what is a Hypo?

ok I know I haven't concluded all my reading yet, but I have been doing some other reading on here and came across the term Hypo. I think I have the term Het and Homo down as far as understanding what the terms mean with respect to the genes these guys carry. I just haven't read anything about Hypo yet. I did a search, but really didn't pull anything up that looked promising. Looked to be more posts with the term hypo in it, but not actualy a meaning to the term. Thanks and sorry if it seems like an elimentary question, but I have to start someplace. Thanks everyone.

Hypo is short for hypomelanistic. It's a type of morph, like caramels or pieds. :D

And hey don't feel bad about asking questions. That's what we're here for. Keep em coming. ;)

ok so now that leads me to another question. What is the difference between a Hypo and normal? for a comparison or hypo vs another morph for that matter. Thanks

Thanks for the kind words Christie, but I have been some places asking questions or seen others ask questions and They or I got shotdown for not doing some searching first. Granted its a different hobby and different board,but it was on more than one and I was just trying to cover my bases. Thanks!!!

This is a hypo ...

http://8ballpythons.com/uploads/hypo-03280501.jpg

-adam

I don't mind answering questions for people who are trying, and if you keep searching hypo you may not get exactly what you're looking for especially if you are looking at hets and homozygous. (gotta love all that terminology) If you want a great way to tell about the different morphs go to some of the big breeder sites. I love NERDs, myself. I'm not sure what you are asking exactly about the differences in morphs. It's a trait that can be produced consistantly.

Thanks Christie and Adam.

Adam that looks like a Pastel what makes it a hypo? Ok I'm off to try and find out what the difference between Hypo and say pastel or the other morphs.

ok while looking for more info to what Hypo was I come across asite that had pictures of the blue eyed Lucy. OMG that is another fabulous snakes and very very nice. Another jaw dropper.

Hypo = less

melanin = black pigment

hence hypomelanistic = less black pigment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Hypo = less

melanin = black pigment

hence hypomelanistic = less black pigment.

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So...a hypo then has what is called a lot of "blushing", right?

No. not necessarily. Blushing is just a feature of the pattern that any BP can have.

hypos just produce a reduced amount of melanin.. the reduction is evenly spread throughout the whole pattern.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

This is a hypo ...

http://8ballpythons.com/uploads/hypo-03280501.jpg

-adam

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Man, I could look at her all day long!

Here's a thread from awhile back where I asked a ton of hypo questions. There might be some information here that can help you out in your own research.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...highlight=Hypo


~~Jo~~

here is a pic of my hypo 1st, then a pastel.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/DSCN0397.JPG

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/DSCN0395.JPG


vaughn

Forgive my ignorance and poor eyesight, but these look like real nice Pastels to me. What is the difference between these Hypos and real nice Pastels from a visual perspective?

I see JB asked the same question already..

Hypos will look like they're constantly in shed... and when they go in shed, it looks like you put 'em in the freezer for a while and they have frost bite. lol. They look really odd in shed.

Sheds are the other way to tell..... there's no pattern in a Hypo/Ghost shed.

In my quest for knowledge, and all the people's sites I've looked at... it's really quite interesting to me how Hypo's look so "dull" (not really the word for it), but awesome at the same time... but when you combine a Hypo with anything else... it just brings out that much more brightness. Very weird how different genes work together.

Look at these pics: http://www.ballpythonmorphs.com/pmisc.html

On the third row down....the two middle pics....a pastel, hypo, and normal....

...they look nothing alike in my opinion....and pictures are not really the best things to go by....ball python morphs look completely different in person....so much is lost when a photo is taken :D

There are a bunch of comparison pics on that page so look through them all ;)

Look at those two pics again. See how the hypo has less black? The black between the yellows is faded.

The pastel has crisp black. Both have intense yellow. One because some of the black is taken away from it to make it less brown (the hypo).

I'm not sure what makes a pastel brighter yellow, but they don't have reduced melanin like a hypo. Perhaps it is hyperxanthic? (more yellow) I don't know.

As Ken put it, Hypos do look a bit opaque compared to a Pastels.

Thanks everyone. That is exactly what I was looking for. The constantly in shed comment made by Ken, along with everyone elses comments set the dominoes in motion. I understand now and makes sence. Thanks everyone for all the examples too. Daniel thanks for the website pictures. Being able to see it helped explain it too.

Josh have a look around for a Mojave picture and then a Hypo Mojave. For me anyways the addition of the Hypo genes seems to really show an easily visual difference. Not sure where to send you perhaps N.E.R.D. or V.P.I sites that you can see both Mojave and Hypo Mojave to compare them.


~~Jo~~

For Mojave and Hypo Mojave.....TSK is the place to go....just click on the morph for a description and pics:
http://ballpython.com/page.php?topic=morph
Click on Hypo Mojave and there is a pic with a mojave and hypo mojave for comparison ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frankykeno

Josh have a look around for a Mojave picture and then a Hypo Mojave. For me anyways the addition of the Hypo genes seems to really show an easily visual difference. Not sure where to send you perhaps N.E.R.D. or V.P.I sites that you can see both Mojave and Hypo Mojave to compare them.

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The SnakeKeeper has Mojaves and Hypo Mojaves.

-adam

Oh thanks Daniel and Adam! I couldn't remember which would be the best to reference to. Is it only to my eye but it seems the Mojave/Hypo Mojave really show a startling, obvious difference more than some other morphs?



~~Jo~~

The hypo morph is one of those morphs that pictures just really don't do much justice for the true appearance of the animal in person. I promise, there would be NO mistaking a hypo for a pastel in person. Hypos just sorta glow, its hard to describe- if you aren't fortunate enough to own one or have friends with these morphs to see in person, go to a show and check some out.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

if you aren't fortunate enough to own one or have friends with these morphs to see in person, go to a show and check some out.

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Look at me go, another derail question...do many/most/all breeders bring all/quite a bit of their stock, even of the rare, expensives ones, to shows? I'm just wondering because I would guess there would be a lot of liability and stress for those special, rare and expensive animals.

Take a look at EBN's site (the parent company to Ball Python Morphs) and the 2005 Daytona pics they have up on their site... You'll see brand new imports, blue eyed lucy's, fireballs, all kinds of things you've probably never even seen before...

It doesn't seem that anyone has too much of a problem bringing their high tag items to the shows with them. :)

Thanks for the info. Those were some great comparison pics. Now I see the difference, and my want list is growing by leaps and bounds. Dang I need to win the lotery. LOL Have to breed the two I have and make a little cashflow to obtain some of the finer snakes. He he thanks everyone!!!!

Josh,


Or you could do what some of us who are "financially challenged" are doing. Get normal girls and some 100% het males, which are more reasonably priced for our wallets!

Adam always has nice animals available (as evidenced by his pictures). I'm getting a 100% het pied male and 100% het hypo male from Adam and maybe something else (just haven't decided what yet) and I'm also getting a 100% het clown male from a breeder here in GA.

I chose to work with recessives for two reasons. One, I love many of the recessive morphs and two, the het males are priced within my financial means.

It may take me a little while longer before I see a visual morph (because I'll have to hold back all the female offspring resulting from the breeding of the het males to the normal girls, which will be 50% possible hets, and raise them to breeding age and breed back to dad, or another het male if I've picked up additional ones).

Then come trades to get into other morphs! One day, one day!

You have a point and it makes for more fun, and a larger collection. I am about to ask a question, but I think it deserves its own thread so I will ask it there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

This is a hypo ...

http://8ballpythons.com/uploads/hypo-03280501.jpg

-adam

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Adam you say this is a Hypo. Is this a hypo pastel? I thought the hypo morph gave the snakes the always need a shed look. Is that true? I just happen to be rereading this thread to get more understanding and looked at your picture again. This is after I thought I had it figured out. Thanks a bunch Adam.

I don't remember where it was... (so lotsa help there Ken, gee thanks for all the great info lol) But I saw a side x side pic of a normal and a hypo in shed and the difference was breathtaking... if I can dig up the pic, or find where I saw it, I'll let ya know. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

Adam you say this is a Hypo.

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Yup ... because that's what it is. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

Is this a hypo pastel?

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Nope ... just a regular ole hypo. Amazing what you can do with selective breeding, isn't it. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JB_Orchidguy

I thought the hypo morph gave the snakes the always need a shed look. Is that true?

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No. Not true at all. Hypomelanism is a genetic trait like say ... blue eyes. Some people have bright blue eyes, some peoples blue eyes almost look hazel ... but they ALL carry the genes needed to make blue eyes.

Same with hypos ... some are bright, some are dull, some looks like they are in a constant state of shed ... but they are ALL hypos. Why? Because they all carry the genes needed to make them hypos and to pass on to their offspring in order to make more hypos.

-adam

ok so I need to still look up some more on Hypo then. Because that snake still looks like a pastel to me. I get what your saying about one persons blue eyes may be bright while the others no so bright, but I;m jsut not getting the what makes it a hypo side. I will try to loo some more. I thought I had it down with the constant state of shed look, but since thats not it I'm back to the drawing board. Thanks guys for helping me to understand. I will get it eventualy. My gills are still green.

You know, it's funny. While I can look at that picture of Adam's hypo, I can clearly tell it's a hypo and not a pastel, but I can't explain "why" I can tell. I was going to say faded head, but pastels can have faded heads, so that's not it. I was going to say that I've not seen that bright yellow in a pastel, but that doesn't necessarily mean there isn't one, just that "I" haven't seen an example of one. But somehow, for me, the difference between pastel and hypo is easily distinguishable. Wow, I wasn't much help now, was I?

LOL Well, Its understandable. I can look at an orchid even one that someone hasn't told me its an orchid and I can tell you its an orchid. Many times I can narrow down the species. I used to call all orchids in the Cattleya alliance family a cattleya, but now I can distinguish many apart. Not all, but many, but there is also a large number of those too. I just have experience with orchids and not with the Morphs of a BP. I can look and say that its a BP, but still lacking on some of the morphs, but its ok. So its not anyones lack of explination, because many have been great. I'm just trying to compair them to a normal to see the difference. I know these are mutations and are different in every snake. Looking at pictures is good, but the real thing would be better. All though thats not going to happen for a little while. Just bare with me I will get it eventualy.


I have an idea. What about say Adam if he has the time or some other person with a bunch of morph pics post them in one thread. Then not label them and see how many people can match the name of the morph to the picture. Lock the thread for a coupole of days and let people get their answers in order and then open it say a day or two later and let people post their answers and see how many each person got correct. It would be a good contest and learning experience. If it was a contest then the answers would need to be PMed so that they do not give it away to the other folks, but I still think it would be a good learning tool for people like me who are still having a hard time with it. I duno just an idea.

I know I haven't proven myself yet as one to stick with it because I am still new, but since there is so many people willing to help I am willing to learn. Thanks everyone!

Its me again. I have been doing some more research on Hypos, and I found this one one site, and its sites like this that lead me to believe what I believed about Hypos and why I thought Adams snake was a pastel. Here is a link to the picture I found of a pastel. According to this website this is a [pastel and to me it looks just like Adams Hypo.

http://www.vmsherp.com/ImagePages/Balls/PastelBall.htm
Now here is a pic of thier hypo.
http://www.vmsherp.com/ImagePages/Balls/GhostBall.htm
It has the washed out look I associated with Ghost/hypo BPs.
Acording to their description of the hypo they say
"Hypomelanistic. Absolutely spectacular Ball Pythons! Completely lacking any true black pigment in the epidermal layers, there are only traces remaining in some of the deeper layers of the skin. Even the shed skin lacks all pigmentation. This gives the snake a pale 'ghostly' coloration and these snakes glow!"

I didn't see this in Adams Hypo. I see the faded blushing, but thats apparent in the pastels too. It seems that most of the things I read say that the hypo's have the washed out needing to shed look as in that one in the picture. Also their ghost looks to me like its a ghost pastel too. I duno.

Adam, isn't that the hypo from a yellow hypo x butterscotch hypo pairing? ha ha...that pic is one of the reasons I wanted to start a hypo project....you have any yellow hypos or hets planned for this year?...

Josh...they still look completely different to me.....maybe you are having trouble because there are many different types of hypos and pastels....they all do not look identical and some are great quality while some are not...there are probably 10+ genetic lines of each out there. That leaves alot of animals that are named the same, but look slightly different. There are butterscotch, burgundy, yellow, orange, green, frosted and a few other types of hypos out there. With pastels there are lemons, Graziani, Blonde, BHB, Stonewash, Enchi, VPI....the list goes on. If you look at A LOT of pictures from A LOT of different places, you will begin to notice the common qualities of each a pastel and a hypo....and if you still can't tell the difference.....you will just have to see them in person because when you see them there will be no doubt that they are completely different snakes ;)

The same goes for hypo-pastels.....it all depends on the genetics of the hypo and pastel that created them. I have seen some hypo-pastels that looked like nice pastels.....but then I have seen hypo-pastels that will light you on fire....

....thats why if anyone is getting into morphs, they should buy from a good breeder that has excellent breeding stock.....because who really wants an average looking hypo when they can have a SCREAMER like the one in Adam's pic? :D

That seems to be what Adam was saying and that clears it up a little more. TY I guess I am doing what I always do when I get into something new. I want to learn everything all at once and dive in head first. Well it leads me to get lost sometimes, and mixxed up like with this situation. I still cannot see it yet, but thats fine I will in due time. Thank you everyone for taking the time to assist me with this head first dive into the unknown!! You guys/gals rock thanks!


So I take it that something like what I linked to woulc bbe considered a stonewashed because of the ghost apearance or something? Or am I still a little off base? Thanks again.

Josh,


In the examples you posted, the pastel looks like a pastel and nothing about it looks hypo to me. It doesn't "pop" like Adam's hypo. Geesh, I still can't explain how I can tell. :oops:

Interesting note on that VMS ghost in the link. I just happened to stop by the pet store right after it's mother or grandmother (not sure which generation he pictured) was brought in as a stunning 1000 gram animal. The story was she was sold as a ch normal through the same store and the guy had just brought her back because she was too big. I don't know what they paid him for her but the manager was trying to sell her for $800. This was very shortly before NERD came out with the first ghost combos. The store owner ended up with her and paired her with a generic ghost male bought on KingSnake and produced a slew of ghost with them the very next year. The price of their decedents has been one of the very few morphs to go up consistently. Maybe starting low discouraged making as many ghost hets early on. Sean at VMS bougth some of those offspring and was surprised to find he could sell thier offspring for even more than he paid.

Now that is what I call Lucky. I wish I had gotten ingo BP morphs when I first got my BPs about 12 or so years ago, but thsta ok. I am still learning and will get into it sooner or later. I am still learning. Thankyou for the help everyone.