Cohabitation (temporary)

Okay, so I wanted to share a little about my experience and obviously I know there is a lot of people going to say this is bad. But I wanted to see if anyone has experienced anything similar.

I was planning on getting 1 ball python, but I could not decided between the 2 I was looking at on Morph Market. The breeder ended up taking care of me and now I have both. Go figure. lol

I bought at 60" New Age reptile lounge assuming it would be a 1 time purchase that my snake could just grow up in. Of course I would clutter it and make it feel small and slowly allow it to adjust to the larger environment over time.

Well, I ended up getting both and decided I would separate the enclosure and I used a piece of plexiglass to divide it in half. I bought 2 of everything and made the sides basically mirror one another.

I figured a 30"x24"x24" would get me through a year or so before I needed to buy a second terrarium.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...7/img_2320.jpg


Fast forward about 72 hours, and I kept finding them on the other side of the glass and in the same hide. I sealed the sides and bottom the plexiglass, so they were squeezing between the top and the screen. I tried several times to fix it and I thought i had until a few hours went by and I find them together again in the same hide.

The snakes are 3 months and 5 months old, so I maybe at this age it makes them feel safer and more secure?? So after fighting it and finding them together 5 different times. I pulled the glass out and made it one big space.

I rearranged it all and have 6 hides in there and 3 water bowls. I have 2 on the hot side, 2 on the cold and 2 more in the middle. The hot side is 90-91, the cold is 79-80 and I figured they have plenty of space to get away from one another if they feel stressed. But still they are always in the same hide and cuddled up, and it goes back and forth between 2 of the 6 hides for the most part.

They are male and female and I know I cant do this forever, nor do I want to risk their safety at all. So in my head i figured I would allow this for a few months maybe, let them grow up and feel more confident and then separate them again. I will have to do it a little differently or end up buying another $350 enclosure.

Anyway, I wanted some thoughts on this and see if anyone has done anything similar and been successful? I love these guys and I do not want to get either of them hurt. I am feeding them separately and keeping a close eye on them both. They are doing great right now, but I know this is a short term thing.

Thoughts and experiences much appreciated.

Congrats on your two new ball pythons! They look nice and bright!

As for cohabbing: Everyone is going to have their own opinion. My opinion is that it is fine-until it *isn't*. I would separate them before it isn't (which could be anywhere from days/weeks/months/years)...dependent upon the size/quality of the enclosure and the disposition (towards stress) of your specimens.

Also, those half-log hides that are open on two sides aren't ideal for ball pythons. A hide with one entrance, a dark interior, and a tight fit that they can squeeze their body against to anchor themselves in place-is what they want.

Thank you, I appreciate the response.

I need to take a picture of how the space is now. I use the logs as a path from each side of the enclosure and not hides. That way they have cover while moving and feel safe.

The hides I have in there are actual hides and not in the photo I have above. The photo above cuts out the cold sides of what was originally the space when it was divided up.

The real test of how "okay" this co-habbing is for them is whether or not they eat regularly (& also don't eat each other!). Yes, I know that BPs aren't known for preying on other snakes, but neither are rat snakes, & years ago, I had a beautiful pair of amel "black" rat snakes (deep orange patterns on cream) that I put together for breeding- both established adults that had previously bred to others. Both were well-fed days prior to their careful introduction (also with faces rinsed off to ensure no lingering rodent scent on either one- which is something I highly recommend you do as well), yet the male killed & tried to consume the female when I was home but briefly out of the room- they appeared to be fine together so I was shocked when I came back in the room, & I was also too late to save her.

Snakes are predators, & they don't always follow the manual... it's more likely (IMO) that being kept together may impair the appetite your snakes have, but no way to accurately predict. Snakes are not social creatures, for the most part. Just remember that for all new snakes, minimal stress & good nutrition both go a long way to ensure they remain healthy- & also that snakes are much easier to keep healthy than they are to make them well again once they're sick. ;)

One other thing- you say they keep ending up together, & ironically that's one way it's thought that snakes "stress" each other- by competing for the same "ideal" conditions, & one dominates. Just another way to look at it- you have to remember they're snakes. Not like our dogs & cats that may love snuggling together, & they're very hard to "read" (if something's bothering them).

Even so, it may differ for various species- wild rattlesnakes are observed to share quarters & apparently provide some parental protection...so there's a lot of "gray" area that we can't be sure of. Maybe some kinds of snakes are more evolved than others. From the rattlesnakes I've known, I'd say that was true for them. Anyway, I wish you good luck & good guesswork-:D In general, most advise against co-habbing snakes (other than for breeding, which is temporary).

Well, I appreciate everyone's input.

I ended up staying up last night and I separated them again. I used plexiglass again and did a better job at it I think this time. I was able to fasten the mesh screen at the top to wood that I attached to the plexiglass. So I think I solved the problem.

I feel a ton better and I don't want to risk either if the snakes getting hurt or stressed out. I really appreciate you guys!!

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Originally Posted by Jays2balls

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...7/img_2320.jpg

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How's your humidity? The gauges above are reading lower than ideal for ball pythons. If it's been an issue, you should consider covering the screen top.

The temps a humidity are great, I had those gauges out of the enclosure for a while and they cooled off and were not reading the humidity or temp of the enclosure. I should have waited to take the pic.

The hot side is at 90 degrees, and floats between 89-91 as the thermostat turns on and off. The humidity is typically 55-65%. I just took this picture.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...che=1738683214

Haven’t got the energy to go into too much detail but …

I put that 12” hatchling Japanese Kunashir rat snake in temporally with an adult albino Royal ‘Ball’ python for a few days … that became weeks

All was perfectly fabulous .. until one day I saw the hatching trying to devour a jumbo mouse that was about 20 times it’s body weight !

It had managed to get the mouse’s mouth into it’s own …


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichPlat

Haven’t got the energy to go into too much detail but …

I put that 12” hatchling Japanese Kunashir rat snake in temporally with an adult albino Royal ‘Ball’ python for a few days … that became weeks

All was perfectly fabulous .. until one day I saw the hatching trying to devour a jumbo mouse that was about 20 times it’s body weight !

It had managed to get the mouse’s mouth into it’s own …


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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You're lucky you don't have a dead rat snake- the size difference alone, the BP could have accidentally snuffed out your rat snake just laying on it. And feeding when there's 2 snakes kept together is a HUGELY bad idea. :(

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You're lucky you don't have a dead rat snake- the size difference alone, the BP could have accidentally snuffed out your rat snake just laying on it. And feeding when there's 2 snakes kept together is a HUGELY bad idea. :(

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Yeah

It was a perfect storm of bad luck and possibly poor judgment .

The viv had loads of different levels/ hotspots/ hiding spaces which is why I chose it plus the docile nature of the python

They rarely even went close to each other from what I could see .

The food hiccup was the kick in the pants I needed

The young ratsnake has is own place now

As regards the feeding.. it seemed possible given one was on pinkies and the jumbo mice were dwarfing the baby rat snake
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Quote:

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Originally Posted by MichPlat

...As regards the feeding.. it seemed possible given one was on pinkies and the jumbo mice were dwarfing the baby rat snake
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I'm glad the rat snake has his own place now. The thing about snakes is that they aren't logical about what size food they can eat, plus most rely on scent rather than anything visual...meaning, if there is the scent of prey on a snake, the room-mate may very well kill & try to eat him, even if it's physically impossible, & the snake will be just as dead. So many ways things can go wrong quickly if cohabbing snakes- even just breeding snakes has risks. Predators will be predators.

There's also the issue of quarantine- each snake could be carrying germs they are okay with, but a snake from another area (or continent) might succumb to.

Certainly various snakes may cross paths in nature, but that's a far cry from captivity, with so little space.

If there's a screen top (very often a problematic design for BP's), and the RH on a meter that is sitting in the substrate is 66%, the rest of the enclosure should be expected to be a lot closer to room ambient than to 66%. Reading RH by sticking the meter in substrate is something like taking the temp of a room with a thermometer on the woodstove. RH meters also can be damaged by direct water contact (as when the substrate gets misted). I personally don't take RH numbers to be great information on their own, but just FYI.

That completely makes sense. I also have one in the room outside of the enclosure and the ambient humidity in the room is over 55%. I live in Georgia, it is humid here. I will add one to the back wall for that more accurate number though, that makes complete sense.

Maybe not quite as big a deal for you, since if your room is warmish and humid and the substrate not very moist the difference might not be extreme. I live in Wisconsin where the winter air can suck all the water out of your body through your eyeballs and force you to run up your credit card just to maintain a supply of hand lotion. ;)

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Maybe not quite as big a deal for you, since if your room is warmish and humid and the substrate not very moist the difference might not be extreme. I live in Wisconsin where the winter air can suck all the water out of your body through your eyeballs and force you to run up your credit card just to maintain a supply of hand lotion. ;)

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I know that feeling! :rofl:

I used to live in La Crosse WI, so I get it for sure. Not the case here in the south. lol