whats the correct,responsible way to feed your snake a live prey?

well, i've searched and read alot. most advice were about to feed your snake with responsibility. so im thinking on how?

last time my snake didn't eat. she was just smelling the prey and going after it slowly. as soon as the mouse makes a snappy move and runs away. it shys away from the prey, takes a while and follow it slowly.

well i know it didn't get used to its viv. and i had only one hideout
i added 4 small ones. and it seems to be enjoying it and moving from one to another. my wife was like "the snake isn't in its hideout. its out of the cage!!"
she didn't know i had more than 2 , they other 2 are nicely hidden.

anyways. this isnt my question.. if its hidden in its hideout.. how can i feed it? should i hold the mouse from its tail until it gets out of the cage? how long should i leave the mouse in the cage?
10 mnts? what are the mistakes i could fall in? any advice?

I'm far from an expert, and there's many people on here with more experience and knowledge than I. That being said, here's what I do.

I wouldn't recommend feeding your snake in it's vivarium. The reason for this is that snakes can begin to associate the cage being opened with food being made available and can respond aggressively.

Get a sweater box, or another container of some sort. Use this as your feeding box. Put the mouse in first, before the snake. I'd recommend putting the mouse in some sort of box as well inside your feeding box. Young snakes in the wild often prey primarily on young rodents in burrows and having the mouse in another container can bring out this response. I'd recommend using a small cardboard box and cut a hole on the side big enough for your snake to fit through.

You can also try stunning the mouse, simply by taking it by the tail and whacking it against a hard surface. I know it may sound cruel, but I've had to do it many times with mine. I've tried without success to feed my snakes f/t mice, and I often did this just to ensure that the mouse couldn't harm the snake. Now I have enough confidence in them to feed them live all the time. You can try dangling the stunned mouse in front of your snake and they'll usually figure it out themselves. Be sure to use long tongs when doing this, so your snake doesn't accidently tag your hand while attempting to strike the mouse!!

What kind of snake do you have, btw?

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Originally Posted by eightleggedfreak

I wouldn't recommend feeding your snake in it's vivarium. The reason for this is that snakes can begin to associate the cage being opened with food being made available and can respond aggressively.

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If you follow the same steps every week, feeding after feeding, and handle your BP on a regular basis (2-4 days a week), this isn't really necessary.

Most of us feed in their enclosures. There are numerous debates on this topic, that you can find through the search feature of the forum.

The debate to feed in or out of enclosure is almost as hot as live or f/t.

The truth is, there are many different ways to keep these animals, just as there are to keep/raise anything. Not all of them are technically "correct", but I wouldn't say most of them are "wrong" either.

Hope this helps.

hmm.... i wonder if someone had any pictures.
i have a small door at the top of the viv. i usually dont open the door just for feeding.
most of the time just changing the water. or just checking my ball python out.

well, i have a baby ball python. you can check the pics in my gallery.

i think im gonna do it while my wife is outside the house. she feels bad already for the mouse just sitting in one place with the snake!!!! ...
well, if any one had took pictured of the feeding. i'd gladly appreciate it.

i wonder if i should give it a try. its been 4 days since last attempt.

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Originally Posted by eightleggedfreak

I wouldn't recommend feeding your snake in it's vivarium. The reason for this is that snakes can begin to associate the cage being opened with food being made available and can respond aggressively.

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That's actually a myth that many people believe to be true. As long as you enter your snakes enclosure regularly for handling, cage cleaning, and giving fresh water, your snake will learn the difference between "feeding" and everything else and be no more or less aggressive than if fed in a separate container. A shy secretive species like a ball python may actually become stressed by being moved into a new container for feeding and refuse food.

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Originally Posted by eightleggedfreak

You can also try stunning the mouse, simply by taking it by the tail and whacking it against a hard surface.

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I can't say that I agree with any type of "whacking" when it comes to rodents. It is cruel and inhumane, and in reality, not necessary.

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Originally Posted by eightleggedfreak

You can try dangling the stunned mouse in front of your snake and they'll usually figure it out themselves.

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This is actually a dangerous practice ... a stunned mouse could potentially "snap out of it" in a very paniced and stressed state from being "whacked" and dangling from tongs and lash out by biting and scratching at whatever is around it ... possibly your snake.

Just my thoughts on the topic for whatever they are worth ...

Somewhere on the site there is a post where I described what I feel is the best way to feed a ball python live prey ... maybe someone can dig it up?

-adam

bleh!! couldn't find it ;/ well.
how do YOU do it adam?
i've put alot of stuff in the cage. like 4 hidings / bowl and some artificial leaves.
do i have to remove them each time i wanna feel my BP?

I guess I'm not a search wizard either. I couldn't find the post myself.

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Originally Posted by Johar

bleh!! couldn't find it ;/

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Originally Posted by srozell

I guess I'm not a search wizard either. I couldn't find the post myself.

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Okay, okay... I'll do it... Nothin else to do this early in the morning. ;) :)

Here's one...
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...03&postcount=7
Here's another one...
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...68&postcount=3

I'm sure there are many more as well... (Search, Advanced Search, Put "Feeding" in the search keywords, and "Adam_Wysocki" in the user field, there'll be a few items that come up.

Here's my thought on feeding in the enclosure vs. in a separate feeding container. Is it right? I dunno, but makes sense to me.


My feelings are, my snakes are going to be more comfortable in their own familiar surroundings with access to their hides where they can actually "ambush" the prey item while still having the safety of their hides.

If they are in a separate feeding container, they don't have familiar surroundings, they don't have their hides, and while eating, it seems to me that they are most vulnerable. Imagine being halfway through swallowing the mouse or rat out in the wide open without the security of your hides and a predator comes up on you - what are you going to do? You can't strike at it, you've got a mouse or rat halfway down. You can't really ball up very easily and you surely can't flee.

I think feeding in the enclosure provides a better sense of well-being and safety for your snake. In the seven months I've had Kashmire, I've never fed outside his enclosure, and he's never even so much as hissed at me. ;)

When I first started, I thought the same thing and I fed in a separate enclosure. My bp was prone to skipping meals and it was not working. After some advice from the lovely people here, I started feeding in the enclosures. I have much better feeding responses, and the routine is very easy. I have never had one of my bps mistake me for food. I open their enclosure's often to check for poo, do cleanings, or just to change their water. Now on feeding day, I'm not messing around with them. ;)

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Originally Posted by ddbjdealer

Okay, okay... I'll do it... Nothin else to do this early in the morning. ;) :)

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Thank you!

I am a true beleiver and follower of feeding out side the cage....I feed all of my snakes in a "feeding box" and have never had a problem....The snakes don't seemed to mind either. I know this is a subject with much highly heated debate, but I'm going to have to go with eightleggedfreak on this one. Also, feeding in the cage could cause your snake to accidentally ingest bedding. Do whatever works for you - and your snake.

We've always fed in their home enclosures whether it was f/t, p/k or live (we now feed all our bp's live prey exclusively). We do not have any problems with aggressive behaviour as they are quite used to my hands being in their pretty much daily either doing husbandry or removing them for short handling sessions. I stick to an absolute routine as far as feeding.

Feeding is Thursday evenings around here after dark. On Thursday their only contact with a human is a quick lid opening to make sure all is nice and tidy and their water is filled. That's it, very different from my usual husbandry routine. By the time we open their tubs that evening most of them are either out of their hides looking for prey or lurking in the hide entrance waiting for dinner. They get used to our routines and know in their own snake way that is feeding day I guess.

We put the live rat on the opposite side of the enclosure to the snake (never dropped in their face) and then monitor the feed quietly. It usually takes no more than seconds to a few moments for them to hit their prey. We remove any live prey that hasn't been taken in 10 to 20 minutes tops but it rarely ever takes our snakes that long to decide to strike. If they refuse, they get offered prey again on the next Thursday.

We make sure they are offered healthy live prey that has itself eaten well and had access to fresh water so that the prey is the best it can be and is not half crazed for food and water itself.

Just our way, certainly not the only way.


~~Jo~~

As far as ingesting bedding goes, I don't know what you use for bedding, if your snake happens to ingest some it will digest it fine. That stomach breaks down mouse bone and hair. One or two little aspen shavings or something won't be the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

I am a true beleiver and follower of feeding out side the cage....I feed all of my snakes in a "feeding box" and have never had a problem....The snakes don't seemed to mind either. I know this is a subject with much highly heated debate, but I'm going to have to go with eightleggedfreak on this one. Also, feeding in the cage could cause your snake to accidentally ingest bedding. Do whatever works for you - and your snake.

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You do disinfect the feeding box between feedings, right? Just wanted to mention that for anyone who would be interested in it. :D

Feeding boxes work fine, but I don't think it's good to say that it makes them prone to aggression toward the owner unless you've experienced that. The same with the bedding issue. I've had mine get pieces down a couple times, but have never had a problem with that.

The great thing about this site, is that we can respect your choice as long as it works for you and your snake. ;)

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

Also, feeding in the cage could cause your snake to accidentally ingest bedding.

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Originally Posted by hornsrule

As far as ingesting bedding goes, I don't know what you use for bedding, if your snake happens to ingest some it will digest it fine. That stomach breaks down mouse bone and hair. One or two little aspen shavings or something won't be the end of the world.

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hornsrule's post took the words right out of my mouth... Aspen isn't a problem at all with your snake digesting it. And if you're that worried about your snake ingesting a little dab of substrate, then change to paper... it's cheaper and your snake won't ingest any of it.

But, like 4theSNAKElady said.. do whatever works for you and your BP.

i use wooden bedding.
anyways. since it didnt eat i'll wait for another week i guess.
i was holding the mouse by the tail when it suddenly decided to bite the snake while its in its hiding ;l i just pulled it away quickly. i left it in the cage for couple of mnts. i didnt see any reaction. i mean the snake didn't come out so i took it out.

i guess i'll have to wait another week :) thanx for the great advice people.

http://www.proexotics.com/graphics/b...ive_prey_1.jpg
OUCH!!!!!!!!.... :( im sure no one wants his snake to end up like that ;/

adam. you said you'd make sounds . but if i remember correctly. snakes are deaf? right? how about tapping the wooden cage in a special pattern

Does anyone know the actual verified information about that photograph. It gets hauled out and displayed all over the internet as a reason to not live feed and personally I'd like to know the background on this. I've heard about 10 different stories on it.


~~Jo~~

hmmm what kinda stories did you hear? ...
this picture makes me never want to leave the mouse for a long period of time with the snake. atleast i would watch everything from far away! :)

That same picture has been floating around the internet for 10 years. It's old news.

I wonder why there aren't any new pictures like that popping up?

-adam

maybe cuz its not happening anymore? hey adam u didn't answer my question :D

adam. you said you'd make sounds . but if i remember correctly. snakes are deaf? right? how about tapping the wooden cage in a special pattern

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Originally Posted by Johar

you said you'd make sounds.

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I don't make any specific sounds, but when you walk into a room, you make noise, when you put down a box of rats, that makes noise, when you pick up your hemostats, that makes noise. Ball pythons will learn to recognize the "sounds" of feeding day.

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Originally Posted by Johar

snakes are deaf? right?

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No. Snakes are not deaf. They just lack an outer ear.

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Originally Posted by Johar

how about tapping the wooden cage in a special pattern

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There's no need.

-adam

thanx :) maybe i should sing a sad song for the mouse before putting for the snake :P just kidding. thanx for the information. was really helpful

What about the mice? Oh sure no one ever thinks about the mouse that has to find his way in your snake:P


http://mercury.walagata.com/w/lurch/mouse.jpg