Help me plan/setup a feeder colony? (rats)

I plan on getting 20 females in the near future, but I want to setup a feeding colony first so I dont go broke :)

For now, lets say I am feeding 20 females that way 500 grams each (though I may be getting 200 grams instead, which will be easier to start)


I was thinking of 3 1.3 setups, one aquired each week.

This way I ideally have 3 females producing each week, ~ avg 10-15 per litter thats 30-45 babies... I would need to let the babies get up to ~ 4-6 weeks of age to be proper size for feeding I believe, and I could rotate out/rest the females in the 1.3 setups in order to get the proper number of babies, and not end up overrun.


I would like to be able to feed off 20 appropriately sized rats each week.


Should I go with 10 gallon tanks, or cement mixing tubs with tops? How many of these will I need (obviously 3 for breeding, several for birthing mothers, and then a few large ones for the male and female feeder population to grow up)

I'm trying to figure out if this is something I will be able to maintain and exactly how much it will be costing me to feed them monthly.

Any help is appreciated, Ive read a lot of threads on here and this is how far ive gotten so far. I may have to add another 1.3 or 2 in order to allow mothers more rest.

Alternately you could just go with 2 colonies....colony A with a breeding male and say 5 females rotating in and out for breeding and colony B with another breeding male with his 5 females....still 12 adults but only two colonies to manage....then when it's time to pick a few females for next generation breeders (females start breeding later and stop earlier than males)...you can use your own younger females from colony A with the male from colony B...no excessive inbreeding that way.

I personally prefer the 50 qt rubbermaids...you do lose some space efficiency but they are bigger therefore hold more rats comfortably especially females with large litters to weaning age. I also prefer the clear view with them as I can visually check the rats without moving a tub. Really your preference though as long as the space is adequate for rats. I find 10 gallon tanks (I have only one left) are harder to clean...have more issues with smell especially with mature male rats and are just plain harder to clean and they realistically cannot comfortably hold many rats especially if one is a large breeding male. Plus you have to spend money or make metal water bottle covers as you can't just melt a hole for the water spigot to feed through like you can on plastic tubs. Just my take on it though.

If you went with 2 colonies I figure you'd need....

2 tubs for the males and whatever females you are cycling in for breeding (I'd probably cycle in no more than 3 at a time depending on size of tub)
2 tubs for females waiting to breed for both colonies (once the first group show pregnancy, cycle them out, freeing up these tubs to become maternity tubs)
4 more tubs for maternity (one mother and her litter per tub)

The racks I buy from WalMart for my 50 qt rubbermaids hold 4 tubs per rack...each rack costs $17.88 and snaps together in about 5 minutes.

Depending on your litter sizes and what you feed off you'd need at least two feeder/grower tubs (1 for males, 1 for females over 5 weeks of age). Depending on how many you need to grow out you may want to look at large long rubbermaid or sterlite tubs so crowding won't be an issue as they grow or have more than 2 feeder grower tubs running

With two colonies cycling...you'd have either 4 or 6 females birthing at any given time....with an average litter size of say 10 (usually more though)...that is 40 to 60 rats being born on any given cycle

If you wish to rest your females (I do and think it helps them birth even stronger litters each time) you'll need a tub or two for them to hang out in.

The initial cost is a bit but over the long haul as long as you don't mind cleaning tubs it's rewarding & fairly cost effective (least I think so) as well as having the benefit of knowing exactly what quality of prey your snake is getting. Another very nice thing is if your snake refuses...you just pop the rat back in to grow another week...no refreezing or waste of a prey item.

Hope this helps somewhat.


~~Jo~~

Thanks Jo! I knew I could count on you giving a very helpful response.

I'm not worried about the expenditure starting out as I know it will pay off in the long run.

As far as those tubs, will I have to worry about them chewing out of them? I can place airholes in the lid tops that way they have no easy way of chewing, but I figure the spot where the water comes in will be susceptible to attack.

I currently have 1 male and 1 female. I bought them from the local pet co and wasnt too impressed with the health/quality of them, but that could just be my narrow view on it. Should I try to purchase another 9 females and 1 male from there? Or are there often local breeders I can pick some up from?

As far as feeding goes... how do you go about controlling feed into a large tub with 40-50 growing rats? Is it just that some will get more than others, or that it will balance out over time?

Is the most cost effective bedding a large back of aspen or something similar? I was using care fresh but that was low-volume.

Another thing, will I need a few extra tubs to transfer them into as i clean out the big tubs weekly? Im guessing the best way to take c are of a tub with dozens of rats in it is just completely remove all the bedding as soon as it needs it.


What kind of racks do you use? the plastic snap together stand ones?

Thanks again!

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As far as those tubs, will I have to worry about them chewing out of them? I can place airholes in the lid tops that way they have no easy way of chewing, but I figure the spot where the water comes in will be susceptible to attack.

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Just melt the hole no larger than the spigot to the water bottle or feed the water bottle in throught the top mesh insert (pic to follow re the mesh insert). You always have to watch for chewing with plastic but I keep chewing issues down by giving them stuff to chew on like toilet or papertowel tubes.

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I currently have 1 male and 1 female. I bought them from the local pet co and wasnt too impressed with the health/quality of them, but that could just be my narrow view on it. Should I try to purchase another 9 females and 1 male from there? Or are there often local breeders I can pick some up from?

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All my original breeders came from a local pet store. Be picky. If you aren't happy with the 2 you have now find another pet store or ask around about rat breeders but if they are breeding for show/pet they most likely will not sell you breeding stock for feeder breeding. I try to buy breeding stock during different weeks at the pet store or from different stores to get more genetic diversity (most pet store rats are inbred enough as it is). Like any foundation breeding animal you want the best for your buying buck even if it's a $3.00 rat.

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As far as feeding goes... how do you go about controlling feed into a large tub with 40-50 growing rats? Is it just that some will get more than others, or that it will balance out over time?

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I don't have a tub that would ever hold that many rats. Haven't a clue how bigger breeders do it as far as max numbers per tub. Remember that rats are social creatures but will not do well in overcrowding so you will end up as my granny said "cutting off your nose to spite your face". I would rather go with less rats per tub and more tubs. Divide them by sex, feed them lots, give them stuff to chew on, if you notice a few getting a lot bigger than others...pull those out to another tub to allow the smaller ones to get a bit more in the chow line. I personally don't notice any huge size differences though of course there's a normal difference in rats from the same litter.

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Is the most cost effective bedding a large back of aspen or something similar? I was using care fresh but that was low-volume.

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I prefer aspen....especially for breeders as they will be with you for quite a long time...others use pine. I know Becky gets a killer deal on huge bags of aspen at TSC (Tractor Supply Company). Aspen always come compressed so don't be fooled, even a smaller bag goes a long way once you break it up.

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Another thing, will I need a few extra tubs to transfer them into as i clean out the big tubs weekly? Im guessing the best way to take care of a tub with dozens of rats in it is just completely remove all the bedding as soon as it needs it.

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Again, I just have one breeding colony so anything I say is based on that experience not a bigger setup (though I will be doing my 2 colony idea soon). I have big buckets with lids (holes melted in). Home Depot for instance sells them cheap...mine are from dry laundry detergent from WalMart...I just washed them out well. Rats go in the bucket...lid snaps on securely and bingo bango...clean tub...rats go back in...bucket get rinsed and left to air dry. Females with litters I do differently...the female goes in a small container...the babies I take out...count, check for health and signs they are nursing well...then they go in their own small container (bunch of old big margarine tubs LOL)...same deal for cleaning then mother and young are back in their clean home. I like checking all my rat young each cleaning day (Sunday) so if I have any non-thriving I can cull or deal with issues prior to weaning.

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What kind of racks do you use? the plastic snap together stand ones?

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https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...atShelving.jpg
Very easy to scrub when needed....holds one 50 qt tub per shelf (almost holds 2 side by side but not quite...darn it LOL)....nice and sturdy...they are actually meant for pantry type shelving...here's the specs:
DuraShelf (#9144), 4-Tier Free Standing Shelving Unit, 300 lb capacity (75 lbs per shelf), no tools required to assemble, hard white plastic, 35.25" wide x 14.25" deep x 55.25" high- $17.88 WalMart


https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...owballsTub.jpg
The tubs I use....note the green wire insert (and hugely preggie female lol)...just some spare stuff I had...what I have to use on any new tubs I make is 1/2" (19 gauge) hardware cloth (galvanized wire)...I got my roll at Home Depot...2' x 5'...$5.98...grab a bag of good zip ties there too (couple of bucks)...some tin snips/wire cutters and you are good to go...you just cut out a good size rectangle in the lid...lay in the mesh overlapping the cut edges a good inch or so...melt in some holes with your handy dandy soldering wand and zip tie the mesh down tightly....excellent ventilation. I did add some side holes to my tubs as my current rat room has crummy ventilation but it does heighten the risk of chewing so try to avoid that (so far none of mine chew but still...extra worry). The tub specs are:
Rubbermaid Latchable, 50 qt, clear - anywhere from 5 to 8 bucks depending where you get them or if they are on sale. They are good tubs but have a slight give at the corners to treat that like you would a snake's rubbermaid tub...binder clips, weight on the ends, whatever works for you.

Lordy I wrote a book LOL. Hope that answered your questions thus far. There's a lot of ways to breed rats, mine is certainly not the only way. I feel I've had a lot of success but so do many folks who use different methods or equipment. All I can tell you about is my choices.

~~Jo~~

Jo, you might think about condensing this down into a "Rat Colony DIY/FAQ" thing that can be put in the DIY/FAQ section thingies...=) Such great info!

I think I will have 6 maternity tubs... Im guessing most rats get weaned at earliest 3-4 weeks, so all ratlings up until 4 weeks of age will be in maternity tubs (which should be 60-80 rats if not more) and then use the extra holding tubs for aging them (like fine wine :)

Thanks for all the ideas Jo, definitely helping me come up with a manageable response to this when I was overwhelmed at first.

Am i missing anything from this list?


Number of Breeder Rats to start: 2 males, 10 females. Separated into two colonies.



Number of tubs. 2 for breeding(2-6 rats), 2 for holding female breeders(1-2), 4 for maternity(mother + 10 babies), 2 for males(10-20 each) 2 for females (10-20 each)



Water Bottles: 12 bottles

Food Bowls: 16

Misc: Wire mesh, Zip ties

Bedding: bulk aspen or pine

Food: bulk food mix http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28391

And lab blocks included.



Rat Rack: Enough racking area to hold 12 tubs

Soldering iron

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../8/ratrack.JPG

I think that is what i will do for a rack. Painted with a few coats and it should be pretty easy to clean up. Shouldnt be more than $30-40 for parts and will hold 12 tubs.

Total structure would be 8 feet long 4 feet tall and 2 feet deep.

2 breeding tubs, 2 female holder/fallback maternity tubs, 4 maternity tubs, 1 tub for 4-5 week male feeders, 1 tub for 5-6 week male feeders, 1 tub for 4-5 week female feeders, 1 tub for 5-6 week female feeders.
~$40 rack
~$60 tubs
~$24 water bottles
~$10 food dishes

$134 + food = rat factory hopefully :)

+60 for 12 $5 medium rats :)

You forgot the initial rat cost. :)

Great plan, and I would like to say excellent thread! I would love to see this turn into a sticky as well.

Jason

I run 3 colonies.

Each colony is 1:4 with one female always cycling out (so it would really be 1:5). My breeding stock was purchased from 5 different sources to ensure good genetic viability.

Bereder adults are kept in the Super Pets Cages Think they are 18"t X 24"w X 30"L. Once they are visibly pregnant they are moved into birthing enclosures, these are 96 qt "rubbermaid snap toppers". I cut out the majority of the lid with an electric saw ... put in hardware cloth, and on the inside (where the rats can chew at it) I put in 1.5" 1/8" thick flat aluminum. That was riveted to the top of the lid. Bottles are either the hang on type or the Lixit bottles you screw to the cage. Pictured here are the breeding enclosures and how I made the lids. I must stress that I looked through 20 different tubs to find ones with straight sides (no lips no projections etc anywhere in the tub that the rats could get a bite on).

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ap/pregenc.jpg

Here is bottom sides of the lids

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...Pregenclid.jpg

I have 7 of these enclosures I normally only use 5-6 at any time. The other ones are always ready to go. When cleaning day comes I switch the rat with babies into the already done tub and put on her lid. The lid and bottle follow the rat. The tub changes every 5 days. When all the ones with pups are done I put the rats in other setups into one of these enclosures while cleaning their enclosures, then transfer them back.

Here are 2 of my grow out enclosures ... One is a christmas tree tub with the same lid conversion. This is for 7 week plus juveniles. The second is a 55 gallon aqauarium for 4-6 week juveniles. PVC "runs" have been added to both enclosures to maximize space. I also add applewood drilled and hung on copper wire for chews. Mostly they use it as roosts.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...7wkplusenc.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2.../3to6wkenc.jpg

Bedding is where I pay the most money. I cant yet find aspen in quantites I need. So I use a 50/50 mix of shredder newspaper and cardboard, mixed 50/50 with aspen. This provides fluff, soft bedding, good absorbency, low smell, and a good composting material. 80% of all waste from the rats goes into a compost pile, my garden, my worm bins, or is given away as compost. I still have to "rent" an extra garbage can for waste. This is $7 a month.

Ive found that making sure the rats are temp controlled makes a HUGE difference. Above 76f and they drink alot of water and produce more urine (more smell). Under 65f and they are fairly inactive. I try to keep between 68-72f. Heating, Cooling, Electricity, and water bills have went up about $20 a month (total for all).

My next biggest cost is feed. As im in an agricultural area I feed Sueebees Mix. Nutro Natural For seniors ($34 per 50 lb bag), whole oats, tri-color pasta, grain waste, cereal (mostly cheerios and Total), dried fruit, fresh veggies or fruits nightly, chicken and turkey bones, and some assorted "treats". This all comes out to about $40 a month (I dont currently use a whole bag of dog food a week.) I prefer this diet because I can adjust it instantly to suit the needs of the rats (i.e. A smaller rat with a large litter will wear out fast, I give them more of the pastas and cereals for prolonged energy and to help them bounce back faster)

I spend at least 1 hr a night checking on them, watering, changing water, checking for illness, and preparing diet. Every 5 days (cleaning day) I spend 3 hrs cleaning enclosures, runs, water bottles, nests, etc. Anything that wont fit into the dishwasher gets a bleach wipe down.

Sick or injured animals are quarantined in an entirely different room. I have 4 quarantine cages. Seldom have anything go in there ... but its better than having a whole colony go down with a RI.

At any given time I have 70 pups between pinkies and 5 weeks. Trying to decide at which point they go into the Co2 chamber is a hit and miss scenario. Most of my needs are for pups under 10 days (thats also what I sell the most of). However whenever I put down a large chunk of hoppers I usually get a call for smalls.

Think that covers most of my monthly operating costs. I wish I had gone with a Pro rack system with auto waterers and feeders. That may still come at a later date.

The last thing is if not in rack systems your breeders should be at least had tame as you will be moving them around. I hate it when I have to decide wether or not I need to go get stitches cause one of my females just bit all the way to the bone.

Bryan

If I could make a suggestion...Get your males from a totally different area than your females. Different pet stores or something. A lot of breeders don't care if they inbreed their rats. This way you would be a little safer.

Thanks for the post Bryan! Lots of great information in there for me to sort through and use.

About females biting you to the bone (ouch!) Do you use gloves for females with litters that might be a little fussy?

Are most of your rittens weaned by 3 or 4 weeks?

Also, who do you sell your extras too? That is one concern I have , if i get too many and my population gets too large for what i need

I do have gloves that I am supposed to use when I work with the rats, however you can tell alot more about the rats by feeling them with your hand (deformities, pregnancies, heartbeat, breathing, etc.) so I normally go without gloves. Most of my females have no problem with me reaching in to check out their litters. Of 25+ females Ive only had a problem with 2 of them. They were euthanized, and their litters split up between other litters.

My personal feeling is that you lose alot of size trying to wean them at 3-4 weeks. At 4 weeks the mothers and pups are moved to the first grow out enclosure. They are then weaned throughout the 5th week. Some females are really good about kicking them off the milk at 4-5 weeks other ones Ill manually remove for increasing amounts of time. Immediately weaning pups is pretty hard on the females ... they are still producing the milk and nothing there to take it. This is why I usually wean over a week.

Bryan

I did a few searches and couldnt find the rat pro rack you are talking about, do you have a link or site for it?


with 3 1.5 setups, perfectly spaced out, that would mean that each female's pregnancy/birth/weaning cycle takes up 3 weeks (gestation) + 5 weeks (nursing), so each female has a litter every 8 weeks, which means out of 15 females, thats about 2 litters per week on average?

I forgot that with the nursing each female is out of it for a while, i may need to
ramp up my plans a little to get enough throughput.

May I say how impressed I am Bryan with your tubs and setup. You'd be the one to do any write-up on rat breeding and setups...wow! Very nice and appropriate for rats. I bet you're getting some great results with little loss.



~~Jo~~

Heres the link to the racks I wish I had http://www.freedombreeder.com/cage.php?catID=2.

Extras can be fun to try and sell. I have worked out with a few pet shops to supply their frozen rodents (usually for store credit). When I have more than they need I put out a couple ads locally and on the internet. And If they are nearing the 2.5 month mark then Ill donate the frozen ones to a bird of prey rescue, zoo, animal shelter, or reptile rescue (makes a nice little tax write off).

My litters average 12 pups. At 2 litters per week im easily able to produce 20 a week. 3, 1:5 colonies would probably be just about right for needing to feed off 20 a week. Hard part is ramping up ... you are having to buy the rats to feed your snakes knowing the whole time that in 2 weeks youll have all they need. The other hard part of ramping up is working with first time rat mothers. While alot of them are good mothers from the get go you get some that dont want anything to do with them. Most of the problem ones are better on their second litter ... some just dont ever become a good mother. These ones you can take the babies about after birth and give off to other mothers, or if there is a need for pinkies use them for that. I usually give the mothers 4 hrs after birth to get settled in ... If they havent fed in that time they probably wont, much longer and you may lose the entire litter. Try to give to a female that his given birth within the last 2 days so there isnt a large size difference in the babies. I also try not to ever give any mother rat more than 18 pups total. Ive found that more than 18 really wears the female out. You can visibly see them lose weight daily regardless of feed.

I lose very few rats ... the ones I do are usually stillborn or squashed by the mother, If i find stillborns and squashed I throw them away. Having no idea why they died, its not a good practice to offer them as feeders (there may be something that could affect the animal eating them).

Thanks for the compliment Jo.

Bryan

Again, great info! thanks bryan

Heck I'm taking notes Bryan LOL. I like your idea of staged weaning and will definitely incorporate that into my routine with the colony.....makes so much sense I could kick myself for not realizing it (after all I nursed my own kids and know that abruptly ending nursing is not always a good idea for mammals LOL).

The Freedom Breeder rat racks are nice but at that price I'd be breeding a lot of rats to even get to the break even point LOL. Nice if you have the spare cash or are doing it on a large scale. For my little home breeder/feeder project...no where near feasible.

I always pair of my females so they go in with the breeder male together and generally birth their litters within a day of each other. I've only had to foster once for poor mothering (she refused outright to have a thing to do with her pinks) and once recently when I took in a preggie pet store rat and she nearly bled out delivering. Her pinks are with my albino female and the pet store female is doing very well without the strain of raising them.

Quick question here....do you think female rats exposed to multiple males (as this pet store rat was) can conceive from different breedings? Just odd that her litter (what survived of it) seems to be made up of rat pinks that are radically different....color wise and a HUGE size difference. Of the 6 surviving pinks I have 2 that are identical and big, 4 that are husky markings like the female and are the same size but probably 30%+ smaller than the other 2. I've never seen this size difference in any of my litters. The 3 pinks that did not survive birth and were born first....were all huge like these 2 monster pinks. Could there be two males involved here or something?

I don't use any pinks that don't survive birth, though out of 78 born since early December we've lost only 1 at birth (not counting the mess of the pet store female's birthing). I've had only one female refuse her litter and she did get fed off after I caught her. She jumped out of the tub when I was feeding her, to avoid the pinks I assume, and it took me three days to track her down!

It did take me 3 males to find a good breeder...the first was too old or infertile not sure, the next was okay but vicious with the females, I had females slashed by him....he met Rauri the BCI real fast....the big black hooded we have now (Casanova) is great....produces good offspring....breeds the females but is not aggressive to them or to me. He's currently hanging out with some of his male offspring for company as we are between available females. He's very good with the young males and lets them bounce all over him like a furry trampoline. It is quite funny that he's so big and they immitate him....he'll start to groom and a few of the boys (who look so like him) will line up and groom madly right beside him LOL


~~Jo~~

I agree on the freedom racks ... they are expensive ... but I can still wish I had them ::grins::. Basically I was in the same situation, for the number of rats I work with it wasnt cost effective.

I have seen what you mention in the rat litters. Quite a few animals are able to reject, accept, or hold onto sperm for a time. I would think that there is a good possibility they can have multiple fathers in one litter, but I have seen genetic holdbacks in dogs and cats, and would assume this is probably where the difference in the litter lies (generation skipping or recessive genes).

Bleed outs on females tend to be if they havent had a litter before 9 months old. At 9 months their pelvis fuses, if they havent had a litter before that time, it will fuse constricting the birth canal. Males not bred before 9 months tend to "forget how", not care, or go infertile.

Most females are bred for 9-12 months. Once litter size drops below 8 for 2 straight litters they are euthanized. As I dont have any snakes that eat this size these are the ones that are usually given away for tax purposes (My largest is eating 2-2.5 lb rabbits, the next largest is on 2 week old rats). Males kind of come and go.

My best and 2nd best males are actually on "stud loan" right now, this is done more to promote "good feelings" than anything else. The best is being bred to some blue agoutis (pets) about an hour drive south of me. The second best (and best female) are being loaned out to a school (along with a cage) for educational purposes. These particular rats are good mannered, dont bite, and dont mind being handled. I probably wont get these back but it does get word of mouth out in my community, and have consequently been able to sell some of my "pet colony" and a few cages.

Bryan

Hey Bryan, Im having trouble finding strips of aluminum anywhere. May I ask where you found those? Home Depot and Menards claimed they didnt have them. I also havnt found the mesh yet (but I didnt ask anyone in HD yet).

Thanks!

Home depot always claims not to have hardware cloth ... go back to the chain fence section ... youll find it there. The flat aluminum I have found at both a local hardware store (more of a farm hardware store) and home depot. I think you have to ask for flat aluminum. It is normally located near the channel iron and rebar.

Bryan

Here's what I got from Home Depot (dang they call it hardware cloth how silly! LOL)

Hope this helps. Mine cost me $5.98 for 2' x 5'. Found it in the same area as fencing supplies.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ClothLabel.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...mHomeDepot.jpg

~~Jo~~

Ok.. 1/4 racks done. I used 1/2 crappy plywood and I probably would have used mdf if i had the choice again (plywood was $12 for an 8x4 sheet, MDF like 15).

Ah well. :) Its for rats, and its plenty sturdy for them

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...oneRatRack.jpg


Leaving the area underneath empty for storing bedding, food, etc

Hey I use a plastic, snap together shelving unit that costs under $20.00! LOL I think your rack looks just fine. The rats care more about what's in the tub anyways, they could care less about the rack as long as it doesn't fall over and works for you go with it. Only suggestion I have since I've spilled enough aspen or rat mix in my time, is to find a low cheap pan of some sort for under the rack to put your spare stuff in....ideas might be those huge toss out aluminium pans for big turkeys....cheap low sided big sterlites...whatever fits the dimensions under there. Loads easier to dump it if you make a spill and I'm all for clean, efficient and cost effective when it comes to rat colonies.

Btw it's really wierd to participate in a thread with two people both named Bryan LOL. Bryan (Bdadawg) do you ever get the feeling that Home Depot, as good a store as it is, hires people who seem unaware they actually work in a home supplies/DYI store???? Drives me nuts LOL


~~Jo~~

Its normal in a large store to have high turnover ... especially when the pay isnt that great. I normally assume that they have what I want and just keep asking questions til I get to the right area. At that point I make sure to point out that they do in fact have what I wanted.

Having 2 BrIans is unlikely but having two BrYans is even rarer. I have found very few people that spell it with a Y.

After seeing the shelving he built it reminded me that you can buy almost that same setup for about $20. Its made out of 1x3 or 1x4 instead, 6ft tall, 18" deep, 2ft wide.

MDF isnt a great wood if its going to be used in moist or wet conditions. Water will cause it to swell and become useless. You may want to add some 1x2 supports aacross the front and back of your shelving to decrease any sag when the tubs are full.

Bryan

Bracing would probably help stability quite a bit.

Being a California transplant, I see that shelving unit and think "hmm, he really needs to wire it to the wall in case of earthquakes..." :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Bracing would probably help stability quite a bit.

Being a California transplant, I see that shelving unit and think "hmm, he really needs to wire it to the wall in case of earthquakes..." :rolleyes:

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It is pretty stable, and minimum sag with full tubs. I will probably tie it to the second rack to make it more stable.... and if i have problems go from there

cheap = win

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Originally Posted by Bdadawg

Its normal in a large store to have high turnover ... especially when the pay isnt that great. I normally assume that they have what I want and just keep asking questions til I get to the right area. At that point I make sure to point out that they do in fact have what I wanted.

Having 2 BrIans is unlikely but having two BrYans is even rarer. I have found very few people that spell it with a Y.

After seeing the shelving he built it reminded me that you can buy almost that same setup for about $20. Its made out of 1x3 or 1x4 instead, 6ft tall, 18" deep, 2ft wide.

MDF isnt a great wood if its going to be used in moist or wet conditions. Water will cause it to swell and become useless. You may want to add some 1x2 supports aacross the front and back of your shelving to decrease any sag when the tubs are full.

Bryan

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yeah that setup would be decent too, but these can only be 4 feet tall (6' basement and tubs are 1 foot tall ~ ) and these are about twice as wide.... I considered going with the walmart rack, but for how many of these Im making, it will cost ~ $10-15 per rack(so 50 or so for all 4) and hold 24 tanks easily, and have storage underneath)

Have about 4 tubs fully done now, with bottle attached and screen secured with aluminum strips (hand cut, had to buy a sheet :-/) and pop riveted in (great idea bryan!)

Now to finish them off and buy more rats, and then do it all over again 3 more times.

Pine bedding is ok for rats, right? found 4.5 cubic feet of it for $5 at walmart. Will have to go that way when using 24- 58 quart tubs and changing them regularly

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...1/8/ratBox.jpg



-----------------Number----Cost-ea----Total
Pop Rivet---14------------0.04--------0.60
HW Cloth---1-------------0.53---------0.53
Tub------------1------------4.82---------4.82
Aluminum---1------------1.10---------1.10
Bottle---------1------------2.73----------2.73
Dish-----------1------------1.00----------1.00
Zip tie--------1-------------0.13----------0.13
Total cost per tub was $10.90 including water bottle

I bought everything bulk except the aluminum (bad price). dish I got might be a little expensive but its metal...

So a completely setup and hopefully escape proof rat enclosure including dish and water bottle for about the price of a 10 gallon tank with no lid... could be worse

A little more work than I thought it would be, but it moved along quickly once I started doing each step all at once.... after these 6 only 18 more to go O.o

I will just advise you to be careful! I just say this because I am currently overbreeding in my rat colony. I have a single male, and about 8 females, and seriously I wish someone would come over and take some off my hands. Although, putting them down and freezing them is good because they can be preserved at whatever size you need and used later. My main advice would be, please don't overcrowd them. This leads to babies being eaten and a general unhealthiness due to fighting and lack of food. I have a strict rule of, one female with babies per cage. 20 gallon long tanks, or something of similar floor space, are the best. I admit to using 10g tanks for most of my dams but if they have a really big litter, they get upped into a 20g long. I have a 30g community tank where the male lives permanently and the females get rotated, as well as a "recovery" tank where the females go when their litters are weaned, to give them a little rest between breedings. None of them ever fight seriously, though there are a few scuffles when rotating; I like to clean the cages and rotate females on the same day to give everyone equal footing.

I'm in the same boat Gin though I know my local pet store will take any overflow but till I get my numbers to the amount I like to have on hand my breeder male is baching it with some bigger male weans and my available females are just hanging out together in another big tub and doing whatever female rats do when left to themselves (probably rat gossip about the stud rat LOL).


~~Jo~~

lol rat gossip...!
Yes, your biggest trouble with breeding rats, is usually what to do with the extras. That, and buying bedding. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginevive

lol rat gossip...!
Yes, your biggest trouble with breeding rats, is usually what to do with the extras. That, and buying bedding. :)

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I have the ~15 gallon tubs i pictured above. 6 per "colony"

1 for (male and 2-3 ladies)
1 for (2-3 ladies "chilling", or emergency maternity tub if too many are preggy)
2 for maternity (subtract the number of ladies from the above tubs when you put one in here)
1 for male feeders
1 for female feeders

That puts me at 4 tubs for 6-7 breeders, i think that should be a fair number, and if not, I can always get more :)

Im going to have 4 colonies, so about 24 ladies producing... my friend has 30 ladies producing and cant keep up with his snake needs (he has 50 snakes). I plan on having 20-40 hungry females, so Im pretty sure I shouldnt over produce (especially with keeping males and females seperate, and not allowing instant-repregnancies with the females, giving them time to regain strength, etc.

oh and for bedding I will probably stick with aspen once I used up my 13.5 cubic feet of pine i bought from walmart for $15... or start using the pine just for the feeder cages and use aspen for the breeders

here is the food list we've compiled so far, we still need to find peanuts and sunflower seeds


Lab BlocksDog FoodTri pastaCheeriosPuffed Wheat
Puffed Rice
RaisinsMultigrain cerealSplit peaLentilsOats

Ends up being about 155 lbs of food so far... we will see how long it lasts :P going to seal it up in tubs