BP wants more rats

My ball python has been putting on weight steadily, and is getting close to 300 grams. She eats extremely well, and in the past has started consistently looking for food about 3 nights after eating. Tonight she was out acting all hungry just 1 day after eating, and even struck across the enclosure at empty space as I lifted the lid to reposition one of her hides. She's been getting a pup rat once per week for awhile now, and to me her body condition looks on the heavy side. I think this because of the thickness of her neck, width of body relative to head, and creases of fat visible when she curls up. However, her spine seems to stand out in the way it's supposed to. Temps/humidity in the enclosure are consistent with the care guide.

What do you think of this snake's body condition? Should I adjust her feeding schedule in some way? She has always pooped rarely, maybe once a month at most. Is the high appetite + infrequent pooping potentially a symptom of worms?

Also, so long as I'm posting this - I put her on paper towels a couple of weeks ago to verify that those black spots aren't mites. They really don't seem to be (and I've tested with a wet paper towel as well), so I assume they're just part of her coloration? Nothing on her belly scales, they just exist on her sides.
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(These images are hotlinked from an aws S3 bucket that I own, so don't blacklist it for hotlinking if that's how that works)

Beautiful BP! It's great that she's eating well and she looks healthy to me though I agree she's getting a bit round. You could maybe increase the time between feedings to 10-14 days.

High appetite + infrequent poop for a BP her size is just a sign that she's growing :) Once per month is also very normal for BP poop.

It's also normal for her to be acting hungry 1-3 days after eating. The smell of the rat lingers in the enclosure after a feeding which causes many BPs to stay in "food mode" for a few days - mine does too.

As she grows from 300-600 grams and starts eating bigger rodents she'll only need to eat every 14 days, and once she's reached 1000+ grams, you can taper off to feeding every 2-3 weeks. Once she's fully grown and a few years old, she may only need to eat every 3-4 weeks or when she shows signs of hunger (waiting with her neck out in an "s" shape like in your last photo).

Also, those speckles on her side look like normal markings to me. If you want to be sure, you can also look under her chin, around her eyes and heat pits, and at her vent for any black specks as that's where mites like to hide.

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Originally Posted by Luvyna

Beautiful BP!

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I've got nothing to add to Luvyna's post above except to second her beautiful BP comment.:salute:

She's very pretty. As far as her body condition (& this applies to all snakes), when they're young, the young rodents they're eating have a higher fat content than more mature rodents (because they're not weaned- they're still nursing) , so a snake that's eating them can easily pack on a little more body fat for a while- that's why it's important to gradually increase the size (age) of the rodent as the snake itself grows larger, & also to gradually increase the length of time between meals.

As already mentioned, it's quite common for snakes to stay in "feed mode" for hours or even a few days after a meal. But after that, if they're seriously looking for more food (& just like us, some have bigger appetites than others) it might be time to size up (age up) the rodents, because the younger rodents (all pinkies, & fuzzy mice or rat pups) are digested faster, because their fur isn't so thick yet (the greater amount of "fiber" slows digestion down) & they have smaller bones (less mineral content). That also means that their meals are digested with less waste they need to expel (ie. less frequent defecation). This is also why you don't want to continuously feed adult snakes on what is essentially snake "baby food" as they'll pack on too much baby-fat themselves. See?

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'll start feeding a bit less frequently for now, and increase the rat sizes later. I'm glad to hear her poop frequency is not abnormal.

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Originally Posted by Gobuchul

Thanks everyone for the responses. I'll start feeding a bit less frequently for now, and increase the rat sizes later. I'm glad to hear her poop frequency is not abnormal.

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The nice thing about snakes is that if you think they're getting a bit "chubby", you can either change up the prey, or offer at a slightly longer interval (even a day or 2 will make a difference). Bear in mind that for snakes, there's no such thing in the wild as eating on a schedule- that's totally a human convenience. Young hatchlings are normally fed once a week (on average), but by the time they're a year old, or even before, it's usually time to lengthen the intervals.

You'd be surprised at how often we're asked about a snake that's not "going" enough & must be constipated...:D Many assume 1 meal in = 1 pile out, but that's not true, especially with young, easily-digested prey. Snakes keep more of the nutrition with less waste, but as previously noted, in time, the more mature prey is essential for minerals & more protein (greater muscle mass in mature prey).

Hard to reduce feeding frequency when she's out acting hungry every night. Tonight I dropped the rat and she climbed out of the enclosure to try eating my leg instead. She eventually got scared by my antics as I tried to pick up the rat, and went back into her hide. Came out again 2 minutes later and ate the rat when re-offered.

She's definitely ready to move up in size from pup rats. I'm moving in 2 weeks though, so she's going to have to make it off pups until then.

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Just off-hand, I'd say your leg would be a bit too much for her. :rofl: Not saying she'll agree though.

This snake has now been on weaned rats since the start of august, and still waits for food every night. I moved at the start and end of august, and I'm glad neither of those moves put her off food at all. I did reduce feeding frequency, and I'll post some more pics when that change has had more time.

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Gorgeous BP! I’m glad she’s eating well for you. BPs can be finicky feeders sometimes but your girl seems pretty voracious right now.

She did make a squeaking noise a few times while eating last night. She had dropped it after wrapping, then picked it up the wrong way, dropped it again, and finally taken it by the head when re-offered. It sounded like a hard exhale around the blockage of the food. She got it down ok and otherwise acted normal. I didn't think the rat was particularly big, but I haven't seen symptoms of breathing issues at other times. She also stayed kind of vertical and squeaked a few times with a bunch of substrate in her mouth after the rat had gone down.

I wonder if I should try to reduce the amount of substrate sticking to her rats. I didn't think feeding on a plate would work too well since she always drags the rat around after grabbing.

Edit: This was also the first time I fed her without the lid of the enclosure (since temps/humidity were high in the whole room.) I had previously noticed the low ceiling limit how vertical she could go while swallowing the rat, so maybe not having the lid just meant she exerted herself by going higher?

Snakes do weird things sometimes. I try not to draw conclusions from a single instance. Keep an eye on it. If it repeats, then consider doing something about it.

What is the substrate? Is the rat wet? Making sure those two issues are not a problem would probably minimize the substrate ingestion risk.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

What is the substrate? Is the rat wet? Making sure those two issues are not a problem would probably minimize the substrate ingestion risk.

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Coconut fiber, rat is wet. Definitely a fair bit of it sticks to the rat. I hadn't been drying the rat because it was easier and neater not to do so, and I'd read elsewhere on this forum that it doesn't matter if the snake eats some substrate.

Just to clarify on the coco fiber, you mean fine like the dirt? That's usually not too big of a worry since it is such small bits. Still nice to try and reduce it if the rat is wet just so it doesn't irritate too much.
If it was a large number of chunks of coco chip I would worry a bit and try to cut back on how much they swallow.

I've had a couple snakes just sit and take some big breaths after they eat. They're usually the ones that really seem to work at it. Some of my slower eaters have no trouble with it. I do try to keep my feeders dry though when reheating them. Some of mine get fussy if they don't smell enough. lol, so they're in freezer bags while in the spa

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Just to clarify on the coco fiber, you mean fine like the dirt? That's usually not too big of a worry since it is such small bits. Still nice to try and reduce it if the rat is wet just so it doesn't irritate too much.
If it was a large number of chunks of coco chip I would worry a bit and try to cut back on how much they swallow.

I've had a couple snakes just sit and take some big breaths after they eat. They're usually the ones that really seem to work at it. Some of my slower eaters have no trouble with it. I do try to keep my feeders dry though when reheating them. Some of mine get fussy if they don't smell enough. lol, so they're in freezer bags while in the spa

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Yeah, it's fine stuff, no chips. I suppose it wouldn't be hard for me to start putting the rats in ziplock bags for thawing, I just didn't want to deal with air in there making the thaws inconsistent. This snake isn't picky about the smell, although I have seen her become more animated immediately after the few times I've pinched rat nose.

I would very strongly recommend against coco fiber. The fact that it is small bits seems, anecdotally, not to matter regarding a blockage risk. Coco chip doesn't tend to stick to rodents, and is a good option in my opinion (it is what I use for all snakes that need a moisture tolerant substrate). Coco chip can be purchased in different sizes, and these sizes can be chosen in part on whether the snake is likely to ingest that size chunk.

Thawing the rat out in the air at a warm room temp works well for me for thawing scores of rodents weekly. I put mine on top of enclosure lights to speed things up, but room temp is fine. Some snakes may demand some particular thawing/warming procedure, but if that's not necessary then simply leaving it out to thaw would be my choice.

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I would very strongly recommend against coco fiber. The fact that it is small bits seems, anecdotally, not to matter regarding a blockage risk. Coco chip doesn't tend to stick to rodents, and is a good option in my opinion (it is what I use for all snakes that need a moisture tolerant substrate). Coco chip can be purchased in different sizes, and these sizes can be chosen in part on whether the snake is likely to ingest that size chunk.

Thawing the rat out in the air at a warm room temp works well for me for thawing scores of rodents weekly. I put mine on top of enclosure lights to speed things up, but room temp is fine. Some snakes may demand some particular thawing/warming procedure, but if that's not necessary then simply leaving it out to thaw would be my choice.

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Interesting. I hate to abandon coconut fiber when I have quite a large supply on hand, but if others concur it's risky I'll switch. I'll start thawing in bags anyways, it'll make things neater overall. Winter is the only time I even need my substrate to keep humidity up, aside from that it just needs to absorb some urine. Paper towels were a pain because they spread the urine over a large part of the enclosure. If I were to switch to chunks, what size do you recommend? Is there a different substrate I could use during high humidity months when I don't need it to hold moisture?

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I would very strongly recommend against coco fiber. The fact that it is small bits seems, anecdotally, not to matter regarding a blockage risk. Coco chip doesn't tend to stick to rodents, and is a good option in my opinion (it is what I use for all snakes that need a moisture tolerant substrate). Coco chip can be purchased in different sizes, and these sizes can be chosen in part on whether the snake is likely to ingest that size chunk.

Thawing the rat out in the air at a warm room temp works well for me for thawing scores of rodents weekly. I put mine on top of enclosure lights to speed things up, but room temp is fine. Some snakes may demand some particular thawing/warming procedure, but if that's not necessary then simply leaving it out to thaw would be my choice.

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Thats how I thaw out the frozen rodents ..

Have you tried the hairdryer method for actually feeding , incidentally ??


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Originally Posted by Zincubus

Have you tried the hairdryer method for actually feeding , incidentally ??

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I have not, but I don't have any snakes that are fussy specifically about prey temps.

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Originally Posted by Gobuchul

If I were to switch to chunks, what size do you recommend? Is there a different substrate I could use during high humidity months when I don't need it to hold moisture?

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For a BP with any size to it, I would (and I do) personally use the regular size of ReptiChip. That brand offers smaller sizes that are useful for smaller snakes, but the regular size would be best I think. There are other brands too, but the couple others I've tried I didn't think were as good (too big, too hard of chips -- might be more suitable for large snake species, which I don't keep).

I would just use that substrate all the time, unless there's some pressing reason not to.

BP after failing to eat a rat sideways:
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This was tricky because my tongs are in mite land now and I couldn't find my other pair, so I had to get the rat back by hand to heat it again (she missed the head because it wasn't warm enough the first time.) She was ready to do battle over it, and was smacking anything that touched her with her body. She had previously been entirely on top of the rat, but backed off it a bit just before this photo. I tried blocking her view with a paper towel, and that scared her away into a hide. She came back out and ate when re-offered though. It must've still been a bit cold because she neither stuck nor wrapped, but just slowly approached and began to consume.

The first time, she was all in on eating it sideways for about 15 minutes. This plan was never successful enough to be dangerous, but she squeaked louder than I've heard before while dragging the rat around. I guess it's just the exertion of mopping the whole enclosure with a rat.

Current condition of bp. She still looks somewhat overfed when curled up in the hide, but less so when inspecting her spine and tail. 10 day feeding schedule seems about right. I've cheated it by a day or two a few times because she still acts hungry. I plan to be stricter with it now to space feedings out a little more on average. Less handling recently because I haven't wanted to risk spreading mites, so not a lot of exercise for her I guess. New enclosures for both snakes soon, just waiting to make sure Nim's mites aren't going to come back.

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It looks like the bp might even be pushing a bit right now. It's 8 days since last feeding and she's pacing in a manner consistent with being hungry. I'll have all the parts for move in to new enclosures by friday, but I wanted to wait until at least the end of the month for the move. I need to use some things that have been near Nim's current enclosure in the bp's new enclosure, so I'm concerned about contamination. I haven't seen any signs of mites on or around Nim since using the nexgard two weeks ago.

Considering the pushing though, I figure I better do the enclosure switch soon. I just opened the lid and the bp climbed halfway out to strike at me, so she's definitely looking for food atm. I'm not sure how I should balance mite quarantine, bp pushing, and overfeeding. She seems happy enough to climb around the lip of her enclosure under supervision tonight, but I don't know for sure when else she has been or will be pushing.

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Originally Posted by Gobuchul

It looks like the bp might even be pushing a bit right now. It's 8 days since last feeding and she's pacing in a manner consistent with being hungry. I'll have all the parts for move in to new enclosures by friday, but I wanted to wait until at least the end of the month for the move. I need to use some things that have been near Nim's current enclosure in the bp's new enclosure, so I'm concerned about contamination. I haven't seen any signs of mites on or around Nim since using the nexgard two weeks ago.

Considering the pushing though, I figure I better do the enclosure switch soon. I just opened the lid and the bp climbed halfway out to strike at me, so she's definitely looking for food atm. I'm not sure how I should balance mite quarantine, bp pushing, and overfeeding. She seems happy enough to climb around the lip of her enclosure under supervision tonight, but I don't know for sure when else she has been or will be pushing.

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As long as she's not injuring herself, I wouldn't rush her into the new enclosure. It's more important to deal with the mites. Look for swelling on the lips or the top of the head. If you don't see any, let her roam. The exercise is good for her.