Temp Problems - Thoughts on what I did?

I moved a few months ago to a house and the new house doesn't keep up the heat very well compared to my apartment (and its not even December yet). Usually, I got by with just two UTH pads and that was it. However, now the ambient room temps are dropping into the low 70's and high 60s. I predicted this so I had a space heater to heat the room to 76-77 but that wasn't sustainable since it was running near constantly. I set up a heat lamp above her cage a few days ago. I also threw a piece of wood on top as well to help block the lamp from heating the cooler side as well and a towel so the colder room air doesn't flow in too fast. There is about an inch gap where the towl does not cover up to aid air flow. For the past few days my temp gun has been reading 88-92 on the warm side (the higher temps are when I'm home and in the room on my PC because it brings up room temp) and 77-81 on the cool side. It's not visually appealing but I think this might have to be my winter set up. I'm of course open to other ideas as well if you have any.

My questions are:
1. Blue vs red light... Should I be using red light only or is a blue light fine as well? A friend gave me the blue light so that's what I had on me. I did pick up a spare red light though yesterday.
2. I remember a long time ago I read something about BP's being fatally allergic to some type of wood. If that's true, I'm concerend with the wood I threw on top since I don't know the type. Do they have an issue with a certain wood and if they do, would you think the way I have it set up could be a problem?
3. Do you see any other potential issues with the set up?

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ank_set_up.jpg

1) Looks like Python regius is relatively insensitive to red light, and very sensitive to blue light:

https://journals.biologists.com/jeb/...igments-in-the

Personally, I would use a non-light-emitting heat source.

2) The wood you're probably referring to is cedar.

" I'm of course open to other ideas as well if you have any." The reasonable setup for a cool room would be a PVC enclosure with a radiant heat panel. This gives a decent heat gradient, and holds humidity. An Animal Plastics T8 is a decent price, ships more quickly than their other items, and is a fine size for a BP (some keepers like to provide more height, and that's good too).

https://apcages.com/collections/new-...8l-x-24w-x-12h

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

My questions are:
1. Blue vs red light... Should I be using red light only or is a blue light fine as well? A friend gave me the blue light so that's what I had on me. I did pick up a spare red light though yesterday.
2. I remember a long time ago I read something about BP's being fatally allergic to some type of wood. If that's true, I'm concerend with the wood I threw on top since I don't know the type. Do they have an issue with a certain wood and if they do, would you think the way I have it set up could be a problem?
3. Do you see any other potential issues with the set up?

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I did glass tanks for several years.

Recommendations:
1. Don't use any light-it is wasted energy (unless the room has no natural light source). Get a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) and a corresponding appropriately rated wattage housing. For a 20 gallon you probably want between 120-150 Watts. Use a glue gun and *glue* your CHE thermostat probe to the wall inside of the enclosure at a little below mid-height. Never use tape. Your ambient target on a glass tank setup would be 82-84F. Invest in a proportional thermostat for the Heat Emitter-it is worth the money since 'on/off' ones kinda suck (in comparison).

UTH and heat emitter should both be on separate thermostats and/or separate zones. UTH thermostat probe should be sandwiched between the heating mat and the outer bottom of the tank as well. UTH should be targeting 88-90F, and ideally would cover 1/3 of the floor space.

Get a temperature gun to measure surface temps and make sure that no point in the enclosure is above 90F at any time

2. That looks like a 20 gallon critter keeper. Put the aforementioned CHE on the wire screen mesh on top on one side, and then use plastic wrap (away from the CHE) and cover the top lid of the enclosure leaving the opening for the heater. The plastic wrap is to maintain moisture. You can additionally cover the plastic wrap with whatever you want for insulation, but, nothing that has a scent (including wood-cedar/pine/or otherwise anything with aromatic phenols).

3. Your water feature is shallow. I would suggest something deep enough for the ball python to completely submerge its body. Water temp. should be between 78-85F...and so the bowl should be strategically placed in the enclosure near the heat emitter.

You can use rigid insulation board and cover the sides of that glass tank to better retain heat.

Anyhow, my :twocents:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Do you see any other potential issues with the set up?

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You need a pvc/plywood enclosure. Your glass enclosure won't hold heat well, and your house gets too cold. While you're waiting for your pvc/plywood enclosure to arrive. You can insulate the sides with foam poster board that you will likely find at your local drug or office supply store. You should also cover the screen top with aluminum heat tape leaving just enough room for your heat source. In a cold or dry house, ventilation is not your friend. Since you'll need to leave your heat source on day and night, something that doesn't emit light would be best, like a CHE. Good luck.

Reading all this, it sounds like the problem is going to be much more complicated than I was originally thinking. I was hoping not to spend a bunch of money since I essentially drained the bank buying the house, but I don't think I'm going to have much choice. Plus, I am a bit worried concidering it hasn't REALLY started to get cold yet (Wisconsin).

Before I order from Animal Plastics, the lighting in the room is pretty weak. Would you recommend getting their LED lighting option for me to switch on while I out for work every day or is that too bright for them?

Also I am a visual learner, does anyone know of a good tutorial video (or forum post) on how to install the heating system and everything I need to get? I looked on here and there's an old post from 2012 on here from The Serpant Merchant but a bunch of the key pictures must have gotten lost over time and don't show up.

I'm thinking of the T3. The rooms in the house aren't big and I think the T8 that Malum Argenteum linked would be close to hitting the door if my measurements are correct.
https://apcages.com/products/apst3-b...-12h-overstock

I could also try to see if I could fit something together like Lord Sorril mentioned, but by the sound of it Sorril gave up on glass cages likely for similar problems. Unless you all think that method would be fine too, I should probably just bite the bullet and get PVC now.

I have never tried the APC lighting. I use some older undercabinet LED strips, not turned up too high (dimmable 12vdc lights are best for inside an enclosure).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Reading all this, it sounds like the problem is going to be much more complicated than I was originally thinking. I was hoping not to spend a bunch of money since I essentially drained the bank buying the house, but I don't think I'm going to have much choice. Plus, I am a bit worried concidering it hasn't REALLY started to get cold yet (Wisconsin).

Before I order from Animal Plastics, the lighting in the room is pretty weak. Would you recommend getting their LED lighting option for me to switch on while I out for work every day or is that too bright for them?

Also I am a visual learner, does anyone know of a good tutorial video (or forum post) on how to install the heating system and everything I need to get? I looked on here and there's an old post from 2012 on here from The Serpant Merchant but a bunch of the key pictures must have gotten lost over time and don't show up.

I'm thinking of the T3. The rooms in the house aren't big and I think the T8 that Malum Argenteum linked would be close to hitting the door if my measurements are correct.
https://apcages.com/products/apst3-b...-12h-overstock

I could also try to see if I could fit something together like Lord Sorril mentioned, but by the sound of it Sorril gave up on glass cages likely for similar problems. Unless you all think that method would be fine too, I should probably just bite the bullet and get PVC now.

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Bite the bullet and get PVC. You will be happier and your snake definitely will be.

You will save money on heating the tank because of how well insulated it is and how efficient RHP's are. You will also be able to hold humidity in.

3X2' is fine for a normal size BP. I have a 4X2' for my female BP who is a bit over 4ft and 1.8kg, but it is part of a stack including a Carpet Python and I have the room. 3X2' is good for up to a 4-5ft BP. It will also be a little easier and cheaper to heat.

LED is fine and most have a remote where you can dim the LED. Your BP will hide during the day for the most part anyway. I keep lights on in some of my tanks (Blue Tongue Skink and Carpet Python for example), but I do not for my BP. If you want to save money for now, I would consider holding off on a light and getting an above adequate RHP for when it's really cold and a good thermostat. Those two you cannot live without. A light you can.

AP might have videos on how to install an RHP or can tell you where to look.

Make sure that the entire tank fits on your table (or you might need a piece of plywood, etc.). PVC tanks will warp if not fully supported.

If you are uncomfortable installing all the pieces, there are other cage manufacturers who will install them for you and ship the tank put together, heating elements installed, etc.

However, it should not be that bad.

What are your recommendations for the heating? What do you use on yours?

The heating situation is what I'm most concerened about. I've been doing research and I'm finding a lot of conflicting advice. I also looked on AP and they don't have any videos on how to set up heat in T8's or T3's. They use flexwatt heat tape on their rack videos, but I've been seeing a lot of people recommend not to use heat tape (including Lord Sorril above). That being said, some of the random instructional videos I have found are using the flexwatt heat tape haha. It gets confusing on what is actually the right thing to do.

With the heating issues in my place looking to be dropping into the high 60's, would it be better to do the flexwatt heat tape, a UTH, or a RHP?

Also, any thermostat recommendations? The one I have is a basic on/off, but gets the job done. I'm not sure if something better would be required.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to make sure I do it right the first time if I'm spending all the $.

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

With the heating issues in my place looking to be dropping into the high 60's, would it be better to do the flexwatt heat tape, a UTH, or a RHP?

Also, any thermostat recommendations? The one I have is a basic on/off, but gets the job done. I'm not sure if something better would be required.

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An RHP is the heat source for this sort of situation. VE models are fine in my experience, though Pro Products Pro Heat panels are generally regarded as higher quality and more reliable; I have some of these too and they're good.

Herpstats are the only thermostats worth using, in my opinion and experience. I just replaced another VE unit within the last week, and I have one more that's getting a little glitchy. Other lower priced simple thermostats don't have the safety features of the Herpstats, so they're not a good choice.

I will add that if it is 60s there, you might want to consider heat tape as well. It is probably not necessary, but you could install it in addition to the RHP and run it off a different thermostat, or a thermostat that handles more than one device.

I think you will be okay, especially in a 3X2X1' PVC enclosure. You can always add heat tape later.

I run heat tape and an RHP in my tanks. RHP heats the air and the ground and heat tape heats the ground only. You definitely want an RHP for warming the tank, the question is do you want more control over the temps and the ground temps?

I will add most people do not do this and I have a lot of thermostats. My tanks are dialed in and in the winter my room is high 60's. I am speaking to my experience and being very cautious about making sure everything is correct for my animals. Probably being overly cautious and overcomplicating things, but I am good at that.

Start with the RHP and see if it is enough. Heat tape is easy and cheap to add later. Herpstats are great and that makes a lot of sense. They are running a Black Friday deal now as well.

Herpstat 1 is perfect for one heating element and the herpstat 2 would give you flexibility if you want to add another later. However, it is more costly.

Do not skimp on the thermostat! Buy one good one instead of having to replace mediocre ones, or worse, a snake. Remember, 60s will not kill your snake. 98F+ will.

Order of importance when setting up a tank:

1. Thermostat
2. Heating element(s)
3. Tank
4. Substrate and hides.

Keep asking questions. We are here to help.

Do the UTH work for the AP cages as well? I currently have the standard ZooMed UTH with a standard thermostat. I could just flip it over to the new tank along with a RHP (which would be on a new thermostat) unless you guy's think that's a dangerous move.

I have had the UTH and thermostat for over 13 years now though and I don't know the equipment's lifespan. I've had her since she was born and got the set up back then. I suppose that would probably be considered "skimping" on the thermostat and UTH but I didn't really have an issue with temps until I just moved in to the house recently. Plus, that's what was recommended to me at the time and I haven't really looked back.

I've been monitering room temps in separate rooms of the house and they typically range 68-72 so far. It seems that 60's is the range where you guys recommend something heating the bottom as well but is high 60's acceptable as room temps to allow sole dependance on a RHP? Also, one other thing. What about the cold side? Do you guys just leave that as is then? On my glass cage, I actually have another UTH with a separate thermostat set to around 80 on the cold side.

I did place an order for the T3 this afternoon. Fortunately for me, my issue came up around black friday so I got 10% off at AP. I also found a Herpstat 1 or 2 for 10% off as well. Pending what you guys recommend on the additional UTH or RHP only situation, I'll order that. If I can safely rely on just a RHP with no bottom heat, I'll just do the herpstat 1.

Like I said in an earlier post, I want to do this right so I'm looking into a Pro Products Pro heat even though this is all costing big $. Their website is really weird though and gives no information on size recommendations or costs. I guess I just have to contact them and they give me sizes and costs at that time? Strange way to order what seems to be a fairly common item people are getting, but if you're the best at what you do, you can do what you want I guess... haha.

As far as substrate goes, I use paper towels (pictured above) and have been doing so for about 10 years. I started out with other kinds but it was messy and would give me allergy issues. If you have any suggestions on that, I'm open as well. I use a warm hide and cool side hide as one should. Now that I'll have more space, I upgrade the water dish to something bigger.

I appreciate the help on this from you all. Hopefully people in the future with similar issues will be able to reference this thread as well. I'm not new to the game and I feel I knew what I was doing with the set up I had, but when it comes to these "pro-looking" set ups I didn't know anything. The house temperature issues really threw me into a loop. I actually think there's something wrong with the house heating system, but that's not a problem for here lol.

UTHs/heat mats/heat tape are a good way to provide a warm surface for belly heat. They don't heat the air (much at all), and they don't provide a gradient (the snake is either on the heat or off the heat). Just belly heat "works" for lots of people's snakes, apparently, but it is far less than ideal.

With an RHP you should be able to put it on the warm side, and the PVC insulates well enough that the cool side stays in a reasonable zone. It may be that in a cool room it would be better to have the RHP slightly away from one end (so that the cool side catches a little more heat). And as mentioned, if the rrom is really cool, an additional underbelly heat source might be beneficial (I put my bottommost enclosures on a sheet of styro insulation to help keep the bottoms a little warmer, and I use coco chip substrate which retains some heat).

Yep, the Pro Products sales experience is weird. It is useful, though -- you tell him the snake species, enclosure size and material, and room ambient temp and he figures out what size RHP you need. I use some VE RHPs too and they've been fine, so if you want to keep things familiar that might be a good option for you.

The 'standard thermostat' has no safety features. This means that if the probe gets knocked out of place, the thermostat will keep pumping power to the heat source (Herpstats can be set to sound an alarm and shut off in this sort of 'can't reach set temp' situation).

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

UTHs/heat mats/heat tape are a good way to provide a warm surface for belly heat. They don't heat the air (much at all), and they don't provide a gradient (the snake is either on the heat or off the heat). Just belly heat "works" for lots of people's snakes, apparently, but it is far less than ideal.

With an RHP you should be able to put it on the warm side, and the PVC insulates well enough that the cool side stays in a reasonable zone. It may be that in a cool room it would be better to have the RHP slightly away from one end (so that the cool side catches a little more heat). And as mentioned, if the rrom is really cool, an additional underbelly heat source might be beneficial (I put my bottommost enclosures on a sheet of styro insulation to help keep the bottoms a little warmer, and I use coco chip substrate which retains some heat).

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Yes, it's for belly heat. My question was more so that with my room temperature range (68-72) do you guys think that it is nescessary to have both a UTH and a RHP or should I be good with just a RHP. Also that if that same type ZooMed UTH would work on the AP cage (wasn't sure if it would be bad for the plastic or something) but it sounds like based on your answer, a UTH on AP should be fine. Leaving just the - do you guys think it's necessary in my scenario to have both?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Yes, it's for belly heat. My question was more so that with my room temperature range (68-72) do you guys think that it is nescessary to have both a UTH and a RHP or should I be good with just a RHP. Also that if that same type ZooMed UTH would work on the AP cage (wasn't sure if it would be bad for the plastic or something) but it sounds like based on your answer, a UTH on AP should be fine. Leaving just the - do you guys think it's necessary in my scenario to have both?

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To be clear, it is difficut to know 100% for sure what you will need. Environmental/room temps and humidity, substrate, hides and placement, etc. all play a role.

I think in a 3X2' an RHP will be fine. I would not use the UTH to start unless you want to spring for a Herpstat 2 and then it is arbitrary (the limiting factor being cost).

A UTH on a proper thermostat is fine on an AP tank. Heat tape is more uniform and probably more efficient. It is designed for PVC type tanks. However, a UTH on a proper thermostat is ok.

If you want heat tape, a 2'X1' section is about $17.

https://www.reptilebasics.com/heat-t...ape-connected/

RHP's running enough to heat an entire tank at your potential temps could create ground temps that are too hot directly under it. I have 6x2X1, 4X2X1', and 4X2X1.5' tanks, and run both heat tape and RHP (on the warm side) and heat tape on the cool side. Why? In the winter when it gets (high) 60's in my reptile room, running the RHP to create proper temps on the cool side could make it too hot on the warm side. Additionally, I am huge proponent of belly heat for digestion. I run heat tape on the hot side to give me more control as well. I run it on the cool side to maintain proper cool side ground temps and have more control.

For my BP, for example, who is in a 4X2X1.5' enclosure, has about 88F on the warm side and because of the height and size (amount of air in the tank) of the tank, to maintain temps at 78-80F on the cool side, it can make it too hot on the warm side. Answer? Heat tape on the cool side maintains ground temps at 78F.

In a smaller enclosure, especially with less height, an RHP should be able to heat the warm side and cool side without issue.

However, IMO, the best thing would be to get a thermostat that can handle 2 devices and have both. Worst case is you set the UTH to 80F or less and it is a backup and/or prevents the RHP from working too hard. To be clear, I would run the UTH on the warm side in a 3X2' to start, not on the cool side.

Again, optimal vs. necessary is the issue here.

I think optimal is both. Necessary is an RHP.

Very quickly on belly heat. Heat = health and digestion. A BP will probably spend more time on the cool side except when digesting. My snakes also often go into the warm side hide when they are going to shed. Since they are cold blooded and heat is needed for digestion, it is up to nature or the keeper to provide that heat. Belly heat means easy digestion. Further, things like hides and substrate can mean that the ground temperature (which is what matters the most) can be different than desired without a under tank heating source.

When I check temps in my tanks, with an IR temp gun, I look or ground temps that meet the animal's requirements. I do not worry as much about the air temp on the ceiling or the middle of the tank, especially with BP (a ground snake vs. my carpet python, for example, who climbs a lot and uses every inch of the 4X2X1.5' he is in). I want that to be adequate, but I am more interested in ground temps being optimal.

Again, optimal is both an under tank heat source and an RHP on the warm side. However, 90% you are probably fine with an RHP.

The question is really do you want to spend more for either 2 thermostats, or ideally, one that controls two devices?

Thanks for the detailed answer, it's appreciated. I have also always liked the idea of belly heat for digestion as well. I think what I'm going to do is spend the extra $ and get the herpstat that handles two. Since my UTH are pretty old at this point and a bit bent since I had to shove the thermostat under there, I'll just get some heat tape as well because that's pretty cheap. Then I'll put it on BOTH hot and cold sides. During winter I will run the cold side (when she typically isn't eating much) to help control bottom heat when it's cold, and then plug in the warm side instead during spring-fall when she's eating to aid in digestion. How does that sound?

I did finally find what seems to be a good video on how to set up the heat panels so I feel better about it now that I have a visual aid. The hardest part will be to recreate how he set up his thermostat sensor. Otherwise, it shouldn't be too bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrtA7t7Dcc

It's interesting that you say the BP's typically stay on the cold side except when digestion. Mine has always been on the warm side. However, now that I temporarily have a heat light above her cage for the warm side (88-90), she's been staying on her cold side (77-80). I didn't like that she's been on her cold side so much with all the issues I'm having but now that makes me less concerned. I did buy an IR gun in the early days of my BP so I already have that and have been using it.

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

How does that sound?

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I would recommend running the same heat program and setup year round.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

It's interesting that you say the BP's typically stay on the cold side except when digestion. Mine has always been on the warm side. However, now that I temporarily have a heat light above her cage for the warm side (88-90), she's been staying on her cold side (77-80). I didn't like that she's been on her cold side so much with all the issues I'm having but now that makes me less concerned. I did buy an IR gun in the early days of my BP so I already have that and have been using it.

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If a snake is always on the warm side, the snake is saying that the cool side is too cool (and maybe the warm side is too cool, too, if the snake never warms up enough to leave it).

If a snake is always on the cool side, the snake is saying that the warm side is too warm (and maybe the cool side is too warm, too, if the snake never cools off enough to leave it).

If a snake varies its positions between the warm side and the cool side according to a routine that makes sense (i.e. warm side to digest, and then varying between warm and cool during other periods, and often somewhere in the gradient between the extremes), then that's a clue that the temp choices are what the snake prefers. This is actually how researchers figure out the preferred body temperature of a species: they provide a gradient and see where the animal tends to hang out, and they measure the temp there; they do this for a bunch of snakes and average the results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Thanks for the detailed answer, it's appreciated. I have also always liked the idea of belly heat for digestion as well. I think what I'm going to do is spend the extra $ and get the herpstat that handles two. Since my UTH are pretty old at this point and a bit bent since I had to shove the thermostat under there, I'll just get some heat tape as well because that's pretty cheap. Then I'll put it on BOTH hot and cold sides. During winter I will run the cold side (when she typically isn't eating much) to help control bottom heat when it's cold, and then plug in the warm side instead during spring-fall when she's eating to aid in digestion. How does that sound?

I did finally find what seems to be a good video on how to set up the heat panels so I feel better about it now that I have a visual aid. The hardest part will be to recreate how he set up his thermostat sensor. Otherwise, it shouldn't be too bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrtA7t7Dcc

It's interesting that you say the BP's typically stay on the cold side except when digestion. Mine has always been on the warm side. However, now that I temporarily have a heat light above her cage for the warm side (88-90), she's been staying on her cold side (77-80). I didn't like that she's been on her cold side so much with all the issues I'm having but now that makes me less concerned. I did buy an IR gun in the early days of my BP so I already have that and have been using it.

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I will clarify. I was not descriptive enough.

BP Temp Behavior that I have noticed in Shayna (12 year old female BP).

Tank Setup: 4X2X1.5 PVC Tank

Warm side Temps: 84-88F with an 86F average (depending on if under RHP or not).

NOTE: Shayna is an Albino Spider Morph. Spiders are prone to neurological issues and I was told keeping the temps a degree or two cooler can be better for her. She has no issues digesting and I figure better safe than sorry. 87-88F average is fine as well. 89F is probably getting a little warm and over 90F is no good.

Middle of the tank: 80-82F

Cool side: 78-80F

Shayna spends 40% on the cool side and 45% in the middle of the tank normally. She spend the majority of her time on the warm side to digest and when in shed. This is resting behavior. When moving around the tank she is not particularly discriminant.

My point earlier in the thread was that warm side is not where she is most of the time unless digesting.

I will add that most of my snakes spend the majority of their of time in the middle or cool side. The exception is probably Yafe, my Carpet Python. He is all over the place. High, low, warm, cool, etc. However, he is a display animal and rarely uses his hides. He will lay on his hides, hang on his branches, etc. Usually only in hide when shedding.

The fact that my tanks are big enough to allow for a dramatic gradient may contribute to this. In 3X2' you may not notice as much as it will be mostly cool or warm side. This is not a bad thing and a 3X2' will be fine for you BP - I am just pointing out that it might be more difficult to observe the same behavior I have.

1. LED lighting - If the room gets natural light through a window, then I don't think it's necessary. That should be enough for your bp to maintain a day/night cycle. LEDs can, however, be very helpful during cage maintenance. I don't use any lighting in my enclosure because I don't imagine that a shy, nocturnal animal would like bright lights.
2. Heating - a RHP supplemented with heat tape is the best way to go. I don't think the RHP alone will be enough. I have a 3 x 2 x 14.5" enclosure heated with an 80w VE RHP. It maintains a nice basking spot, but the cold side of my enclosure is room temperature. If you had substrate to absorb and radiate the heat from the RHP, then the RHP might do a better job at raising your ambient temp. Paper towels won't do that. Like you, I also don't use substrate, I use Repticarpet, so, I use heat tape to maintain the minimum temperature.
3. Thermostats - I've used on/off thermostats for the few years that I've been keeping without incident. I do, however, have a Herpstat 2 at the top of my Christmas list both because they do a better job of maintaining a constant temperature and because of the additional safety features.

Interesting, perhaps my temps have been off then all these years if she stayed on her warm side for the most part. That being said though, I have been using the IR gun for a long time. The warm side would never get higher than 87-88. The cool side was always 79-80 without turning the cool side UTH on. The apartment complex I lived in had free heat so I'd just jack up the room temps to 80 all the time haha. It was warm for me of course, but I got used to it so didn't care and it solved any ambient temp issues.

With what you guys said, I'll get the herpstat 2, use heat tape on the warm side only, and target the 86-88 range for both RHP and heat tape. On the cool side I'll have no heat source for now. If it ends up being too cold, I can add another round of heat tape on that side with my current thermostat and upgrade to herpstat later when I pay off my credit card bill after all this haha. I'm also planning on getting some repticarpet as well like homebody mentioned. The dimentions of the new cage would make paper towels a pain to deal with. I wish I could use natural substrate, but it just makes my allergies go nuts.

Homebody - do you use heat tape on the cool side as well on your 3x2? Or is it just the warm side? It sounds like you don't have anything on the room temperature cool side, but it's tough to tell exactly what you have.

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Homebody - do you use heat tape on the cool side as well on your 3x2? Or is it just the warm side? It sounds like you don't have anything on the room temperature cool side, but it's tough to tell exactly what you have.

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Sorry. My enclosure is a diy plywood thing, so it's a little hard to describe. Here's some pics.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...urnishings.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ngs_123849.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/dsc03345.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/dsc03344.jpg
Overall, it's a 3x2x2. It's divided by a pvc sheet with a 3 inch hole to allow my snake move between the top and bottom. The top half is heated with a RHP during the day. It provides the basking spot. Cool side of the top isn't heated, so it's room temperature. Lower half is a tub. I heat the tub with heat tape day and night to maintain minimum temps.

The top half of my enclosure is roughly the same dimensions as what you're getting. If I was you, I would use your RHP to heat the basking spot and run heat tape under the entire length of your enclosure to maintain minimum temps. Your Herpstat 2 could regulate both heat sources.

Ahh got it, so you have a bit of a unique situation then. Cool set up btw, looks great!

Since you're heating a tub, I think in my case being directly on the pvc itself, instead of covering the entire bottom with heat tape I'll cover 2/3rds of it to allow the cool side to cool down a bit more. It should still allow a warm ground for digestion while still giving an opportunity for the cool side to cool a bit more with the RHP and tape.

Is there a specific heat tape you guys recommend or any to stay away from?

Also, side question with those of you that have an 18in high cage, do you prefer the 18 over the 12 and why? I did order the 12, but if you all feel the 18in height is much better for whatever reason, I'm sure I could call them tomorrow and pay the difference for the 18in. But perhaps with my cold room, I'm over complicating things, it's not actually necessary, and I should just stick with the 12in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Is there a specific heat tape you guys recommend or any to stay away from?

Also, side question with those of you that have an 18in high cage, do you prefer the 18 over the 12 and why? I did order the 12, but if you all feel the 18in height is much better for whatever reason, I'm sure I could call them tomorrow and pay the difference for the 18in. But perhaps with my cold room, I'm over complicating things, it's not actually necessary, and I should just stick with the 12in.

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I got my heat tape from Reptile Basics. You can order it by the foot and they'll connect the plug for you.

I don't have an 18" enclosure, but I've heard the 12" enclosure can be difficult to get into for cleaning and maintenance. On the other hand, the 12" would, theoretically, be easier to heat.

Pros of taller enclosures are that there is a lot more room for enrichment items -- natural material hides (cork rounds), climbing opportunities. There is more room to just get hands in there to work. More clearance for RHP (which takes up at least an inch of headroom). More thermal gradient (both horizontal and vertical).

Cons of taller enclosures are that they can be somewhat more challenging to heat, but the difference between 12" and 18" tall isn't much in this regard.

In general, a taller enclosure is going to be better for nearly any snake (exceptions might be really heavy bodied snakes such as those in the P. brongersmai complex -- short tailed pythons); 18" isn't really that tall.

I recommended a T8 initially since it is OK for a BP and importantly is a quicker ship item (and you're apparently in something of a time crunch). But checking just now it looks like they have T3, T4, T5, T8, T10, T11 and T12s ready to ship, so you have plenty of choice.

My BP (male) is in a T8 (so, 48 x 24 x 12" tall), and the height is limiting. If I had more vertical room to spare, a 24" tall would be nice to give him a little climbing space.

The only plastic (HDPE) enclosures I've ever tried were 12" tall, & I hated the low height. I think 18" should be minimum- 12" is very awkward to clean (assuming you're reaching in from a side door- it would be a little better if the top opened), & with substrate & furnishings, it's even less for the snake.

I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they can upgrade to a T5 (3x2x1.5). I think a taller height shouldn't make too big of a difference with my room temps generally in the very high 60's to low 70s at worst. If I run into bottom temp problems on the cool side, I can replace the 2ft tape with 3ft heat tape to cover the whole thing like dakski does. With him having a 4ft though, I may not have that same issue. I can't do the 4ft T8 because there just isn't enough room in my place for that extra length anyway so I'm stuck with the 3ft as far as length goes.

I forgot dakski also pointed out reptile basics for the heat tape, ha. Too much going through my mind to remember everything I suppose.

So far the plan is:
AP T3 or T5
Pro Products RHP
2 ft heat tape to cover 2/3rds of the tank
herpstat 2
repticarpet

She better know that I care with all that I'm spending right now... haha. She's a rare one. She's never been shy about drinking water in front of me, which I hear most BP's are. While hanging around my neck, she has drank water many times from her water bowl while it is in my hands and I'm changing the water over. Plus, she has drank water cupped in my BARE hands 2 or 3 times. Nice 3-10 second drinks, and yes, she always has water available to her so lack of water wasn't the reason lol.

Again, I appreciate all the help/advice from you all!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

I'll give them a call tomorrow to see if they can upgrade to a T5 (3x2x1.5). I think a taller height shouldn't make too big of a difference with my room temps generally in the very high 60's to low 70s at worst. If I run into bottom temp problems on the cool side, I can replace the 2ft tape with 3ft heat tape to cover the whole thing like dakski does. With him having a 4ft though, I may not have that same issue. I can't do the 4ft T8 because there just isn't enough room in my place for that extra length anyway so I'm stuck with the 3ft as far as length goes.

I forgot dakski also pointed out reptile basics for the heat tape, ha. Too much going through my mind to remember everything I suppose.

So far the plan is:
AP T3 or T5
Pro Products RHP
2 ft heat tape to cover 2/3rds of the tank
herpstat 2
repticarpet

She better know that I care with all that I'm spending right now... haha. She's a rare one. She's never been shy about drinking water in front of me, which I hear most BP's are. While hanging around my neck, she has drank water many times from her water bowl while it is in my hands and I'm changing the water over. Plus, she has drank water cupped in my BARE hands 2 or 3 times. Nice 3-10 second drinks, and yes, she always has water available to her so lack of water wasn't the reason lol.

Again, I appreciate all the help/advice from you all!

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I want to clarify one thing and give my two cents on cage height.

First, the clarification.

In my 4X2' tanks the heat tape is 1'X2' (1' wide and 2' deep) on the warm side and the same on the hot side. They take up a total of 50% of the tank floor. However, the cool side is kept at 78F on all my tanks except my corn snakes (they are fine at cage temp which in the winter is about 74F on the cool side at lowest due to the RHP and stacking of tanks which equal insulation). It is to insure that even if it gets cool in the reptile area (part of my finished basement), the cool side never gets too low. It is more of a backup than anything in the summer and in the winter maintains minimum temps.

In my 6X2' tanks for my boas, the heat tapes covers the same 1'X2' on each side. OP, if you want 2 FT of heat tape, I would use 1ft on the hot side for proper heat and digestion in conjunction with the RHP and 1ft on the cool side to maintain minimum temps.

Secondly, cage height.

All my tanks except my 4X2X1.5' for my Carpet Python and my BP (by coincidence and not design) are 1' tall. This was a necessity when I bought them due to space constraints and a low ceiling and needing to stack the tanks. Would I have preferred taller tanks, especially for the boas, yes. However, they come out often and I let them move around and climb, etc. For Yafe, the Carpet, it is necessity, as he is highly arboreal and uses the height and PVC branches all the time.

In terms of cleaning. 18'"/1.5' is much easier, especially if I had it for my lower stacked tanks. I have to use knee pads to clean the lowest tanks which are on pedestals (1FT for my leopard gecko enclosure and 1.5' for the lowest corn snake enclosure) and stretch my old back after. The angle makes those tanks a little annoying. However, since I use paper substrate they are not too bad to clean. Further, the higher elevated tanks are really not an issue.

I will also add that given a cooler and dryer environment, a 1' tall tank will need a smaller water bowl to generate the same humidity. In a 3X2' this might actually be a benefit because of space constraints versus a larger tank. Probably not a huge difference, especially for a BP that needs about 50% humidity, but worth mentioning.

I do not know the price difference, but if cost is an issue for the OP, and taller tanks are more money, I would rather see the funds spent on a proper setup that is 1' tall than a less optimal one that is 1.5' tall. Additionally, down the road, if the OP adds snakes (I know, this is impossible and everyone stops at one snake), and needs to stack, the lower tank would be a benefit.

Regarding a BP. They will use the height, but not like a boa or carpet python, or even a corn snake. BP's are ground snakes. They burrow in the wild and wait for prey to come by. Climbing is not a normal thing for them although they can and will. My male Boa/BI, Jeff, and Shayna (BP) are about the same weight although my BI is longer. If you put Jeff on your arm or neck he hold ons and maneuvers like a pro, as does my Carpet, Yafe. Shayna, she will hold on as not to fall, but is hardly as graceful in that circumstance. Note the small stubby tail on a BP vs. the prehensile tail on a carpet or something in between on a boa.

The point? BP's do not need the height. In a 3X2' it would be nice to give them some extra real estate, but mostly, it is for the keeper to have an easier time cleaning. It is also helpful if substantial substrate is needed or used as that limits height.

This may not be a popular view, but in captivity, we do the best we can for our animals (or should), but generally are not providing a perfect environment. Let us face it, a 3X2', 4X2', or even 6X2' is hardly the same as a jungle, for example. We manage temps and humidity, etc. and control other variables well (e.g. lack of parasites and predators, and regular food). However, it is up to us to keep our animals happy and shape through other enrichment such as handling.

I understand my views might not be consistent with other users. I am not preaching at all but I thought it might be food for thought.

OP - great job on wanting what is best for your BP, asking questions and follow ups, and clearly incorporating what you have learned. Please keep us posted as at least I am invested in seeing this tank situation come to a happy conclusion.

I did call AP and upgrade to a 3x2x1.5 this morning so it's a done deal at this point. If I do add to the collection some day, I don't see myself getting more than one or two more so I don't see stacking height becoming an issue. I think the extra space will be good since her whole life she's always been poking around the ceiling of her current cage. Also, the house has had cold issues overall so far this winter but during the weekends and days off, the room I have her in gets pretty warm because it's my gaming room. The extra space may help prevent it from overheating as well, especially in warmer months. I do monitor the room temp of course and open the room door when it gets too warm.

Dakski- follow up question on your reply though: with a RHP and two separate heat tape plug-ins, I'm assuming you have a herpstat 4 or higher? It did cross my mind to do different heat tape for warm and cold side so over the weekend I looked to see if they had a herpstat 3 and how much it would be. They only have a 4 and I just couldn't go that high in price right now so I got the 2. I could use the herpstat 2 I have on order to control the RHP and a 2ft long section under the warm side. Then use one of the original thermostats I currently use to control a 1ft section on the cold side. However, that's the basic thermostat people aren't thrilled over. I had planned on buying the heat tape tonight so I actually haven't ordered the heat tape yet.

And don't worry, I'll post pics when everything is all together!

I have on/off thermostats from Boaphile. Jeff Ronne (the Boaphile) manufactured all my tanks and I bought the thermostats from him. I believe they are Ranco thermostats that he modifies, but do not quote me on it.

https://boaphileplastics.com/product/double-thermostat/

I like them because they are redundant. If the main one fails open, the second thermostat shuts it down. Safety first. I also like that you can run many devices off the same thermostat.

This leads to how I run my heating elements.

First, the large tank stack (the 6X2' tanks) for the boas, the leopard gecko, and the Blue Tongue Skink, all have the same cool side temps - 78F - except Carra (the Leopard Gecko). So I have a probe in between two of the tanks on the cool side and have the thermostat keeping the cool sides 78F at all times.

Second, on the 4X2' tanks, I have one thermostat run the whole tank. How? The RHP and heat tape on the hot side and the cool side heat tape all run off the same thermostat. This works for two reasons. First, the heat tape on the cool side is a lower wattage. I think about 25-33% lower. I do not remember exactly. This way, the same wattage achieves a lower temp than the hot side heat tape. Secondly, the RHP warms enough that the heat tape does not do a ton of work. This is a specialized setup and took a lot of dialing in to get correct. It works great now, but I have considered (and still do) running the heat tape(s) on one and the RHP on another for each tank, as I do on the larger tanks for the cool side. The issue is the 6X2' tanks all have the same temps and the 4X2' tanks do not. This makes the 4X2' tanks more work because all the animals have different requirements.

How does it apply to you, OP?

Below are my thoughts, but I have only used herpstats (I have used them for other setups and I have one as a backup) with one device per channel. You would have to consult them or the manual, or users here more familiar, to see if the below is plausible or safe.

You could get lower wattage heat tape for the cool side and see what happens running the RHP on one circuit and the two heat tapes on the other. You might have to keep the hot side heat tape a little cooler, but with the RHP, that should be okay. Alternatively, you could run the hot side heat tape off one and the RHP off one and the cool side off the other.

You could also, at least temporarily, run your old thermostat on the cool side heat tape and get lower wattage to be safe.

Keep in mind, this may all be arbitrary as the cool side heat tape is potentially not needed. It might make sense to run the warm side RHP on one circuit and the warm side heat tape off the other and see how that works. It could be enough in the 3X2'.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Oh dang, that's interesting. Well of course I can't speak for how safe/plausible it would be to try that out for obvious reasons so perhaps someone else in here has some experience with that and can weigh in? It definitely all makes sense though.

Do you agree I should probably see how a 2ft section on the warm side works out before getting the extra foot on the cold side, since I can always add it later? As far as the heat tape itself goes, lower wattage correlates to the width, right? If I were to get a lower wattage, I assume I'd be looking for 6in heat tape or do they have 12in at lower wattage as well?

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Oh dang, that's interesting. Well of course I can't speak for how safe/plausible it would be to try that out for obvious reasons so perhaps someone else in here has some experience with that and can weigh in? It definitely all makes sense though.

Do you agree I should probably see how a 2ft section on the warm side works out before getting the extra foot on the cold side, since I can always add it later? As far as the heat tape itself goes, lower wattage correlates to the width, right? If I were to get a lower wattage, I assume I'd be looking for 6in heat tape or do they have 12in at lower wattage as well?

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I do not agree with that. I would not get more than 2ft total for your tank and not more than 1ft on the warm side. I have 2ft total on my 4X2' and 6X2' tanks.

Your BP needs a temperature gradient. That means 88F hot down to 78F cool side. If you use 2ft of heat tape on the hot side as one piece and run off one channel on the thermostat, you would have to set it lower than ideal temp for the hot side to make it acceptable for the middle.

The idea is you want to give your BP options. You do not want hot and cold, but hot, less hot, and cool side. The bigger the tank the larger the gradient can be. In a 3X2', 2FT of heat tape is already a lot, and as we have discussed, potentially unnecessary. The heat tape allows for belly heat but is not designed to heat the tank as the RHP does that. If you had 1X1' of heat tape, that would be fine too, but covering 1X2' makes it easier (front to back).

We are borderline overthinking this now. If you get 2FT, get two pieces and one for the hot side and one for the cool side. Initially, I would only plug in the hot side heat tape and the RHP and see what temps you get on the cool side. That might be perfect. If it isn't, then worry about the cool side.

In case it hasn't been said, set up the tank and then put your BP in. You want to make sure everything is dialed and in for a day or two before putting your BP in it.

I had the heat tape preinstalled by Jeff at Boaphile so I am not sure on how the wattage works. That is something you would have to look into. Again, you could just get the same heat tape and run off a separate thermostat, or a different channel. Wattage should limit the highest temp the most and the lowest less.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dakski

You could get lower wattage heat tape for the cool side and see what happens running the RHP on one circuit and the two heat tapes on the other.

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I've done something like this -- I have run multiple levels in a tub rack on one thermostat channel, and used an inline dimmer to reduce the amount of power flowing to certain levels in order to maintain different temps on those levels compared to the level that the probe is on. It is a far inferior method to simply having thermostatic control on each zone that you want to run at a different temp, since you've essentially eliminated thermostatic control of the zone that's a different wattage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

As far as the heat tape itself goes, lower wattage correlates to the width, right? If I were to get a lower wattage, I assume I'd be looking for 6in heat tape or do they have 12in at lower wattage as well?

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Heat tape is sold in different widths -- from 2" up to 17" (for Flexwatt/Calorique), or 3" to 21" (for THG). Most widths are available in only one wattage per foot. Some Flexwatt widths are available in more than one wattage per foot: 3" is 6wpf or 10 wpf; 4" is 5wpf or 8 wpf.

Whether to choose, say, 6" or 12" heat tape should be based primarily on how much area of the floor you want heated (especially if you're not using a substrate that will disperse the heat a little). Then you figure out what wattage is appropriate if it is a width for which there is a choice. Then you use a thermostat that's going to do what you need it to do -- either control the temp reliably or (if the tape is a higher wpf than is ideal for some reason) limit the wattage that will ever be sent to the tape (which Herpstats can do, though this is most useful in only some rare instances such as minimizing incubator temp spikes).

An interesting fact that was incorrectly (perhaps just unclearly) stated earlier here is that heat tape is adapted from underfloor heating (that's why for a long time only Calorique made it; they spun it off their floor heating); similarly, heat cable that used to be used most back in the day was adapted from gutter/pipe deicing cable. None was designed for reptile keeping, and certainly not designed for PVC enclosures, which came into use after almost all our heating hardware was established (with the possible exception of Arcadia's DHPs). Not centrally important to the discussion, really, but worth keeping in mind when a person is trying to figure out the "best" heating method, as the only thing that matters is how they perform.

Sounds good. I'm not sure what wattage to use since I've never used heat tape, but I'll probably just get two 1x1 sections of the heat tape dakski pointed out a while back. I was going to just buy a 1x1 to start, but shipping equals the cost of the item itself so I might as well just buy two right away just in case I do end up needing it. I'll start off with 1ft for the warm side, then if it's too cold on the cool side, I'll install the second on the cool side. I think for now it's better off for me to use one of my existing thermostats for the cool side (assuming I use it) and maybe upgrade to a herpstat next black friday lol. I understand the whole "one thermostat for multiple options" plan, but I feel it would be hard to get perfect. Plus, any risk involved is probably pretty equal between that and just using the same on/off thermostats I've been using for years, especially if there is a 1ft space between them with no heat tape.

Herpstat 2 arrived today by the way. The first piece of the puzzle is in, ha!

I'm back, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! All the parts for the new cage arrived and I finished setting it up. I do have a couple more questions/issues to address... ha. First though, I tested out the temps for 4-5 days and had consistant temp gun readings of 84-86 on the warm side and 77-79 on the cool side. I moved her in this past weekend and she seems to be enjoying the change. I've always aimed her towards her warm hide whenever putting her back in her cage. When I first put her in, she went into it but immidiately came back out to explore as I expected lol. She also grabbed a drink right away as well (I told you guys she has never been shy of drinking right in front of me, including the historical 2-3x from bare hands). She also came to the window to say thanks a few minutes later lol.

Anyway, here are my new questions. As I mentioned before, I had some difficulty trying to find the best way to set up the thermostat for the heat panel. I decided to try what someone else had shown works for them and let it droop on the cool side (visible in pictures). It seemed to work great as shown by my testing temps above. However, when the extra cold weather hit the past few days, it seems that the top of the warm hide hits temp gun 90-91 while the cool side is 75-77. Quite the temperature swing considering its only a 36in long cage. This is using the temp gun on the surface of the warm hide though and any various structure on the cool side. When I gunned her body while in the warm hide during the 90s reading (dont worry, I only do this when I know her head isn't remotely near) she was about 86. When she is out of the hide, the ground temp inside the hide reads 82-84 on the gun. This typically matches the white inside/outside thermometer I have in there when you add one degree (thermometer "outside" probe is inside her warm hide). I'm still concerned that even though the exterior of the hide is 90-91, she herself reads about 86, and the ground temp is consistantly low 80s, that it is still too warm.

However either way, the low ground temp on the warm hide leads to the heat tape (pictured below). Perhaps if the heat tape was doing a better job, the heat panel wouldn't be working so hard. While I found two ways to mount the heat panel and thermostat, I couldn't find any instruction on how to mount heat tape. I have how I did it pictured below based off the written instructions sent with the tape. I feel that there is too much space between the tape and the bottom of the tank because I can easily fit my finger into the gap. Plus, I have the thermostat in the little slot in the bottom of the cage which is designed for it but it angles down and touches the heat tape. Is the way I have it pictured the way it is supposed to be? I just put foil tape on the sides and didn't put any on the top or back because it seemed that was the way the written instructions wanted it. I also didn't put any normal tape near the thermostat itself and above the actual heat tape because I was afraid it would melt the tape or cause issues.

Those are my two main issues I'm coming across. The third and one you guys probably won't have anything to do with is for some reason the left window slides VERY rough. It's really difficult to open/close and I can't seem to figure out why. My only guess is that the staples in the track must be poking up a bit too high so when I have time this weekend I'm going to try to see if I can find something to pound them down a bit more with. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what to do. The right window slides open/closed with very little effort as designed.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/2/cage_2.jpg
Ignore the "-40" on the front thermometer, its broke lol. I keep it for the extra bottom left ambient temp but mainly for the bottom right humidity reading. So far the cage is tyipcally in the low to mid 40's on humidity.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/2/cage_3.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...2/athena_1.jpg
Saying thank you!
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...2/athena_2.jpg
I have a new bigger water dish behind her. I needed a new one anyway since this one has mineral deposits that built over time but I kept it in the cage for now since there's room. So far she prefers her old one lol.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/2/cage_4.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/2/cage_5.jpg

" I had some difficulty trying to find the best way to set up the thermostat for the heat panel. I decided to try what someone else had shown works for them and let it droop on the cool side (visible in pictures). It seemed to work great as shown by my testing temps above. However, when the extra cold weather hit the past few days, it seems that the top of the warm hide hits temp gun 90-91 while the cool side is 75-77. Quite the temperature swing considering its only a 36in long cage."

A large temperature differential between the warm and cool side doesn't have any relation to how the thermostat is placed. But yes, in a cool room there will be more of a temp diff than in a warm room. One way to tweak that (to reduce the difference between warm and cool side) is to place the RHP a little more toward the center of the enclosure.

There's not much thermal mass in the enclosure, so that will make temps a little more dependent on proximity to the RHP. Substrate and organic hardscape hold heat and release it slowly, compared to a situation where there's mostly radiant heat. Something to consider.

As to the heat tape, I don't use it on PVC enclosures. But on tubs (in both PVC and "melamine" chipboard racks) I do not leave an air gap. Many keepers don't leave an air gap. The original design use for heat tape (radiant floor heating) does not specify an air gap.

There's a worry by reptile keepers that without an air gap the risk of overheating in the case of a thermostat malfunction is increased, and that's basically true (though there's a risk of heat damage from a situation in which heat tape has to run flat out to reach set temp, so that might well be figured in). There's probably a way to get the heat tape to be in contact with the bottom of the enclosure while also maintaining an air gap under the heat tape. Shimming the enclosure off the table in such a way that there is no air flow through under the enclosure (by having the risers all around the perimeter) would be another option; having the heat tape completely exposed to circulating air on the bottom side wastes the majority (= more than 50%) of the heat it produces to the room.

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...9/2/cage_2.jpg

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Sweet set up. I'm not going to lie. I'm a little envious.

What RHP did you end up getting? Pro Products? What wattage?

What temps did you program into your Herpstat 2?

I think you can improve the performance of your heat tape by reducing the ventilation under your enclosure. Looks like you've got it sitting on 1/2" slats. Try 1/4" or even those little stick on rubber feet.

I checked the temps when I got home from work right now and the top of the warm hide read 90 again. She was outside of the hide though so I was able to get a reading on the inside and it gunned at 86, so not bad. Cool side gunned at 78. Do you guys think that temp difference between sides is an issue or is it fine? I would tend to think that if it's just the top of the warm hide that is hitting 90-91 but inside it is in the mid 80's, it should be ok. Regardless, it's a 10-14 degree difference between sides but I'm not sure how much variation is too much. I don't think I want to move the RHP because that would mean drilling more holes. Plus, I think it would have the opposite effect I would want in summer and the cool side would be too warm.

Malum, if you don't have an air gap on the heat tape on a tub, where are you putting the thermostat? Doesn't the thermostat iteself create or require an air gap? I am going to try messing with the heat tape this weekend though to see if I can get it tighter. Do you guys think it would be bad if I put tape on all 4 sides of the heat tape? The instructions didn't want any tape on any of the black parts. The white areas on the top and bottom are real thin so that's another reason why I didn't attempt it. I'm not sure how yet but maybe I can find something to wedge the thermostat in the slot and keep it from drooping down as well. I can also get some 1/4in wood afterwards if it still seems the heat tape is too loose. My dad had the 1/2in laying around in his garage so I cut it up and that's what I used since it was the very fair price of $Free.99, haha.

I did go with the Pro Products RHP. Bob recommended the PH-115 Pro Heat panel 60 watt so that's what I went with. Thermostat for the RHP is set to 79 (remember the thermostat is on the cool side), and the heat tape is set to 86.

Maybe add another couple of hides in between ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

I checked the temps when I got home from work right now and the top of the warm hide read 90 again. She was outside of the hide though so I was able to get a reading on the inside and it gunned at 86, so not bad. Cool side gunned at 78.

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Those sound like textbook temps to me. I would hold off on any changes, for now, and just monitor your temps to see how well they hold up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lX V1P3R Xl

Malum, if you don't have an air gap on the heat tape on a tub, where are you putting the thermostat? Doesn't the thermostat iteself create or require an air gap? I am going to try messing with the heat tape this weekend though to see if I can get it tighter. Do you guys think it would be bad if I put tape on all 4 sides of the heat tape?

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When possible (I have ~30 channels of heat, so there's a little variance per situation, and some of my 'old work' probes are not as well installed), I put the probe in a groove cut into the shelf under the heat tape. I aim to have the heat tape in physical contact with the probe at all times (since if it isn't, the heat tape will run flat out, and the thermostat will alarm), and try to align the probe so that it touches two heat element strips (since apparently there's some expected variance between heat element strips). I usually put tape on all four edges.

Sorry it took so long for me to get back on here. Really busy work week. Anyway, I re-did the heat tape set up on the bottom of her cage last weekend and I like it a lot better (pictured below). I did cautiously use tape on all sides so it's a lot closer to the cage bottom. Let me know if you guys see an issue with it. Otherwise, I've been monitering the temps and it seems to be going pretty well. I think the low 90s on the surface of her warm hide are temporary while the RHP is running at a higher %. I have been checking though and havent even seen them recently. The lowest on the cool side I've seen is 74 during the really cold temps we had recently. We have another single digit to negative degree stretch coming up starting tomorrow so I may boost the temp in the cage a degree or two if I see it getting too low. She has also been swtiching back and forth from cold/warm sides every day or two which she has never done in the past. Probably because I didn't have it warm enough before (only had a UTH before if you remember). Right now she's been on her warm side the past few days. I noticed she's in shedding mode so that doesn't surprise me.

Once I figure out the siding door situation, I should be all set. Thanks for the advice and feel free to let me know if you have further comments on the heat tape or temp situation!

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...ge_6_thumb.jpg