No more retics and burms in NY?

Well I was just reading the Expo cite and found this. People are still allowed to keep them right? http://reptileexpo.com/ny_main.htm WTF!!

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Originally Posted by Cubby23

People are still allowed to keep them right?

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Nope, not for a year now.

-adam

Here is a cut'n'paste from a post I did on another forum awhile back with some links discussing NY herp laws, hope this helps

here is the part governing reptiles. From New york city.

(10) Reptiles (Reptilia). All Helodermatidae (gila monster and Mexican beaded lizard); all front-fanged venomous snakes, even if devenomized, including, but not limited to, all Viperidae (viper, pit viper), all Elapidae (cobra, mamba, krait, coral snake), all Atractaspididae (African burrowing asp), all Hydrophiidae (sea snake), all Laticaudidae (sea krait); all venomous, mid-or rear-fanged, Duvernoy-glanded members of the family Colubridae, even if devenomized; any member, or hybrid offspring of the family Boidae, including, but not limited to, the common or green anaconda and yellow anaconda; any member of the family Pythonidae, including but not limited to the African rock python, Indian or Burmese python, Amethystine or scrub python; any member of the family Varanidae, including the white throated monitor, Bosc's or African savannah monitor, Komodo monitor or dragon, Nile monitor, crocodile monitor, water monitor, Bornean earless monitor; any member of the family Iguanidae, including the green or common iguana; any member of the family teiidae, including, but not limited to the golden, common, or black and white tegu; all members of the family Chelydridae, including snapping turtle and alligator snapping turtle; and all members of the order Crocodylia, including, but not limited to alligator, caiman and crocodile.
here is the link
http://canines.com/rescue/animallaw.shtml

Here is another law centered around wild animals and reptiles
Sec. 370. Protection of the public from attack by wild
animals and reptiles. Any person owning, possessing or harboring
a wild animal or reptile capable of inflicting bodily harm upon a
human being, who shall fail to exercise due care in safeguarding
the public from attack by such wild animal or reptile, is guilty
of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than
one year, or by a fine of not more than five hundred dollars, or
by both. "Wild animal" within the meaning of this section, shall
not include a dog or cat or other domestic animal.
Previous attacks upon a human being by such wild animal or
reptile, or knowledge of the vicious propensities of such wild
animal or reptile, on the part of the possessor or harborer
thereof, shall not be required to be proven by the people upon a
prosecution hereunder; and neither the fact that such wild animal
or reptile has not previously attacked a human being, nor lack of
knowledge of the vicious propensities of such wild animal or
reptile on the part of the owner, possessor or harborer thereof
shall constitute a defense to a prosecution hereunder.
The link
http://www.pawsoswego.org/art26.html

Here is another link to a forum with a post about NY herp laws
http://www.**********.com/showthread.php?t=1529

here is another and from what I read above this law has been signed.
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/pri...?t=12977&pp=40
I know this is long, but it took me less than 5 min to find.
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I think you have to have permits that cost somewhere around $90 a year...not sure though. I remember reading about this a long time ago...haven't seen a burm in a pet store since. Sucks because I want all those big snakes...

My friend (wel actualy his brother, but they live together) has a gator, burm, and yellow belly anaconda all not allowed lol. I think he has permits and his dad is a cop so that probably helps

That kind of sucks =( Just my personal opinion, but I tend to think a dog would be much more likely to do damage to a person than any reptile (barring venomous of course)...a lot of times I think they're just catering to negative public image of animals, but a lot of places have laws against ferrets, and I've read that they've been domesticated longer than cats (anyone else heard this?), so I dunno...can't say I'm not biased at all ;)

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Originally Posted by The Cannibal Monkey

That kind of sucks =( Just my personal opinion, but I tend to think a dog would be much more likely to do damage to a person than any reptile (barring venomous of course)...a lot of times I think they're just catering to negative public image of animals, but a lot of places have laws against ferrets, and I've read that they've been domesticated longer than cats (anyone else heard this?), so I dunno...can't say I'm not biased at all ;)

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The truth is that the animal rights activists want the ownership of all animals banned. They put pressure on politicians to inact laws to make it illegal to even own goldfish. The politicians want to be re-elected, so they won't go so far as to ban dog or cat ownership, but they also want campaign contributions from the animal rights groups so they pick on a minority group like reptile owners .... Since the general public has a stigma against reptiles anyway, the politicians figure that they won't alienate too many voters.

But the problem is, once the animal rights people get reptiles banned, then they have a victory, then they can say ... "Well since you agreed to ban reptiles and there was no back lash, let me explain how rodents (ferrets, rabbits, hamster) can spread disease ... we should ban them too" ... After the rodents, it's birds .... after birds, it's "dangerous" dog breeds ... why not right? ... Well, what do you think they're going to go after once all of those animals are banned?

Stand up, be vocal, and don't give in an INCH!

(ok, off the soap box now) :D

-adam

I'd go crazy if they tried to ban any reptiles I have now. I like to get into heated conversations with herp owners from my area over it. But our WNY Herp Society is a popular and well-known entity of the area so I doubt they'd even consider it locally.

I have a ferret and they're the most non-dangerous animals I've ever had :) Unless you count sock stealing and cheese doodle storing worthy of capital punishment.

Ferrets are adorable, I wish I had the time, room, and money for one! lol


Adam, you make an excellent point. Although I think the overall negative opinion of reptiles will not be changed anytime soon due to their portrayal in the media, I would hope people in general are intelligent enough not to get too swept up in the animal activists' fear mongering...though the ban against pit bulls and other "dangerous" breeds in certain areas is a depressing example of how people will assume one or two bad animals are representative of an entire breed/species. That was just because of one very high-profile story, too...if that's all it takes...well...responsible owners just need to work that much harder.

Sorry if that sounds disjunct, I have a lot of strong opinions on this subjuct, like I'm sure most of you do. I do appreciate the banter =P

Yep.. I of course agree with you all. Every time I hear of another proposed ban - whether it be against pit bulls (one of my favorite breeds) or certain species of reptiles, I get very angry with animal rights activists.

Yes because we all know anacondas lurk beneath the marshes in their tanks and they strike unexpectedly! And everyone screams and the victim flails their arms and legs as they are eaten alive!!! "Look out for those anacondas, we must kill them to free them!"

I hate PETA...I hate them sooo much...

I swear some people get their "information" about snakes from sci fi movies...of course they all grow 30 feet long and kill just for the heck of it! =P And when they get reeeeaaaaalllyyy mad, they can even ROAR!

You'd be amazed how many people don't realize the snakes don't actually behave like they do in the movie Anaconda. My brain still hurts when I think of that movie... so... bad... ow... :dizzy:

I'm confused, does Peta *love* animals or *hate* them? Because they put down more healthy animals than anyone else does and they discourage people from taking care of them. They also just stood by and stared when all those pets were stranded and separated from their owners after Katrina. I'm inclined to think they don't *actually* give a crap about animals. They take advantage of gullible good natured people who do care, feed them misinformation, then take their money.

So I blink when you guys keep using the term "animal rights activists." I know that's technically correct, but they don't really seem to care about animals or their rights at ALL. If they did, they'd focus more on abuse cases and educating people on proper care and less on forcing people to give up pets and euthanizing perfectly healthy animals to save money. You call them animal rights activists... I call them asshats.

Sheree - PETA doesn't care AT ALL about animals. The thing is - they hate people! They want to put animals above humans.. and bring humans down.

An animal doesn't have rights - and shouldn't. Rights are for humans.. and responsibilites are also! An animal can not be expected to have responsibilities. It is the job of the human to take responsibility for the lives of their animals and to care for them the best that they can.

Shelby, you said exactly what I was thinking...it's disgraceful that they use the poor animals as a cover for their "cause", and don't even bother trying to actually help them. It's also a shame that legit organizations such as the ASPCA don't have that kind of support or money (though I did read on the ASPCA site that they don't think ANYONE should own an exotic pet...what up with that??).

Some organizations pose as humane societies when they are actually animal rights activists. The ASPCA is one of those.. there ARE good humane societies, just make sure it really is one before you support them!

The world will always be drowned in ignorance, but that's okay because at least I know I'm not one of them (at least I hope.) It is okay to mildly protest fur coats and some animal testing because some of it is grotesque, but to actually think that people do not love and care for their animals is proposterous. I've seen some animals in bad conditions, but I've also seen so many owners who take care of their pets as well as their own children. As reptile owners, I doubt we'll see a deep appreciation in our hobby anytime soon...but I'm sure as crap ready to MAKE people realize it.

I sure don't think PETA's way of protesting fur is appropriate.. throwing red paint on people is incredibly immature. I have no problem with wearing fur (or using snake skin for that matter). It's a natural renewable resource and plus that there is no pollution involved in it's manufacture, unlike synthetic materials.

Same with animal testing.. it is necessary to keep people safe. I don't believe in 'torturing' animals just to see what happens, but making sure stuff is safe for humans by testing it on animals is just something that needs to be done.

*hops off the soapbox* :P

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Some organizations pose as humane societies when they are actually animal rights activists. The ASPCA is one of those.. there ARE good humane societies, just make sure it really is one before you support them!

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I had not heard they were like that, all I've seen of them is small pieces of the show on Animal Planet and a little bit of their website =( I appreciate the correction; I just wish I knew some that were actually out there to help and were more well known. And, to be fair, I'd also like to thing that some of the people involved with these organizations are not all "crazies", and are trying their best to help, but in the end it's the organization's main purpose determines how good they really are...

A lot of real animal lovers get sucked into PETA's lies and end up giving them money.. that's a lot of the problem. Same with the proposed humane societies that aren't what they say they are.

True that, and PETA is really good at getting celebrity endourcements....even though I had thought the general opinion of them was pretty negative due to media stories and whatnot, getting the hottest female singer to pose practically naked on posters for them would probably make a lot of people forget that. Hollywood has a knack for supporting weird stuff....People should definately do their homework before supporting places like that....I'll be sure to start doing that myself ;)!

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Sheree - PETA doesn't care AT ALL about animals. The thing is - they hate people! They want to put animals above humans.. and bring humans down.

An animal doesn't have rights - and shouldn't. Rights are for humans.. and responsibilites are also! An animal can not be expected to have responsibilities. It is the job of the human to take responsibility for the lives of their animals and to care for them the best that they can.

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That's actually kinda what I was trying to say, I guess I just didn't put it well and shouldn't have started off the Peta rant with a confusingly sarcastic sentence. PETA are asshats that doesn't don't really care about anybody. I don't necessarily believe they put animals above people though, because they don't really seem to know anything about animals or give a crap about their proper care. The "animal rights" thing is just semantics.

What I was going for really was just that if they actually cared about animals, they'd focus on education in exactly what you mentioned instead of all the BS they keep pulling.

Well if you think that stepping on an ant is murder, I think that's akin to putting animals above people. :)

Just a morbid thought....I bet they wouldn't object to cannibalism =P

They'd probably endorse it lol. Hey it gets rid of more of those nasty humans, why not?

Seriously though, they have physically attacked people (sending letters with razor blades in them to laboratory workers) and they support ELF which is classified as a domestic terrorist organization by the government.

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Originally Posted by Shelby

Well if you think that stepping on an ant is murder, I think that's akin to putting animals above people. :)

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Well, good point ;) Reminds me of that tissue commercial with the monk. "It kills germs? Oh noes!!"

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Originally Posted by Shelby

They'd probably endorse it lol. Hey it gets rid of more of those nasty humans, why not?

Seriously though, they have physically attacked people (sending letters with razor blades in them to laboratory workers) and they support ELF which is classified as a domestic terrorist organization by the government.

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Sorry I just had to point out, it's ALF not ELF :giggle: (Animal Liberation Front - or at least I think that's what you were refering to), and yes PETA does endorse them and seems to be trying to head in that direction. ALF fully encourages violence against property or people that goes against their doctrine. :no:

I meant ELF.. Earth liberation front. Both are bad.

Okay... I was staying away from this thread... because of the argumentative nature of the debate that could insue... and you all know me... I would never post anything on this site or any other that's a "hot topic"... but here goes...

I have, in my life, been involved with breeding dogs. It wasn't a huge operation, but I sold internationally, and it was "big enough". Now I'm getting into snakes with the same vigor.

As a professional breeder, I would have NO problem with licensing breeders and distributors that sell ANY animal to be used as a pet/breeder. Keep in mind, that I'm not saying anything about your right to KEEP a reptile/dog/cat/etc.. but in my world, there would be some sort of licensing that takes place in order to be able to SELL anything. That way, we stop the petcos of the world selling snakes without knowing anything about them and in turn get less of the problem of "I bought a burm, and now I don't know what to do with it" or "i bought an iggy..." or "I'm keeping four BP's in the same enclosure.

It's a "perfect world" suggestion/thought... and I'm sure it's not perfect, and couldn't be enforced... and initially it would be a pain for the private breeders.

It's just one of those "you need a license to drive a car, but any idiot can father/mother a child"

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Originally Posted by Shelby

I meant ELF.. Earth liberation front. Both are bad.

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Sorry there April! :oops: I figured you were on the animal track, but my mistake! :imslow: :D

The whole terrorist thing is another thing that makes me loate PETA even more. Sometimes I just can't fathom how these people can believe the things that they do.

ddbjdealer - in theory, that has it's merits, but it'd be a HUGE undertaking to say the least. Plus that.. would the licenses cost money? Probably.. then it would discourage young enthusiasts from breeding that first pair of $20 cornsnakes because they can't afford the license. I do think petstores should have more regulations on their standards of keeping animals.. BUT the standards should be drawn up by someone who is involved with the animals and actuallly knows about them - not some joe shmoe who thinks snakes need 'lots of breathing room, and toys too! can't let those poor animals get bored!' :P

Not to push anyone's buttons, but I'd just like to say that although petco and petsmart are more than lacking in the information department (to put it nicely), the ones around here at least make a very obvious attempt to keep their stores clean and their animals in good condition, and they do seem to encourage education quite a bit. I can't remember the number of times I've walked into local pet shops as a child and seen animals being kept in sickening condition; I wouldn't even want to TRY and get info from places like that. Feel free to disagree with this (I'm sure some of you will ;)!), I'd like to know what people think about the "chain stores", honestly...


People could easily look at that kind of stuff and think that all animal lovers are crazy, people-hating terrorists...

the truth is that i find in both my locla petcos the birds and rodents are kept quite nicely and the reptiles are clean and well fed BUT the are not housed properly( actually i can only say the for the BPs i dont know that much about housing other herps. but i think that redtails dont normally require and upright tank (like for a tree snake)

Yeah definately I'd agree with that, they just have a pile of them (BPs) in there together....I wonder how many times they have situations where one eats some of the others.

I work at Petsmart (dog groomer) I am friends with the specialty (reptile fish small mammal etc) people, and they're great. They take very good care of the animals. I know not all petsmarts are like it, but they do a wonderful job.

not to dig up an older post, but our petsmart is really great as far as reptiles go. they have very clean enclosures with hides and all that good stuff. i did ask them about housing all those balls together and the fact that they don't really keep temps at optimum measures, and all three people said the same thing: these animals usually sell so fast that it doesn't matter.
which makes sense actually... if you sell out of all your balls in a week and they're all the size of a freaking sharpie marker anyway, then i don't think there'd be a problem.
on the flip side, there's two mom & pop shops around here that are just horrible... ive felt so bad every time i've been in them, i just want to buy up all the animals and take them home with me.

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Originally Posted by kzooherpetoculturist

i did ask them about housing all those balls together and the fact that they don't really keep temps at optimum measures, and all three people said the same thing: these animals usually sell so fast that it doesn't matter. which makes sense actually...

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Excellent!

-adam

i guess that makes sense if they really do sell out fast but it still isnt right. theyre giving the wrong impression to potential buyers.

Uh guys... I don't care how short a time they are in their care, they need to provide the correct enviroment. Anything short of that is irresponisble and just an excuse for not doing what they should. Besides, that is just setting up all those new owners for possible RIs.

well not to start an argument, but what about reptile shows? they are a great place to get herps, but lots of those people bring those animals to show after show every weekend until they're sold.... and i garauntee you they're getting less than optimum treatment there - yet they still end up okay.

besides, i think everyone can agree that even a decent chain pet store is not the best place to get a ball ;)

Reptile shows freak me out a bit, because of this reason, but there is a big difference. Those reptile shows last a couple hours, and good keepers will have them nicely heated before and after. Whereas a pet shop is exposing them to those conditions 24/7.