Distictions that make the Phantom and goblin morphs

Hey folks. I have been looking ar RDR site trying to get a better understanding of the different morphs and what they look like. On RDR's site it says the Phantom is a vague morph and I was wondering is there was something to look for to tell if a snake is a phantom or not. He has a pretty good dscription, but its hard for me to pic up on the differences without a side by side compairison. Also he talks about the Goblin and goblin markers as well. I read his description and still can not pin point what the goblin markings are. Someone posted a breakdown of the pastel porph is there descriptions of these morphs too? I think its pretty interesting that he has gotten lucys from crossing two different morphs and cokming out with two types of Lucys. The lessers by lessers he said produced the cleanest and whitest white snake, but the others are intersting non the less. Also the Lessers if I am not mistaken are platinums that do not have the Hypo appearance. Is that correct? Thanks for answering my questions. This is all facinating to me.

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

On RDR's site it says the Phantom is a vague morph and I was wondering is there was something to look for to tell if a snake is a phantom or not.

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RDR would be the only reliable one to ask this question (or those that have actually seen a phantom up close and personal) because to my knowledge, he's the only one that has produced them, and he's the only one that has them.

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

he talks about the Goblin and goblin markers as well.

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He talks in his clutch records and in the actual Gob. Marker pages about how he classified this morph himself, and later found out they were Yellow Bellies (het Ivory), but he was keeping the name Goblin Marker because of the long standing project..

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

Someone posted a breakdown of the pastel porph is there descriptions of these morphs too?

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Again, I can only suggest that you read some more on his site... it's a jungle of information... I go almost every day, and I don't think I've even covered three trees out of that jungle! :)

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

I think its pretty interesting that he has gotten lucys from crossing two different morphs and cokming out with two types of Lucys. The lessers by lessers he said produced the cleanest and whitest white snake, but the others are intersting non the less.

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Yes, this is very interesting... Lucy's have been produced from five different pairings that I'm aware of...

1.) Lesser x Lesser
2.) Platty x Lesser
3.) Lesser x Mojave
4.) Mojave x Mojave
5.) Fireball x Fireball (black eyed lucy)

There's still just so much more info out there that hasn't been discovered yet, or is being held very quietly until more is found out about the "dilute" gene. More time... more time... we just need more time.. :)

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

Also the Lessers if I am not mistaken are platinums that do not have the Hypo appearance. Is that correct?

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Look at the Platty Daddy page, and again at the Lesser page... there's a little info up there on what makes them different, and what a hard time he's had replicating the orriginal platty daddy (up until recently).

Hope this helps... and yes.. it really IS fascinating... to most all of us I think! :)

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

or those that have actually seen a phantom up close and personal

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Yup ... Phantoms are really one of those "ya gotta see them in person" morphs to "get it". ;)

-adam

removing my comments

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Originally Posted by cassandra

Just curious, maybe Adam would know...Ralph definitely seems like a "I go my way" kind of guy, but has anyone ever suggested to him having someone edit what he writes? I find his writing style extremely difficult to understand; I wanna read more and understand, but I get so frustrated, which sucks because he has such an incredible wealth of information and his breeding histories are so important to herpetology...It's so awesome that he's open to share it, I just wish it was more consumable.

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WOW! ... I think that Ralph does an awesome job with all of the information that he shares FOR FREE! I'm sure that a guy that owns two companies, has an awesome family, and a great group of friends could do better things with his time than sharing his vast knowledge of ball pythons! But instead, he is dedicated to helping out the "little guy" by sharing everything that he knows. How many other big breeders are contributing that much information? Now he's gotta get an editor too? :rofl:

-adam

I'm sorry...I didn't mean to offend.

i've only met ralph once briefly in daytona.(thanks adam) he will share what he knows if you ask him(and he likes you). lol he didn't seem like the kind of guy that would want/need an editor! he says what he thinks and feels and doesn't care what everyone else thinks about it. my advice would be to call him up at a good time for him and ask your questions.


vaughn

My very limited interaction with Ralph (two phone calls) is that he shoots straight from the hip. He tells it like it is, and you should be prepared for that. But he's an invaluable wealth of information. Heck, each of the breeders I've had the pleasure of talking to have been a wealth of information and I've learned a lot from each of them. I don't think I say thank you enough! So - THANK YOU!

Oh, Cassandra, it took me awhile to get used to Ralph's writing style as well, but knowing that he has such great information to share, I stuck with it, and now it's much easier to read. You have to get used to his writing style, and it makes it much easier. I'm not sure which section it is right off the top of my head, but I spent the day reading it (on possible hets, Proven-A-Mite, etc) and I learned quite a lot. Had a lot of Ah HA! moments too (like, hello - why didn't I think of that! LOL)

I have also learned alot from his site and plan to continue to go there, but I can agree with the confusing part. Not that is isn;t good info, but it jumps around alot. Nothing wrong with that because I;m sure he is a busy man and it is a pleasure reading what he has put up. I spent most of the evening a few time here at work reading things and going to different sections of his site. Some things take a little more to get than others, but with time it will fall into place. I am just glad there is someone willing to share that info, and after reading it enough it will click.

I remember a brief time after the Phantom proved reproducible when it was agreed by both RDR and TSK that it was the same as the Mojave. Then they eventually both decided it was different but now it turns out that both produce white snakes when combined with lesser. The apparent homozygous phantom RDR produced in 2005 looking different than the apparent homozygous mojave tends to confirm that they are different. My point is that they also have some similarities. I can't seem to find the phantom described in detail anywhere but I bet it has a wide white belly like the mojave and I also see a little of the wide dark pattern in phantom pictures like in mojave pictures. Being a "drab looking" morph it's entirely possible that there are other phantom like lines out there that haven't even been noticed for long enough to be proven yet. However, as mojave males become more common and every clear belly slightly mojave looking female gets bred to them perhaps a few more alleles will be added to the white snake group. Was the female that produced the crystal ball one of these?

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

Yes, this is very interesting... Lucy's have been produced from five different pairings that I'm aware of...

1.) Lesser x Lesser
2.) Platty x Lesser
3.) Lesser x Mojave
4.) Mojave x Mojave
5.) Fireball x Fireball (black eyed lucy)

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Don't forget the Vin Russo line:

6. High Yellow Lemon X High Yellow Lemon
7. Mojave X High Yellow Lemon

That was a shocker for me as I really didn't see the similarities in the High Yellow Lemon except for the white belly. Hopefully someone will take a chance and cross fireball to one of the other group to test for compatibility there. Doesn't seem likely but who knows?

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Don't forget the Vin Russo line:

6. High Yellow Lemon X High Yellow Lemon
7. Mojave X High Yellow Lemon

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Ahhhh, yes... I did forget them... for a moment... oops.

It really does make ya wonder what other crosses will produce lucy's!

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Was the female that produced the crystal ball one of these?

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Everyone will be very surprised when they see the female that produced the crystal. ;)

-adam