Changing Prey

I've mentioned here before that I was underfeeding my BP before realizing his meals were too small.

He ate an adult mouse the first time I tried to feed him one with intent to switch him over to rats so he can work his way up in meal size as he gets older.

by sheer luck of timing, this happened to coincide with him shedding.
he didn't eat leading up to the shed (nothing unusual)
he shed roughly a week or so ago (don't remember exact day). looked like a good shed, mostly all in one piece with a very small piece at the tail that came off later.

over that week, I've made multiple attempts to feed him fuzzy rats.
he acted very interested. came in close smelled it, got into strike position, then casually just slithered away.

wasted 4 F/T fuzzy rats during this time.
last attempt was day before yesterday.

today, I still had a fuzzy mouse left over from previously, so figured I would see what he would do.
Wow! he attacked that thing with extreme prejudice. and wasted no time in eating it.

I know it could just be a timing coincidence and he may have eaten a rat today if I'd had one.
but I've also read that they can be stubborn when switching them between types of prey.

so my question is:
Are there any tips or tricks on best way to switch him to rats so he can get the larger prey he needs?
should I just buy more Frozen Rats (maybe try a pinkie) and try again on next feeding day?
or maybe try to find a local breeder where I can score a fresh killed rat?

One thing I can see that you goofed on was offering prey too soon (too often). You said (above) "...over that week, I've made multiple attempts to feed him fuzzy rats."

Actually, when a snake refuses food, wait at least 5-7 days before offering again- it just stresses them into refusing if you keep offering every day or couple days. Give them time to realize they're hungry...they won't starve. ;) It just works better & wastes a lot less food.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

Are there any tips or tricks on best way to switch him to rats so he can get the larger prey he needs?

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Reptilinks produced a series of videos demonstrating various techniques for switching feeders. The point was to help their customers switch to Reptilinks, but the techniques they teach are applicable for changing to any type of feeder. You can find the videos on their website (segments 3, 4 & 5).

update:
was unable to find any frozen fuzzy rats locally, so I picked up some adult mice instead.
found some better quality bags to thaw them in, so mouse was no longer "all wet" when it was ready.

and ole boy smacked him good!
didn't take nearly as long to eat this one as the original one from a few weeks back.

I have 1 more mouse that I'll feed him on next feeding before offering him a rat finally.



also I learned something about the sphagnum moss I have in his enclosure.
if he moves some of it to a point that it hangs over and into his water container, the moss will suck the bowl dry.
like overnight suck it dry.

I thought my dish was leaking.
Yesterday sometime was first time I ever noticed his dish being completely empty (I never even let it get close to empty before), so I topped it off.
This morning I noticed it was completely empty again, so I topped it off again.
Few hours later, bowl was below half full, and the moss and bark substrate in that corner was obviously very wet.

when I moved the moss and cleaned out the bark from his bowl , I noticed that moss was soaked and the wet part was slowly traveling away from the dish.

and now the dish is maintaining water like before.


lesson learned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

also I learned something about the sphagnum moss I have in his enclosure.
if he moves some of it to a point that it hangs over and into his water container, the moss will suck the bowl dry.
like overnight suck it dry.

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Funny, and interesting. I didn't know that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

...also I learned something about the sphagnum moss I have in his enclosure.
if he moves some of it to a point that it hangs over and into his water container, the moss will suck the bowl dry.
like overnight suck it dry.

I thought my dish was leaking.
Yesterday sometime was first time I ever noticed his dish being completely empty (I never even let it get close to empty before), so I topped it off.
This morning I noticed it was completely empty again, so I topped it off again.
Few hours later, bowl was below half full, and the moss and bark substrate in that corner was obviously very wet.

when I moved the moss and cleaned out the bark from his bowl , I noticed that moss was soaked and the wet part was slowly traveling away from the dish.

and now the dish is maintaining water like before.


lesson learned.

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:rofl: Oh the things we learn from keeping snakes! :rofl: TKS for sharing.

It’s not the worse thing if your BP is a mouser. You’ll just have to feed him more food or more often. There are also other foods you can try. Some BPs really like ASFs. Hamsters are another good option. I’ve had one or two snakes that were resistant to accepting new prey items. I would usually just wait them out and they’d eventually eat what was offered. My Bredl’s python would smash jumbo mice but doesn’t like rats. He would only eat a rat every 2-3 months if I didn’t offer anything else. I finally decided to just give him what he prefers even though they were a pretty small meal for him. I would give him two jumbo mice every few weeks, which is roughly equivalent to a small rat, and he would eat those consistently. I recently tried him with large hamsters and he’s been crushing those. They’re about the same size as a medium rat. All of my other snakes eat multiple prey types. I feed them a diverse diet of mice, rats, hamsters, chicks, and rabbits.

It's great when snakes will eat whatever's offered. Unfortunately, most BPs aren't that open-minded.

@ Nutriaitch: I meant to mention that one way to switch a snake over is once they're big enough to take 2 smaller items that roughly equal the size meal they've been eating, you first offer what they prefer as an appetizer...& that should be the smaller item, literally just an appetizer. Once a snake downs something they like, they're often more forgiving about the second item, & also try imparting some of the scent from the preferred food to the new one before offering. Most snakes are pretty pumped up about eating, so if you can sneak in the new prey for a second item (without feeding too big a meal), they often learn to like the new thing offered after the next meal or so.

That works for switching to f/t from live or fresh-killed (f/k) as well, not just different kinds of prey. There are some snakes that are very stubborn & won't accept it, but be patient, & most will.

Also, with f/t prey, you can use feeding tongs to slightly "pinch-damage" the rodents nose to release a little more scent- often that helps a snake recognize their prey, as when going from live to f/t.
Frozen rodents lose some of their aroma.

my BP ate his first rat today.

was an interesting thing to watch.
he crept up to it more slowly than normal. Actually "nosed" it a little.
then very slowly opened his mouth, grabbed it and slowly gave a very half hearted wrap (didn't even make a full loop around it).

then after a couple moments, wrapped it up more aggressively and gave it a proper squeeze.
ate it fairly quickly compared to last couple mice.


I'm guessing that maybe he wasn't 100% of the smell for him to grab it so reluctantly. but after he got the taste in his mouth, he knew what he wanted?

Yup, I agree. The different scent threw him off a little, but now he's got it. :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

I've mentioned here before that I was underfeeding my BP before realizing his meals were too small.

He ate an adult mouse the first time I tried to feed him one with intent to switch him over to rats so he can work his way up in meal size as he gets older.

by sheer luck of timing, this happened to coincide with him shedding.
he didn't eat leading up to the shed (nothing unusual)
he shed roughly a week or so ago (don't remember exact day). looked like a good shed, mostly all in one piece with a very small piece at the tail that came off later.

over that week, I've made multiple attempts to feed him fuzzy rats.
he acted very interested. came in close smelled it, got into strike position, then casually just slithered away.

wasted 4 F/T fuzzy rats during this time.
last attempt was day before yesterday.

today, I still had a fuzzy mouse left over from previously, so figured I would see what he would do.
Wow! he attacked that thing with extreme prejudice. and wasted no time in eating it.

I know it could just be a timing coincidence and he may have eaten a rat today if I'd had one.
but I've also read that they can be stubborn when switching them between types of prey.

so my question is:
Are there any tips or tricks on best way to switch him to rats so he can get the larger prey he needs?
should I just buy more Frozen Rats (maybe try a pinkie) and try again on next feeding day?
or maybe try to find a local breeder where I can score a fresh killed rat?

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I’ve always thought it was an obvious idea to mix their food up somewhat - in the wild they won’t be eating a medium sized rat at 7pm every Friday evening

Mine will eat rats, XL mice , chicks or just about anything as long as it’s heated up by a hairdryer !!

I think it actually shows how effective the hairdryer method is ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

the most recent rat was easily the most violent attack yet.

so I'm thinking he likes him some rat!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

the most recent rat was easily the most violent attack yet.

so I'm thinking he likes him some rat!

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That's one interpretation, & reasonable. But also, it might be instinctively knowing that rats pose a greater threat. Either way, if he likes rats, feed what works best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

the most recent rat was easily the most violent attack yet.

so I'm thinking he likes him some rat!

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Congratulations! I’m glad he took another rat for you. Hopefully he’ll eat more consistently for you now.

so due to being unable to acquire Frozen rats (of the proper size) for going on 3 weeks now, I was basically forced into feeding him a live mouse today.

not going to lie, it was impressive to watch. It's like he instinctively knew this one was different than the F/T that I'd been feeding him.
was much more of a "stalking" type approach. and the strike and squeeze wasn't as violent looking, but seemed much faster and tighter than the F/T kills were.

will giving him live that one time potentially cause any issues with going back to frozen on his next feeding?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

so due to being unable to acquire Frozen rats (of the proper size) for going on 3 weeks now, I was basically forced into feeding him a live mouse today.

not going to lie, it was impressive to watch. It's like he instinctively knew this one was different than the F/T that I'd been feeding him.
was much more of a "stalking" type approach. and the strike and squeeze wasn't as violent looking, but seemed much faster and tighter than the F/T kills were.

will giving him live that one time potentially cause any issues with going back to frozen on his next feeding?

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It could. Live prey triggers their instincts with a lot more scent than f/t prey has. It's generally best to avoid offering any live prey when what you want to feed is f/t.

And if you couldn't get frozen rats of the proper size, why not just feed two or 3 f/t mice?

Remember that when a snake is accustomed to taking f/t (or fresh killed prey), they're more likely to make a mistake when grabbing live prey & getting themselves bitten & injured by the prey.

Along with the increased likelihood of future refusals to eat, you also risk pain, suffering & scars for your pet, & vet bills for you, when you switch between f/t & live prey. But it's your call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

And if you couldn't get frozen rats of the proper size, why not just feed two or 3 f/t mice?

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the guy i normally get them from, his freezer crapped out, so he has no frozen available at all.
so i first went to petsmart. the smallest Frozen rodent they had was a medium rat (too large for my snake).
then i went to PetCo. They had Piinkie mice (no telling how many of those i would have to feed) and rats that they called medium, but were freaking enormous.

ao not knowing what else to do, or how long it would take to get what i wanted, i bought a live mouse for $6.
probably a hair smaller than the f/t rats i was feeding him, but i truly was at a loss for other options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

the guy i normally get them from, his freezer crapped out, so he has no frozen available at all.
so i first went to petsmart. the smallest Frozen rodent they had was a medium rat (too large for my snake).
then i went to PetCo. They had Piinkie mice (no telling how many of those i would have to feed) and rats that they called medium, but were freaking enormous.

ao not knowing what else to do, or how long it would take to get what i wanted, i bought a live mouse for $6.
probably a hair smaller than the f/t rats i was feeding him, but i truly was at a loss for other options.

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I'd have killed the mouse prior to offering it...just saying. When you can't buy f/t, it's up to us.

Having frozen rats shipped can be a good option. If you're feeding one a week, that's 25 to last 6 months. That many is $63.75 shipped from Big Cheese (my go-to company). That many live mice would be $150, at $6 each. I know which I would choose. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Having frozen rats shipped can be a good option. If you're feeding one a week, that's 25 to last 6 months. That many is $63.75 shipped from Big Cheese (my go-to company). That many live mice would be $150, at $6 each. I know which I would choose. :)

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that is an option I considered. but my snake is still young and growing. I haven't had him long enough to gauge his growth rate and wondering if he'll still be on the same size prey in 6 months?

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'd have killed the mouse prior to offering it...just saying. When you can't buy f/t, it's up to us.

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how do you kill them?

In reading through the thread, you say you have fed adult mice. That being the case, your guy should be able to take pups no problem. If he gets big enough to switch to weanlings, then you can finish up the pups by offering him multiple animals at a single feeding or feed him at shorter intervals like every 5 days instead of once a week until the pups are gone. I usually do not switch to weanlings until they are about 350 grams.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

In reading through the thread, you say you have fed adult mice. That being the case, your guy should be able to take pups no problem.

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the "adult" mice I've found have been similarly sized to the "fuzzy" rats I've found.

how much larger is a "pup" compared to a fuzzy?

note: snake is roughly 200g as of about a week ago.

At Big Cheese Rodent Factory they show the average size of rat pups is between 19 and 29 grams. They would be perfect for a 200 gram snake and they would have more fur, thus more scent, than a rat fuzzy. A pack of 25 is $40 plus $29 for shipping. I have used them for years and they have been very good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

At Big Cheese Rodent Factory they show the average size of rat pups is between 19 and 29 grams. They would be perfect for a 200 gram snake and they would have more fur, thus more scent, than a rat fuzzy. A pack of 25 is $40 plus $29 for shipping. I have used them for years and they have been very good.

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I'm going to weigh him again in a day or so (letting him finish digesting first) to confirm his weight since he went 3 weeks without a meal.

From there, I'll probably order some online somewhere.
there is another local guy here that breeds them live, but doesn't sell them frozen, and is only available on certain days due to his work schedule.

may have to get my 10 gallon tank out of mothballs and just keep one or two alive for a couple-few days or so, then kill it right before feeding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rlditmars

They would be perfect for a 200 gram snake

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so i think i need a new scale.

weighed him 3 times today.
132g
172g
158g

all 3 times he was pretty still and in a semi coil, so it wasn’t because of him moving.

so unless he had a 40g swing during the course of today (a 70g drop from about a week ago), my scale is junk :rofl:

Some scales don't like off-center loads. Bag or cup the snake securely before weighing, and make sure it is centered.

You may also try changing the batteries in your scale if you haven't in a while.

And make sure it's sitting level- maybe a corner pad underneath has come off, etc.

I will try again a few times today using y'all suggestions.
will update later with results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nutriaitch

I will try again a few times today using y'all suggestions.
will update later with results.

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put him in a big cup and tried again.
got 5 consecutive reading between 184g and 187g

so now i’m going to say that’s probably about where he is.

he looks healthy and growing.
but he was severely underfed by the pet store (and by me before i properly educated myself).
hopefully i didn’t stunt his growth too much and he can end up being as big as he can!

I wouldn't worry about his growth being stunted. Snakes in the wild usually have a far rougher time finding food, the right size & at the right time. And they get just as big eventually.