Top Shelf Exotics

I ordered 4 snakes from Top Shelf Exotics on 12/25/05. on 12/31/05 i asked if he would be able to send pics of the snakes to me, i got no reply. on 1/16/06 i asked for pics again and a weight and date they was born on. i still got no reply. I'm starting to wonder why they was snapping off e mails to me left and right when i was talking to them about my order and now that they have my money i cant get a reply back from them. i also wonder if the snakes i ordered are even born yet. the weather is the only reason i cant get them. they wont ship is the night temp is under 35 deg. we had 4 days in a row that the temps stayed in the upper 30s here and i still have no idea whats going on.

from everything i've read they are very good people: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=25580.

perhaps you should try calling and speaking to someone in person.

I also have an order waiting form them and their email communication seems a bit lacking after the sale for me as well. Their reputation seems impecible and I'll be patient. I knew living in Michigan that I might not see her til spring. I wouldnt mind having a few pics of her though, its been over a month since I purchased her.

JT

i have no first hand knowledge of top shelf. but i do expect a certain level of service for my dollar. if someone can sell and take payment over the net, they should be able to email back too! i would also think twice about their customer service level. what if you have a problem with the snake? how do you want to be treated? i'm not saying their bad, just thinking that if service before the shipment isn't good, what about after?

vaughn

I would avoid jumping on someone about email. They could be busy or never got the email. Just send them another email or better yet call them. A lot of the time when someone starts flaming a seller about communication it ends very badly.

who's flaming? these are my thoughts!


both of these guys stated that there were no communication problems until after they ordered? this threw up a red flag to me, and i gave my thoughts. i don't see this as flaming.

oh, if this wasn't directed at me! my bad! lol


vaughn

I have an order with them as well for 3 fairly expensive snakes, I DID hear back after I emailed more than once, I would assume just busy. Just email them again if you don't hear, and be nice. I have gotten two emails since I paid.
wolfy

I meant in general, I wasn't pointing out anybody in pacticular. You do have to remember that they get hundreds of emails a day and they have to go through each one, so if yours gets missed be understanding.

I am understanding about it, i deal with e mail servers at work a few times a week and know they go down. i have sent 2 e mails to them with no response. they don't have a number to call posted on there site. if they wont answer my mails i have sent so far how would i get there number, email and ask for it? now I'm running in circles. lol. my spirits are up and i have nothing bad to say about them yet. i just wanted some advice on the situation. i didn't want to start a flaming session so if someone wants to flame them please start your own thread and do it, don't do it on here.
now in regards to saying someone is flaming them on this thread, I'm not saying that. this is for someone who should come along and flame them lol.

keep the peace :) and does anyone have there number?

Valid point - inquiries are acceptable - flames are not.


I would suggest in the absence of an email response you go to their webite and the associated forums (TSE > Main Directory > FAQ's, Forums Support, Bug Reports, and Feedback ) and there are threads regarding the inavailability of a phone number.

If you have complaints, issues etc I would suggest the best place to have them addressed is with the source itself - your best chance of finding a working number would be through those channels.

Of course since this IS an inquiries forum we would of course be interested in knowing how all of this works out for you.

(EDIT: and as it's only been a couple of days without a response via email remember patience is a virtue!)

I do have the number but I am not sure if should give it out our not. . . what does everyone think?

As the last post was a month ago . . .

. . . better not.

I am sure you'll be PM'd though if someone feels the need.

I just got 2 responses to emails, asking to be sure I hadn't been forgotten. They said still waiting for weather to clear. I don' tmind waiting, I just like to know I haven't been forgotten. So far they are okay to deal with, just have to email more than once if neccesaary.
wolfy

I thought i might ad some latest info on TSE incase some members are unaware of the whats going on with them. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=78572

Wow .... It is hard for me to pass judgement since I have not had dealings with TSE, I just hope that people either get their money or their reptiles.


Neil

I made my order on December 1, paid for it on the same date via Paypal. I order 3 het ball pythons. A pair of het orange ghosts, and a het pied male.
I have recieved nothing but excuses as to them waiting on weather for a while, which I understand. But the last 4 emails have gone unanswered. I sent off one a big strongly worded, as I am really starting ot sniff a scam or someone in over their head. I would work out somethng with them if he has been ill and needs to work something out.
I just want a reply.
Wolfy

Just keep on them about it...and eventually when you are tired of waiting and hearing the excuses take up a claim with paypal explaining what happened, you should be able to get your money back. Just make sure to keep good records of emails and paypal statements.

I hope TSE starts turning itself around, they had such a good rep.

i emailed tse about getting a pair of het ball pythons.there reply basicly said they were not taking any new orders until they have shiped there current/back orders that were held off cuz of the bad winter.oh and they said to try back in a month when all the back orders are shipped.

TSE's "Good Guy" certification was revoked by the Board of Inquiry yesterday.

I'm still waiting for a response also. i was never given one so i guess snakes was the wrong thing to get into.

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Originally Posted by Stings

I'm still waiting for a response also. i was never given one so i guess snakes was the wrong thing to get into.

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Maybe Top Shelf was a bad place to do business. Snakes are a wonderful hobby. Don't let one set back ruin your experience.

Hi folks I just wanted to mention that there is a current thread on Top Shelf Exotics over on the BOI http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...splay.php?f=13 might want to look at the thread. Randy

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Originally Posted by joepythons

I thought i might ad some latest info on TSE incase some members are unaware of the whats going on with them. http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...ad.php?t=78572

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Raven, joe beat you to posting the thread.

this is a $2000 set back, that's enough to ruin any experience for anyone. i read thru some of the posts at fauna and got more and more pi$$ed then i found one from him and then read only his. the only thing i can do is wait it out and hope it turns out for the best if it don't then ill have a 650 gram 05 female for sale. you have to give the guy some credit he is still active in posting and explaining him self. it seems that his partners suck ass is all. i guess i ordered my snakes when the company wasn't doing so good. i did all the research and made sure i bought from a reputable breeder but that didn't get me any further then if i was to buy from a a non reputable breeder. maybe his health will improve and things will turn out and he will ship me 500 gram snakes.

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Originally Posted by Stings

this is a $2000 set back, that's enough to ruin any experience for anyone. i read thru some of the posts at fauna and got more and more pi$$ed then i found one from him and then read only his. the only thing i can do is wait it out and hope it turns out for the best if it don't then ill have a 650 gram 05 female for sale. you have to give the guy some credit he is still active in posting and explaining him self. it seems that his partners suck ass is all. i guess i ordered my snakes when the company wasn't doing so good. i did all the research and made sure i bought from a reputable breeder but that didn't get me any further then if i was to buy from a a non reputable breeder. maybe his health will improve and things will turn out and he will ship me 500 gram snakes.

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He doesn't have partners.

Glenn & Pat - whom no one have ever spoken to are his "employees".

As far as giving him credit for posting - based on what he posted I wouldn't say credit is due.

Paypal has frozen his account.

Furthermore it appears, based on his own statements, that he does not have adequeate funds to refund monies already paid for animals not delivered.

Its time to stop hoping - you need to take action.

The first place you can start is here: http://www.ic3.gov/

I would also encourage you to post on the BOI. Folks who have been scammed by TSE are getting together to compare notes. There is strength in numbers.

This really sucks.I built a rack a few weeks ago and was planning on filling it with some hets from tse.:( from what ive seen they had some of the better prices on hets.Guess I should be glad I didnt give them any money and got involved in this mess.

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Originally Posted by krackerJack

from what ive seen they had some of the better prices on hets.

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Real breeders charge real value for their animals. The big guys know what they're doing and price their animals accordingly. Scammers are always the "best deal in town" ... and now you know why.

-adam

A month ago or so I sent one email to TSE asking about a het albino. Their response? An e-mail billing me for the snake via paypal using the email address I emailed them with, and saying there were only 2 left, hurry up and pay.

That IMMEDIATELY turned me off. With no discussion, no pictures, no explanation or answering my questions, just an immediate, click here to pay me for these snakes you asked about.

Smelled like B A D N E W S


The weird thing was, they didnt have the "best" prices in town, it was just in between scam price and retail price, they had me going hehe.

i ordered my snakes 12/25/05. i asked around and checked out his status at fauna in the BOI. he checked out and everyone had good things to say about him. what else could i have done to make sure i was dealing with a good guy? i trusted the people in the snake community for advice. i got it, it was worthless. so i got scammed along with the people who didn't buy from him by them saying he was great to deal with and a nice guy blah blah blah.

Maybe I read you wrong, are you now trying to say that everyone who told you he was a good guy and they had a good experience with TSE, are also involved in scamming you?

I understand being upset that your deal is going south, but you should probably not try to shuffle blame onto other parties.

Like Adam said, their price was lower than the market price, and combined with others opinions you decided to go with them. People who charge less are less likely to be able to absorb costs, or make up for things when random things go bad. This guy might not be a scammer, but he set himself up for failure in one way or another and is now stuck owing money to people that he can't pay back.(at least that is how it sounds).

As long as you were a responsible first time buyer, and paid with CC or some other means that is contestable, then you should be ok. If you paid with CC via paypal, and paypal is slow, contest it with your CC company. I know the card I pay with refunds my money first, and then they deal with the party i contested.

Good luck, and keep the blame where it is due.

this forum loves to turn things around and read into words not said. i didn't lay the blame on the people who gave me the advice, i said there advice was worthless. i then said the people who said he was a good guy got scammed into thinking he was a good guy. i have a wife and i can handle when words get twisted. i deal with that day to day. i did use a debit bank visa to draw from paypal to pay TSE can i go back on them to get my money back? TSE aka:To Scam Everyone

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Originally Posted by Stings

this forum loves to turn things around and read into words not said. i didn't lay the blame on the people who gave me the advice, i said there advice was worthless. i then said the people who said he was a good guy got scammed into thinking he was a good guy. i have a wife and i can handle when words get twisted. i deal with that day to day. i did use a debit bank visa to draw from paypal to pay TSE can i go back on them to get my money back? TSE aka:To Scam Everyone

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This forum doesnt turn things around on purpose. Remember, it is hard to fully translate what you mean over the internet and some people get confused.

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Originally Posted by Stings

this forum loves to turn things around and read into words not said.

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Whoa there fella. It was stated first thing....

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Maybe I read you wrong

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He wasn't twisting your words, but was trying to get a better understanding. He also gave you a viable option to try and resolve the issue. Yes, contact paypal and your debit card and explain your situation. Ask them about your options.

Oh and watch those cracks about women/wife. They are NOT appreciated. :rolleyes:

I understand that you are probably very irate, but please do not take it out on this community. :)

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Originally Posted by Stings

this forum loves to turn things around and read into words not said.

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Since 'this forum' likes to turn things around so much....here is the information on buyer complaints with paypal.

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...plaint-outside

.....BTW.....I take an insult (like your comment) to 'this forum' personally...people here offer great advice....sometimes WORDS get read wrongly....accept that...it happens EVERYWHERE.

.....or maybe I read into your comment wrongly since I love to turn things around and read into words not said.

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Originally Posted by SnakeySnakeSnake

Maybe I read you wrong, are you now trying to say that everyone who told you he was a good guy and they had a good experience with TSE, are also involved in scamming you?

I understand being upset that your deal is going south, but you should probably not try to shuffle blame onto other parties.

Good luck, and keep the blame where it is due.

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it was clearly stated that

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Originally Posted by Stings

i got scammed along with the people who didn't buy from him by them saying he was great to deal with and a nice guy.

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see that i said they got scammed TO, NOT that they was scammers to. if they would have read it they would see that instead of going off asking me to explain my self.
as for the people here turn things around or misread someone stands to due to the proof in this thread alone. i cant help it if someone doesn't read my post correctly. it happens on here all the time. i may not post alot but i do read the arguments and see how it happens all the time

the wife crack stands.

Ok Stings, if you want to be disrespectful to your wife, that is your perogative. But don't be surprised or offended if some ladies around here (and gentlemen as well) object. That is their perogative as well.


And if you want to disrepsect the forum, you should also expect a little kick-back from those who love it here and work hard to make it an inviting and accepting place for as many people as possible.

The post that originally caused the disagreement here was confusing to read. I'm not one to jump on a grammar or spelling bandwagon, but there are times when someone simply phrases their thoughts in a confusing way and misinterpretations are bound to happen. You should not take it so personally if someone asks for clarification on a confusing point. Of course your statements made perfect sense to you because they were clear in your own head.....but you must realize it does not always come across like that. And getting so utterly defensive does nothing but make everyone uncomfortable and digs a deeper hole for you.

OK JLC i apologize to the people i may have upset here. it was not my intentions. my wife was sitting here when i read it and she brought it to my attention so i posted it. time to put the boots to her for you ladies that it upset. :)

forgot the smiley face, it could have been read wrong. she reminded me to.

[comment retracted]

EDIT: fine, fine, apology accepted. let's just try not to make that kind of "crack" in the future so we can avoid the drama. :)

Sorry stings, I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. I just read


"i trusted the people in the snake community for advice. i got it, it was worthless. so i got scammed along with the people who didn't buy from him by them saying he was great to deal with and a nice guy blah blah blah."


You said you trusted people, their advice was worthless. I took that as an insult to the general community, because people took the time to tell you their past, good experiences, etc, and you throw it back in their faces because the deal with TSE ended up going sour. I could understand you calling it worthless if this guy was a known bad guy all along, and they misled you or did you a disservice by not giving you all the details, but as far as I can see, TSE has been good in the past, and even had a good guy certificate on the BOI until recently.

Then you said "So I got scammed .... by them saying he was great to deal with and a nice guy". I wasnt sure on that because the punctuation (again no insult intended) and that is why I made my post. It sounded like you were criticizing the community for giving you " worthless" advice, and that you got scammed because they didn't warn you. I see now from your explanation that you meant "Everyone got scammed, I got scammed from money, and others got scammed into saying he was a good guy when he wasnt" It makes sense now, thanks for the clarification.

Anyway, I am going to drop this now. You've said this was not your intention I apologize completely for my comments. The internet is a tricky place, lots of people from all over the world, typing words, using words differently, it can be hard to get the story straight sometimes.

Edit: Also apologizing to everyone for this whole thing snowballing. I was busy cleaning rats for 3 hours or I would have responded back sooner :)

More Edits: Because I messed up my grammar like 3 times hehe:oops:

Well I made my final payment with TSE on a pair of het albinos 3/16. After a couple more e-mails they said they would e-mail me when they can send them. So the weather has been mroe than warm, so this past week i started e-mailing again. No repsonse. A couple month ago I asked for pics. They said they couldnt because owner was sick and he had the camera. That BS reading went htrough the roof. I BETTER GET MY DAMN SNAKES

i don't want my snakes, i ordered hets from them. 3 to 4 years down the road I'm sure i will still have normals. he can go to a snake show and buy $100 pairs and sell them as het. ill check with my bank and see if I'm protected or not. if i can get my $2000 ill try to find some local guy or drive to see what I'm getting and buy them. either way they will be placed in my hand from the seller.

So you ordered hets from them? Did you get them? When did you order them?

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Originally Posted by Stings

i don't want my snakes, i ordered hets from them. 3 to 4 years down the road I'm sure i will still have normals. he can go to a snake show and buy $100 pairs and sell them as het. ill check with my bank and see if I'm protected or not. if i can get my $2000 ill try to find some local guy or drive to see what I'm getting and buy them. either way they will be placed in my hand from the seller.

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Have you ever been to the all OHIO reptile show? Also i am sorry that you were taken by TSE and i understand your frustration.The one you really need to take out you frustration out on is TSE in a court room;) .Please do not place all of us in the same garbage can as TSE,we do still have our morals :D .I think the thread on fauna is going to make a record number of posts and veiws lol.Let us know how things go with your bank.

Also with picking up some hets from a show, you have to be careful as well. Invisible genetics make for a common dumping ground for scammers.

I talked to the bank today. they say it has to be with in 60 days to file a claim. i placed my order 12/25/05. that time has come and pass. they will look into it and let me know more as soon as they know more.

The payment went through paypal as well right? You should contact them as well.

i did contact them, they said they will file it but its past the 45 day period

One of the Fauna members who was scammed by TSE is acting as a sort of clearinghouse in compiling a list of folks who paid for animals but either didn't receive anything or received sick animals.

There is a concerted effort over on the BOI to get those harmed by TSE together as a group in order to pool resources/information.

If you would like to be included in this effort PM me your email address and I will forward it to him.


It would also appear that there may be a fund raising effort (donations and possibly an auction) to provide for a legal fund for those who have yet to receive animals.

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Originally Posted by shavemycoinpurse

One of the Fauna members who was scammed by TSE is acting as a sort of clearinghouse in compiling a list of folks who paid for animals but either didn't receive anything or received sick animals.

There is a concerted effort over on the BOI to get those harmed by TSE together as a group in order to pool resources/information.

If you would like to be included in this effort PM me your email address and I will forward it to him.


It would also appear that there may be a fund raising effort (donations and possibly an auction) to provide for a legal fund for those who have yet to receive animals.

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Just so you do not get over run with peoples info i also will forward there info if needed.I am sure this will be a very lengthy process and i hope everyone gets there satisfaction in the end.It is a shame things like this happen.

I cant believe this! I took a brief hiatus from the forum for a little while because I was going nuts reading about ball pythons. I needed a break as I still have a few years before I can breed. So its may now and I wonder whats going on with TSE. Now i find this. I just dont know what to do. I only spent $500, so not really worth the effort to persue legally, especially when people have spent thousands. Is there any chance that things will turn around and be set right or is there no hope at all. I guess should i just cut my losses and move on or keep trying?

Jared