have much of a repuation yet?

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Rabbits feet?

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Rabbits feet?

-adam

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Sounds about right. Judging from some of the threads on the BOI (including this one) it might be a good idea to hold onto those rabbits feet even with someone with a good rep. Amazing how an expensive snake can bring out the worst in people at times. :fart:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Rabbits feet?

-adam

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LOL...one of these days when I'm a big-time breeder (and you're a bigger-time breeder! LOL).....we can arrange a trade...and I'll send you a box full of rabbits' feet! :twisted:

I think communities like this help to breed (no pun intended) trust among each other. Of course, like you mentioned, once expensive animals become involved the greedy/evil/malicious side of some will come out. Hopefully as a community we can help to keep things honest.

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Originally Posted by JLC

LOL...one of these days when I'm a big-time breeder (and you're a bigger-time breeder! LOL).....we can arrange a trade...and I'll send you a box full of rabbits' feet! :twisted:

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That's good eatin right there. ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

That's good eatin right there. ;)

-adam

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ROTFLMAO! Crunchy!! :chew:

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Originally Posted by JLC

ROTFLMAO! Crunchy!! :chew:

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Good with some hot sauce. Hot sauce makes anything taste good. ;)

:fart:

-adam

what does ROTFLMAO mean? thanx

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Originally Posted by Regal Boids

what does ROTFLMAO mean? thanx

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These days, sometimes a quick google search can answer your questions ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ROTFLMAO

Amazing. ;)

-adam

What's a google? :popcorn:

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Originally Posted by xdeus

What's a google? :popcorn:

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ROTFLMAO! hahahaha!

Wow, I was just watching some Tivo'd news and came across this story from a local station in Santa Cruz. During the story they showed a clip of a couple of the breeders snakes. Kind of cool to see a Super Pastel and a Carmel on the local news. :teevee:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I think communities like this help to breed (no pun intended) trust among each other. Of course, like you mentioned, once expensive animals become involved the greedy/evil/malicious side of some will come out. Hopefully as a community we can help to keep things honest.

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Completely agree with you Jamie! I hope to one day do some trades with some of you fine folks, and this is a great way to not only make friends, but get to know each other and build our reputations along the way!

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(ps and jo... i wondered what happened to the other thread. i was subscribed and it vanished - just found this one now LOL)

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Acccck! Sorry Cass! :oops: