Please help me understand. Our baby passed yesterday

Please I need someone who knows ball pythons well. Our ball python passed away yesterday treat. We recently moved so she’s been rejecting food for about a month. We did feed her right before we moved. She’s been fine showing no symptoms of anything we know. We hadnt taken her to a vet. Theres none nearby. We found her yesterday burrowing with a mouth full of her substrate coconut husk like she was eating it. We flushed her mouth and tried to clean out as much as we could so she could close her mouth. She passed awhile later. Please tell me if anyone has heard of this happening or what could have caused it. My fiancé is shattered as am I. Our baby is gone.

I'm so sorry about the loss of your snake. The best way to find out what went wrong might be to have a vet do a necropsy, but even that doesn't always bring answers, & can be expensive too.

So many questions...if you're up to it?

Do you have any other snakes? Or other pets? If so, what?

How old was this snake, if you know? ("baby" is often a term of endearment rather than age)

How long have you had her? Where did you get her from? (private breeder, private owner, pet store, herp expo, etc.???)

Was this your first snake? (I ask this because snakes are notoriously hard to read...especially if it's your first snake. But even with experience, many owners often miss symptoms.)

So up until you moved, she was eating regularly for you? Do you have any pictures of her? Missing meals for a month doesn't mean much, unless the snake was underweight- then it might.

Did you ever weigh her? What size & type of prey was she eating?

Did you notice her mouth breathing (keeping her mouth open)? Any bubbles around her mouth? Any regurgitations? Any weird looking stools (mucus? blood? poorly digested? odd colors?)

What were the temperatures (highest & lowest) in her enclosure? What kind of enclosure? Was she ever without adequate heat? (like during the move?) What kind of heat sources used? Thermostat?

How much was this snake handled? How often & for how long, typically?

Was this snake ever sick that you know of? and treated by a vet? If so, what was the diagnosis? & what was the treatment?

(I may think of more questions, but this will get you started, anyway.)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm so sorry about the loss of your snake. The best way to find out what went wrong might be to have a vet do a necropsy, but even that doesn't always bring answers, & can be expensive too.

So many questions...if you're up to it?

Do you have any other snakes? Or other pets? If so, what?

How old was this snake, if you know? ("baby" is often a term of endearment rather than age)

How long have you had her? Where did you get her from? (private breeder, private owner, pet store, herp expo, etc.???)

Was this your first snake? (I ask this because snakes are notoriously hard to read...especially if it's your first snake. But even with experience, many owners often miss symptoms.)

So up until you moved, she was eating regularly for you? Do you have any pictures of her? Missing meals for a month doesn't mean much, unless the snake was underweight- then it might.

Did you ever weigh her? What size & type of prey was she eating?

Did you notice her mouth breathing (keeping her mouth open)? Any bubbles around her mouth? Any regurgitations? Any weird looking stools (mucus? blood? poorly digested? odd colors?)

What were the temperatures (highest & lowest) in her enclosure? What kind of enclosure? Was she ever without adequate heat? (like during the move?) What kind of heat sources used? Thermostat?

How much was this snake handled? How often & for how long, typically?

Was this snake ever sick that you know of? and treated by a vet? If so, what was the diagnosis? & what was the treatment?

(I may think of more questions, but this will get you started, anyway.)

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Excellent post my friend !!

Snakes don't typically eat their substrate. What you described (finding her with a mouthful) suggests to me that she was maybe in some distress or pain, & was burrowing & thrashing around in a fair amount of discomfort. I can only try to read into whatever information you supply, but fyi, I've kept many snakes, including BPs, for about 4 decades, so I've seen a lot.

And while I know it hurts to lose a pet you love, I also commend you for caring enough to try to find out what went wrong. We've ALL lost snakes "before their time", & the best thing to do is try to find out why, & if there's any way to have prevented the loss.

Another question: did you feed live rodents (-ever?) or pre-killed/frozen-thawed ?

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Originally Posted by Johnryan

We did feed her right before we moved.

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That could have been your issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm so sorry about the loss of your snake. The best way to find out what went wrong might be to have a vet do a necropsy, but even that doesn't always bring answers, & can be expensive too.

So many questions...if you're up to it?

Do you have any other snakes? Or other pets? If so, what?

How old was this snake, if you know? ("baby" is often a term of endearment rather than age)

How long have you had her? Where did you get her from? (private breeder, private owner, pet store, herp expo, etc.???)

Was this your first snake? (I ask this because snakes are notoriously hard to read...especially if it's your first snake. But even with experience, many owners often miss symptoms.)

So up until you moved, she was eating regularly for you? Do you have any pictures of her? Missing meals for a month doesn't mean much, unless the snake was underweight- then it might.

Did you ever weigh her? What size & type of prey was she eating?

Did you notice her mouth breathing (keeping her mouth open)? Any bubbles around her mouth? Any regurgitations? Any weird looking stools (mucus? blood? poorly digested? odd colors?)

What were the temperatures (highest & lowest) in her enclosure? What kind of enclosure? Was she ever without adequate heat? (like during the move?) What kind of heat sources used? Thermostat?

How much was this snake handled? How often & for how long, typically?

Was this snake ever sick that you know of? and treated by a vet? If so, what was the diagnosis? & what was the treatment?

(I may think of more questions, but this will get you started, anyway.)

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Thank you for your help, i'm gonna try and answer these in order of your questions


No other snakes, the previous area had two dogs one other ball python but never kept in the same room or interacted and a parrot again not interacting. The current area has no other reptiles but a cat a dog and an old parrot.

We believe she was young when we got her , she fit in a tiny fish carrier, she would have been ours for two years in April.


We had her for almost two years , she came from a Petco , they had no information on the breeder last time she ate or her gender we found out she was a girl when she laid her first clutch of eggs.

She was our second snake but really our first snake, we had a corn snake for about two weeks then she discover a flaw in her habitat and escaped we are still waiting for someone to call us and yell, found your snake in my boot. Also we did look untill we moved for him.

Untill we moved she was on a proper strict feeding schedule and she never didn't eat, she would be fussy but would eat. We got an enrichment piece of stone plinth once so she wouldn't get substrate in her mouth when she ate. She wouldn't go near it she climbed the walls and game down from above off a branch. She ate her mousy and then small rats. I have many pictures but none of her in distress would they help?

We did not weigh her we wern't in an area that had many reptile vets and we moved to a place with less, but she looked in good health and monitored her for any visble signs, her mother was very watchfull. She had graduated to big mice small rats and was having no trouble with them

As for that , she was found with her mouth wide open, full of substrate. I was sadly not there but on the phone with her the whole time I was described what was happening, she tried to flush her mouth clean out the husk rinsed with water untill she was able to close her mouth again. she seemed to be feeling better another cleaning was happened less panicked. She did strike once, that would have been only the second time in her life. Not counting when she was blind from a shed and struck right next to her mouse when feeding. We hadn't seen her showing any symptoms like that before she was exploring and climbing days earlier

Her encloser was closely monitored during the move she was kept warm with constant warm packs car heater and lap sitting covered in a travel cage she knew and blankets.

I believe during the high stress of the move my girlfriend gave her limited handing to let her feel at ease but during handing she was giving a warm space to roam and not over handled we are both people with anxiety issues so we got not stressing our snake with to much people,

Again we never took her to a vet so these are things I don't know, but every reptile doctors office in the state called me monday morning..Never sick that we knew of in our care she was an adventureous girl that loved to climb hide stare and go womph when she tried to go uppies to high .


This is all I have for you I believe I thank you for however you can help.

Thank you. I just don’t know what what to do. She was alive and fine then suddenly not and she was never neglected

Please what can I tell you that I’ve missed of or don’t know. I also don’t know forums and stuff. I don’t know what icons photos are.

How long ago did she have eggs? If she retained an egg she could have gone septic and passed.

I tried to edit the above, but timed out, so here's my edit: :P

Johnryan- I asked about pictures of her mostly to see if she was obviously underweight or overweight- either of which can suggest a cause of death. Sometimes inexperienced snake keepers don't know- I can remember more than one that kept feeding pinky mice (!) to their ball python, never realizing they were starving it to death. Being on forums like this for so long, we learn never to assume, & it's never like seeing a snake (& their owner) in person. Also, please realize there's only so much we can guess, much less be certain of, online. It sounds like you were feeding this snake appropriately.

While I'm thinking of it & for your future reference, this can help you find a reptile vet in the future: https://members.arav.org/search/custom.asp?id=3661

But sometimes snakes are so stoic about what's going on that they pass rather suddenly, as yours apparently did. Leaving you to wonder if you did anything wrong, or missed something. (I'm probably covering some things you already know- but I try not to assume.)

I asked about other snakes in the home because we highly recommend a period of quarantine for all new snakes, since there are some deadly & communicable reptile diseases floating around, & it's better to lose just the new one than all the others you may have. If others are kept, it also means careful handwashing, not sharing food or feeding tongs without disinfecting, etc. (It wasn't even clear initially just how long you've had this snake.)

Many or most of us first got interested in keeping snakes after seeing- meeting- some in pet stores, but they're not the best place to acquire a pet snake, unfortunately. For one thing, they don't quarantine, & buy stuff from all over, generally the lower priced animals so they can mark up prices & make money. This means it's unlikely their animals came from the "better sources", which is a disadvantage from the start. Plenty of things can go wrong, either way, but the odds are worse from the typical pet stores. And understand that stress makes animals (& humans too) more susceptible to illness- pet stores (including the shipping process to the store) are very stressful environments for shy snakes. Just know this for future reference.

I asked about what you fed her (live or dead prey) because when snakes eat live prey (any live prey) they may need to be [de-] "wormed" after a while. Internal parasites from live prey can build up in a snake, & even kill them. First they "steal" nutrition from the snake, but they can also cause blockages of major organs, causing sudden death without obvious symptoms (other than unusual stools- so always pay a little attention to what comes out of your snake, not just what goes in.

Another issue with snakes (especially from pet stores & expos) are snake mites. Tiny (hard to see!) crawling bugs that live on the snake (under scales, etc) that feed on their blood. They can literally cause death (when plentiful) by dehydration-blood loss, but also can spread diseases to snakes. You can accidentally transport one or more snake mites home with you (unnoticed on clothing) if you handle snakes that have mites (pet stores often do). Just something to be aware of & to avoid. Snake mites can be miserable to get rid of (their population seems to explode exponentially), & the process to eliminate them is not without potential harm to the snake.

One of the most important things in keeping snakes successfully is housing them correctly- getting & keeping the temperatures (heat) & humidity where they belong for the species you're keeping. It's the hardest part but it's essential, since captive snakes cannot seek out the right temperatures (thermoregulation) they need to digest & survive. Long-term incorrect temperatures cause stress in the snake's body, & that contributes to illness & poor survival. Also, sudden inadequate temperatures (like in the chaos of moving) even when just temporary, can cause health problems for snakes. Ball pythons are one of the species that require more warmth than many others (like corn snakes), so it's essential they have reliable & appropriately installed heat source(s), as well as areas where they can avoid the warmer temperatures in their enclosure.

It's generally best to post pics of your enclosure with more details (exact temps. etc) when requesting help. You mentioned you fed her right before the move- you honestly should have waited, because the stress of travel & the likelihood she'd be without optimum warmth for digestion for a while (even though accidental) could have caused her digestion to fail, & caused illness or a regurgitation (fyi, snakes can die from regurgitation- they can aspirate into their lung) so you always want to prevent regurgitation by not handling snakes after they've fed for at least a couple days, & by maintaining proper warmth- you know that they cannot digest without heat, right?

How far did you move? And how long was the trip? This is winter (I assume you're in the USA?) How was she protected from cold during the move? ANY time I take a snake in my car, even just a 10 minute ride to the vet, no matter if it's summer or winter, they ALWAYS are protected from temperature fluctuations: First, I put them in a secure soft cloth bag. I don't personally like trying to tie a knot in a cloth bag (pillowcases work fine, btw) so I use a wire twist first to close the open end, then fold that over on itself & use a hefty rubber band around that. Never had a snake escape. Then the snake-bag goes into a styro-foam box or "ice chest" for insulation- I usually put some padding in first- crumpled paper or a small towel to put the bagged snake on. IF it's cold out (& depending on how far you're going), fill a water bottle with very warm water (not hot or boiling) & put that in too, to one side under the padding. It will keep the snake nice & warm.

If it's hot out, you can do the same thing but with cool water- I lived many years in the Southwest (desert), & I used to take a number of my snakes to do programs. They always traveled in comfort (I have a "collection" of ice chests :cool:) & never with full stomachs, just in case. OK? I've moved many times in my life & it's chaos, but snakes actually travel very well. I've done a road trip for days with my snakes packed as I just described, with no problems at all, but if you fail to plan, you can lose them either to excessive heat, or excessive cold.

And remember this if you ever have a power failure- I've been thru a big ice storm, no power for days- my snakes were fine, with ice chests & bottles of hot water, changed about every 8 hours. Insulation is the key. You also need to periodically allow air flow in any kind of ice chest or box. Remember to open & shut it now & then (when I changed the water bottles every 8 hours, that was enough, but they were large ice chests also, with a couple of snakes in each one- it depends how much air is in the box too), or you can put in a few pin holes for air to circulate just a little. ;)

I agree that it's also possible your snake had one or more retained eggs that over time resulted in her going septic- we'll just never know. There's no way we can tell you for sure what went wrong, when we have so few details to go on & not even seeing the snake or the set-up (how she was kept), but I've tried to give you plenty to think about, & I hope it helps. And if you have more questions, that's why we're here. We all love animals & we've all learned a lot in keeping them- sharing & discussing both our failures & our successes makes us all better keepers. Snakes are unique pets with special needs, & there's plenty to learn.

BTW, (for future reference) to avoid having your snake swallow substrate*, try feeding on (over) some sort of plate (doesn't have to be fine china, haha). Some substrates can also cause internal blockages if enough is swallowed, or an internal puncture if a bit of something sharp is ingested.

Your snake may also have passed from defects like heart or other internal abnormalities that didn't show up until now. Her death may have had nothing to do with you, but even so, I hope I've given you lots to consider if & when you get another snake. So sorry for your loss. We've all been there.

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

That could have been your issue.

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how do?

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Originally Posted by Johnryan

how do?

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excerpt from my previous (long!) answer:
It's generally best to post pics of your enclosure with more details (exact temps. etc) when requesting help. You mentioned you fed her right before the move- you honestly should have waited, because the stress of travel & the likelihood she'd be without optimum warmth for digestion for a while (even though accidental) could have caused her digestion to fail, & caused illness or a regurgitation (fyi, snakes can die from regurgitation- they can aspirate into their lung) so you always want to prevent regurgitation by not handling snakes after they've fed for at least a couple days, & by maintaining proper warmth- you know that they cannot digest without heat, right?


With snakes, temperatures are crucial. If they aren't kept warm enough, food spoils in their stomach. They cannot digest with just their enzymes alone...they require adequate warmth. You never have mentioned what kind(s) of heat you were using & what the temperatures were in her enclosure. Do you have & use a temp. gun for accuracy? And did she possibly get chilled during the move, or after you arrived, how long did it take for her enclosure to be up to proper temperatures?