Possibly sick BP, could really use some help figuring out if it's a big deal or not

Okay, sorry for the very long post, but things have been weird and I'm stressing.

So I have a beautiful 4 yr old Albino BP named Daisy. I've had him for a little under two years without any issues, up until this past winter. The issues started slowly, but suddenly escalated over this past weekend. Also, I have a second BP named Basira, who's in a similar set up and is the same age.

I had to move in December, and with it being winter and also having the move, I did not question it too much when Daisy stopped eating as consistently. But then, around mid Feb, his behavior started to change. He started soaking in his water bowl daily. He has never done this before. I looked into various different causes and discovered that apparently in the new apartment, the tanks won't hold heat as well as before, and the temp was dipping too low during cold days. (He did not have mites, and while he did shed, that did not stop the soaking behavior. In fact, he kept shedding. Like... 3 times in one month). So I insulated the tanks more and went back to checking the temp manually (as opposed to relying on the thermostats to tell me when it got to cold, because they did not tell me there was a problem).

At the time, he didn't look any different, but since the soaking habit didn't seem to be going away, I lowered the humidity some and just kept an eye on him. The tanks still won't get quite as warm as I'd like (can't seem to get them past 85-90), but they aren't dropping below safe levels anymore. Then I just tried leaving him be to see if he just needed extra time to settle. Of note, his tank has not changed at all. Just the room it's in.

The last successful feed (F/T small rat) was early March. Around mid April, he ate but then regurgitated it up a couple of days later (another thing he's never done before. I also was not handling him at all at this time). He stopped soaking daily around that same time, but still dirties his water way more often then he used to. He has also refused to even touch any food since the regurgitation.

Then, this past weekend, I went to handle him for the day and realized that he had some scale rot towards the base of his tail. Slightly upsetting, but I thought I caught it early. So I scheduled a vet appointment and went about cleaning the scales once a day while I waited for the appointment, which was today. Now we get into the really messy stuff.

There's only one vet in my town that will look at snakes, and he admitted before we even started that he wasn't as experienced with them as he could be. Which, fair. It sucks, but fair. I told him all of the above and showed him Daisy's belly. That's when he drops that he thinks its actually Septicemia. (Cue panic) His reasoning was that daisy's belly was very pink, which it is. (I initially discounted the pink belly because Daisy's belly always gets a little pink around shed time. But upon pointing it out, it does look a little different from that sort of pink belly), and also that his eyes were cloudy (once again, not the same as when he's about to shed. His eyes turn kind of pale orange when he's about to shed, but currently his eyes are straight up foggy). I had not noticed the foggy eyes somehow, and I'm really mad at myself for missing that.

Problem is, that vet doesn't have the tools to do blood work on snakes. If I want to know for sure, I'd have to drive two hours to the nearest mega city for a specialist. I thanked him and left. Called the specialist and set up an appointment for the nearest time I could manage, which is Friday morning. Functionally speaking though, I could go in tonight. It would cost twice as much, and would really mess with my work schedule for tomorrow, which is the only day of the week where I need to be on my game. But like... I love my babies and I will do it if I have to.

Problem is I don't know if I have to? I tried looking up stuff about Septicemia and realized that it was way scarier than I originally thought. The posts I found (on this forum), mostly showed images of snakes much farther along than Daisy seems to be, but they also were all too late to save them, and like... I panicked. But I know I have a tendency to do so, so I tried to get a second opinion, just on whether or not I needed to go tonight, or if I could wait till Friday. So I reached out to the friend who originally gave me Daisy and Basira, and she told me to call the local "Expert".

Dennis is not a vet, but he is a BP breeder, and he's been doing it for a long time. The vet did say that he wasn't as experienced with snakes, and with no other options, I figured a breeder with lots of experience would hopefully be able to tell me if this was "Go tonight" bad or just "go when you can" bad.

According to him though, there is nothing wrong with my snake at all. He didn't even think the scale rot was scale rot, insisting instead that it was just dirt. He said the pink belly and foggy eyes just meant that Daisy needs to shed (ignoring the fact that I insisted this does not look the same as pre-shed belly and eyes stuff), and when I mentioned the feeding issues, he said it was because I was feeding F/T and that I needed to just feed them Live. He (very forcefully) opened Daisy's mouth to check in there and said it all looked good, and then rubbed his eyes to try to prove that the hazy eyes were just old eye caps...

If it is not apparent yet, I did not really like my interaction with Dennis.

I can acknowledge that I have a tendency to assume the worst and worry over things that aren't actually that big of a deal. That's why I was willing to ask for a second opinion. And of note, I still intend on bringing Daisy to the vet regardless. I am just still stuck on the issue of "is it dire or not?" So now I'm asking for a third opinion.

I don't have a very good photo of Daisy's belly, since his encounter with Dennis stressed him out and I didn't want to bother him anymore, but I have these photos if they will help at all.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...b0efa3eb1368&=
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...1b08fa06756d&=

So yeah... Any help would be appreciated. Even if it's just reassurance that I am over-reacting to some minor scale rot. It's just... this is all coming after months of steadily increasing worry over slightly strange behaviors.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rai

The tanks still won't get quite as warm as I'd like (can't seem to get them past 85-90), but they aren't dropping below safe levels anymore.

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Can you confirm the temps on the enclosure?

Ambient Temps for Ball Pythons:
80-85F Comfortable
86-90F Uncomfortable
91+F Destructive/Lethal.

UTH Temps (should only be available in a small section of the enclosure):
85-88F Comfortable
89+F Uncomfortable

If you are pushing 85+ on your temps then your ball python is going to soak constantly in an attempt to try and lower its body temp.

I would put the bp on paper towels until the discoloration on the belly goes away (scale rot/dirt/or not).

Note: It looks easily reparable from the photos shown and hardly an emergency or dire situation.

Well, first off, frequent shedding is often seen in snakes that are sick or injured...their body is trying to heal.

You mentioned the temperatures were too low for a while (how low???), & fyi, that causes a snake's immune system to not work very well, making them more likely to get sick from whatever pathogens they've come across.

A BP that's not eating might be sick; then again, he might be too cold to digest. A snake that throws up their meal might be sick...then again, if they're too cold to digest, they'll throw it up. So exactly what temperatures has he been kept at? Also, once a snake regurgitates their meal (for any reason) you need to wait at least 2 or 3 weeks before feeding them again. Did you do that? Because trying to feed them too soon will also just cause another regurgitation if they haven't been able to replace their digestive enzymes quite yet. It takes time- a couple weeks+.

You mentioned Daisy kept soaking in his water bowl, but that's also when the tank temperatures were too low. That makes no sense. :confusd: Snakes soak for many reasons, including dehydration, too warm, mites, illness, burns, internal parasites, shedding (-but not usually unless their humidity has been too low).

You also said ..."The tanks still won't get quite as warm as I'd like (can't seem to get them past 85-90)". So how warm were you keeping them & what kind of heat? If UTH, the pink belly could very well be a burn. And fyi, we generally recommend that the warmest portion of a BPs home not exceed 90* to avoid them being burned. Some snakes- including BPs- don't seem to know when they're too hot & being injured by excess heat- maybe because they're heavy-bodied & it takes longer for them to really feel the heat enough to react? BTW- I sure hope the heating sources are controlled by a quality thermostat- that's often how snakes get burned. If (?) he has a burn, that's painful & serious too-it takes time to heal, & the snake should be on antibiotic (after being seen by a qualified vet) A snake in pain may not want to eat, so this is another possibility.

There's no real way for us to tell online what exactly is going on with Daisy's belly scutes- I've seen snakes where substrate gets embedded & looks kinda like that- but what kind of substrate is he on??? Have you tried washing it off? I can also remember someone that was in a panic because some reddish coloration (dye) from the substrate came off on their white snake... ;)

I've never personally had a snake with septicemia, but yes, it's serious so let's hope it's not that. But I guess that's also a possibility if a vet thought so. :confusd: The scutes don't really look pink in that photo though? And yes, some pinkish color may also indicate a coming shed. (An adult shedding 3 times in a month is a lot & not normal.)

Much as we have lots of experience & want to help you, we're in no position to diagnose your snake here (nor would it be ethical), but from everything you've said, sooner (to see a qualified vet) is better than later, though I'm not saying it's an emergency either . Remember we're just seeing still photos, not the real snake- a good diagnosis requires a qualified person seeing the actual snake. This might help you find another one: https://members.arav.org/search/custom.asp?id=3661

Do let us know how it goes...I hope you get this figured out & I hope it's nothing serious like septicemia.

"In fact, he kept shedding. Like... 3 times in one month". The long time breeder ignored this symptom, which seems to me to be the interesting one.

This is an interesting symptom too: "but still dirties his water way more often then he used to."

Personally, I would not freak out (it doesn't help), but would go to the vet on Friday and request extensive testing.

Also, I would get some enclosures that hold heat well. BPs are enough of a challenge without fighting with sub optimal equipment. PVC enclosure, RHP on a quality thermostat (Herpstat) can make a world of difference in avoiding health problems and keeper headaches.

Good luck, and please keep us posted. :)

First, if a vet says that your BP is possibly septic, then you need need get that confirmed and/or treated asap. I don't see how there can be nothing wrong with your BP. You've described a bunch of symptoms that individually would be worrisome. Taken together, they require immediate action. The regurgitation and the frequent shedding are particularly concerning.

Secondly, I'd like to help you get your BP's set up dialed in. A properly set up enclosure will help your BP heal and prevent future issues. So, what type of enclosure are you using (PVC, wood, glass)(screen top, front opening)? How big is it? What are you using to heat the enclosure? What thermostats do you use? What are the temperature (low to basking) and humidity ranges like in your enclosure, now? How are you measuring them? What type of bedding do you use? How often do you change it? Don't worry if you don't know the answers to all these questions. Just answer them the best that you can. Pics would help a lot. This thread will show you how to post them:https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures.

I want to finish by saying that I admire the diligence you've shown in addressing these issues. It speaks of someone that really cares. Good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Sorril

Can you confirm the temps on the enclosure?

Ambient Temps for Ball Pythons:
80-85F Comfortable
86-90F Uncomfortable
91+F Destructive/Lethal.

UTH Temps (should only be available in a small section of the enclosure):
85-88F Comfortable
89+F Uncomfortable

If you are pushing 85+ on your temps then your ball python is going to soak constantly in an attempt to try and lower its body temp.

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Apologies, I should have been more specific. The tank set up I received with the snakes. There is a UTH on the cool side, but with a lot of substrate between it and the snake itself (it's a bio-active enclosure). The ground rarely gets past 80 on the cool side, and often sits at between 75 and 80. When the temps were too low, they dropped down to 72 at the lowest.

For the hot side, I have an over the tank ceramic lamp. Above the hide, it's never gotten above 95, but for some reason, the hide itself blocks a ton of heat, so when it said 95 on top, that almost always meant that the temp below the hide was 85. When I can, I use the temp gun directly under the hide, to get a more accurate reading, but a lot of the times, daisy will plug the hole with his body, making that not viable. Hence listing the above the hide temp.

So to properly clarify, during "the cold time", the cold side was sitting around 70 on the ground, and on the hot side it was 80 at the highest. I've currently gotten it about 5 degrees warmer than that on both sides, with the insulation I've put all over.

I would say that 70*-75* F. is ALL too cool for a BP, & also that 91*-95* over the hide is too hot- if your snake decides to slide on top of his hide (as they all do at times) that could have burned his scutes (belly), causing issues like soaking to relieve pain & lack of appetite, etc. You really want a narrower range- nothing below 78* on the cool side. I know it's a challenge, but no one ever said BPs are easy snakes to keep- not me, anyway. In order to keep snakes healthy, it's important to provide the temperatures they require in captivity, since they're not free to seek them out. It makes a difference in how well their immune system functions, not to mention their digestion.

Did the regurgitations line up with the time that temperatures were too low?

Still can't say for sure if your snake is sick or how sick, but fixing the husbandry will go a long way, no matter what, at getting him healthy & feeding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

A BP that's not eating might be sick; then again, he might be too cold to digest. A snake that throws up their meal might be sick...then again, if they're too cold to digest, they'll throw it up. So exactly what temperatures has he been kept at? Also, once a snake regurgitates their meal (for any reason) you need to wait at least 2 or 3 weeks before feeding them again. Did you do that? Because trying to feed them too soon will also just cause another regurgitation if they haven't been able to replace their digestive enzymes quite yet. It takes time- a couple weeks+.

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I looked online and must have found the wrong information, because I was under the impression I could try again after 1-1.5 weeks. I waited more than a week, but I don't think it was a full two weeks. But as I said, he didn't even touch his food at the time. But I will definitely keep that in mind for the future, thank you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You mentioned Daisy kept soaking in his water bowl, but that's also when the tank temperatures were too low. That makes no sense. :confusd: Snakes soak for many reasons, including dehydration, too warm, mites, illness, burns, internal parasites, shedding (-but not usually unless their humidity has been too low).

You also said ..."The tanks still won't get quite as warm as I'd like (can't seem to get them past 85-90)". So how warm were you keeping them & what kind of heat? If UTH, the pink belly could very well be a burn. And fyi, we generally recommend that the warmest portion of a BPs home not exceed 90* to avoid them being burned. Some snakes- including BPs- don't seem to know when they're too hot & being injured by excess heat- maybe because they're heavy-bodied & it takes longer for them to really feel the heat enough to react? BTW- I sure hope the heating sources are controlled by a quality thermostat- that's often how snakes get burned. If (?) he has a burn, that's painful & serious too-it takes time to heal, & the snake should be on antibiotic (after being seen by a qualified vet) A snake in pain may not want to eat, so this is another possibility.

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I looked online for reasons why a snake might soak, and did see many options, but one of them had said that the tank being too cold might cause it. If that's not true, then now I'm even more confused. The tank definitely wasn't too warm, there are guaranteed no mites, and the tanks humidity was around 60%, which was normally fine for shedding for him. The only thing you listed that I didn't check was for internal parasites (not sure if that's something I even could check for myself), so perhaps that's it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

There's no real way for us to tell online what exactly is going on with Daisy's belly scutes- I've seen snakes where substrate gets embedded & looks kinda like that- but what kind of substrate is he on??? Have you tried washing it off? I can also remember someone that was in a panic because some reddish coloration (dye) from the substrate came off on their white snake... ;)

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He has a bio-active enclosure, so the substrate is a mix of things (sand, coconut fiber, leaf litter (ordered online, not gathered from outside), some activated charcoal, a decent bit of hydroton at the very bottom), and he does 100% get dirt under his scales, especially when he's bulldozing over any new plants I try to add. This is definitely not that. Normally, with him, dirt will move around as you handle the snake, even if its under the scales. This does not. It's like the scales themselves are brown in some spots. Because I thought it was scale rot initially, I had been cleaning his belly with diluted chlorhexidine, which I had found suggested online, so yes, I had tried washing it off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I've never personally had a snake with septicemia, but yes, it's serious so let's hope it's not that. But I guess that's also a possibility if a vet thought so. :confusd: The scutes don't really look pink in that photo though? And yes, some pinkish color may also indicate a coming shed. (An adult shedding 3 times in a month is a lot & not normal.)

Much as we have lots of experience & want to help you, we're in no position to diagnose your snake here (nor would it be ethical), but from everything you've said, sooner (to see a qualified vet) is better than later, though I'm not saying it's an emergency either . Remember we're just seeing still photos, not the real snake- a good diagnosis requires a qualified person seeing the actual snake. This might help you find another one: https://members.arav.org/search/custom.asp?id=3661

Do let us know how it goes...I hope you get this figured out & I hope it's nothing serious like septicemia.

---

Thank you, and I do completely understand. Photos are incredibly limited when it comes to trying to show this sort of stuff. And thank you for that link! Unfortunately I still have to drive out 2 hours to get to the nearest specialist, but at least now I know with more certainty that they actually are a specialist. And yes, I will most definitely keep everyone updated. Thank you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I would say that 70*-75* F. is ALL too cool for a BP, & also that 91*-95* over the hide is too hot- if your snake decides to slide on top of his hide (as they all do at times) that could have burned his scutes (belly), causing issues like soaking to relieve pain & lack of appetite, etc. You really want a narrower range- nothing below 78* on the cool side. I know it's a challenge, but no one ever said BPs are easy snakes to keep- not me, anyway. In order to keep snakes healthy, it's important to provide the temperatures they require in captivity, since they're not free to seek them out. It makes a difference in how well their immune system functions, not to mention their digestion.

Did the regurgitations line up with the time that temperatures were too low?

Still can't say for sure if your snake is sick or how sick, but fixing the husbandry will go a long way, no matter what, at getting him healthy & feeding.

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No, that is completely fair. Any way I can improve the husbandry, I will try. Is it normal for hides to block that much heat? Or would replacing the hide make it easier to keep things more uniform?

Additionally, the regurgitation happened after I was already warming things up, but I will admit that it took some time to manage it, so I won't say it couldn't have been the cold.

After you get whatever is amiss with him cleared up with the vet's help, you might consider undoing the "bioactive" setup and rebuilding it in a more suitable way. Unfortunately, that style of enclosure design can be and often is more harmful than helpful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

"In fact, he kept shedding. Like... 3 times in one month". The long time breeder ignored this symptom, which seems to me to be the interesting one.

This is an interesting symptom too: "but still dirties his water way more often then he used to."

Personally, I would not freak out (it doesn't help), but would go to the vet on Friday and request extensive testing.

Also, I would get some enclosures that hold heat well. BPs are enough of a challenge without fighting with sub optimal equipment. PVC enclosure, RHP on a quality thermostat (Herpstat) can make a world of difference in avoiding health problems and keeper headaches.

Good luck, and please keep us posted. :)

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I should possibly clarify, when I said "dirties his water" I mostly mean he's clearly going in there somewhat often, its just not as often as he was previously. Like, he wasn't constantly soaking, but he was in the bowl more often then he was before this all started.

And yes, I'm definitely starting to realize that. I'm not sure why it's only just now started having issues holding in heat, but I'm not a fan. And I will most definitely keep you all posted! Thank you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

After you get whatever is amiss with him cleared up with the vet's help, you might consider undoing the "bioactive" setup and rebuilding it in a more suitable way. Unfortunately, that style of enclosure design can be and often is more harmful than helpful.

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Yeah, I'm definitely starting to realize that. The set up came with the snakes, and it was fun to learn about the process and how it all worked, but it definitely makes addressing problems a lot harder, I'm discovering. Also made moving the tanks quite a pain too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rai

Yeah, I'm definitely starting to realize that. The set up came with the snakes, and it was fun to learn about the process and how it all worked, but it definitely makes addressing problems a lot harder, I'm discovering. Also made moving the tanks quite a pain too.

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When you said 'a decent bit of hydroton at the very bottom' it was apparent that this is one of those 'jam it in a bioactive' things that the previous owner did without understanding what they were doing but were just hopping on the bandwagon.

With BPs, you can get 100% of the benefit of a "bioactive" with roughly zero percent of the potential harm by employing naturalistic design. Naturalistic enclosures use wood, cork bark, natural substrate materials, possibly a live plant or two (potted is best). I find that herps prefer natural materials over artificial materials, so naturalistic builds can have benefit for the snake.

With naturalistic design, you ignore the (very oversold) role of the "clean up crew" that doesn't actually do much clean up for an animal with the pooping habits of a BP. You also don't use a drainage layer (because it isn't necessary, since BP enclosures aren't misted enough to build up water in the drainage layer). This enables you to have a depth of substrate that is shallow enough that heating isn't such a challenge, expense, weight, and wasted enclosure space.

When/if you strip out your enclosure, if there are isopods or other microfauna in the substrate, be aware that it is both environmentally damaging and illegal (in the US) to release those isopods outside. Heating the substrate to kill them before disposing is best, though it is often thought responsible enough to double bag the substrate and put it into the regular trash. Whatever you do, don't compost it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homebody

First, if a vet says that your BP is possibly septic, then you need need get that confirmed and/or treated asap. I don't see how there can be nothing wrong with your BP. You've described a bunch of symptoms that individually would be worrisome. Taken together, they require immediate action. The regurgitation and the frequent shedding are particularly concerning.

Secondly, I'd like to help you get your BP's set up dialed in. A properly set up enclosure will help your BP heal and prevent future issues. So, what type of enclosure are you using (PVC, wood, glass)(screen top, front opening)? How big is it? What are you using to heat the enclosure? What thermostats do you use? What are the temperature (low to basking) and humidity ranges like in your enclosure, now? How are you measuring them? What type of bedding do you use? How often do you change it? Don't worry if you don't know the answers to all these questions. Just answer them the best that you can. Pics would help a lot. This thread will show you how to post them:https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures.

I want to finish by saying that I admire the diligence you've shown in addressing these issues. It speaks of someone that really cares. Good luck.

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Thank you T___T I really appreciate that. I really want to be a good snake parent, and it's upsetting to think I've let things be a problem for so long.

As for my enclosure, I am definitely down to make any changes I can, though I will admit, I'll likely spend every spare scent on just the vet visits, so it might be a while before I can do anything crazy (Especially since I have to make any changes twice). But I can at least share what I have now (and then post pictures when I get home.)

Tank:
40 gal breeder (I think) glass, with screens on top and front facing doors. There's an LED grow light on one side for lighting for both the plants and snakes.

Heating:
Brand new Zilla terrarium heat mat (16 watts) under the cool side
Brand new Fluker's Ceramic lamp w/ 60W ceramic bulb set up over the hot side
4 year old Herpstat EZ2 (I think) thermometer.

Substrate:
I mentioned earlier that it's a bio-active enclosure, entirely because that's what was given to me, and I found it interesting enough conceptually to maintain. So substrate is a mixture of eco earth, sand, some activated charcoal, leaf litter and hydroton.

I replaced the heat lamp and UTH because I was worried they weren't working well enough to keep the tank warm (and also my electricity bill is way higher than it should be), but that did not make any change at all. My next plan had been to replace the herpstat, in case that was causing some issues, but I would have to save up for that (my budget is very tight T___T).

But after all this, I'm unsure if that should be my first choice or if I should replace the tank and get rid of the bio-active part. I love my bugs, and its been very fun managing that whole process, but it seems to be causing some problems in addressing this sickness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

When you said 'a decent bit of hydroton at the very bottom' it was apparent that this is one of those 'jam it in a bioactive' things that the previous owner did without understanding what they were doing but were just hopping on the bandwagon.

With BPs, you can get 100% of the benefit of a "bioactive" with roughly zero percent of the potential harm by employing naturalistic design. Naturalistic enclosures use wood, cork bark, natural substrate materials, possibly a live plant or two (potted is best). I find that herps prefer natural materials over artificial materials, so naturalistic builds can have benefit for the snake.

With naturalistic design, you ignore the (very oversold) role of the "clean up crew" that doesn't actually do much clean up for an animal with the pooping habits of a BP. You also don't use a drainage layer (because it isn't necessary, since BP enclosures aren't misted enough to build up water in the drainage layer). This enables you to have a depth of substrate that is shallow enough that heating isn't such a challenge, expense, weight, and wasted enclosure space.

When/if you strip out your enclosure, if there are isopods or other microfauna in the substrate, be aware that it is both environmentally damaging and illegal (in the US) to release those isopods outside. Heating the substrate to kill them before disposing is best, though it is often thought responsible enough to double bag the substrate and put it into the regular trash. Whatever you do, don't compost it.

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Yeah, I think that was probably the case. At the time, I didn't question the hydroton, because my only experience with it had been an aquaponic fish tank. But with all of the substrate above that, it makes much less sense.

And thank you for the last bit as well. I wouldn't release anything without looking into it first, but it's nice to get a head start on that research. Fortunately, researching the legality and environmental impact of releasing certain animals is infinitely easier than researching snake husbandry stuff. There is so much conflicting information everywhere T___T

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

After you get whatever is amiss with him cleared up with the vet's help, you might consider undoing the "bioactive" setup and rebuilding it in a more suitable way. Unfortunately, that style of enclosure design can be and often is more harmful than helpful.

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I'll heartily second that. Keep it simpler & focus on the snake.
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Rai: In response to an earlier question about soaking in the water bowl, when snakes are fed live rodents (at any time in their life) they can end up with internal parasites ("worms") from the rodents that cause a loss of both nutrients & hydration. Then they may soak to improve hydration. When you see the vet, try to take a fresh stool sample for the vet to check for parasites, & if you don't have a fresh sample, ask the vet about it while there. If this is the case, it's pretty easy to treat for & cure, but when ignored, can really hurt a snake's health.

As far as snakes responding to cool temperatures by soaking in water (ie. trying to get even cooler?) that theoretically could apply to a snake that's trying to brumate, but BPs don't do that. I have also raised & bred many snakes (colubrids) that did brumate, & I don't recall any of them soaking in their bowls at that time of year, so? (Don't believe everything you read online- consider the source, & if deemed reliable, request an explanation.)

Also, 55-60% humidity is fine for most of the time (for a BP) but during a shed cycle, most find it helpful to raise humidity to 65-75%.

This is hard to keep up with all of us answering, isn't it? :rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'll heartily second that. Keep it simpler & focus on the snake.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Rai: In response to an earlier question about soaking in the water bowl, when snakes are fed live rodents (at any time in their life) they can end up with internal parasites ("worms") from the rodents that cause a loss of both nutrients & hydration. Then they may soak to improve hydration. When you see the vet, try to take a fresh stool sample for the vet to check for parasites, & if you don't have a fresh sample, ask the vet about it while there. If this is the case, it's pretty easy to treat for & cure, but when ignored, can really hurt a snake's health.

As far as snakes responding to cool temperatures by soaking in water (ie. trying to get even cooler?) that theoretically could apply to a snake that's trying to brumate, but BPs don't do that. I have also raised & bred many snakes (colubrids) that did brumate, & I don't recall any of them soaking in their bowls at that time of year, so? (Don't believe everything you read online- consider the source, & if deemed reliable, request an explanation.)

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Oh most definitely. When doing research, I try to find as many sources as possible, and preferably reliable ones. The issue I came across with the soaking was that the most common answers were proven not it, so I was kind of scrounging for any answer that it could be (that was left after crossing out the more well documented ones). Or perhaps more accurately, I was searching for any problem that would provide another potential solution to attempt.

Sorting through information online is challenging at the best of times, so I always take what I read with at least some grain of salt. The issue with husbandry stuff I keep coming up on is just the sheer amount of information available, much of which can be challenging to navigate and is often conflicting. And unfortunately, you heard what sort of "local experts" I have in my area.

And as for replies, honestly I'm very grateful! Though I do feel somewhat bad when two people ask a question and I only answer one lol, so hopefully that's not an issue.

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Originally Posted by Rai

Sorting through information online is challenging at the best of times, so I always take what I read with at least some grain of salt. The issue with husbandry stuff I keep coming up on is just the sheer amount of information available, much of which can be challenging to navigate and is often conflicting.

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One thing that helps a lot is knowing how to determine if an animal care site is written by someone knowledgable. Websites that should be ignored (found by searching 'ball python care') are:

-- those with cute, generic, or novelty names: 'cutesnakes.com', 'ilovepythons.com', 'happysnake.com' (I made these up, but you get the idea).

-- those that are 'Amazon Affiliates', who are just trying to sell stuff. One famous site of this sort is claiming that to care for a BP I need a UVB lamp (which isn't at all necessary) and Repashy Calcium Plus (which is a terrible idea, since Vitamin A overdose is pretty likely, and rodents already have a perfect calcium/phosphorus ratio). This site also recommends incandescent lamps for heat, and additionally a heat mat only if the room goes below 70F at night. This site also advises putting the heat mat temp probe in the enclosure with the snake (rather than taped to the mat, since "this does not enable the thermostat to control the temps that the animal feels, only how hot the heat mat itself gets. In other words, it renders the thermostat almost entirely ineffective."

-- those that have "care sheets" for a very wide range of herp species (snakes, lizards, turtles, frogs, in one I found). This is the easiest red flag to spot, and will weed out about 90% of the junk. No one knows how to care for all these species, and anyone who is very knowledgable about the one or two groups of animals they're invested in isn't going to publish a bunch of fluff about other species.

-- those that are way oversold: "This complete guide will teach you everything you need to know about ball python care." It might teach everything the author knows about ball python care, I suppose.

-- those that have impossibly basic information: "(Ball pythons) are known for their unique characteristics. They have stout body, a small head, and smooth scales. Their coloration varies widely, the most common being a base color of brown or black with light brown or gold sides and dorsal blotches. The belly is usually white or cream." Use this clue to tell what level of readership they're targeting, which is casual clickers rather than actual owners doing real research.

Unfortunately, it isn't possible to Google questions and get answers anymore -- the internet is flooded with AI written nonsense. You need to find a reliable source of information first, and then dig around there.

Hey, so figured I'd share an update after today's vet visit.

So the vet is fairly confident that it's not septicemia, and that the first vet (the one in my home town) likely just completely misidentified things. That being said, she did agree that the other symptoms were some cause for concern, just not immediate life or death concern. The plan was to draw blood for tests and send me home with antibiotics to give him over the next month, but they were unsuccessful in drawing blood, so the new plan is to start the antibiotics and monitor him closely over the next month. I may or may not (depending on how he responds to the antibiotics and better managed heat) bring him back in about a week and a half to try for the blood draw again.

Either way, I feel much better just knowing its not the one big bad thing. Still unsure what it is, but at least I have the time to find out now.

Thank you again for all of your help! Likely won't reply back today if solely because its been a very exhausting day, but I will still be around in general, and I'll definitely keep y'all posted if anything happens <3

:gj: I'm very glad it's not septicemia & that it's now a "work in progress".

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Originally Posted by Rai

So the vet is fairly confident that it's not septicemia, and that the first vet (the one in my home town) likely just completely misidentified things. That being said, she did agree that the other symptoms were some cause for concern, just not immediate life or death concern. The plan was to draw blood for tests and send me home with antibiotics to give him over the next month, but they were unsuccessful in drawing blood, so the new plan is to start the antibiotics and monitor him closely over the next month. I may or may not (depending on how he responds to the antibiotics and better managed heat) bring him back in about a week and a half to try for the blood draw again.

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Good news regarding septicemia. What did the vet say about the scale rot? I think that would be my next biggest concern.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Good news regarding septicemia. What did the vet say about the scale rot? I think that would be my next biggest concern.

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She said, if I remember correctly (not going to lie, my brain was quite scrambled all day yesterday and my focus was mostly invested in remembering how to do the injections), that its less scale rot and more that there are damaged scales that are healing individually. So continuing the chlorhexidine wash should help with that, along with everything else I will already be doing for the currently still unknown sickness.

I'm definitely going to be replacing his hide with the whole tank overhaul, because that's the main thing that could have caused scrapes I think, but I'm also gonna look over everything else in case there's a sharper than expected rock that might have caused it. Not that minor scrapes are a massive deal, but if I'm gonna be doing all of the overhauling anyway, I might as well.

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Originally Posted by Rai

She said, if I remember correctly (not going to lie, my brain was quite scrambled all day yesterday and my focus was mostly invested in remembering how to do the injections), that its less scale rot and more that there are damaged scales that are healing individually. So continuing the chlorhexidine wash should help with that, along with everything else I will already be doing for the currently still unknown sickness.

I'm definitely going to be replacing his hide with the whole tank overhaul, because that's the main thing that could have caused scrapes I think, but I'm also gonna look over everything else in case there's a sharper than expected rock that might have caused it. Not that minor scrapes are a massive deal, but if I'm gonna be doing all of the overhauling anyway, I might as well.

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I would strip your enclosure down to the basics: two hides, a water bowl and paper towel for substrate. While he recovers, a sanitary set up is the best thing. Your humidity level will no doubt drop, but, if you cover the screen top and add a humid hide, he should be fine. Fortunately, it shouldn't cost much. After he recovers, you can build it back up slowly. I'd go naturalistic this time rather than bioactive, as Malum suggests.

Well, Daisy had his last antibiotic injection today, and he looks infinitely better. After a couple of weeks of getting a shot every three days, he had the cleanest shed he's had in a long while now, and most all of the symptoms went away. I still kept him in the sanitary bin though, and at this point, he's pretty much the picture of good health!

Though I suppose we'll really see once I try to feed him in a couple of days. Since today was his last shot, I still need to wait a bit, but I figured I'd post the update now, lest I end up forgetting again (I meant to post an update a few weeks ago, but my memory is garbage now a days).

Thank you again to everyone for helping out!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...d71b641a112d&=

Hey, that's GREAT news! Thanks for the update, & I hope the feeding goes well too. A few days to de-stress first before offering food is a good idea. :gj:

Glad he's doing so much better!
I hope that eating goes well once you do try again. Sometimes that's the hardest next step, but good on you for not wanting to rush it.