Spiders and Pastels...

Here are some ingredients of one of my favorite ball morphs...bumblebees!
http://photos.imageevent.com/ghirept...der%20Ball.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ghirept...ize/Spider.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/ghirept...n%20Pastel.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ghirept...20Pastel_1.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ghirept...size/Lemon.jpg

ENJOY!

Oh, I LOVE the last picture of the two of them together! What a perfect couple! :D

Nice pictures - which makes me ask another dumb "noob" question! Is there a preference in breeding two dom snakes as to which is the female and which is the male?


For example, pastel female x spider male or spider female x pastel male - one doesn't make a better looking bumblebee does it? Genetically speaking, I wouldn't think that it would, but it never hurts to ask - you don't know unless you ask, right?

However, I would imagine for someone trying to start in morphs with limited resources, financially speaking, it would make more sense to purchase a female pastel and a male spider vs. the other way around, wouldn't it? Or would it just about wash?

actually female spiders usually cost less than males. so a male pastel and female spider would cost less!


vaughn

Ahhhh hah!!! ;)


So, now Vaughn, you've made me need to ask another question. Why in some morphs, are the females more than the males, and in others, the males are more than the females? Things that you often wonder about, but are too scared to ask in case people are laughing at you (well, ok, not you - ME! LOL)

Hey, I'll take a stab at this one. (although I hate to bring this up, cause I'm just afraid of where it's gonna go) Since Pastels have a super form, the females are higher priced since they are in greater demand. You only need only pastel male to mate with lots of pastel females. But with spiders, males are more commonly used to breed to normal females and thus more in demand. Well there's my take on it. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Ahhhh hah!!! ;)


So, now Vaughn, you've made me need to ask another question. Why in some morphs, are the females more than the males, and in others, the males are more than the females? Things that you often wonder about, but are too scared to ask in case people are laughing at you (well, ok, not you - ME! LOL)

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I'm gonna take a stab at this and see if I get it right. In the case of dominate traits, the male would be more "valuable" than the female, because you can put one "special" male with a handful of different "normal" females and get a bunch of morph babies.

With recessive traits, you HAVE to have that "special" female to make the little morphie babies, and because they're the ones laying the eggs, they are naturally more expensive than the boys. (Just like pure bred dog females are more expensive than males, because they're the ones pumping out the puppies!)

Hope that's right!

EDIT: Doh...you beat me to it, Christie! LOL

Sorry Judy. :oops:

Pastel is a codominant trait, and spider is dominant/codominant. (ACK! Please no debate on that. lol) But I think we've got it right. ;)

When breeding a spider to a pastel, what are the odds of a bumblebee? 1 in 16?
I was not so sure with the co-dom/dom traits. And 2 spiders together get all spiders correct? Some of which should be homo, which will produce all spiders when bred to normals. Please correct this if I am off-base. I am a little shakey on pundit squares with co-dom traits.
wolfy

wolfy,
pastel x spider = 25% chance bumble bee
spider x spider =spiders (homo)(dominant)
homo spider x norm = spiders....(het)(co-dom)

tigerlily,
You got it!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm gonna take a stab at this and see if I get it right. In the case of dominate traits, the male would be more "valuable" than the female, because you can put one "special" male with a handful of different "normal" females and get a bunch of morph babies.


EDIT: Doh...you beat me to it, Christie! LOL

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Not to throw a wrench in it or anything - ;) - but pastel females are selling for more than pastel males and they are Co-Doms. Or is it because of being Co-Dom that the females are more, rather than a straight Dominate?

Who'da thunk that I'd be so interested in genetics?? LOL Not I! :imslow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Not to throw a wrench in it or anything - ;) - but pastel females are selling for more than pastel males and they are Co-Doms. Or is it because of being Co-Dom that the females are more, rather than a straight Dominate?

Who'da thunk that I'd be so interested in genetics?? LOL Not I! :imslow:

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Well, in this case, the pastel female is HET for super-pastel. So it's similar to a simple-recessive case. You need that female gene to produce the supers.

I think they are all cool :headbang:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ARamos8

pastel x spider = 25% chance bumble bee
spider x spider =spiders (homo)(dominant)
homo spider x norm = spiders....(het)(co-dom)

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If spider were considered a co-dom trait, then the above would be true. Spider is currently listed as Dominant, meaning there is no super form. Hence, to answer the orriginal question, Spider males are more expensive because in order to make spiders, you only need one male, and up to 5 or 6 normal females to make a handfull of spiders. With one spider female, you can only get once clutch a year of spiders from a normal x spider breeding.

With pastels, or other co-doms, the females are still just as, if not more expensive than males, because they're so invaluable in creating the super (homozygous) form... just as with simple recessives.

Hope this helps...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tigerlilly

(ACK! Please no debate on that. lol)

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Sorry :)

Ahhh, over looked the dom spider comment. Yikes...LOL

IMO the co-dom / dom arena is quite simple really, it's the recesive / simple recesive that just confuses the heck out of me causing my two brain cells to colide more often than I like. Plus the additional time needed to prove out the hets is torture (for me anyway).