Convict Ball Python

I was just browsing kingsnake.com in the rip-off classified section and noticed this great ball for $15,000...

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=382461

Anyone else smell a scam here?

that is funny....I like reading the classifieds....usually there is a good laugh in there somewhere....

Oh for goodness' sake! If that's a "truly black and white" snake, then I'll eat my keyboard!

what a bunch of BS!!!! I've seen black and whites before....please.....that is DEFINATELY not it. And notice how its convieniently been bred by a spider AND a blonde, and how she's probably gravid already??!!!! More lines to this already big fish story......and notice how trades are welcome.....hmmm.......oh, sure , let me trade my valuable hard earned morph babies for a very pretty normal, at best....

I can't believe everyone is giving this guy a hard time. It's obvious the poor guy is color-blind, but nobody has brought it to his attention yet. :D

i wonder if anyone has called him on it yet? it is pretty blatantly a scam.

I think that guy needs to freshen up on his morphs before he tries to sell anymore snakes.

Even his website http://www.tns-rep.com/index.shtml looks legit. The pics of his collection and whatnot probably are fake or not even his.

ok, ok... I'll call his bluff. I'll give this guy a ring, at the very least I'll work on my New Yorker accent since I left NYC 16 yrs ago. I'll keep ya posted.

By the way, I'm going to be new to this herping thing, wondering if he'll be on the up and up?...LOL;)

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Originally Posted by ARamos8

ok, ok... I'll call his bluff. I'll give this guy a ring, at the very least I'll work on my New Yorker accent since I left NYC 16 yrs ago. I'll keep ya posted.

By the way, I'm going to be new to this herping thing, wondering if he'll be on the up and up?...LOL;)

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LOL! I'm very interested in hearing how this turns out. He could be a sincere guy who's simply overly optimistic about his snake's coloration....but to say it's NOT axanthic, but it IS a true black & white snake....means you're talking about a whole new morph....where'd it come from? Have you proven it's genetic yet?

If his website is for real (and it could very well be...I don't like to convict without solid evidence) then he apparently has a small collection of some very pretty animals, but I don't see any evidence of someone who is able to aquire and prove out brand new morphs.

And that snake seriously did NOT look black & white to me! LOL

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Originally Posted by JLC

but I don't see any evidence of someone who is able to aquire and prove out brand new morphs.

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What exactly would "evidence of someone who is able to aquire and prove out brand new morphs" look like?

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

What exactly would "evidence of someone who is able to aquire and prove out brand new morphs" look like?

-adam

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When you say it like that, I realize that came out sounding quite uppity and snooty. LOL My apologies. I think I've been spending too much time at sites like RDR or NERD where they have detailed information about breeding projects and stories about where various new snakes came from and things like that.

I know everyone has to start somewhere in the business if they want to sell high-end morphs. No one wakes up as Ralph Davis one day. (For which I'm sure he's eternally grateful! :P ) I just believe that if you want to ask for a great deal of money for a snake, you should attempt to build as much credibility for yourself as possible, which might include online/website documentation and pictures.

OK, the snake does not look black and white to me at all!

Will be interesting to find out how this plays out.

OK. First impression - I am almost convinced that this gentleman is not sure what this boid is. He seemed to quick with the responses and would shoot off topic (sometimes) during our talk.

me - Hi, I was looking around for a morph ball and saw your ad on the web. Can you send me some pics of this snake please?

Sir - Yeah, yeah but I will tell you she is hard to take pics of!

me - Hmm, She won't stay still or the pic won't come out right?

sir - She is just so hard to describe. She is black and white, you know, almost looking like a mojave or a lesser platty.

me - Hmm, OK? Well here is my email addy, please feel free to send them for my review, the more the merrier.

sir- Sure thing, I'll get on that in a bit.

It's been my experience to always give someone the benefit of the doubt the first time. I'll post the additional pics when they arrive and let you folks be the judge. ;)

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Originally Posted by JLC

I just believe that if you want to ask for a great deal of money for a snake, you should attempt to build as much credibility for yourself as possible, which might include online/website documentation and pictures.

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Some of the most expensive ball pythons that have ever been bought or sold were owned/bought/brokered by people that don't have websites.

The kingsnake classified is only a small piece of the big picture.

There are BIG BIG players out there with extremely high end collections that most people have never heard of and probably never will. There are many breeders/brokers that have (or lack depending on how you look at it) credibility that don't own websites, post ads on kinsnake, or have email addresses, but they move some of the most high end morphs on the planet.

Just because a name pops up that doesn't sound familiar doesn't mean that person hasn't been around the biz for many years.

The "behind the scenes" of the ball python industry is another world entirely. ;)

-adam

There are lots of animals posted all the time on the classifieds that say "could be this" or "might be that" ... it's nothing new ... some of them go for big dollars, some of them not so big .... It's usually the same handful of people posting them week after week.

This is really nothing new and just part of the business.

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

Some of the most expensive ball pythons that have ever been bought or sold were owned/bought/brokered by people that don't have websites.

The kingsnake classified is only a small piece of the big picture.

There are BIG BIG players out there with extremely high end collections that most people have never heard of and probably never will. There are many breeders/brokers that have (or lack depending on how you look at it) credibility that don't own websites, post ads on kinsnake, or have email addresses, but they move some of the most high end morphs on the planet.

Just because a name pops up that doesn't sound familiar doesn't mean that person hasn't been around the biz for many years.

The "behind the scenes" of the ball python industry is another world entirely. ;)

-adam

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It's quite true that I've only seen a tiny slice of the high-end bp world. (Would LOVE to see more!)

What I'm saying here is not meant to judge or criticize the snake or dealer that this thread is about. I picture myself getting into this business someday and in so doing, I will make use of every tool available to ensure potential customers that they can count on me to understand what I'm talking about, that I take good care of the animals, and that I will deal with them with 100% honesty and integrity.

Coming from my limited experience, it seems that a well documented website is one of the best tools for that. Word-of-mouth and a good reputation would bolster that, of course. But how does that sort of reputation begin without some sort of exposure to the customer base? And how do you reach the customer base of high-dollar snakes without an Internet presence? (That's a genuine question seeking enlightenment...not an argumentative point!) How does one break into this "behind the scenes" world of ball python breeding?

As for the snake in the picture on the ad....I simply don't see what the seller is trying to point out. But maybe someone does and maybe someone will think it's worth the risk.

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Originally Posted by JLC

And how do you reach the customer base of high-dollar snakes without an Internet presence?

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You make yourself know to the people that actually have the money to spend ... if you're selling $50,000.00 - $120,000.00 animals, having a website and posting on Kingsnake is pointless ... the people with that kind of money to spend could not care less.

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Originally Posted by JLC

But maybe someone does and maybe someone will think it's worth the risk.

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And if they do, more power to them. Lots of "subtle" morphs have proved out to be KILLERS down the road ... I used to crinkle my nose everytime I heard someone say the word "Spotnose" ... I learned my lesson and will NEVER do that again. Only one thing is for certain ... "unless you KNOW, you have NO idea". ;)

-adam

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

You make yourself know to the people that actually have the money to spend ... if you're selling $50,000.00 - $120,000.00 animals, having a website and posting on Kingsnake is pointless ... the people with that kind of money to spend could not care less.

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Now there's an excellent point that I hadn't ever given much thought to!

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

And if they do, more power to them. Lots of "subtle" morphs have proved out to be KILLERS down the road ... I used to crinkle my nose everytime I heard someone say the word "Spotnose" ... I learned my lesson and will NEVER do that again. Only one thing is for certain ... "unless you KNOW, you have NO idea". ;)

-adam

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LOL....I just first heard of spot noses yesterday and at first thought it seemed awfully silly! And I felt the same way about yellow-bellies for a long time, too. Couldn't figure out what was SO special about them. (I know better now!) It seems like the ability to tell "special" from "normal" in some ball pythons is akin to being able to tell what year and what field the grapes were grown in for a particular wine just by tasting. :)

I'm glad we had this discussion. It's really helped me to see things in a different way.

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Originally Posted by JLC

It seems like the ability to tell "special" from "normal" in some ball pythons is akin to being able to tell what year and what field the grapes were grown in for a particular wine just by tasting. :)

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Experience. The PROS always know. ;)

-adam

I'm just so appreciative that Adam is here and shares his knowledge with us. Thank you Adam!

Now...where are those piebald babies...

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Originally Posted by cassandra

I'm just so appreciative that Adam is here and shares his knowledge with us. Thank you Adam!

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LOL ... I'm just a donkey with a big mouth ... half the time I don't know what the heck I'm talking about, but I run with it anyway. ;)

-adam

I am sorry but I am somewhat color blind but that ball doesn't look anymore black and white than my Ozzy
Hey maybe Petco screwed up and sold me a 15k snake :)
True no way to tell what his backgound is ( the snake) but he is saying it is black and white and it aint black and white.

Folks,
I have the additional pics for this thread placed in my gallery. You be the judge. In my opinion I feel this person may have confused his description with another bp. Also, poor thing looks like she got a nasty little burn on her side but she is plenty healthy on the surface.

Oh that burn looks owie...=(

I really hate it when the adds on KS say het for nothing.