Two-year old skittish ball python

Hi All,

Have had my ball python for two years (bought as a juvenile August 2022). Bought it for my kid (now 9) and the python has never 'warmed up' to us. And by that I mean still is in a tight ball whenever held. And also will get into striking position whenever I come near the cage.

Eats fairly well. Was a little of a journey getting him on f/t but ate two f/t medium rats (~100g) two times in a row. 34-gallon, front-opening terrarium. Been shedding well. Just weighed today: 900g

A few factors/observations:

1) Always in a ball when picked up, usually from hide. Will have son hold him in lap while doing something else (watching TV) and he'll stroke the scales softly (he read they like this in this book I got him early on).
2) When the snake finally does uncurl, it's usually in the striking position. My son doesn't notice but I do and usually take the snake when this happens (usually after 15 minutes or so) so that he doesn't strike my son. Moreso just worried about my kid being afraid so trying to avoid for that reason.
3) I also personally fear being struck while holding him purely because I don't want to hurt him. Just as a natural reaction I jump still when he takes the f/t because it's such a fast movement. So when I'm holding him and he does start moving around, I fear if he strikes me I'll startle and drop him. Is this a thing? do they have enough awareness not to strike the thing that's holding them?
4) I always give 24 hour grace period before or after feeding.

I believe the husbandry is good given the above (nice sized tank, feeding well, shedding well, etc). Looking for maybe some tips and a schedule to get on. Is it just handling consistently? Because of the above honestly a couple months may go by without handling and I think I was waiting for him to grow out of a young, skittish stage and seems like that's not a good strategy. But also don't want to make things worse by handling wrong, if that makes sense.

Always ready to strike on approach:
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2/IMG-0047.jpg

Holding session today
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...p/IMG-0193.jpg

I'm sure more experienced keepers will post more info soon, but handling for 15 minutes or so after he unballs is probably a good way to go. If he's not biting when being picked up or transferred between people, he probably won't bite hands supporting him from below. I've noticed my bp is more timid and won't unball if she gets handled multiple times per day or on consecutive days, so handling once per week could be a good frequency.

My bp doesn't bite unless there's a rat involved, but if I hold my bredli python in one hand and bring the other within reach he'll strike it. Zero interest in biting a hand already touching him though. I just try not too hold him too close to my face or any hand not supporting him.

Of course, if you're worried about dropping your bp try not to handle too far from the ground or other surface. I flinched when handling my bp the day after getting bit by my bredli for the first time. I didn't think the bredli bite had particularly bothered me, but I guess it was enough. Fortunately this was not far from the ground and I didn't drop her so the bp was fine, but it did scare her quite a bit. I felt bad because the bp hadn't done anything except move.

I've also heard that if you do flinch or scare a bp while handling, it's a good idea to handle a bit longer so the last part of the experience isn't them getting scared.

Side note: just in case it's been on, it's a good idea to keep that red enclosure light off at night. Even though it's red, I believe the light can still disrupt the snake's day/night cycle if on all the time.

Edit: My bp also goes into strike position when I came near the enclosure in the evening. She isn't doing it defensively, she's just hungry and hoping I have a rat.
Edit 2: It's probably a good idea to increase the post-feeding grace period to 48 hours. Some people recommend a full 72, but I've always done 48.

I'd say that 15 minutes or so isn't enough time for this snake to actually relax when being handled. I'd go for maybe 45-60 minutes, like while watching a movie (not in a cold room), & it would help to put a small towel over him so he feels safer..."hidden". And 2 years is a long time for this snake to still be so skittish, so maybe your method needs work? (Some snakes do have more challenging personalities, but try to think positive.)

Keep your hands "quiet" & under him* when he does finally uncoil & get more curious, giving him plenty of time to relax. *I hate to say this, but no, snakes don't always know that all of our moving parts belong to the warm thing that's harmlessly holding them. Especially when they're still shy & afraid, any little movement nearby might be misinterpreted as a potential threat. But you also shouldn't go thru life fearing a little snake nip...just saying. And do only handle him over furniture that affords a soft landing in case the worst happens & you panic-drop him.

It sounds to me like you aren't really relaxed with him, & I've often found that with handling snakes, trust is a 2-way street. He might be picking up on your nervousness. I also think you might be misinterpreting his posture as a "strike" coil, especially since he hasn't ever actually struck either of you, right? -when really, he's just being a shy snake trying to figure you & your son out. ;)

FYI, THIS is NOT ready to strike...he's just curious! https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2/IMG-0047.jpg

"Just as a natural reaction I jump still when he takes the f/t because it's such a fast movement." Just checking -- if you're 'presenting' the prey item (that is, not simply placing it on a tray in the enclosure for the snake to eat when it is ready), you're using a long forceps, correct?

Just a personal sort of anecdote: when I get bitten, I have a big startle reaction. Every single time. It is really a bad thing, but it seems to be reflexive. Once I jerked back when a little male hognose bit me (misplaced feeding strike -- I had the mouse on a tongs and he came FLYING out), and caught a fang when I pulled away. Big bloody wound (relative to what it would have been if I would have stayed still). My possibly odd tactic now is to look away when I know I'm going to get bitten, since I don't flinch if I don't see the strike. This might be useful info to you, or might not.

"do they have enough awareness not to strike the thing that's holding them?" I have some snakes that bite the hook I pick them up with, and bite the side of their enclosure when I put them back. Depends on the snake. I don't think they can reason through what would cause a keeper to drop them, though.

The only snakes I have that get agitated after extended handling are rainbow boas, and they have given only a warning strike (no bite). That works, since then I am warned and I put them away.

I agree that your snake might not actually be in a strike position. If it was, I think you would have gotten tagged by now.

This is all very helpful! And yes, I do use long forceps. My snake seems to need the fake dance to take the f/t.

I don't think I'd actually been struck but I remember about a year ago my son was holding him, oblivious, and the snake was trying to strike my other son's leg (they were both watching TV on the couch) but was too far away.

Anyway, will take all this advice to heart and mainly try to have longer sessions.

I'm sure the snake can sense fear and may react to it with its form of being afraid. But I wonder if picking a BP up lets just say during the day when its normally sleeping would cause skitterishness as well.

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Originally Posted by mistergreen

I'm sure the snake can sense fear and may react to it with its form of being afraid. But I wonder if picking a BP up lets just say during the day when its normally sleeping would cause skitterishness as well.

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I don't believe that snakes are "mind-readers", but to the extent that our nervousness can manifest in overt symptoms (such as our being restless & hurried, rather than being relaxed & empathetic) I think they pick up on that. I've never paid too much attention to a snake's normal sleep hours when I've needed to handle them, but I agree that might contribute a little stress as well.

Mostly I think empathy is the key: Even when I've had to do something a snake doesn't like, the fact that I'm being gentle & helping them feel "safe" rather than exposed & under attack- & mentally trying to feel what the snake is feeling- that's what I think matters & what they pick up on. Don't ask me how.

As far as I can tell, snakes do not have anger or hold grudges...they either feel safe with us (know by our touch that we're not a predator) or they don't. Just because they're covered with scales...don't underestimate their sense of touch. They communicate with other snakes that way too. And they certainly learn to recognize us by how we touch them. Put your voice into your hands...& when you do that, you'll forget to worry about being nipped, & then you won't be. ;)

Try picking him up after he eats when he’s calmer and let him explore your hands. Using a hook to encourage him out instead of reaching in can help, too.

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Originally Posted by Kingofspades

Try picking him up after he eats when he’s calmer and let him explore your hands. Using a hook to encourage him out instead of reaching in can help, too.

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To the first part of this, I disagree. First, you don't want to interfere with, much less cause, a regurgitation of a meal by handling too soon after eating. (Maybe that's not exactly what you meant, but for the sake of clarity & preventing problems, I have to assume.) But more to the point, for many snakes, they'll still be in "feed mode" & ready to misinterpret your hand (or anything else) as more incoming prey. Oops! ("Feed mode" can last hours or even days, depending on snake's own personality.)

Using a hook is an option, if you're that worried about a bite, though most BPs don't warrant "tap training". Whether you use your hand, a snake-hook, or something else (like the empty sleeve of your shirt or the cardboard roll from paper towels) snakes generally learn the touch that signals "I'm about to be picked up by that big harmless warm thing over there." & accept handling.

Note that it also depends on the species of snake you're working with. I find that unlike boas & pythons, rat (& corn) snakes generally recognize my scent quite easily. The size of the snake's teeth can also determine how much "bite prevention" you're comfortable with. ;) (Large boas have much bigger teeth than rat snakes & therefore see a lot more "tap training" :D)

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Originally Posted by MedicalAuthor

Hi All,

Have had my ball python for two years (bought as a juvenile August 2022). Bought it for my kid (now 9) and the python has never 'warmed up' to us. And by that I mean still is in a tight ball whenever held. And also will get into striking position whenever I come near the cage.

Eats fairly well. Was a little of a journey getting him on f/t but ate two f/t medium rats (~100g) two times in a row. 34-gallon, front-opening terrarium. Been shedding well. Just weighed today: 900g

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While I encourage you to do all you can to help your bp feel relaxed during handling, how successful you are may be limited by your snake's personality. While your snake can learn to better tolerate handing, you can also adjust your expectations. Not all bps are the same. Just because your snake is more skittish than other bps doesn't necessarily mean that you're doing something wrong. That may just be the way he is and, to some extent, how he will always be. Gotta love the snake you've got. Not the one you wish you had.

On an unrelated note, you should reconsider feeding your bp medium rats. Male bps do just fine on small rats (45 - 85 g) for their entire lives.

Progress?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...b/IMG-0215.jpg

Uncurled in my son's lap and tried to escape and then I picked him up with two hands, rotating from supporting chest-ish to tail as he moved and eventually he wrapped around my arm. Sign of comfort? I transferred to my son and I noticed as I helped my son support him, the snake would more readily wrap around my hand so maybe that's a sign that he has a new association with my scent?

Anyway, definitely the most action we've had in 2 years!

I've never found it easy to read a snake's emotional cues. I've found this chart helpful.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...t__handout.jpg

Progress is moving from red and yellow to green.

I think people have the most trouble with reading those "S" curves that snakes form no matter what- it takes time (lots of practice) to pick up on snake moods. :cool: But also know that we can influence them- that's what 'fun' is to me. Making that scared, defensive snake realize it's safe with me.

I'm late to this discussion, but wanted to add something I haven't read so far.

With our BP, she handles well BUT recoils into her hide or otherwise retreats if we approach her either too quickly or from the front. I think she confuses the act of reaching for her from the front with an aggressive movement or possibly an attack. If we slowly approach her from the side, aiming for the body and not the head or neck, she "might" have a momentary flinch when we first touch her (usually not, but it happens), but generally she's much more relaxed. I will also give a couple of strokes down her body, going with the direction of her scales and not against it, and this also seems to relax her to the point where she doesn't resist being picked up.

We also don't handle her a couple of days before we feed her, as she's getting hungry and more likely to misinterpret your presence as food, or for 3 days after we feed her to ensure there's no chance of regurgitating.

We've never had any problems by following these simple rules. Best of luck!

Ian

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Originally Posted by Ian C

I'm late to this discussion, but wanted to add something I haven't read so far.

With our BP, she handles well BUT recoils into her hide or otherwise retreats if we approach her either too quickly or from the front. I think she confuses the act of reaching for her from the front with an aggressive movement or possibly an attack. If we slowly approach her from the side, aiming for the body and not the head or neck, she "might" have a momentary flinch when we first touch her (usually not, but it happens), but generally she's much more relaxed. I will also give a couple of strokes down her body, going with the direction of her scales and not against it, and this also seems to relax her to the point where she doesn't resist being picked up.

We also don't handle her a couple of days before we feed her, as she's getting hungry and more likely to misinterpret your presence as food, or for 3 days after we feed her to ensure there's no chance of regurgitating.

We've never had any problems by following these simple rules. Best of luck!

Ian

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Your observations are correct- just remember that snakes do NOT identify us visually* (at least many snakes don't, & certainly not ball pythons) so naturally when they see a large creature approaching them head-on, they instinctively assume "predator" & feel threatened. (*Snakes with better eye sight & therefore better visual recognition abilities include- in my experience- rattlesnakes, rat snakes, bull & gopher snakes, & cobras. But all snakes appreciate additional "cues" from us.)

Conversely, when you sidle up to a snake, you're approaching them the way another snake & potential mate does...a gentle touch on their side mid-body lets them know you're not a predator, not a threat, & possibly even a mate (though your scent & other cues will rule that out). "Body language" is everything to a snake- when we get it right.

Years back I was in my local pet store & they asked me for help with an "aggressive young rat snake" that they couldn't handle & therefore couldn't sell. It was a yearling Everglades rat snake & he was in his hide, naturally terrified. (He'd had a previous owner, then escaped outside for months, & once re-captured, was returned to the store as no longer wanted.) Rather than lift off his hide, exposing & terrifying him as the store employees had been doing, I simply slid my hand under & into the hide with the snake, whereby I was able to reassure him by touch, & pick him up without any bites. I ended up with the snake- he was fine- like many pet stores (& all too many owners), they just didn't understand snakes very well. We have to remember to communicate on their terms, not on ours.

And for sure, don't mix handling with meal-times...:rolleyes: Ian, you covered that perfectly. :gj:

Thank you!

I'm way more confident with her than I was when I first joined here, and am at the point where I feel I can contribute more than just asking questions. :)

Ian

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I simply slid my hand under & into the hide with the snake, whereby I was able to reassure him by touch, & pick him up without any bites. I ended up with the snake- he was fine-

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With my snappier neonate boas, I've gotten into the habit of holding an index card or similar in front of their face with one hand and going in from the side and underneath with my other to pick them up. They don't see the "aggressive" approach of my hand, and once they're in hand they're pretty chill. The same sort of approach works pretty well with snakes that see my incoming hand as food (which, after all, is in fact made of meat and so the snake's interpretation isn't unwarranted).