Saving some leopard geckos

My boyfriend's deadbeat dad bought his much younger brother a pair of leopard geckos (I think that's what they are, just a morph. Correct me if I'm wrong though). Enclosure is the stereotypical bad pet store setup. I'm expecting early feeding trouble from no heat source and no proper hide, one of them to die kind of quickly from cohabitation stress in small enclosure, failed shed from other since no humid hide, and finally death of the other gecko. I'd like to intervene a bit to give one of them a chance.

I'm planning to:
- Provide two to four hides (four would be better maybe with two geckos, but there's not really enough space in enclosure)
- Set up a CHE with a plant thermostat (I don't want to invest in a real reptile thermostat with a good failsafe since the geckos are probably dying anyways)
- Black out back and at least one side of enclosure with paper and tape on the outside
- Add a larger water bowl in case it's not refilled frequently
- Write out a straightforward feeding plan and try to explain it
- Add a thermometer since I have an extra anyways
- Provide some moss and instruct to keep it in a hide and pour some water on it when refilling dish

I don't have prior experience with Geckos so maybe my expectations are too pessimistic here. Any changes I should make to this plan? I don't have a good way to address the space being too small for two geckos, but I'm hoping for a cost effective one-off way at giving this kid a chance to save one. I don't think anyone else in that household is really going to do anything, but I also don't want to make this my problem in the long run. Bf is staying there for the next couple of months, so I at least have access to help fix things rn.

Thanks for any advice, sorry if the post is upsetting.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach.../IMG_4506.jpeg

On second thought I know the room doesn't have AC, so I don't think I can rely on a CHE being left on. Is belly heat through a heatpad plus room being kind of warm (I live in bay area California now) enough to give the geckos a chance until weather gets cold again? Is there some other heating element that would work better without having much excess going into the rest of the room? I remember the CHE setup I used to have for BP put out a lot of waste heat, and even the RHP I use now has some (although that's because enclosure is much bigger).

I'm not a gecko keeper, so I can't advise you about care. All I'll say is that I appreciate your efforts to improve the care of these animals.

I think dakski might be the one to ask- https://ball-pythons.net/forums/member.php?49533-dakski

You could PM him if he doesn't see this thread & show up soon.

I had a leo many years ago, way before I knew much- & I'm primarily a snake keeper, but I too thank you for trying to help these little ones.

For Housing Two Leos (which I would not recommend):

You need two-heating pads with temps dialed in to 90-92F (via thermostat or rheostat) installed underneath on the opposite sides of the enclosure, two humid hides (plastic containers with a hole cut out of the side and filled with sphagnum moss), 1 small water bowl, 1 bottle cap with: Reptivite with vitamin D3/vitamin A acetate (within expiration). The humid hides should rest on top of the heating pads and should be checked regularly for moisture. Clutter in the cage is good because it allows one of them the chance to escape if they squabble.

Don't dust their food items with vitamins as they will lick up what they need when provided powdered supplement.

Make to sure to use dechlorinated water in the bowl and the humid hides.

If you are using crickets--then make sure you take out any that are uneaten as they will bite the Leos toes.

My Leos did not do well on mealworms alone, even gutloaded I would not recommend using them as a single item diet.

A CHE is nice for ambient heat if your room is below 70F, but I've found they mostly rely on belly heat.

The Leo pictured in the original post on the right looks like a Bell Albino.

The two Leos will inevitably fight (when they reach maturity). Watch your hands when you see them fight--if you try to break them up-they will give you a good chomp too....

My :2cent: as a former breeder.

Edit: Your enclosure floor should be solid. If that floormat is reptile carpet: Remove it-they will eventually get their claws stuck in it and lose toes.
If you use sand, make sure they don't swallow any...they are highly prone to impactions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

For Housing Two Leos (which I would not recommend):

You need two-heating pads with temps dialed in to 90-92F (via thermostat or rheostat) installed underneath on the opposite sides of the enclosure, two humid hides (plastic containers with a hole cut out of the side and filled with sphagnum moss), 1 small water bowl, 1 bottle cap with: Reptivite with vitamin D3/vitamin A acetate (within expiration). The humid hides should rest on top of the heating pads and should be checked regularly for moisture. Clutter in the cage is good because it allows one of them the chance to escape if they squabble.

Don't dust their food items with vitamins as they will lick up what they need when provided powdered supplement.

Make to sure to use dechlorinated water in the bowl and the humid hides.

If you are using crickets--then make sure you take out any that are uneaten as they will bite the Leos toes.

My Leos did not do well on mealworms alone, even gutloaded I would not recommend using them as a single item diet.

A CHE is nice for ambient heat if your room is below 70F, but I've found they mostly rely on belly heat.

The Leo pictured in the original post on the right looks like a Bell Albino.

The two Leos will inevitably fight (when they reach maturity). Watch your hands when you see them fight--if you try to break them up-they will give you a good chomp too....

My :2cent: as a former breeder.

Edit: Your enclosure floor should be solid. If that floormat is reptile carpet: Remove it-they will eventually get their claws stuck in it and lose toes.
If you use sand, make sure they don't swallow any...they are highly prone to impactions.

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Thanks, this is very helpful. Since they don't need overhead heat (room will be above 70f) and fighting is inevitable, I'll set up a clear plastic bin as a second enclosure to separate them.

Update: I set things up today. The food, water, and vitamin situation seemed to already be under control. One of the geckos had already been eating, hopefully the other starts at some point now that heat, hide, and cohabitation situation has improved.

I think cleaning may happen less often than is ideal and extra crickets won't always be removed, but things aren't as bad as they could be. I'll visit again tomorrow to double check the surface temps (erred on the low side for tonight because I forgot my temperature gun) and to provide a "spare crickets" container.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach.../IMG_4056.jpeg

It's really important that you do NOT leave live crickets in there, they really can bite the geckos. Creatures intended as prey get hungry too. Leaving moist food for the crickets wouldn't be as good as removing all of them, but better than just leaving them to become hungry enough to bite the geckos.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's really important that you do NOT leave live crickets in there, they really can bite the geckos. Creatures intended as prey get hungry too. Leaving moist food for the crickets wouldn't be as good as removing all of them, but better than just leaving them to become hungry enough to bite the geckos.

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This is why I prefer dubia roaches as feeders. You can confine them in a feeding cup because they don't climb very well, and if they do escape the cup they don't nibble on gecko toes. If you have an escape into your house dubias can't breed at typical home ambient temperatures and they aren't noisy.

Dubias also have more protein and less chitin than crickets.

Sorry I am late to the game.

Quick thoughts.

Two leopard geckos together = not ideal. Good thing you separated them.

@Lord Sorril nailed it.

The humid hides are pivotal. LG's can have trouble shedding and it is very important you give them a moist hide to help, especially with the toes.

GUTLOADING food is also a must, as are vitamins and calcium. I was told, and to sure the validity, to give calcium with d3 and a multivitamin, but not at the same time. I dusted prey 1X a week with the vitamin and 2-3X a week with the calcium and D3. What Lord Sorril says about providing separately works as well.

If you have questions on gutloading - ask. Lots of cheap options out there. Remember, what the prey eats = what the LG eats. Important to give prey nutritious and varied options for food as you are essentially feeding your LG through them.

I used printless newspaper as a substrate and it worked well.

Dubia are great prey. Nutritious, they do not bite (you or the gecko), they do not smell or make noise, and are easy to digest.

Mealworms occasionally are fine but harder to digest and lower in protein.

Crickets are terrible IMO. Dirty, loud, and can hurt the gecko. Also, they won't stay in a dish. LG's do well with a dish for food. Not mandatory, but makes it easier for all involved.

Finally, once you set up the tank, keep it consistent (in terms of location of hides, decor, etc.). LG's will use the bathroom in the same spot 98% of the time. Keep things consistent and they will make cleanup easier for you.

Finally, if you have not already, keep the geckos in a separate room from other reptiles you have for 90 days. Wash hands and touch them last. Quarantine is important but more so if health is a question. Any questions on that, ask.

Good luck and we are here to help.

Keep us posted.

I checked in and the geckos have been moved outside, with the heat pads I installed unplugged. I guess there's no point trying to help a situation like this unless I'm willing to go all the way and take the geckos. Quarantine is potentially a big problem though. I live in/rent one room now, and I don't want to put my snakes at risk. Nighttime temps are as low as 50f here, so I think the only chance is if I take them now and just hope being in the opposite corner of my room is enough to keep the snakes safe.

It's exactly the outcome I wanted to avoid, but I guess I kind of saw it coming when I decided to try intervening in the first place. Thanks for the care advice, at least I know what to do if I do take them.

bf and I went over and got the geckos. I think they'll be ok. It seems like they were just eating mealworms for a bit but at least there weren't a bunch of crickets in there. Switching to gutloaded roaches now ofc. Will try to rehome in a few months once I know they're good, but we'll see how that goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gobuchul

bf and I went over and got the geckos. I think they'll be ok. It seems like they were just eating mealworms for a bit but at least there weren't a bunch of crickets in there. Switching to gutloaded roaches now ofc. Will try to rehome in a few months once I know they're good, but we'll see how that goes.

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I'm glad to hear these leopard geckos are now in good hands. Good luck rehoming them.

I've been gutloading the roaches with apple and carrot so far, and I'll use pears and other stuff occasionally. These are convenient because they're also what I gutload myself with. I've seen leafy greens recommended, but I don't normally eat them, can I get by without bothering with those? Can I also use microwaved variety vegetables (sweet peas, green beans, corn, carrots)? I've seen stuff that says no beans, but idk if that applies to green beans. Lastly, when gutloading apple or pear, should I avoid using the core? It'd be more convenient than cutting pieces off, but I haven't tried it yet because of the seeds.

If leafy green gutloading is important and microwaved broccoli doesn't cut it I'd prefer spinach only. I just don't normally buy it because I have trouble getting through a whole bag before it goes bad.

Before I quit on leopard geckos: My mother took a hatchling of mine with a badly deformed leg. She fed exclusively freshly moulted dubia roaches raised on low quality dog food and apples. The Leo lived to 16 years old before she developed a neurological condition. No UV was involved. The only supplement she was using-was a small bowl of in-expiration date Rep-Cal Calcium with Vitamin D.

I never gutloaded any of my feeders, but I did raise them on apples, carrots, and dog food. At one point I was raising crickets and I had 100's of thousands and the *smell*--dear god it was soooo bad and I dumped them all outside and switched to roaches exclusively...I had about 20 Northern Flickers (birds) in my yard for like a week...and my neighbor mentioned that the crickets outside were *extra-loud* that year...lol...

Fun fact: If you are raising Dubias and you want to give their breeding efforts a boost: give them a slice of orange every day...they are one of the only roaches that enjoys mild acidity citrus. Don't try this with crickets or other species of roaches as they are not adapted. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

....At one point I was raising crickets and I had 100's of thousands and the *smell*--dear god it was soooo bad and I dumped them all outside and switched to roaches exclusively...I had about 20 Northern Flickers (birds) in my yard for like a week...and my neighbor mentioned that the crickets outside were *extra-loud* that year...lol...

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:puke:I can imagine how much those crickets reeked- :O And how happy those birds were...I wonder if your neighbor suspected something? :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:puke:I can imagine how much those crickets reeked- :O And how happy those birds were...I wonder if your neighbor suspected something? :rofl:

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Hahaha yeah, the neighbor did notice something was amiss...she mentioned it to my mother (I was living at home at the time) and she could not keep a secret.
'My son dumped like 50lbs of live crickets outside!' she immediately blurted out. :rolleyes:

"50 lbs. of crickets"!!! :O That would be pretty noticeable...:rofl: (no more secrets for your mom!)