What will happen when everyone realizes...

I was in a local pet store the other day....they sold a CH normal ball python for $70 while I was in there. I talked to the owner and she said that they had sold 4 that DAY....and always have people coming in wanting one...at least a few a week.....I live in a city with around 20,000 people and there is that kinda demand.

I also see ads on the classifieds all the time for very nice normal ball pythons selling for $200-$400....reduceds, high golds, blushes, ringers, etc...

I have talked to a few snake keepers and people interested in ball pythons that do not even know that ball python morphs exist....these people have no idea what a pastel, a mojave, or a caramel is....and when they find out about them they all want one...

Normal Ball pythons are HOT!!!! Ball python Morphs are HOT!!!

....that really got me thinking about the size of the ball python industry. All the people that talk about the industry falling have no grasp of the scale of the ball python market. Tens of thousands of ball pythons are sold EACH year. I would not be surprised if there are over a hundred thousand people in this country that keep ball pythons. A few thousand people on the internet that talk about ball pythons are a very very very small part of the actual industry.

What will happen when more reptile keepers and people interested in keeping snakes realize that ball python morphs actually exist. I can almost imagine the demand for ball pythons....it would be more than anyone could imagine.

LMAO....All we need is for Ralph Davis or any other 'big breeder' to do a TV show about ball python morphs on Animal planet, Discovery, or National Geographic...we would all have to get on waiting lists to purchase any morphs...

What do you all think?

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Wait until I am pumping out super pastels, bumblebees, killerbees, and albino pieds before you spread the word ;)



But my friend actually said the opposite to me today. We live in the chicago area, and he said, why are you getting into breeding. I dont know anyone besides you who has a snake, and who has the money to spend on a $200 snake anyway, let alone a $2,000 one.

I didnt have any GREAT arguments for him, but look how much people pay for pure bred dogs/cats etc

Well I know up here in the middle of nowhere northern Michigan if I walk into either pet store in town the most common snake to see multiples of are the cornsnakes but very closely followed by ball pythons and sometimes there are more bp's than corns in the stores. All this in a little nowhere area of northern MI...hmmm....makes one realize if there wasn't an interest the pet stores wouldn't bother to carry them would they. Of course I'd rather see those buyers going to a good breeder LOL.



~~Jo~~

One of the local reptile shops had around 120 normal babie Balls last year and they sold them for around $40 and last I was there there were only around 20 left. The guy doesnt relize how much they are really worth. All of the other pet shops want $120-200 for a normal. The guy at this one shop "says" he is breeding his het albinos and his het pieds. I just hope hes telling the truth, he was talking to a customer the other day about the price he would sell an albino for and he was wanting to sell them for $200-500. If he does produce pieds and albinos, I might just have to buy him out:hungry:. Luckily we know one of his best employees and he would hold some for us.:banana::headbang:

You always hear people 'worried' about the price of pastels.....LMAO....as long as normals are selling for $100-$500, I have no worries about pastel prices....

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

You always hear people 'worried' about the price of pastels.....LMAO....as long as normals are selling for $100-$500, I have no worries about pastel prices....

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I have heard people crying about the "great pastel market crash" for 3 years now ... because "everyone has them" .... funny, I RAISED my pastel prices in 2005 and I'm having no problems selling them ... crash my ace! ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

But my friend actually said the opposite to me today. We live in the chicago area, and he said, why are you getting into breeding. I dont know anyone besides you who has a snake, and who has the money to spend on a $200 snake anyway, let alone a $2,000 one.

I didnt have any GREAT arguments for him, but look how much people pay for pure bred dogs/cats etc

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Ask him how many people he really knows...knows well enough to be aware of what kinds of pets they keep. I would bet my next paycheck that its quite a bit less than 50 souls. And even if he's somehow super-popular and knows ohh....150 people well enough to know their animals.....is that tiny little view an accurate picture of the entire pet-keeping/animal-raising population around the world?

How many movie-actors does he know personally? THere are lots of them out there, even though we may not actually know one. Does he know any politicians? Does he know anyone who skydives? I don't...and who'd want to pay that much money to jump out of an airplane??? Makes no sense to me! :rolleyes: ....see what I'm getting at?

It just shows how extremely limited someone's world-view is, when they believe their tiny slice of a social-circle defines the whole of society. :disbelief

I'll tell you when BP prices are going to plummet...NOT ANYTIME SOON!! The duration of my 6 years in the pet store, we literally sold hundreds per year and they were $79.99!!!!! Once in awhile I would share pics with customers of pieds and pastels that I took at shows and they would say something like, "Is that really a BP? , or "I didn't know they came in that color!!" In my opinion, the average pet store shopper is completely ignorant of the whole "BP morph world", and a lot of these customers would definately pay big $$$$ for a "awesome looking snake" that their friends would be jealous of, and they would even boast the the price they paid for it. Of course, supply and demand rules apply to everything, so naturally the prices of morphs will gradually go down some over time. But given how much people are still willing to pay for just normals, I still see morphs holding value for a long time, plus add to the fact new "uncommon" or "brand new" morphs like blue-eyed leucys being added to the list every year or two only heightens the hype and demands for morphs. I always say, forget the dogs!!! Breed snakes instead! There's more money in it, plus you don't have to walk em and they don't poop or pee on the floor!!! Anybody ever heard of someone charging stud fees for a snake?? LOL!!!

Well...people talk about morph prices coming down as supply increases, that could happen. In the grand scheme of things, if more people start demanding those morphs, at the same rate they are produced, the quantity supplied and the quantity demanded both shift, which would not support prices coming down drastically.

Kevin from NERD was on a late-night show with Steve Irwin a few months back, and dropped a bag 'o morphs right on the desk. I think I saw an albino, a bumblebee, a pastel, among others. I think we need to see more of that, our "world" is very much so NOT mainstream.....I think getting the word out would attract a lot of new people.

Great post Daniel. The attraction to Balls (mine in particular. Ok I couldnt resist), is getting bigger all the time. We need to all be spreading the word everyday! I won't be satisfied until Ball Pythons replace dogs and cats as companion animals! Ok, maybe that was a bit much. I don't see the market crash anytime soon and as a new breeder, I am thrilled by the way the craze is growing daily.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

I think we need to see more of that

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I don't. Things are better under the radar. There's a lot of people out there that would be happier if no one kept snakes at all. The last thing we need is to be flaunting high end morphs in the face of the people that want to take it all away ... it will only fuel their fires.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it! .... The ball python market is kicking but!!

-adam

Never thought of it that way...but thats just sad that people are THAT close-minded. I'm an idealist, what can i say!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

I don't. Things are better under the radar. There's a lot of people out there that would be happier if no one kept snakes at all.

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I agree about the ignorant people, but I don't agree about keeping it under the radar. There is nothing productive about keeping people uneducated and perpetuating ignorance. Most of the time when I hear about a snake in the news is when one escapes or eats a cat, etc. Inevitably, the reporter will make some lame comment about how that 12' burm "can eat a small child". When was the last time you heard someone say the same thing about a labrador retriever?

Anyway, I think exposure to more pet-friendly snake species like a Ball will start to turn the bias around and you may see snake ownership more socially acceptable. This will help the industry as a whole (reptiles, not just balls), but more importantly it will help the quality of care for all reptiles.

I know, I'd be more frightend of a big dog with a bad attitude than a big snake with a bad attitude, the dog could kill me, the snake would probably bite me...once :D

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Originally Posted by xdeus

This will help the industry as a whole (reptiles, not just balls),

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I think there are a lot of ways that individuals can help the industry as a whole without making the general public (and the government) aware of the kind of money that is being moved around in the ball python world. Nothing good can come from putting ball pythons morphs (and the sums of money that they are selling for) in the public eye.

Make no mistake, the medias interest in ball python morphs will be the price tags ... and flaunting $30,000 morphs on the evening news isn't going to make people accepting ... it's going to make them jealous and bitter. We have enough "haters" among us already ... we don't need our neighbors joining the ranks.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Make no mistake, the medias interest in ball python morphs will be the price tags ... and flaunting $30,000 morphs on the evening news isn't going to make people accepting ... it's going to make them jealous and bitter. We have enough "haters" among us already ... we don't need our neighbors joining the ranks.

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I wonder. There are plenty of high-cost animals in the mainstream such as horses, birds, and fish. Obviously most people don't associate the casual bird or fish owner with owning an expsensive animal, so why would you think that would happen with Balls? If anything people might stop and say "Wow, I didn't realize a snake could be so valuable. Maybe I'll look into it more..." and the process of education and interest has begun. Of course you will have your percentage of the population feel envy and greed, but I think the industry as a whole would benefit in the long run. Actually, I believe it has started already. Reptiles as a whole seem to have surged in popularity in the last few years. Time will tell if it is a trend or just a passing fad, but I like to think much of it has to do with education and the diverisity of animals such as Balls that have piqued peoples interest.

yea theres allready a big market for snakes in the us! i went to texas expo last weekend and thay pack the place with 2000 people and its a small place!
my buddys sold 6k in hots! and yea there where people buyin them 1k-5k balls!

my self is getting into breeding boa's.... and mabie later in life breed the balls! but right now live birth seem the way to go!

not only that but i allready have my 7.5ft 22lb female boa that will be breed with a hypo male!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Make no mistake, the medias interest in ball python morphs will be the price tags ... and flaunting $30,000 morphs on the evening news isn't going to make people accepting ... it's going to make them jealous and bitter. We have enough "haters" among us already ... we don't need our neighbors joining the ranks.

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And what is to say that people watching won't say "Those animals are cool. Maybe I could get one and give it a go. That would be a neat hobby." ???

I would deal with a few more "haters" and "posers" in order to get some more decent people in this hobby. It would all equal out in the end.....like many have said, the 'haters' and 'posers' will fade eventually anyway.

All I know is a some people watching the news have no reason to get jealous or bitter because of a snakes price.....all they can do is want one.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

And what is to say that people watching won't say "Those animals are cool. Maybe I could get one and give it a go. That would be a neat hobby." ???

I would deal with a few more "haters" and "posers" in order to get some more decent people in this hobby. It would all equal out in the end.....like many have said, the 'haters' and 'posers' will fade eventually anyway.

All I know is a some people watching the news have no reason to get jealous or bitter because of a snakes price.....all they can do is want one.

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You're missing the bigger picture ... IRS audits, FTC regulations, neighbors finding out about 1000's of ball pythons in the basement of the house next store, health departments, zoning boards ... even if a breeder is completey operating within the bounds of the law, government organizations and general prejudice can make turn the hobby into a nightmare for everyone ... for what? So a few extra clueless people can jump on the bandwagon because all they see is $$$ on TV?

I just don't see what the problem is with the ball python world the way it exists now? .... There is plenty of sales so that everyone can profit. I think more people will come in time ... once morphs start hitting the pet stores ... not need to muddy the waters before then.

-adam

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I wonder. There are plenty of high-cost animals in the mainstream such as horses, birds, and fish. Obviously most people don't associate the casual bird or fish owner with owning an expsensive animal, so why would you think that would happen with Balls?

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Because a general prejudice exists in our society against reptiles.

You don't see legislation popping up against horses, birds, or fish do you? ... But the politicians pick on reptile owners because they know that the majority of their constituents have a fear/prejudice against snakes.

Also, you don't see the horse, bird, fish people on TV talking about how expensive their animals sell for ... they are smart ... everyone knows, but no one is overtly public about it.

I have no problem with promoting reptiles and morphs, but I don't feel that it can be done without some TV producer trying to capitalize on the price tags for rating and I think that leads to trouble.

-adam

i see the big picture now :D

But....won't all those things eventually happen anyway?

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

i see the big picture now :D

But....won't all those things eventually happen anyway?

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Not if we're lucky ... sooner or later the "mania" will die down and we'll fall into a nice pace ... it's happened in the exotic bird market and with any luck it'll happen to us as well.

Gotta shake the fly by nighters loose first ... then it's smooth sailing. ;)

-adam

The whole gov't idea sold me. They would love to have something new to tax. Adam has a very good point on that. Snakes are probably one of the most feared animals out there...and neighbors don't want a hundred or more in the house next door either. The govt in NY already proved they can do what they want because of a few incidences. Think of the dogs that attack children every year! They don't outlaw dogs in general, but they do snakes. Think of the insurance clauses that would arise from you having a snake in your house! Keep it where it is.

Jim,

If I'm correct, didn't they end up restructuring that bill to only include (as it effects us snake owners) large Boids (Burms, Rocks, Retics, Anacondas)? Also, is it a statewide ban or is it just NYC?

Statewide, and that was after a year or more of petitions and protests. They wanted to ban a WHOLE lot more than just the big ones. All pythons, BCIs, and some others that got over six feet too, but they ended up just banning those that got huge and almost all hots (only permit allowed now and that is impossible to get).

I was only trying to use it as an example though. It only proves the point more.

Also, how many dogs have bitten children? Certain types of dogs aren't banned. It's said it's the owners fault or the dog was neglected. Pit Bulls are a good example. In Syracuse there is at LEAST 10 or more pit bull attacks in the city alone a year...they aren't banned.

I dont think anyone will argue the fact that dogs, birds and cats are way more dangerous to humans (disease, bites, etc) than non venomous snakes. But they are accepted by people as "ok" pets to have.

I see where Adam is coming from, education and interest probably shouldn't be built on how expensive and beautiful the morphs are, but just by correct information and slow exposure, as it's moving now. By flaunting morphs it's going to upset people, as was stated before, making them envy those who can afford such a steep price tag for a beautiful animal. If people are upset, it's going to lead to more restrictions, which is bad for any of us. I don't see what the big deal is, reptiles aren't gross, most are cute, and they're cleaner and don't have to get out for hours of exercise, they don't poo all over the house, or chew you stuff...the list goes on.

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Originally Posted by Danielle(THM)

.... they don't poo all over the house, or chew you stuff.

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Funny story....before me and my wife moved into our apartment, we asked the owner if he allowed pets. He was like "Well, what kinda pets?"....I responded "some little 4' snakes"....He said "they are ok.....I will not have to worry about them pooping and peeing on the carpet and tearing up stuff"...LMAO...I really did not expect that kinda answer....but all is good :D

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Originally Posted by jim020cricket

Also, how many dogs have bitten children? Certain types of dogs aren't banned. It's said it's the owners fault or the dog was neglected. Pit Bulls are a good example. In Syracuse there is at LEAST 10 or more pit bull attacks in the city alone a year...they aren't banned.

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Yes, some dog types are banned. I was watching one of those Animal Cops show, and pits are banned in some counties in FL. I think in other areas as well, where dog fighting is such a problem. And you're right it's not the dog's fault, that was how they were trained. But you blame the animal not the person. I love pits. They have been some of the nicest dogs I've met. I don't see anyone banning those little nippy lap dogs, which are WAY more likely to bite. Anyway, I just figure if they can start banning some animals, then more and more will follow. I prefer to make my own decisions, not have the government make them for me. :evileye:

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I don't see anyone banning those little nippy lap dogs, which are WAY more likely to bite.

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I totally agree! I hate those f**** things! My daughter was bit in the face on Christmas night by a Min. Pinscher! 7 stitches in her perfect little face. I wanted to strangle everyone in the room. They were really lucky I wasn't there. It was her mother's turn to have her Xmas day and they were at her grandmother's house. They all swear that for no reason at all it just turned and bit her while she watching TV. Hatem Hatem Hatem Hatem. An old lady owned it and it had never shown any signs of aggression before this. Stupid dogs.

PS: Sorry this went off topic.

I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter. Poor little thing. Does she have a fear of dogs now?

My son was bit, by a neighbors Weimaraner. Stupid thing bolted out the front door and just ran up to my son and nipped him in the face. I was horrified. I'd never seen one of them bite anyone, but they were not well trained dogs. Fortunately my son was just badly scraped down one cheek, and didn't require stitches.

No fear now of regular dogs, which is "kinda" good. She hates little dogs though. I think she is more worried about me finding out she was around them though. MY worst fear is her face getting hurt. I think that is rubbing off a little.

it's funny, here in kalamazoo, mi it's illegal to own a snake of any size or species and city ordinance states that an officer of the law can confiscate any pet you own if they deem it to be dangerous...
my dad's friend is a seargant on the police force here so i asked why they made that law and he went on some rant about how big snakes ALWAYS get loose at some point in time and when they do they are a danger to society; but when i asked how many snakes he's seen at work and how many dangerous dogs he's encountered he had to admit that he's never once seen a snake and has required stitches on several occasions from dogs.
i say screw it, i'm never going to give police a reason to enter my home so i own them anyway.