Where do you place your thermostat probe?

I was wondering where everyone places their thermostat probes and why.

Here I go:

I have a strong opinion that it is best to put your thermostat probe directly on the heating element that the thermostat is supposed to be controlling. I have put the probe on the bottom of the enclosure directly above the UTH. I found that this does not work well with plastic enclosures because the bottom of tubs tend to 'sag' when snakes or water bowls end up on top of the UTH and this will cause the temp to vary in different levels in the rack and in the individual enclosure when the snake moves. I also hear of alot of people that like to put the thermostat on top of the substrate. I have never tried this because my snakes would 'move' the probe.....one minute you have a substrate surface temperature of 95, then the snake bumps the probe up a bit and you end up with a 95 deg. air temp in the enclosure. IMO...The probe should be in a 'fixed position', directly attached to the heating element, and insulated from the air for the best temperature control.

I also put mine directly on the flexwatt. I fasten it so it lays completely flat on top of the heat tape. I've had great results. I would hate to put the probe in the enclosure.. what if the snake moves it? eek..

yea i have been wondering this myself.the safest place to put one.humm now where is that?

Slapped it right on the flexwatt - thanks to this forum. Works very well.

Taped right on the bottom of the enclosure (on the outside of the enclosure) sealed up tight with aluminum tape, then the flexwatt is taped with aluminum tape over the probe, on the bottom of the enclosure (on the outside, of course!)

After trying various ways I found that taping it directly to the center of the flex-watt covered with foil tape works well.

I us aspen as substrate but under my hides i use a small towel that i cut out to just a bit larger than the hide. I run the wire for my probe under the substrate and i have a small hole cut in the towel. i tape the wire to the underside of the towel and stick the sensor end of the probe through the hole so that it gets the temperature of the floor of my substrate. it works for me and my BP cant move the probe.

I rig my probe to "hang" about a 1/4" above my flexwatt. On thermostats that run in on/off it seems when the probe touches the heat tape it turns on and off way to frequently. By having that small gap it allows for a much more smoother transitions, so it doesn't cause the thermostat too work as much. Just my :twocents:. With proportional thermostats this doesnt effect it as much.


Bill

Bill....can you go into how your probe is mounted a bit more and your enclosure setup? I had seen the picture the other day, but still had some questions. What keeps the probe from moving around? so you are techniquely measuring the air temp just above(or below) the flexwatt and not the flexwatt itself....I would be would be very nervous that the probe would move and cause temp problems.....have you ever tried using some type of spacer to put the probe in a more fixed position?....just wonderin....I really like to hear about how people have their enclosures setup and their reasons beind it ;)

My T-stat probe is under the newspaper substrate, taped to the bottom of the tub, directly underneath the warm hide.

Just wondering where you guys get foil tape? Can I find it in the hardware store somewhere?

Yep.....and I got mine from Walmart.

Cool.. what section do I look in?

In our walmart it is by the paint and duct tape

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Bill....can you go into how your probe is mounted a bit more and your enclosure setup? I had seen the picture the other day, but still had some questions. What keeps the probe from moving around? so you are techniquely measuring the air temp just above(or below) the flexwatt and not the flexwatt itself....I would be would be very nervous that the probe would move and cause temp problems.....have you ever tried using some type of spacer to put the probe in a more fixed position?....just wonderin....I really like to hear about how people have their enclosures setup and their reasons beind it ;)

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Hi Daniel,

I took a paper clip and bent it to support the probe at the right spot and taped it down with the aluminum tape to the shelf. It is taped to the wire just before the probe with electrical tape. The picture I posted before it is hard to see it, it is hard to get it in the pic. That picture was taken from my rack setup, it is about an inch to the right of the tub (when looking from the front), and approx. 1/4" off of the heat tape. So it is in a rather well guarded space, it would have to move quite a bit to cause a big change in the temp. Yes I am measuring the air right above the heat tape, which seems to be approx the same as the temp inside the tub. I haven't really tried any other type of spacer as this was recommended to me and has worked quite well. I asked many questions of many people when I was switching to racks, so I dont mind them. :)

Bill

That brings up a question i have with my tanks with flexwatt. It seems like I am always adjusting the thermostat for the right temperture. Everytime I look at the cage it is a different temp. I have my probe on top of the substrate. Maybe I should put it on the flexwatt it self. It sucks one minute the substate is 95 deg then 100 deg then 85 deg :confused:

Lurch - check the settings on your thermostat. Make sure it's set to kick on at one degree below your set temp, and turn off at one degree above. When you have an on/off thermostat instead of a proportional one, the temps are going to vary more. I'd put the probe on the flexwatt though..

When I had a Johnson T-stat I had temp swings all over the place. I could never get my temps just right. The probe was originally taped to the flex-watt, then it was suggested to put it in the hide. Finally, I ordered a Herpstat:D My temps vary from 1-2* and I notice I can set the temp lower on the herpstat and get more accurate readings than I could with the Johnson. I used to set the Johnson to 103* to get readings of 92-94 in the cage. Now I set the herpstat to 98 and get the 93-94.6 readings. :clap:

oops i voted for the wrong one i meant to click the on the heating element one(stupid ball mouse- i gotta get an optical)

After some extreme fluxuating temps I called in for reinforcements and asked advice. I was told to put my probe on the flexwatt and I haven't had problems since. I have my corns in a rack and my bp in a glass aquarium for now. Breena's aquarium is controlled by two tstats, one ranco and one helix. I have to say I have much lower temp fluctuations with my helix (not by too much though), but since it's proportional I did notice a lot less "work" by turning off and on as well. When I can afford it it'd be nice to pick up another.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

I also put mine directly on the flexwatt. I fasten it so it lays completely flat on top of the heat tape. I've had great results. I would hate to put the probe in the enclosure.. what if the snake moves it? eek..

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Tape works really well to keep the probe in place.

inside the hide, he lays on it, keeping it on the substrate

I to place the probe from my Helix right in the cage in the bedding(reptibark)
inside his warm side hide. He never moves it and temps have stayed a steady 92-93 always for the duration I have had my AP cage.
I figure that will be the temp he absorbes thru his belly when laying in there. So far it has worked well.

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

I rig my probe to "hang" about a 1/4" above my flexwatt. On thermostats that run in on/off it seems when the probe touches the heat tape it turns on and off way to frequently. By having that small gap it allows for a much more smoother transitions, so it doesn't cause the thermostat too work as much. Just my :twocents:. With proportional thermostats this doesnt effect it as much.


Bill

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So here is my dilemma. Since moving to the new rack system, I have had some temp issues. The tstat needs to be set at 100.8 to get 93 in the tubs. All day long its fine. At night its dropping to 89.5. The room temp is NOT changing at all. The tstat is a Herpstat. The way the rack is set up, the 4" flexwatt is glued (or adhesively attached somehow) to a piece of metal which is velcroed in place under the tubs. On the underside of the flexwatt is reflectix to keep the heat radiating upwards. I pulled off one of the heating units in the middle of the rack, peeled back the reflectix and stuck the tstat probe directly to the flexwatt with foil tape. Folded the reflectix back down and secured it. Aside from the temp issues, I notice the same thing in that the thermostat changes its temp often and goes into heating mode more often. I spoke to the owner of the company and he advised me to tape the tstat probe to the tub floor. Bad idea from my point of view. If it gets dislodged, all flexwatt will run at max temperature. Any thoughts? I have seen this same thing before with other tstats. He said:

The problem is the probe is to close to the heat source. The heat source heats up and cools down rapidly and at different temperatures than the tubs in the rack. You want to put the probe in one of the tubs. Usually in the middle tub on the rack. You’ll get a few degrees difference from the top tub and bottom because of course heat rises making the top tubs warmer and the bottoms cooler.

Is there room to tape it on top of your metal strip next to your tub? I would think that would be the best location for that rack and would give you approximately the same temp as your tub will receive.

ditto, try that. if the flex is attached to the metal strip and the reflectix part is down right? putting the probe on the metal which is facing the bottom of the tub would set the temp of that metal, then adjust accordingly. thermostats can't tell the difference between day/night. everything heats up in the day and cools off at night. even in climate controlled rooms, the house/building cools at night.



vaughn

There is! Just off to the side of where the tub slides. Ill have to see how it does. Ill let you know!

By the way, dont ever try using the temp guns (at least the pe2) on a metal strip. It doesnt show the right temp. Who knew!?

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Originally Posted by kavmon

ditto, try that. if the flex is attached to the metal strip and the reflectix part is down right? putting the probe on the metal which is facing the bottom of the tub would set the temp of that metal, then adjust accordingly. thermostats can't tell the difference between day/night. everything heats up in the day and cools off at night. even in climate controlled rooms, the house/building cools at night.



vaughn

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Check the heating page on www.arscaging.com . That is how it is metal strip contacts tub, then flexwatt adhesed (is that a word?) to metal and then reflectix on the bottom. I never even thought of doing that! Ill let yall know..

cover a spot on the metal with masking tape(no shiny tape) and then use the temp gun. the surface of metal reflects and throws the reading off.



vaughn

Sweet..I'm retarded when it comes to that (and most other things). I'll give an update later. Thanks bud...

So that seemed to do the trick. Now I have to put it at like 97 or 98 to get 93 in the tubs but it seems more stable. Ill know more tomorrrow AM. Now, this is the first time i've used 4" flexwatt. It doesnt seem to me that it creates a big enough hot spot. Anyone? Bueller?

sounds good man, if the back of the tub is in the low 90's, the room temp will be the cool end of the tub. i don't have alot of knowledge with open racks but there are alot of freedom breeders out there with 3 in. flex in them! the flex should do fine. i think the key to open racks is stability and keeping the room warm and humid.



vaughn

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Originally Posted by kavmon

sounds good man, if the back of the tub is in the low 90's, the room temp will be the cool end of the tub. i don't have alot of knowledge with open racks but there are alot of freedom breeders out there with 3 in. flex in them! the flex should do fine. i think the key to open racks is stability and keeping the room warm and humid.



vaughn

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Sounds about right. I'm just so used to 11" flex and that huge hot spot. Seems so thin...

Alright so let me make sure I do this prrrrroperly. I have my rack and my thermostat (Herpstat ND). I place the probe from the Herpstat directly on the heating source and set the temp at about 93.

THEN, i put an acurite INSIDE the cage, and put the probe from the acurite on the warm side. If the temps stabilize and the warm side reads 89 on the Acurite, then i bump up the thermostat to 94, then 95, then 96 etc until my thermometer inside the cage reads properly at about 93??

with proportional stats, i foil/duct tape the probe directly to the flexwatt. this way you are directly controlling the temp of the flexwatt. use an accurite to measure temps in the rear and front of the tubs, adjust stat to get your temps right, this will take a few hours. in my room when i set the helix to 94, it gives me a hot side of 90-93, my room is the cool end at 82-84.



vaughn

cool OK it's beginning to make sence to me now how it all works out. it's so simple...sheesh

I just installed a herpstat 2 and placed the probe right next to the acu-rite inside the tub to see how accurate they are. As a result, I found that the acu-rite is about 3 degrees higher than the herpstat 2. (or the herpstat is 3 degrees lower). I am not really sure why they would be off by this much. The herpstat says accurate within .9 degrees. Not sure the acu-rite is... But still...that would not explain a 3 degree difference. Not sure which one to believe ....

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

I just installed a herpstat 2 and placed the probe right next to the acu-rite inside the tub to see how accurate they are. As a result, I found that the acu-rite is about 3 degrees higher than the herpstat 2. (or the herpstat is 3 degrees lower). I am not really sure why they would be off by this much. The herpstat says accurate within .9 degrees. Not sure the acu-rite is... But still...that would not explain a 3 degree difference. Not sure which one to believe ....

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Most digital thermometers are + or - 2 degrees, so it very well could be off by that much. 2 + .9= 2.9 degrees. ;)

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Originally Posted by Wild Bill

Most digital thermometers are + or - 2 degrees, so it very well could be off by that much. 2 + .9= 2.9 degrees. ;)

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So should I assume the actual temp is in the middle? The actual temp is 1.5 degree lower than the acu-rite reports and the actual temp is 1.5 degrees higher than the herpstat?

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

So should I assume the actual temp is in the middle? The actual temp is 1.5 degree lower than the acu-rite reports and the actual temp is 1.5 degrees higher than the herpstat?

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I would say don't get too neurotic about your temps. 82-84 on the cool and 92-94 on the hot. With a quality stat, trust that it is doing what you expect it to do and spot check occasionally or if something seems out of the ordinary.

I place mine inside the tank or tub and tape it in the middle right above the flexwatt which is on the bottom on the tank/tub.

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Originally Posted by lillyorchid

I place mine inside the tank or tub and tape it in the middle right above the flexwatt which is on the bottom on the tank/tub.

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Bad idea all around. Thermostat probes should never go on the inside of the tub. If it gets dislodged, your temps WILL shoot up to dangerous temperatures. Keep your probes outside the tub where a snake can't possibly move it around.

Another question for all you folks that attach the tstat to the flexwatt. Does room temperature impact the tub temps on the warm side? If you get 93 in the tubs @ an 80 degree room temp....what if your room temp climbs to 85? Would the tstat would continue to pump out heat on the warm side....making it warmer than 93? I would imagine you can only put the tstat on the flexwatt IF your room temps are very consistent. If your room temps vary a good deal, then it would make sense to put the tstat probe IN THE tub to ensure your warm side is maintained with outside temp variances....

is that right?

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

Another question for all you folks that attach the tstat to the flexwatt. Does room temperature impact the tub temps on the warm side? If you get 93 in the tubs @ an 80 degree room temp....what if your room temp climbs to 85? Would the tstat would continue to pump out heat on the warm side....making it warmer than 93? I would imagine you can only put the tstat on the flexwatt IF your room temps are very consistent. If your room temps vary a good deal, then it would make sense to put the tstat probe IN THE tub to ensure your warm side is maintained with outside temp variances....

is that right?

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That is the whole point of a proportional tstat. It increases or decreases the amount of power to the heating element to maintain the proper temp. With an on/off type in a room with unstable temps you will get way more temp swing.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

That is the whole point of a proportional tstat. It increases or decreases the amount of power to the heating element to maintain the proper temp. With an on/off type in a room with unstable temps you will get way more temp swing.

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I understand the pro tstats. However that is not the crux of my question. It was more focused on....if you measure and maintain the temp at the flexwatt, you constantly output X amount of heat. (like a rheostat?) This X heat would not take into account external factors...like flucuating room temps. By measuring in the tub, you are producing the amount of heat required to maintain the snake's environment, taking into account the external factors. Like if for some reason....the flexwatt had to run at 95 to maintain 93 in the tub on one day and run at 100 the next day to maintain 93 in the tub. By measuring at the flexwatt...it would always be at 95.

I could be wrong...thus why I am asking.

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Originally Posted by PipeDADDY

Another question for all you folks that attach the tstat to the flexwatt. Does room temperature impact the tub temps on the warm side? If you get 93 in the tubs @ an 80 degree room temp....what if your room temp climbs to 85? Would the tstat would continue to pump out heat on the warm side....making it warmer than 93? I would imagine you can only put the tstat on the flexwatt IF your room temps are very consistent. If your room temps vary a good deal, then it would make sense to put the tstat probe IN THE tub to ensure your warm side is maintained with outside temp variances....

is that right?

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You are describing a dimmer. The whole point of a thermostat is to keep the temperature where you set it, 24/7.

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Originally Posted by JasonGranger

You are describing a dimmer. The whole point of a thermostat is to keep the temperature where you set it, 24/7.

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Exactly! Doesn't a dimmer produces X amount of heat when set at XX% of 100%, regardless of external factors? By putting the tstat on the flexwatt, don't you accomplish the same thing, albiet alot more accurate? You would produce X amount (94 degrees) of heat regardless of external factors. All this to say, is that it appears putting tstat on the flexwatt assumes a relatively stable external environment temp.

Think about it like this....if one day it takes a temp on the flexwatt of 100 to maintain 93 in the tub. So you set the tstat to 100 and it produces 100 at the flexwatt. The next day it takes a temp on the flexwatt of 95 to maintain 93 in the tub. but you had the flexwatt set at 100, wouldn't it get too warm on the 2nd day? I am not sure this actually happens out in the real world, but I am curious to know.....

Hi PipeDADDY,



Thermostats are best thought of as self regulating VARIABLE dimmers.

so while you are talking about manually adjusting a dimmer once per day a thermostat is constantly adjusting the power output. And since the external temps are "global" as far as the thermostat sensor and tank are concerned I dont think the problem your talking about is likely to happen.

I may not have explained that right reading it back so I'll try again.

Unless there is a breeze blowing in the room to introduce windchill into the equation if it takes a temp of 100 on the flexwatt to make the inside of the tub 93 then that should always be the case. The external temp should only change the amount of energy the flexwatt needs to maintain that temp. This should be constantly changing via the thermostat to ensure your stable conditions.

As long as nothing changes the interaction between the tub and flexwatt (distance/composition etc) there should be a stable (or at least predictable) energy transfer ratio - though I dont have the ability to work it out without 2 mathematicians and a whip.

Does that make sense or should I pull my trousers up and stop speaking?


dr del

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Originally Posted by liam_rokocoko

hopefully i will soon be getting a ranco thermostat, where do you recommend i secure the probe for it?


and is this the tape you use to secure the probe?

http://www.mgreptiles.com/images/lgfoilroll.jpg

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Assuming you are using a UTH, secure the probe directly to the UTH. You can get foil tape at any Home Depot or Lowe's for about $6 for a huge roll that will last a long time.

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