Snabitat Build

Hi all! Just a build thread for my new snabitat! Just set up my new 4x2x2 zen enclosure and already stocked it with a rare Ferocious Fluffy Python. It kills its prey using a supersonic scream. Tomorrow I’ll be doing the majority of the setup and then the new snaby is coming Friday AM!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...132ddf72c5.jpg

At the risk of opening a can of worms, what species of snail? Cornu aspersum is pretty complicated to keep legally, but unfortunately very commonly sold.

Edit: this might be helpful:

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/organism-...s/snails-slugs

Hit the button for 'Mollusc Decision Matrix', where C aspersum is listed under the synonym Helix aspersa. There are a few other species listed too, which might be useful to know about.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

At the risk of opening a can of worms, what species of snail? Cornu aspersum is pretty complicated to keep legally, but unfortunately very commonly sold.

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Wow I didn’t know there were snail hobbyists who were so into it that they would tangle with lawyers! But I probably shouldn’t be surprised haha. I bet it would be fun to keep snails :)

PS I figured you were joking but just in case you were not this is a snake habitat. I come from the hermit crab hobby where we have crabitats so I can’t really resist calling it a snabitat!

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Hi all! Just a build thread for my new snabitat! Just set up my new 4x2x2 zen enclosure and already stocked it with a rare Ferocious Fluffy Python. It kills its prey using a supersonic scream. Tomorrow I’ll be doing the majority of the setup and then the new snaby is coming Friday AM!https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...132ddf72c5.jpg

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Zen sure makes a pretty enclosure. Can't wait to see what you make of it. Does it have a screen top?

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

PS I figured you were joking but just in case you were not this is a snake habitat. I come from the hermit crab hobby where we have crabitats so I can’t really resist calling it a snabitat!

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Ah, I get it. "Snabitat" is apparently the name that people give to snail enclosures (I didn't recognize the term, so I Googled it). I guess we crossed wires there. I'm glad I was mistaken. :)

It isn't so much that people are so into it -- it is mostly ignorance (willful and otherwise) of environmental/agricultural regulations and the smuggled history of their critters. The invert hobby is pretty bad in this regard.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Zen sure makes a pretty enclosure. Can't wait to see what you make of it. Does it have a screen top?

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Yep :)

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Yep :)

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How do you plan on heating it?

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Originally Posted by Homebody

How do you plan on heating it?

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You know I was actually just gonna come on here and ask you guys about that. I have a couple of large ultra therms so I definitely plan to install those. I imagine those will likely be sufficient. But do you guys think he might benefit from a heat lamp as well? They make me nervous due to fire hazard. Also, my tat is located in a south facing room and I think it will get a lot of bright indirect sun. Do you guys think he might need supplemental lighting? I don’t think I’m going to get UVB at this time since the opinions I’m reading about the necessity of uvb is mixed and TBH I’m experiencing a bit of sticker shock right now. I mean with the price of the tat and the stand and the snake and the accessories I’m probably spending about a grand right off the bat!

Oh ps what kind of tape should I use to attach the heat mats?

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

You know I was actually just gonna come on here and ask you guys about that. I have a couple of large ultra therms so I definitely plan to install those. I imagine those will likely be sufficient. But do you guys think he might benefit from a heat lamp as well? They make me nervous due to fire hazard. Also, my tat is located in a south facing room and I think it will get a lot of bright indirect sun. Do you guys think he might need supplemental lighting? I don’t think I’m going to get UVB at this time since the opinions I’m reading about the necessity of uvb is mixed and TBH I’m experiencing a bit of sticker shock right now. I mean with the price of the tat and the stand and the snake and the accessories I’m probably spending about a grand right off the bat!

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I'm sorry, but I don't think the ultratherms are going to do it. The ultratherms will make for a nice basking spot, but they won't help with your ambient temp. Assuming the ambient room temp is less than 80F, you're going to need additional heating.

That's where the screen top becomes an issue. Screen tops don't retain either heat or humidity. If you add a heat lamp, it may raise the ambient, but most of the heat you're pumping in there will escape immediately and it'll take your humidity with it. You can cover the screen, but it would be better to just replace it.

Zen's site mentions that the panels are replaceable. I just don't know if that includes the screen top. I suggest that you contact Zen and see if you can replace the screen top with a PVC panel. If you can replace the top, then adding a radiant heat panel (RHP) is what I would advise for raising the ambient. RHPs don't get hot enough to pose a fire hazard and they don't emit light, so you can leave it on 24/7. They, also, don't dry out your enclosure the way a heat lamp or ceramic heat emitter (CHE) would. A deep heat projector (DHP) is another option to consider.

If you can't replace the top with a PVC panel, you can still partially cover it (aluminum foil tape), and add a DHP or CHE. DHPs and CHEs are preferable to a heat lamps because you'll need to keep the heat on 24/7 and the light from a heat lamp will mess with your BP's circadian rhythm. DHPs and CHEs don't emit light.

Sorry. Probably not what you wanted to hear. You should still try using just the ultratherms just to see if it'll be enough. I just don't think it will be.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Oh ps what kind of tape should I use to attach the heat mats?

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What kind of a stand are you using? You may not need to use tape at all. If you do, I suggest aluminum foil tape.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

What kind of a stand are you using? You may not need to use tape at all. If you do, I suggest aluminum foil tape.

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I broke down and ordered the cabinet that Zen makes. I’m not sure if they have a top or if they’re like, open, if you know what I mean. I think they don’t have a top but I’m not sure.

https://www.zenhabitats.com/products...en-habitat-3-0

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I'm sorry, but I don't think the ultratherms are going to do it. The ultratherms will make for a nice basking spot, but they won't help with your ambient temp. Assuming the ambient room temp is less than 80F, you're going to need additional heating.

That's where the screen top becomes an issue. Screen tops don't retain either heat or humidity. If you add a heat lamp, it may raise the ambient, but most of the heat you're pumping in there will escape immediately and it'll take your humidity with it. You can cover the screen, but it would be better to just replace it.

Zen's site mentions that the panels are replaceable. I just don't know if that includes the screen top. I suggest that you contact Zen and see if you can replace the screen top with a PVC panel. If you can replace the top, then adding a radiant heat panel (RHP) is what I would advise for raising the ambient. RHPs don't get hot enough to pose a fire hazard and they don't emit light, so you can leave it on 24/7. They, also, don't dry out your enclosure the way a heat lamp or ceramic heat emitter (CHE) would. A deep heat projector (DHP) is another option to consider.

If you can't replace the top with a PVC panel, you can still partially cover it (aluminum foil tape), and add a DHP or CHE. DHPs and CHEs are preferable to a heat lamps because you'll need to keep the heat on 24/7 and the light from a heat lamp will mess with your BP's circadian rhythm. DHPs and CHEs don't emit light.

Sorry. Probably not what you wanted to hear. You should still try using just the ultratherms just to see if it'll be enough. I just don't think it will be.

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I def appreciate the knowledge! The tank came with a humidity shield that covers like 80% of the top. Also, I wouldn’t count the ultratherms out as I used them for the heat source for my crabitat and they kept it in the high 70s generally and that was through 12 inches of sand! Thank you SO much for all this advice, I’ll let you know how it goes with the ultratherms and if I need lights I’ll get lights and if I need a pvc top I’ll get that too :) The heating situation for balls has always been a bit daunting to me! Can I put the DHP/CHE on top of the screen?

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Ah, I get it. "Snabitat" is apparently the name that people give to snail enclosures (I didn't recognize the term, so I Googled it). I guess we crossed wires there. I'm glad I was mistaken. :)

It isn't so much that people are so into it -- it is mostly ignorance (willful and otherwise) of environmental/agricultural regulations and the smuggled history of their critters. The invert hobby is pretty bad in this regard.

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That is so distressing! I recently rehome my hermit crabs which I had been keeping for about 10 years. I refuse to buy hermit crabs and think they should be illegal to import, or at the very least they should be EXPENSIVE to import so that the number we import goes waaaaayyyy down . It enrages me to think about the ecological damage that we do to the environments that depend on crabs as a base layer of the ecosystem just so somebody can make a couple bucks. And don’t get me started on the fact that 99% of these animals are basically treated as living toys and are either tortured to death or discarded when the kids get bored. All my crabs were adopted from the original purchasers who were looking to rehome. I’m gonna a miss them [emoji24]it was a tough decision to rehome them.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

I broke down and ordered the cabinet that Zen makes. I’m not sure if they have a top or if they’re like, open, if you know what I mean. I think they don’t have a top but I’m not sure.

https://www.zenhabitats.com/products...en-habitat-3-0

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According to the assembly instructions, it has a top. So, you may be able to just place your ultratherm on top of the stand under the enclosure.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

I def appreciate the knowledge! The tank came with a humidity shield that covers like 80% of the top. Also, I wouldn’t count the ultratherms out as I used them for the heat source for my crabitat and they kept it in the high 70s generally and that was through 12 inches of sand! Thank you SO much for all this advice, I’ll let you know how it goes with the ultratherms and if I need lights I’ll get lights and if I need a pvc top I’ll get that too :) The heating situation for balls has always been a bit daunting to me! Can I put the DHP/CHE on top of the screen?

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I'm pleased to hear that my concerns may be unwarranted. I didn't want to put any undue pressure on you. I know money and time are tight.

I've never, personally, used CHEs or DHPs, but, from what I've heard, yes, they can be placed on top of the screen.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I'm pleased to hear that my concerns may be unwarranted. I didn't want to put any undue pressure on you. I know money and time are tight.

I've never, personally, used CHEs or DHPs, but, from what I've heard, yes, they can be placed on top of the screen.

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Honest and respectfully offered advice is ALWAYS welcome with me. Thanks again!!

Ok I got a CHE just to be safe although I’m worried about it heating up the screen that it’s sitting on and being a safety hazard to snek. Do you guys think this is a reasonable worry?

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Ok I got a CHE just to be safe although I’m worried about it heating up the screen that it’s sitting on and being a safety hazard to snek. Do you guys think this is a reasonable worry?

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In theory, possibly. Adequate enclosure design could help mitigate the risk (don't put hardscape very near the CHE). Give some thought to how the thermostat probe will be mounted so that the snake won't bump it out of place or tear it down completely, too -- another safety concern.

Personally, I use RHPs in solid topped PVC enclosures for display-type enclosures. I'm not sure how to advise on setting up the Zen Habitat, since any openings on the top changes the dynamic a lot. It is probably going to be as similar to a fish tank as to a PVC enclosure from the heating standpoint -- just a guess, since I've not used them.

Well she’s looking pretty rough and she still needs a lot of work but I think it’ll serve for the moment! I have a bunch of fake plants and sticks from my crabitat that I will put in as soon as I have the chance to give them a good wash. Since snaby came today I kinda had to make it work as they say. I literally just crumpled up this paper bag and spread it around to give him some cover in there as you can see and as it turns out the box from one of the heaters makes a pretty much prefect snake tunnel. It’s got holes on both ends! The gray hide on the left is from his old enclosure so I’m really glad he has a known hide that is familiar to him in here, although he actually went into this big hide pretty much right away. As I’m typing this I can see that he’s digging under it lol. I prefer to have enclosures completely set up before bringing my animals home but in this case it wasn’t possible unfortunately.

Questions:
1. Can anyone reccomend a digital hygrometer, ideally gun style?

2. I have a digital temp reader, like a little point and shoot. Where exactly should I be pointing it? Like, at the sub? The sub inside the hides? The outside of the hides?

I’ll keep you guys updated as the build develops, which will for sure be rapidly!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3bfc9babff.jpg

Another pichttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b5c241fea8.jpg

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Questions:
1. Can anyone reccomend a digital hygrometer, ideally gun style?

2. I have a digital temp reader, like a little point and shoot. Where exactly should I be pointing it? Like, at the sub? The sub inside the hides? The outside of the hides?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...3bfc9babff.jpg

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1. I use an Accurite. I don't know anyone that uses a gun style hydrometer. I don't know that they make them.
2. You should point it wherever you want to know the temperature. Overall, you'll want to make sure that the max temp in your enclosure is ~90F. This should be your basking spot.

I see you have two lamps. Is one a halogen and the other a CHE? If the back lamp holds the CHE, I'm concerned that the hammock is too close to it.

Don't worry about appearances for now. Focus on meeting your heat and humidity targets. Once your confident that you can maintain those, you can start slowly upgrading the furniture to make it look nice.

Yeah that’s def my focus for sure. Re: the heat lamp safety, I have been periodically touching the screen under the heaters and they are not uncomfortable to the touch but I’ll probably move that hammock anyways. I got the tall domes and I’m hoping that will keep the screen cool, which seems to be working so far. Thanks for the help as always!

Do I need more than one hygrometer? Like one for each end of the tat?

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Do I need more than one hygrometer? Like one for each end of the tat?

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You don't need two. For a long time, I only had one that I would move from side to side periodically. I, now, have two because they're cheap. So, why not?

What's holding the hammock? Suction cups? If so, I wouldn't place it so high in the enclosure until I was sure that it won't fall.

Enclosure set up aside, how's it feel to finally have your ball python? This has been a long time coming for you.

So about my old crabitat accessories, I’d like to reuse most of it. I let it soak in a bucket with soapy water for about 30 minutes and washed it all. Is this sufficient for plastic and fabric plants?

I have this plastic aquarium stump that is super realistic looking and pretty. I have 2 concerns though: 1, can I clean it sufficiently to make safe? 2, is my snake likely to get stuck in it? With hermit crabs you really never had to worry about them getting stuck, they are basically living grappling hooks. But what about snakes?

In terms of cleaning the stump, I soaked it in soapy water, rinsed the inside out as thoroughly as I possibly could, and scrubbed the outside with dish soap and a scrubber brush. It definitely appears pretty clean. I don’t think there’s anything I can do to clean the inside other than soaking it. Do you think that will suffice or should I try to soak it in a bleach solution?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...05f763bb4d.jpg

People whose opinion I respect have recommended this hand held hygrometer (I have not used it). I use Accurites myself, but only as a backup for my own eyes (since hygrometers are prone mechanical failure and user error).

Not knowing anything about crab pathogens, I'd personally consider a bleach soak for reusing materials. One part regular Chlorox bleach in 19 parts tap water, soak for ten minutes, then rinse under tap water and allow to dry for 24 hours.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

People whose opinion I respect have recommended this hand held hygrometer (I have not used it). I use Accurites myself, but only as a backup for my own eyes (since hygrometers are prone mechanical failure and user error).

Not knowing anything about crab pathogens, I'd personally consider a bleach soak for reusing materials. One part regular Chlorox bleach in 19 parts tap water, soak for ten minutes, then rinse under tap water and allow to dry for 24 hours.

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Do you think I can do this with the fabric decorations as well?

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Do you think I can do this with the fabric decorations as well?

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Depends on what the fabric is -- that's a strong disinfecting solution that will likely seriously damage natural fibers. Another disinfecting option is heat (boiling, baking, microwaving), which is safe for some materials and not others. A temp approaching 200F for less than a minute should kill anything interesting.

Again, I don't know anything about crabs so there may be no concerning pathogens at all.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Depends on what the fabric is -- that's a strong disinfecting solution that will likely seriously damage natural fibers. Another disinfecting option is heat (boiling, baking, microwaving), which is safe for some materials and not others. A temp approaching 200F for less than a minute should kill anything interesting.

Again, I don't know anything about crabs so there may be no concerning pathogens at all.

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Probably better safe than sorry! What do you think about branches from outside? I feel like I don’t need to be toooooo concerned in the northeast. I definitely wouldn’t be bringing anything in from outside if I lived in Florida!

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Probably better safe than sorry! What do you think about branches from outside? I feel like I don’t need to be toooooo concerned in the northeast. I definitely wouldn’t be bringing anything in from outside if I lived in Florida!

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Bake them at 250F for an hour to sanitize them.

Do you guys have any tips about attaching fake plants to PVC? Suction cups never held for long when I had my crabitat. Would I have better luck with command hooks?

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Do you guys have any tips about attaching fake plants to PVC? Suction cups never held for long when I had my crabitat. Would I have better luck with command hooks?

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I think so. Use the ones labeled for use in the bathroom. They'll hold up better to the humidity in your enclosure.

PVC can be easily drilled to put any sort of mount that you want up. A plant can be attached to the wall using a zip tie placed around the plant and through two small holes in the PVC. A stronger fix is drilling a hole in the plant stem, then bolting it through the PVC (stainless steel machine screw, with the head inside and the nut outside).

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

PVC can be easily drilled to put any sort of mount that you want up. A plant can be attached to the wall using a zip tie placed around the plant and through two small holes in the PVC. A stronger fix is drilling a hole in the plant stem, then bolting it through the PVC (stainless steel machine screw, with the head inside and the nut outside).

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Yeah that’s def occurred to me! I’m a bit reluctant to put holes in the tat though. When I had hermit crabs I made a fairly elaborate structure out of egg crate and burlap that went up the back walls and all the way around the top of the tank. I even created a box shelf for my “shell shop” and ledges. I’m thinking I could do the same thing again in the snabitat but it would hold up much better because it wouldn’t have hermit crabs ripping holes in it all the time. I could probably get away with just making structures to fit in the corners too, maybe with a zip tie attachment to the metal bars that go across the top of the enclosure. I also purchased a few magnetic logs and I have my old magnetic feeding ledge from when I had a crested gecko. O man it’s gonna look sweet when I’m done with it!

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Yeah that’s def occurred to me! I’m a bit reluctant to put holes in the tat though.

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Consider adding pegboard. I love mine.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Consider adding pegboard. I love mine.

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Good idea! I bet I could get it in brown too. Do you have any pics of enclosures you’ve used peg board in? Also any other suggestions about structure building materials? I’m not really a big one for cement and foam, I like less permanent builds.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Good idea! I bet I could get it in brown too. Do you have any pics of enclosures you’ve used peg board in? Also any other suggestions about structure building materials? I’m not really a big one for cement and foam, I like less permanent builds.

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Sure. I added them to my Children's python's enclosure. Just scroll down through the thread I linked above.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Sure. I added them to my Children's python's enclosure. Just scroll down through the thread I linked above.

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Wow great idea! It sounds like the peg board will be pretty ideal! The only downsides for me is that I am using reptiearth sub and I might need to mist my setup. But yeah if it starts looking ratty I can just toss it. I found a bunch of perches that are meant to attach to bird cages that would be ideal for a snake but I had no way to mount them without drilling holes, which I prefer not to do. But the pegboard would allow me to attach and rearrange any time! I think my old school egg crate and burlap construction method would hold up better to the humidity but working with egg crate is a pain.

You know what else, I bet you could easily dress the particle board up by covering it in some plastic forest print background and attaching fake plants. It would probably help it hold up against the humidity too!


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Ugh I wish I had more energy I have so much to do for the snabitat! As it turns out I’ve had walking pneumonia for probably like 3 weeks and although I’m feeling much better since I started antibiotics I’m still exhausted.


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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Wow great idea! It sounds like the peg board will be pretty ideal! The only downsides for me is that I am using reptiearth sub and I might need to mist my setup. But yeah if it starts looking ratty I can just toss it. I found a bunch of perches that are meant to attach to bird cages that would be ideal for a snake but I had no way to mount them without drilling holes, which I prefer not to do. But the pegboard would allow me to attach and rearrange any time! I think my old school egg crate and burlap construction method would hold up better to the humidity but working with egg crate is a pain.

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Poly would help it hold up to the humidity better. It also doesn't have to go from top to bottom. So, you could install it so it doesn't touch the substrate. Also, as you said, it's cheap. So, replacing it isn't costly. A bigger problem, for you, is that it needs about a half inch gap behind it to allow the hooks to go through, but I sure you can figure out a way to make it work.

But, it's a project for down the road. For now, you should just focus on the essentials: maintaining heat and humidity, security, and getting him to eat regularly. Upgrades can wait.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Ugh I wish I had more energy I have so much to do for the snabitat! As it turns out I’ve had walking pneumonia for probably like 3 weeks and although I’m feeling much better since I started antibiotics I’m still exhausted.

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Perfect. So, you and your snake's needs are perfectly aligned. Leave him alone to settle in and you get your rest.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Poly would help it hold up to the humidity better. It also doesn't have to go from top to bottom. So, you could install it so it doesn't touch the substrate. Also, as you said, it's cheap. So, replacing it isn't costly. A bigger problem, for you, is that it needs about a half inch gap behind it to allow the hooks to go through, but I sure you can figure out a way to make it work.

But, it's a project for down the road. For now, you should just focus on the essentials: maintaining heat and humidity, security, and getting him to eat regularly. Upgrades can wait.

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Yeah it occurred to me that it will take up some floor space but what my snake will gain more in usable verticals space so it’s def worth it. I wonder if they make PVC pegboard.


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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

I wonder if they make PVC pegboard.

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They make metal pegboard.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Yeah it occurred to me that it will take up some floor space but what my snake will gain more in usable verticals space so it’s def worth it.

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I'm having trouble envisioning a ball python with any size to it climbing effectively/safely on anything hung from pegboard. Not sure if you realize what a large and strong snake that will be, and how willing snakes are to work around the clock for decades to try to injure themselves. I'd recommend caution, at any rate. :)

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Not sure if you realize what a large and strong snake that will be, and how willing snakes are to work around the clock for decades to try to injure themselves.

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lol yeah the inherit desire to self harm is definitely something I have not had to contend with in my previous pets. As long as you provide them with a suitable habitat, hermit crabs are next to indestructible! Plus they can regenerate limbs. Well at least I don’t have to worry about him breaking a leg lol. I’ll definitely keep this in mind.

On that note, how much do I have to worry about sharp edges? I’ve heard having some rough stuff around can help them shed and I’m they do have scales after all. How sharp is too sharp?

Oh also I’ve been thinking about enrichment and wondering if snakes like/use hamster wheels or anything like that. People used to put these spinning disks that were like a hamster wheel turned on its side in their tats, I thought a snake might enjoy something like that.

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

Well at least I don’t have to worry about him breaking a leg lol.

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LOL!

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Originally Posted by ROSIEonFIRE

On that note, how much do I have to worry about sharp edges? I’ve heard having some rough stuff around can help them shed and I’m they do have scales after all. How sharp is too sharp?

Oh also I’ve been thinking about enrichment and wondering if snakes like/use hamster wheels or anything like that. People used to put these spinning disks that were like a hamster wheel turned on its side in their tats, I thought a snake might enjoy something like that.

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Things with texture are good -- real wood branches/driftwood, etc. That's what counts as 'rough'. If something seems too sharp, it probably is.

I would absolutely not put in anything like a hamster wheel that has potentially moving parts. I'd also seriously question the utility of anything that's not natural in form or function (plastic hides are OK insofar as they're simulations of natural hiding spots; a hamster wheel/Spongebob statue/lego replica of the space shuttle/Chinese finger trap/etc are not). Reptiles that get stuck in anything will force their way out and either break the thing they're stuck in, or break themselves.

Best to look at potential cage furnishings and try hard to think of how a snake might potentially harm itself with it -- if it is possible, it is probable. A BP has decades of 24/7 of "idle hands", and has all the judgement of a toddler with a permanent sugar buzz and a bad case of the terrible twos.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Best to look at potential cage furnishings and try hard to think of how a snake might potentially harm itself with it -- if it is possible, it is probable. A BP has decades of 24/7 of "idle hands", and has all the judgement of a toddler with a permanent sugar buzz and a bad case of the terrible twos.

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Amen to that! With snakes, it pays to guard against the worst case scenario.