Rats Are Dying...

I found one of Regina's babies dead yesterday. I didn't know why so I stuck him in the freezer and cleaned the enclosure out thoroughly. This morning 2 more were dead and one of Frank's babies had died too. Does anyone know what this could be? They always have food and water so I know they aren't starving or anything. I always make sure they are living in sanitary conditions. All of my hard work is dying off before they're big enough >_<

how many baby did mother rat have? i have notice that if rats have more them 12 babys a few will die becouse mother will not feed them all! she dose not have enought nipps! and the runt will not fight for the food! i had one die last litter outof 18babys one mother had 5 and the other 13

Regina's babies have already been weaned. But that may be true for Frank's. Her litter was 10, so maybe it was just one of the runts. But still, they are only a week away from being weaned too. They've already starting eating food and drinking water. Doesn't make sense.

Well, possibly, if they are dying so close to being weaned, it may be a mega colon problem. Mega colon shows up in rats who have just been weaned newly or are starting to eat normal foods. Mega colon is genetic. Sometimes mega colon shows up rather late also... google mega colon and you will find plenty of info... or maybe Becky will come along and give you plenty of info. It may not be the problem, but it is a possibility.

Update:3 more of Frank's babies have died. And one was eaten completely. The only thing that was left was a bit of fur. Sick...

I read on mega colon, but Frank's babies are Alfred's and Regina's are somebody elses. Frank's babies aren't weaned yet and are only about 3 weeks old. I don't think this is it. I'm afraid to feed them to my snakes. I've frozen the dead ones just in case. Gah, this is depressing.

After the babies are weaned, or in the process of being weaned, do you notice them not gaining weight, having a rough haircoat, not very active, having runny stools that smell bad?

What are they eating? Are they getting a good, well-rounded diet and not just lab blocks? If they are eating just lab blocks, what brand? Do they get any grains such as the ones I specified in my rat food mix?

Is the mom rat stressed in any way? The baby may have died and the mom would have eaten it afterwards. It happens alot if a cagemate dies, or they may just bury him/her.

Do you have a male in with either of them? Back to back breeding isn't a good thing anyway and is very stressful on their bodies, resulting in longer gestation time and smaller litters/smaller babies. Have you had their feces checked for parasites? Sometimes an overload of intestinal parasites can cause the rats to become so anemic that they can die.

Hope some of those suggestions help, and I hope we can figure out what is wrong. It does sound like megacolon though, especially if some are dying off after they are weaned or close to be. 98% of the time it starts happening when the babies start eating solid food.

They seem to be a fair weight, not underweight, and their poo is definitely normal. That's why I didn't think it could megacolon because their poo is normal and they don't seem underweight. I dunno, if it is megacolon what should I do? And are they ok to feed to the snakes?

They get fed your rattie diet, with lab blocks included and sometimes I mix it up a bit with what they get. Alfred is kept seperate from the females until 2 weeks after their babies are weaned.

Oh Kelly what rotten luck to have this happen in both litters. I can't think of what could be going on here. Just more questions to try and nail down what it might be.


What caging are both litters and their mothers in? What bedding? Exactly how old are both litters and have you had any loss of young in either litter prior to these events? Are the dead ones just laying there or is their evidence of them being cannabalized or killed by their mother (I did see you mentioned finding parts of one...ick!)? It's very odd for rat females to kill their young once they've survived birth (at least in my limited experience) unless something is driving the female is cull her own litter. Figuring out what that cause is, is all I can think of. Personally until I knew what was up I wouldn't feed the dead ones but that's just me being my usually over-cautious self.

Just to confirm...each female is in her own enclosure with just her own litter (or what is left of it)? Are you seeing good mothering behaviours from these females (nursing, cleaning, licking the rat babies bottoms, etc.)? Are these two females acting oddly (more nervous, nippy, depressed or ill looking)?

So sorry for all the questions but something might click in one of the many rat breeders on the forum that could at least give you some idea why this has happened.

Here's a link I have on megacolon with pics and so forth. Wondering though if it was megacolon what the chances are you'd get it in both litters from different fathers bred to two seperate females? You said I think that the rats seem to be pooping but have a look at the megacolon pics and see if they resemble the dead ones at all.

http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php


~~Jo~~

-They are all on aspen shavings in 10 gallon aquariums.
-Frank's litter is 3 weeks and Regina's is about 4 1/2 weeks.
-In Regina's only one had been eaten by his fellow cagemates (just his head). The other two I just found dead. In Frank's one had been eaten completely and the other 3 were just dead.
-The females are with their own litter. Frank doesn't really do anything except sleep with her litter. All the other times she is sitting on a perch I made for her to try to cull her craziness. But she doesn't look ill. She may be depressed because she is sitting away from them. Regina is ok, but her babies are weaned.

I looked at the pics of megacolon, but this honestly doesn't look it. There is no bulging, no malnutrition or slow growth. The little guys just look like they dropped dead, like they're sleeping. I'm unsure what to do because I'm nearly positive it isn't megacolon.

Is it possible that some sort of chemical fumes got into the room? Enough to make the babies really sick, but not so much that it would kill adult rats? Has there been an exterminator in the house? Or something unusual got burned nearby? Anything at all sprayed near those cages? Or any other source you could think of for something toxic getting into the air? Or maybe ambient temperatures dropped too low and the babies didn't fare as well as the adults? I'm just thinking that from everything I've read, it sounds like some sort of environmental problem.

There have been no exterminators. They are kept in my room. I don't even let anyone burn candles or incense in my room because I don't want it to bother the snakes. My room is quite warm because it is climate controlled with the snakes. It could be something environmental, but I doubt it is fumes or cold temps.

Hmmmmmmm......it's quite a mystery. :( I hope we can figure it out!

Wow; I am really sorry to hear about your rats. Are they from the ones I gave you? All of mine are doing really well. I use pine shavings and feed mostly lab blocks and have never had a problem.
I think I may know the problem; I had a litter that was mysteriously disappearing like yours; every day there was one or two dead weanlings. They would sometimes be ripped apart and all showed signs of a violent death :( Well one morning I watched afer feeding, to see what was going on; three or four of the babies would grab onto one piece of food and fight horribly over it. This happened even though I had put enuff food in; more than one block pet ratling. This I am sure would have led to the death of one or two if I hadn't stepped in. They were just about ready to be fully weaned anyway so I took Mom out and split them into smaller groups in ten gallon tanks and they all ended up fine. I know I get away with using 10g tanks, but I think that for larger litters they are too small, esp. when the babies are mobile and ready to be weaned. You could try upping them to a 20 long tank; this is what I do when one of my mommas has a mega-litter.

You're probably right Jen. Only 2 of Frank's babies are alive now. I went from 16 babies down to 5 in a matter of days. Many of the bodies I didn't find because they had been completely cannibalized. I had 2 males and a female left from Regina so I split them and split the one male I had from Frank in with them. Hopefully the move will prove useful. I'm kind of depressed about it all. All this for nothing.

As for megacolon, it may be a possibility for Frank's babies because they are only 4 days younger than Regina's and are really small. I thought they were at least a week younger. Still there isn't any of the bulging.

Thanks for everyone who tried to help. I appreciate it.

Kelly, as Gin said, it may be due to having to many rats in the 10 gallon tanks. 10 gallon tanks are really not any good except for a single rat. Get some of those rubber maids like I am sure you have seen in other threads for this use, and use those instead.. when you use 10 gallon tanks, you have to have LOTS of them to not have too many housed together. I had not realised you keep yours in 10 gallon tanks, or I would have mentioned this sooner..sorry.

It's alright. It's too late to fix the problem now anyways. One of the remaining babies that I kept in with Frank and Regina's last female died last night while I was sleeping. The only one left from Frank's litter is a black and white male I put in with the remaining 2 males of Regina's litter. Not sure if I want to breed again. I'm a little discouraged but may just continue to take the failure as something to learn. Who knows. Once again, thanks for all the help.

It can be a tough lesson Kelly. Heck when I tried mouse breeding it was the most disgusting, depressing experience and I thought I'd done everything "by the book".

Gin and Jeanne are right about the 10 gallon tanks. I have only one left as I've changed over to a minium 50 qt rubbermaid. My only 10 gallon is reserved for one female and her young only up until they are fuzzies. As soon as they become active pups, even though still nursing, I move them to a bigger tub. As soon as Flash is done with her current litter of 11 (which are 6 days old) that last 10 gallon is getting retired. Won't miss it either they are way worse to clean than a way bigger rubbermaid or sterlite clear bin.

Maybe take a bit of a break. Set up some big tubs (tons of pics and stuff in the Feeder forum) and just try one litter at first. If you get a good result...then you can work up to a bit bigger colony as you gain experience and confidence. Remember too that some females do not make good mothers (it's more common in mice but still) so if you see a female showing poor mothering skills after a couple of litters....pull her out of the breeding pool as it's just a waste of time and money without a postive result.

Any help you need in setting up again (now or later on)....just let us know.


~~Jo~~

I do have a few 54 qt. rubbermaids hanging around. I usually just swap them in to the snakes that use them so I can clean the dirty ones. But I was told that the rats will chew right through them? Are you speaking more along the lines of the cement mixing tubs?

Some folks do use those Kelly. For my own reasons I prefer not to. Check the feeder forum for posts by me, Bdadawg, SnakeySnakeSnake and you should see very clear pics on how each of us do our rat tubs. I actually quite like Bdadawg's addition of the thin aluminium so I'll be revamping my own rat tubs (learn a new thing every day). You also see discussions on chewing issues, which tubs are best and a fantastic example (Bdadawg) again of the use of the huge Iris Xmas tree tubs as growing out tubs for bigger feeders.


You'll see things in our tubs like toilet tissue empty rolls, pvc pipes, etc. My theory (just my own take on it) is that rats are highly socialable, curious critters. In big clear tubs they can see out of, they can stand up in, lots of room to move about and scurry through stuff you give them, no overcrowding, lots of good food and water, bones, etc. to chew on....these things all should contribute to a rat that doesn't need to chew out. Why would it...it's living in rat heaven LOL!

All I can tell you hon is I have had mine in these tubs for awhile now with no attempts to chew out...not one from any age rat. I check the rats and their tubs twice daily just in case and to feed and water, etc. Once a week every tub is dumped, wiped and new aspen and whatever put back in. On that day I do a count of each tub and do a hands on check of every rat (takes seconds really per rat). Then I have a weekly total colony population count so I can see how the overall picture is looking. Everyday they get rat mix, fresh food (mostly kitchen leftovers) and fresh water.

Seems like a fair bit of work....funny enough it isn't. Once you have a routine set down, it's no biggie. I have 41 rats as of today (I'm not allowing new breeding right now as we are hoping to move in a few weeks). I probably spend about 20-30 minutes per day on rat care and feeding....on the weekend to do full cage cleans....alone it takes me about 45 minutes...with help much less than that.


~~Jo~~