uh oh my snake has a respitory infection:(

About three days ago i noticed that when my snake took in a breath it would make a popping noise.So i looked into it and found out he or she(dont know gender yet)has a respitory infection what shold i do or how could i help it get healthy again??? plz help

If your snake has a respiratory infection, you need to get it to a vet for treatment in order for it to get better. The sooner the better!

Vet definitely. In the meantime please list all your temps, how measured etc so we can try to better help you until you get it to a vet which ought to be waay up on your priority list.

What kind of "looking into it" did you do to reach your diagnosis?

And has your snake shed recently?

i found out that my snake had a respitory infec. by goin to "kingsnake trouble shooting guide for ball pythons" ,and no he hasnt shed recently .he ate about a week ago, tommorow im gonna try to feed him. my temp is about 75 to 80 degrees farenheit.and my humidity is pretty low at about 50% so im workin to get that up.ne thing elseyou wanna know?

A vet is the only one who can treat your snake for an illness. Make sure your temps are 82-84 on the cool side and 92-94 on the warm side. Ambient temps should not fall below 80F. Humidity should stay within 50-60%. What are you using to heat your enclosure and how are you measuring your temps and humidity?

How is the temp reading taken? I assume air temp?

You need to know the ground temps on the warm and cool sides. Aim for 92F warm, 82F cool.

What heating do you have in the enclosure? What type of enclosure are you using?

i have a night and day lamp. i use regular thermometer for temp and a humidity gauge not to high tech.and if i should i could add like a 5" by 4" heat pad. and he's got a big rock water dish

Regular thermometer? Not sure what you mean by that. I would go to WalMart and buy a digital thermometer/hygrometer in the hardware section. It's only about $12 and made by Accurite.


You didn't say, do you have at least two hides in there, one on the warm side and one on the cool side?

Your low temps probably contributed to the RI (if that's what he has, but your vet will tell you for sure when you take him in on Monday).

Here are a couple of links for you to learn from

Ball Python Care Sheet

Building a simple enclosure

How does a vet treat a RI, ive always been curious, what do they do ??

on the warm side he's got a half hollowed out log and on the colder side he's got a wooden root like hide out to hide under and he's got 4 leafy tree-like plant (ceramic) he climbs in em alot. right now he's laying in them

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Originally Posted by Brandon.O

How does a vet treat a RI, ive always been curious, what do they do ??

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My vet used Baytril, but I've heard reports of the FDA pulling that off the market. I'm not sure though. Its an Anitibiotic which was injected or taken in oraly after being dissolved in the drinking water. I'm sure Becky or someone would explain more.

Vet definitely.

Baytril is one of the harshest antibiotics. My vet will only prescribe it in extreme circumstances. It is normally injected, and can leave scars at the injection site. It is painful for the snake too.

Most RIs are treated by giving antibiotic injections. Amakacin and fortaz are two common antibiotics used. My vet showed me how to give the injections. Quite simple really.

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Originally Posted by iceman25

My vet used Baytril, but I've heard reports of the FDA pulling that off the market.

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Not true.

-adam

well thank alot guys for the help.since im a noob at this do i like take my thread down or what do i do?

No no.. leave it. The forum archives are valuable.. no sense in deleting good info!

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Baytril is one of the harshest antibiotics.

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I have to disagree with you there ... Maybe at 100 mg/ml which is typically used for burms or other massive animals, but the 22.7 mg/ml solution is enough for ball pythons and is extremely effective for treating respiratory infections. It's safe enough to use on gravid females and effective enough to clear up even severe RI's in a few weeks. Amikacin is also good, but very hard on a ball pythons renal system.

For severe cases of streptococcus and pseudomonosis, combinations of Enroflaxin (Baytril) or Amikan and 3rd gen anti-biotics like Ceftazidime (Fortaz) and Ceftiofur Sodium (Naxcel) are proving to be amazingly effective.

-adam

Really? My vet told me he doesn't like baytril because of the scarring and tissue damage issues.. granted, I was taking 6 and 7 foot boas to him, not ball pythons.

I wish I knew more about the common antibiotics used on snakes..

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Really? My vet told me he doesn't like baytril because of the scarring and tissue damage issues.. granted, I was taking 6 and 7 foot boas to him, not ball pythons.

I wish I knew more about the common antibiotics used on snakes..

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Like I said, the 100 mg/ml solution can be very nasty, but that can be fixed via dilution.

I've never seen Baytril "burn" at 22.7 mg/ml.

-adam

Thanks, i was totally clueless how a snake would treat i RI, Roxy was making some wheezy noieses but then i notcied she had a small piece of something in her nose(im thinkin it was a small piece of aspen in there), im pretty sure she got it out, i took her out today and didnt hear or see anything unusual. It did spook me a little though, i dont really have an awesome herp vet over here, i dont think he has much experience with snakes, or reptiles period, my mother knows him becuase of dog agility, obedience/ puppy playschool and so maybe ill call him and talk to him about it.

Where do you give them shots ? On there sides or what ?

Could you be taught how to do it and administer the med's in your own home ?

I've given dozens of snake shots in my home. Unfortunately I had two boas with very persistent RIs. Both are well now. :)

The shots are given in the forward third of the body on either side of the spine, in the muscle. The antibiotics I had could be given either subcutaneous, intramuscularly, or intraveinously.. basically, if you insert the needle at a 45 degree angle and get the meds in there, it's fine. That is what I have learned so far.

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Not true.

-adam

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My bad. It is banned from being used on Poultry.

Does anyone have experience with giving baytril in the drinking water? It seems to me that it would be an easy way to treat RIs. Easier on the snake.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Does anyone have experience with giving baytril in the drinking water? It seems to me that it would be an easy way to treat RIs. Easier on the snake.

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Doesn't work ... It seems like Enroflaxin really needs to directly enter the blood stream to be effective. Years ago, many vets used to prescribe it orally with mixed results. I've seen far better results from IM injections.

Not to mention the fact that there is no way to know how much the snake actually ingested if at all by just putting it in a water bowl.

Lately, I've been hearing about people using Enroflaxin in a nebulizer to treat deap lung bacterial infections with great success. We are learning more and more every year.

-adam

Good to know. What is a nebulizer?

It's a machine that turns liquids (such as medications) into an vaporized form.

-adam

Oh ok. So does Enroflaxin = baytril.. and deep lung bacterial infection = severe RI?

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Does anyone have experience with giving baytril in the drinking water? It seems to me that it would be an easy way to treat RIs. Easier on the snake.

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Yah, it is definitely easier on the snake. I treated an RI case with Baytril using three methods. First it was shots from the vet, and then I tried it in the water method, which, unfortunately was not too effective cause you can't get the snake to drink when you want it too. And finally it was though a little squeeze bottle gizmo thingy which was used to oraly feed the snake the medecine. I personally think shots are better.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Oh ok. So does Enroflaxin = baytril..

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Enroflaxin is the clinical name of the drug, Baytril is the commercial name.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

and deep lung bacterial infection = severe RI?

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No necessarily ... you can have a severe RI that has not yet spread to the lower lung. In most cases, one the lower lung starts to fill with fluid, you're snake is toast ... there's just no way to get it out. The new nebulizer treatments seem to be a way to get medication into that lower lung, but it's still early and the jury is still out.

-adam

Interesting.

On this subject.. anyone know why any given antibiotic won't work for some RIs? I had to try three different antibiotics for my boa before something worked.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Interesting.

On this subject.. anyone know why any given antibiotic won't work for some RIs? I had to try three different antibiotics for my boa before something worked.

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Many bugs are resistant to specific anti-biotics ... that's why a good vet will culture an animal before prescribing an anti-biotic. The culture will specifically identify the strain of bacateria and identify the drugs that it is resistant too ... then an effective anti-biotic can be prescribed.

-adam

It is nice to have an expert wife that does tests like that (on humans) to help give me explanations on that kinda stuff :D .....I told her that I am buying her a microscope and some equip for home so she can check out my snakes if they get problems....now I just have to get her to learn how to treat them for me:)

Heh.. that's awesome, Daniel. I wonder how hard it would be to learn to diagnose those things at home.. I mean if you have a powerful microscope and a good book with pictures of what to look for.. am I really pushing it here? :)

I am sure that it is not that hard, but you would still need a vet that is willing to prescribe the meds

....ha ah....but on the other hand, I really dont need a microscope and some needles in my house.....katie already tries to stick me and run tests everytime I go visit her at work....I dont know what would happen if she had the stuff at home to do it :D

Yeah, true.

Bacterial infections aren't identified with a microscope. They are actually "grown" in a peatry dish.

But a microscope is a great tool to have for doing your own fecal smears to identify internal parasites! ;) And if you can find a cheap centrifuge on ebay, you could really do your own floats too!

-adam

Do you do that, Adam? What's the difference between doing a smear, and a float? How powerful a microscope would be needed? Am I asking too many questions? LOL

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Bacterial infections aren't identified with a microscope. They are actually "grown" in a peatry dish.

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Grown on chocolate agar and that kinda stuff right?.....damn, that part of the lab stinks...

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Do you do that, Adam? What's the difference between doing a smear, and a float? How powerful a microscope would be needed? Am I asking too many questions? LOL

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I haven't done my own smears and floats in a long time ... I just ship poop off to my vet now via FedEx :D .... Floats are way more accurate than a smear ... To catch parasites with a smear, you have to either be incredibly lucky or the parasitic infection has to be pretty bad. You're much more likely to catch a minor parasite load with a float.

Where's Becky? She's the creepy crawly bug/poop meister!

-adam

Why does chocolate agar float sound like a viking dessert?


(not to p00p up this thread - the info imparted here is gold)

Yeah, where's Becky. I want the scoop.. on poop. Or something like that.

Someday when I have a bigger collection, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to get a good microscope and learn about this stuff.

Simple microbiology classes are helpful too. Especially if you plan on culturing your own specimens. < But they suuuuuuuure are booooo-rrrrrriiiiiiiiing lectures! :bleh: > LOL

When looking at a smear, you've got try and find the eggs through all the crap, literally. It's much harder to find what you are looking for. With a float, there is a strainer type thing, then keeps the larger pieces out of the slide. All the teeny tiny eggs float to the top, and it's collected on a coverslip. Drop that on the slide, and then look away. It's kinda fun, actually.

I think it would be, Christie. Gosh we are odd people.. looking at snake poop under a microscope is 'fun'!

Now collecting those samples is not as much fun, but hey, you gotta take what you can get. ;)

Bah, snake poo doesn't bother me. Even when the boas poo several pounds.. it's not that bad. ;)

LOL April! I don't mind the huge boa poop either...it's the darn boa farting *gag* I'm objecting to!

~~Jo~~

My boas fart too. The blood pythons are worse though.. big farters there.

So what's the question? Where am I? What's my name? Oh yeah...

*sigh* LONG weekend.

Baytril is actually ENROFLOXACIN and comes in many strengths. I use the 100mg/ml orally in my rats(0.01-0.04ml) and they do great and heal quicker than if it is injected(although it does smell and taste like complete ICKINESS). Gastrointestinal tissues absorb the Baytril better than injections in rodents, but in other species it doesn't work that way. And yep, the 22.7mg/ml is a much safer substance to inject, but you can always dilute the stronger stuff with sterile saline or a dextrose solution and inject it IM. Much easier on the snake and it won't burn or cause abscessing.

Cultures are done by taking a sample and then smearing it on a prepared petri dish(blood agar and all that mess). If any creepy-crawlies grow on it, you can find exactly what the cause of the infection is under the microscope and also by looking at the patterns of growth on the petri dish medium.

Fecals should be done on a fairly high-power microscope, one that has at least oil immersion at 100x on it. Good-quality ones are normally around $1000, but it will save you alot of heartache, especially if you didn't catch that cryptosporidium or giardia that the new animal you just got in was carrying. Centrifuging your samples will yield much better results, especially if you are dealing with tapeworms as they don't float well. A good float shouldn't contain any fecal material, and a good smear should barely contain any. Then trying to decipher what is what and if that pollen spore over there is an ova or not. It hurts my eyes, but I can do it for a couple hours on end :) Poop is fun, but pig poop is NOT.

Smears are much more likely to catch giardia and tapeworms, and floats are normally used for other parasitic infestations such as hookworms, roundworms and whipworms, etc. You just have to be able to do a direct smear very quickly because giardia and crypto aren't detectable for long amounts of time. The sample has to be as fresh as possible(straight out of.. Oh wait...You get the picture).

And to the original poster:
As far as the possible respiratory infection goes, your snake needs to see a qualified veterinarian as soon as possible. Proper husbandry goes a very long way in keeping snakes healthy, and if you are wanting to get rid of this one just for the fact that it's not big enough, what is going to happen if the next snake you get doesn't grow as fast as you want it to? Has a snappy attitude? Won't eat for you because your husbandry isn't up to par? Will you get rid of that one too?

Pythons and boas are known to live for 35 to 40 years. Are you prepared for this sort of life-long commitment? Ball Pythons as well as all snake species have strict husbandry requirements that need to be followed, or, as you are experiencing, they will not fare well and will get sick.

Please get your temperatures steady and in the ranges of 92-94 warm side and 82-84 cool side with the ambient(air temps) temps in the low to mid 80's. Humidity can range from 50-65%. A quality thermostat connected to an undertank heating device(such as flexwatt or Exo-Terra) will help provide your snake with the proper environment to thermoregulate and digest his meals. Heat lamps dry the air our unless other preventative measures have been taken to avoid this. Using saran wrap or a sheet of pre-cut plexiglas placed on most of the screen top(4 corners cut out and a circle big enough for the lamp) will help the humidity stay in the specified ranges.

Temperatures and humidity NEED to be monitored by an accurate digital thermometer. You can find a very good one at WalMart for around $11(Acu-Rite model) and it will measure your relative humidity as well as the temperatures on both sides of the enclosure.

Please review our caresheet and make any adjustments that are needed. Your snake's health and life are depending on you to create and maintain the proper environment for him and since the inappropriate environment has not been remedied, he got sick because of it. Prevention is always key to a happy, healthy animal.

Wow, I didn't see the end of this thread. Well said Becky! You are a wealth of information :) :graduate: