Rattie Enclosures!

Thanks to Gin I can finally start breeding rats! Here are some pics of the two enclosures. I have 3 females and one male.

Here is the male all by his lonesome. Can I get another male to go in there with them or will they fight? I was thinking of getting a breedable male to put in there and also a breedable female to put in with the other females. Will that be okay?

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905.../127614055.jpg
http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905.../127614086.jpg

Here are the three females. I didn't have a top for this, but figured they wouldn't be able to reach the lid. I soldered a lot of holes in the top and will be securing it with heavy objects once I move it upstairs.

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905.../127613950.jpg

http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905.../127614032.jpg

So yay/nay?

Male rats don't fight with each other, and actually rats get lonely without another rat with them.

Even with a bunch of holes soldered in that lid, there is not enough ventilation for your rats in that tank. Go to the pet store and get a screen lid and some clips to hold it on. You'd be amazed at how high rats can jump..

Oh.. and it's only a matter of time before the rats chew through the duct tape and make your water bottle fall down and possibly leak all over (or you'll just have some thirsty rats) You can buy water bottle holders that are designed to hang over the rim of tanks.

Hope this helps.

They will also hop on to the top of the water bottle and happily push off that lid. Chasing young rats through your house is not fun LOL

As far as the water bottle if you can't run out for one of those metal bottle covers I think Matt (Smulkin) had an ingenious idea with a soda can. It's posted here on the feeders forum.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=26636

Please do think about a buddy for your male rat. They really are very sociable creatures and need a cage buddy. Our male breeder always has a female or two in with him but once we start a second breeding colony then he and the other male will bunk together whenever they aren't busy with the ladies. You can always use either male as a breeder though I wouldn't put them in together with a female in heat as that might cause issues.

I usually toss in some empty toilet paper tubes or such like to give them something to goof around with and chew on. Bones from your dinner are great also for them to chew on as their teeth never stop growing. Just keep an eye on anything like as far as cage cleanliness.

Good luck with your breeders. We started a few months back and just love the convenience of raising our own feeders as well as saving us quite a bit of money (I was paying $4.99 a live rat locally...ouch!) One of our female rats, HoneyChild, just delivered 2 days ago, her second litter for us....15 big fat healthy rat pinks! I think I love that rat LOL.


~~Jo~~

I also wanted to mention that if male rats live alone, they usually don't have much of an idea on how to go about the whole "breeding" thing. Sad as it is, they need a buddy to "practice" on, and it is very important to their well-being to have another rat of the same sex(or spayed member of opposite sex) around. You won't have a very good breeder if he is kept alone.

Also, if my rats can FLING themselves out of the bathtub when wet, then I am absolutely positive that if that lid is not secure, those teensy babies WILL get out eventually. A secured screen top will prevent escape as well as provide the adequate ventilation that is required for their absolute health. And yes, water bottles left inside cages will get holes chewed in them. The duct tape will also get torn to shreds. I also hope that isn't pine bedding. Babies, as well as adult rats, are incredibly susceptible to respiratory infections and ailments. If that is pine, and they start to have red stains(porphyrin) around their eyes and noses( or dried on their fur-its rust colored), they must be taken off of it. If babies are gasping to breathe, that means they aren't nursing and growing.

As for breeding, the females should NOT be bred until they are at LEAST 4.5-5 months old. This will help ensure that you don't have females dying from babies being stuck in the birth canal because the female's pelvic canal isn't done growing. Males can be bred at around 3-4 months if they are big enough.

I know many of ya'll believe that these rats are JUST a food source for your snakes and should only be kept at the minimum living conditions to maintain life and breeding. But you also have to remember that how you keep your rats and how they are fed directly influences your snake's health. If these animals aren't fed correctly, and are only fed dog food or a "mix" from the pet store, then your snakes and other carnivorous reptiles that eat them will start to show signs of it. By keeping them on appropriate bedding, housing and feeding appropriate foods, they will provide you with huge litters of robust, healthy babies that don't have breathing problems and aren't getting eaten by the mother rats. Mother rats who are overcrowded(or who are even kept with other rats while birthing, nursing, rearing) will cannibalize their young or may not even accept them at all, resulting in a lost litter and money lost on your end.

Here is a good page on nutrition, housing and general care: http://www.rattiusmaximus.com/ratcare.htm

Anyway, I hoped that helped a bit, and if you have any other questions, just ask :)

I got a larger female to put in with the male rat today. He's still too young to breed I think so it should be okay. I also used a wire hanger and customized the water bottles to let them hang over the edge outside. Will they be able to chew through that? And the bedding is cedar I believe...we use it for our ferrets. I also got a new screen lid for the females. I feed them these little lab blocks. Thanks everyone!

They shouldn't chew through wire.

Cedar is about the worst thing you can keep any animal on. It has toxic oils that will make your rats sick. From the looks of your pics though it looks like you have pine. Anyway.. there's better stuff. Aspen is good, and carefresh.. some paper based cat litters.. I'm using hay now for mine. They seem to have fun making nests out of the stuff.

Yeah you're right, it is pine. We use cedar for the ferrets and I thought thats what it looked like. So I can't use pine or cedar, what kind of wood chips DO I use?

Personally I choose aspen for the rats as I buy it anyways for the snakes and I've found it just as nice to use with the rats too. The breeding females especially seem to like it as it's very light and small shred so they can push it into lovely mountains to make cosy nests out of for their young.

Just another thought....as rats are omnivores just like bears and humans...you might want to suppliment that dog kibble with other things that are just in your house anyways. I toss some left over cereal, dry pasta, some trail mix into a plastic container and just give it a shake then add a bit of lab block and some dog kibble and feed that to mine. They also get leftover salad, bones from dinner, table scraps of all sorts.

I'll have to actually do a cost breakdown on my feeding costs per rat produced but I think it must be pretty minimal as most of what they are getting is just leftovers other than the lab block and kibble. Nice of them to turn what might end up in my garbage can into lovely baby rats for my snakes and save me a ton of money monthly LOL.


~~Jo~~

Yep.. mine get a cereal mix daily along with their nutro dog food. I give them treats and leftovers too.

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Nice of them to turn what might end up in my garbage can into lovely baby rats for my snakes and save me a ton of money monthly LOL.

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The ultimate in recycling!!

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Originally Posted by JLC

The ultimate in recycling!!

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No doubt, when I was breeding rodents I gave them leftovers ALOT, rather than throwing it away. Now that we only have a couple as pets, who are getting up there in age, we do give them leftovers, but 2 rats can only eat so much.


Must learn not to cook for a freakin army in my house! I think it is such a bad habit I have cause even though I dont need to anymore with Bri, me and the kids.. I still cook for an army. But habits are so hard to break. Although, not sure I really want to break that habit as it has made is easy to feed others who show up unannounced at dinner time around here.. which happens quite frequently. And it does provide for a dinner or two afterwards.

Yep you can't beat rats for turning leftovers into this.......

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...er4daysold.jpg


~~Jo~~

Awww.. those are so cute!


Anyone that feeds those to their snakes are evil.

Wait till the ratties get bigger so your snake gets a real meal!! ;)

LOL oh don't worry nothing in this house is interested in those 4 day old pinkies. They need to chunk up a far bit before even Malachi, our littlest ball python would give them a second glance.

As far as the cuteness factor, baby cows are born cute too but I personally still love a big old T-bone steak on the barbie. :)


~~Jo~~

Oh Jo! What cute babies. Chunky little ones to start, so thats a plus for sure!

srozell- actually, if that size is all someones snake can eat, what are you suppose to do .. starve the snake till it can eat something bigger and less cute? Nope, dont thnk so.

The fact of the matter is, if you feel someone is evil to feed off something that young, then you had better tell that to those that slaughter our cows and chickens and such.... cause they slaughter baby cows for plenty of food purposes.

Believe me, CUTE does not stop me from having that nice juicy burger or steak or lamb roast..... we all got to eat and there is a food chain for just that.

Well said Jeanne!

The fact is I raise rats because I enjoy knowing my snakes are getting the best quality feed I can personally provide them and I quite enjoy rats as a creature unto itself. I also really like saving money LOL.

Doesn't mean in a flat second I won't grab a rat of whatever size and feed it off to a hungry snake...that's just a fact of life and part of our decision to live feed (please don't take that as an advocation of live feed only folks). Just another part of owning any rodent eating creature really.

One thing I am really big on is the husbandry of my rats. I figure these creatures supply me with a source of food, and save me tons of money so they deserve the best possible existance I can provide. Makes me nuts when I hear anyone being mean to rodents or not caring for them decently....without those furry little critters our snakes would be in major trouble.



~~Jo~~

A little late on this but, aspen for the rats and lots of left overs! Good, we usually have a lot that sit in the fridge until my boyfriend eats them. He can only pound so much with his skinny butt :P I'll give the ratties some extra dog food we have around here...thanks for the replies!

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Originally Posted by JLC

The ultimate in recycling!!

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Actually there is one more step in the ultimate recycling ... Use the rat bedding in your worm bin or garden as compost, so that you can grow the veggies that you are going to feed to the rats. Also the rats will eat the live worms as an occassional "treat".

As aspen bedding is more expensive than either pine or cedar I use a cross cut paper shredder to shred newspaper, and lay that down as a 1/2" layer base. As rats love to dig around it all gets mixed up eventually ... but its also good for compost.

Just feeding regular dog food can give the rats "scabbies". The protein content should be 14-18% (ideal) and must be under 24% (to prevent scabbies). Also regulr dog food is so cheap because of the massive amounts of corn in it. Rats, dogs, and people have a hard time digesting corn, the vast majority of it comes out as waste. A good dog food will have either no corn or corn listed way down on the ingredients list (Nutro Natural for Seniors is a good dog food to use or compare to). Also you will need to feed less and will have to clean up less from a good dog food (usually these CANNOT be bought at your local grocery store, but CAN be from a feed store).

I feed the Nutro Natural for Sensitive Stomachs (my dog has a sensitive stomach) as a base. Each day I also add either tri-color pasta, cheerios, or quaker oats (for some reason quaker oats tend to make my males go into an immediate breeding frenzy). They also get a fresh fruit or vegetable 6 days a week. Broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, romaine lettuce, spinach, all types of squash, cored apple slices (apple seeds can be toxic to rats), and pears are the ones I use (citrus can also be toxic to male rats). Every other week they get a hardboiled egg, the other week they get chicken and turkey bones (with some cooked meat still on them).

Hoods for tanks are extremely easy to make. All it requires is 1/2" x 1/2" or 1/4" x 1/4" hardware cloth and a little patience.

Attatched are some pics of enclosures I modified for rats. The green one is an iris tree storage tub (about 48" long 24" wide and 14" tall) It has a "jungle gym" made from pvc pipe in it (this is a juvenile grow out enclosure). The blue one is one of my first attempts and is used to house females with litters (each female with a litter has her own tub).

Bryan

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...idratcage1.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...idratcage2.jpg