Help! Is this poo or a regurg?

Okay, we have to come clean now. Our new baby is a Surinam Red Tail, bought from the great folks at LLL Reptile. Pictures of her later, we promise!

We were checking on her temps and such after we got home from work and found what we are not sure is either a poo or a regurg. Our salesman at LLL said that she's about 6 months old and feeding well on small adult mice on Wednesdays.

Rick thinks we should go ahead tomorrow and see if she'll eat, but I know I've read something somewhere that says if a snake regurgs to wait a week before offering a small food item.

So, I know this is gross, but we need your experience, so if you can, have a look and tell us what you think. Just linking it - don't want everyone to have to look if they don't want to. And thank you in advance. =)

*edit*
Oh, it measures about 2.5" long, if that helps.

I'm not a redtail expert, but looks like poo to my eyes.

looks like poo

dats a poopy! (hehe, my baby sis is three, we here that a lot)

Whew...thanks guys. Just having a mom-panic moment...=)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Whew...thanks guys. Just having a mom-panic moment...=)

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Panicky moments are well understood :) Are you keeping her in quarantine? I know you got her from LLLreptiles, but I would definitely keep her in a different side of the house for a full four weeks before moving her into the same space as your bp. Also, see if you can bag up that poo for your vet. Its usually good practice to take the new ones to the vet for a checkup regardless from whom you purchased it from :bounce:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Whew...thanks guys. Just having a mom-panic moment...=)

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Hehe I did the exact same thing when my bp had his first poo =P

Yes, they are in different rooms; Cleo is on the first floor, Carmen on the second. =)

Cass I have to disagree, I don't think that looks like a normal boa stool. It seems slimey and almost appears to have the shape of a rodent head in the area to the far left. I'm no expert on regurges please understand but I've cleaned up a far bit of boa poop with Rauri and none of them appeared like your picture.

Do you know when the snake for sure last ate before you transported it home? Does it have any history of regurging? I wish I could remember where I read that BCC's tend to regurge a bit more easily than BCI's but I will have a good search today and try to find reliable links on this.

I'm not saying it's a definite regurge, just that it appears to not be a typical defecation to my eyes. I hope those members with more BCC experience will chime in here as I don't wish to worry you unduly if I'm way off base here.


~~Jo~~

The link doesn't seem to be working, I would love to see that picture because if it is regurge you don't want to handle or feed for two weeks.

BCC's are prone more to regurge than BCI's. I know a few keepers/breeders that have a few BCC's and have dealt with more regurge scenarios than I have with all my BCI's. I've even heard of a few cases developing regurge syndrome out of the blue even when kept at optimal husbandry. This isn't to say ALL BCC's have this problem, just that it is said to be higher and more common in BCC's than BCI's, especially the imports! You may have read this many times on boa forums, boa website such as RioBravo or even the Boa Manual.

If it is a regurge and you feed it again too soon, it may regurge again and then you can really start to have a problem! In order to try to avoid another regurge or possibly regurge syndrome, I’d advise you to wait 14 days before feeding again. I’d also advise feeding a smaller prey item for the next 1-2 feedings before returning to normal sized meals. The idea is to let the stomach acids and bacteria within the digestive system build back up a bit before feeding is attempted again.

Looks like poo to me. Looks like remnants of a digested mouse tail in the upper left?

I'm afraid to say, I'm leaning towards regurge. I agree with Jo, it just doesn't look like boa poop. Slinky is about 9 or 10 months old, she's never regurged, but she has pooped plenty, and it didn't look like that. And if your 2.5 inch estimate is right, that seems a bit large for a single dropping. Check with LLL, see when she ate last. I'd say that if she ate more than 5 days before giving you this present, its poo. If less than 5 days, I'd say regurge. Either way, if you just brought her home, give her a week to settle in before you feed. If it is gurge, wait two weeks and go a step smaller in the next feeding, ie, if she's feeding on adult mice, give her a hopper.

She ate last Wednesday and is captive bred. I was going to call LLL today anyway to order some stuff, so I'll ask for our salesman (scalesman?) if she has any history of regurge.

Thanks guys! We'll keep you posted.

History or no history, take care of it before it becomes a problem.

Looks like regurge to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cassandra

She ate last Wednesday

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Is it possible for a snake to throw up after 5 or 6 days? I'm curious as to how that would be, unless temps were low enough where proper digestion is prevented and causes the regurge. Then again, if temps were low, would the snake not have rethched the mouse much earlier?

I had a corn regurge and it looked just like that only smaller. I probed around it and I could visibly see pinky parts. It also smelled bad. I have also seen regurges in pet stores and your pic looks really similar. :(

I found this interesting article the day after my corn regurged. I know it is written for cornsnakes.com but it contains some interesting info that may help. I'm no expert, so you may want others to chime in some more.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28342

I have to say that looks like regurg to me as well. I definitely see the tail and the shape of the head that Jo points out. And it's hairy. While I've never seen BCC poop, ball python poop is never hairy. I would imagine they would look similar.

Cleo's (Ball Python) poop was a tiny little bit hairy still... not that we looked at it that closely and intently... no no... that would be too wierd!!!!

/whistles innocently

I hope you figure everything out, and it turns out okay =(

So to clarify the time line...

Wed 15th she ate.
Sunday 19th we bought her.
Tuesday 21st regurg/poop appeared sometime during the day.


So that's 6 days between eating and the thing in the image.

However, 4 days after eating she went through the stress of being bought (so 40 minutes or so of handling), then being put in a cloth bag with shredded paper for the trip home, say 3-4 hrs total. Then a new environment, new smells, new everything really.


Like Raj said, and it concurs with other research I have done online that a regurg after 6 days is highly unlikely? At that point mouse should be well into the guts, and if it is a regurg is certainly is very much mostly digested.

So could it be fast poop, as in it came out the other end sooner than usual?


We really appreciate all the information and advice in this thread. I'm pretty sure we are overly concerned due to 'new-snake-panic-syndrome'! But we will follow up on everything posted here and make sure we do everything we can to make Carmen as comfortable, calm and content as we can :)

I guess were spoiled by Cleo, who has been a good as can be about, well everything really heh.

After 6 days, yes its unlikely that she did regurge. It is possible though, if her temps were too low, for the mouse to only have made it that far in the digestion process.

I think your best course of action is to treat it as if it were a regurge, like ssscales said, don't let it become a problem. Hold off feeding her for 2 weeks (don't worry, she won't starve), then give her a small prey item.

It looks like vomit...Partially digested and im sure it smelled horrible. Could be parasites of some sort. Definitely keep an eye and get her checked.

Ahhh you meant to type Sunday the 19th I bet (confused me a bit there).

Again, I'm no vet nor BCC expert but after 6 days if that was a regurge something is interfering with the snakes ability to fully digest and that would concern me. I suppose by this time you've tossed that mess out so no way for your vet to check but personally I'd probably phone the vet and discuss it this. Never hurts to get your herp vet's take on these things if there's any question about your new snakes wellbeing (better safe than sorry I figure). Your vet may even be able to view that pic to better help you assess what you saw.

Let us know how it goes.


~~Jo~~

Ops... editted and fixed the date in my post.

I was just able to view the picture and it's hard to tell, but it does look like regurge. I would treat it as a regurge to be safe. If it's poop 14 days of rest and no food is not going to hurt at all. If it's regurge and you ignore it, you're asking for trouble.

Keep the hot spot at 92F and ambient at 82F, fresh water, no handling or food for 14 days. After 14 days feed a small meal for 1-2 feedings before going back to normal feedings. If it happens again, go see a vet!

I am very concerned about your snake...

First, this post, now the other on the noises and other things it is doing. It could be the snake came to you with an RI or something else is wrong. I would really get this snake to a vet ASAP.

Jeanne, do you have Cassandra confused with Lucifer's Mommy?

I think so, Carmen is fine apart from this.

Yeah, sorry. Been a long day!

LOL

IN any case, I would still be cautious.... because it does look more like a regurge.

Breaking News!

Kinda... heh.

No we didn't dispose of it yet, in fact Cass went home this lunchtime to do some in-depth investigations. She broke it apart to have a look inside.

She said... one half is definately poop - as poopy as poop can be. The other half still has some mouse remnants in it, identifiable bone ends and fur etc.

So... which end did this come out of?

My guess....if it got so far along to be "poopized" at least in part (yes, I like to make up words! LOL), then it's highly unlikely that it would make its way all the way back to the snake's upper digestive area to be regurged. Seems much more likely to me that for whatever reason, the prey item simply was not fully digested before it was passed. It seems reasonable to assume that the stress of moving to a new home and the decreased temperatures that may have been involved in that move simply interrupted the digestive process.

Yeah, I dissected it. :puke:Had it wrapped in a paper towel, tied in a grocery store plastic bag (which is now the fridge should we need take in - Rick, don't open the plastic bag, k?!).

Anywho, we'll be monitoring her closely...=)

I really, really, really hope you used a ziploc honey... or two... me I'd use three.

I mean.... EWWWWwwwwwww :P