Ball Python Uses Small Hide. Is She Stupid?

My ball python seems to have recently outgrown her preferred hides, but continues to use both of them instead of the larger hides about 2 inches away from each. The larger hides have always been there and she typically enters one of them after handling, but she eventually moves back to a smaller hide.

Should I take away the small hides at some point to make her use the bigger ones? It's not evident from the picture, but the hide is significantly lifted from the ground. The cool side small hide is slightly bigger on the inside and she usually still fits without lifting it, so I think she might start avoiding the warm side altogether if I don't mess with the hides.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xXAqkRg4LUgmwIgjm-oEzFU3iwn1tb3O/view?usp=sharing
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...=w1908-h949-v0

I'm a proponent of offering a range of hides (sizes; materials; locations; moisture levels) and letting the snake choose which they prefer. The more options I give, the closer the snake will get to satisfying their preference. Also, I'll learn something about the snake based on what it prefers (which is how scientific research leads to knowledge about animal preferences, too). It may be interesting to swap the positions of those two hides to see if the snake changes its preferred spot; it may be that they're taking that hide for its position or temperature.

It isn't unusual for a snake to prefer a very tight hide, and I wouldn't take away anything unless it's causing or likely to cause harm.

I agree with Malum. If you post pics of the entire enclosure, I may have suggestions as to how you can set it up better.

I have the typical plastic hides, one hot side, one cool side. I also have three large hollow cork rounds my snake can/does use. They are longer than the boxes, but much narrower, and he uses all of his hides, but prefers one cork hide in particular that surprises me because I'd say he's full grown now, but slips into easily and spends most of his time there. From what Ive experienced reading on here, its mainly about snakes being able to feel secure in a spot that. is their favorite.

Snakes want to feel safe, & the familiar hide feels safer than a new one, even if new is a better fit.

BTW, is there an interior height difference between the old smaller hides & the new, larger ones? Yours would not be the first snakes to crave "back pressure" & wear their old hides (that are "too small" by our standards) like a turtle shell. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mistergreen

I also have three large hollow cork rounds my snake can/does use. They are longer than the boxes, but much narrower, and he uses all of his hides, but prefers one cork hide in particular that surprises me because I'd say he's full grown now, but slips into easily and spends most of his time there.

---

I find that many of my snakes use cork rounds out of all proportion to how comfortable they look like they'd feel in there. Part of this is certainly that it is a "natural" material (which herps seem to strongly prefer in general) but I wonder if the dimensions are somehow preferable too. Really useful things, those cork rounds. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I find that many of my snakes use cork rounds out of all proportion to how comfortable they look like they'd feel in there. Part of this is certainly that it is a "natural" material (which herps seem to strongly prefer in general) but I wonder if the dimensions are somehow preferable too. Really useful things, those cork rounds. :)

---

Maybe it's the fact that the surfaces aren't smooth like the typical plastic hides are? I'm still using many hides* I got a very long time ago- molded with semi-naturalistic texture to be more rock-like, but they're still fairly smooth inside when compared to natural materials. (*Not positive, but I think they came from Neodesha?)

Yeah, the texture is likely a big part of it. I sure hope that the fact that I bend over backwards to hunt up epic cork pieces plays into the snakes' usage too -- they might be showing appreciation for my efforts. :)

I have and use plastic hides from both Neodesha and Reptile Basics, and know what you're taking about but have not noticed any preference for the former. The Neodeshas are higher than the RBs, though, so that might weigh against their preferability.

Paper towel rolls are often a big hit for smaller snakes, and cardboard packing tubes (like those that florescent lamps get shipped in) for larger snakes. These are better for species that we keep on the dryer side, though, since they degrade once they get damp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

...

I have and use plastic hides from both Neodesha and Reptile Basics, and know what you're taking about but have not noticed any preference for the former. The Neodeshas are higher than the RBs, though, so that might weigh against their preferability.

Paper towel rolls are often a big hit for smaller snakes, and cardboard packing tubes (like those that florescent lamps get shipped in) for larger snakes. These are better for species that we keep on the dryer side, though, since they degrade once they get damp.

---

I've never tested them side by side to see if my snakes show any preference- I mostly use what fits the snake best. You're right that the Neodeshas are a little taller- but not much. The sides also angle more- I think it evens out.

Paper towel rolls are loved by small snakes- esp. hatchlings. :D I use my share of modified clean cardboard boxes (since I have a great source of them) to enrich their homes, even making them bi-level, etc. But I'm not keeping BPs- they might be more stressed by such changes.

A little mean to call them stupid. I think you should just read up more about BPs to understand why they do what they do.
BPs generally prefer smaller hides because they like the safer feeling of being able to squish in there without room to sneak up on them. Not every snake will... But a majority of them can be this way. Most likely a throwback to how they evolved living around termite mounds to hunt rodents.


I would try adding some moss or crumpled paper to the bigger hides. That way they feel more snug and enveloping.
I agree with what was mentioned above as well. You can try changing the placement to see if it's a location or a object preference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

I agree with Malum. If you post pics of the entire enclosure, I may have suggestions as to how you can set it up better.

---

Here are a couple of pictures of the whole enclosure. The snake actually did move into the bigger warm side hide last night, so it seems that she is indeed not stupid. If there are other ways to optimize the enclosure though, I'm happy to hear them.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...Q/IMG-2963.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...d/IMG-2961.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...w1920-h954-iv1
Ambient temp is 81-82 on warm side, 79-80 on cool side / very near walls. Surface temp is 77 on cool side, 88-89 on warm side at the plastic. I could turn the heat pad thermostat up another degree to hit 90 inside, but it seems to overshoot and get slightly too warm. The overhead lamp thing is a ceramic heat emitter.

Humidity can be a little tricky to stabilize since the enclosure's volume is small relative to the lid/substrate surface area, so it's easy to overshoot when mixing in water. It's pretty stable once it gets going though, and I might add a bit more substrate to help with this.

I'm sure others will have other comments, but: that style tub (lid) will not keep a snake in reliably. They can and will push their way out. Snakes are both not stupid and not weak, and they have lots of time to combine their cleverness and strength to make an escape. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I'm sure others will have other comments, but: that style tub (lid) will not keep a snake in reliably. They can and will push their way out. Snakes are both not stupid and not weak, and they have lots of time to combine their cleverness and strength to make an escape. ;)

---

Maybe with a number of binder clips holding the top to the bottom? Snake escapes are best prevented, for sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I'm sure others will have other comments, but: that style tub (lid) will not keep a snake in reliably. They can and will push their way out. Snakes are both not stupid and not weak, and they have lots of time to combine their cleverness and strength to make an escape. ;)

---

I have some extra clips to hold it shut, but stopped bothering with them because they're a pain to deal with and the snake hasn't seemed interested in escaping. I had kind of forgotten about this issue altogether. I'll add some extra latches when I get the chance, and try to use the clips in the meantime.

I've had snakes exploit enclosure shortcomings in the first day of my keeping them, and also after years in my care. They're not all that predictable. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I've had snakes exploit enclosure shortcomings in the first day of my keeping them, and also after years in my care. They're not all that predictable. :)

---

I was thinking the same thing, especially when the OP said

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

...I'll add some extra latches when I get the chance...

---

:rofl:

Security upgrade, the lid now hinges on the far side and has some bolts which must be pulled out on the near side:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...che=1712424640
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...5/img_2965.jpg

I didn't have the materials on hand to make proper latches, but the bolts are solid and should still be more convenient than clips. The leftmost one looks loose because I didn't line the holes up right, but it seems stable enough.

There's many ways to secure a snake enclosure/tank/tub...the main thing is to do it before the snake figures out how to get out. :gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

Security upgrade, the lid now hinges on the far side and has some bolts which must be pulled out on the near side:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...che=1712424640

---

Your set up seems adequate to me with the security upgrades. My first snake was an adult bp and I kept him in a very similar set up for about a year before he began pushing to get out. He managed to escape a couple times before I found spring clips that were secure enough. Unfortunately, that didn't stop him from pushing and he started to injure himself. I solved that issue by building him a larger enclosure.

So, I suggest you start planning for a larger enclosure. Your bp is a baby so you've got time. You'll know your snake has been pushing when you see swelling, usually on the lips or the top if the head. Even if your snake doesn't start pushing, a larger enclosure is worthwhile. With more space you can provide a healthier and much more enriching environment.

But that's down the road. What you have is perfectly adequate for now. Take this time to get to know her. The better you understand her, the better job you'll do when the time comes to upgrade.

P.S. What are you regulating the heat mat and ceramic heat emitter with?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homebody

Your set up seems adequate to me with the security upgrades. My first snake was an adult bp and I kept him in a very similar set up for about a year before he began pushing to get out. He managed to escape a couple times before I found spring clips that were secure enough. Unfortunately, that didn't stop him from pushing and he started to injure himself. I solved that issue by building him a larger enclosure.

So, I suggest you start planning for a larger enclosure. Your bp is a baby so you've got time. You'll know your snake has been pushing when you see swelling, usually on the lips or the top if the head. Even if your snake doesn't start pushing, a larger enclosure is worthwhile. With more space you can provide a healthier and much more enriching environment.

But that's down the road. What you have is perfectly adequate for now. Take this time to get to know her. The better you understand her, the better job you'll do when the time comes to upgrade.

P.S. What are you regulating the heat mat and ceramic heat emitter with?

---

I'll be ready to upgrade the enclosure when the time comes. In the meantime I want to replace the paper in this enclosure with better looking fake foliage, but I consider it low priority and haven't gotten around to it. I have a nearly unlimited supply of used notebook paper, so it's easier to just keep replacing that for now.

I'm regulating the CHE using a thermostat with a probe suction-cupped to the warm side short wall, and the heat mat using a thermostat with a probe between the mat and the bottom of the plastic. This setup seems to keep the temps within 1-2 degrees fahrenheit of target values when the room varies by 5 degrees either way. The ambient temps rise when the room temperature increases, so I hoped putting the CHE probe very close to the wall (which should have its temperature affected more by the room than the middle of the enclosure) would mitigate this, but I think putting the probe in a hide or something might also be effective.

My only issue with the heating is that the surface temp of the plastic beneath the hides is 88, but ticking the thermostat up a degree brings it to like 93. I figure 88 is fine even with some variance and preferable to potentially getting too warm by sitting around 93, but it annoys me that I can't bring it to 89 or 90. I have a spare thermostat, so I might try making some sort of "and" gate to improve it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

I'll be ready to upgrade the enclosure when the time comes. In the meantime I want to replace the paper in this enclosure with better looking fake foliage, but I consider it low priority and haven't gotten around to it. I have a nearly unlimited supply of used notebook paper, so it's easier to just keep replacing that for now.

I'm regulating the CHE using a thermostat with a probe suction-cupped to the warm side short wall, and the heat mat using a thermostat with a probe between the mat and the bottom of the plastic. This setup seems to keep the temps within 1-2 degrees fahrenheit of target values when the room varies by 5 degrees either way. The ambient temps rise when the room temperature increases, so I hoped putting the CHE probe very close to the wall (which should have its temperature affected more by the room than the middle of the enclosure) would mitigate this, but I think putting the probe in a hide or something might also be effective.

My only issue with the heating is that the surface temp of the plastic beneath the hides is 88, but ticking the thermostat up a degree brings it to like 93. I figure 88 is fine even with some variance and preferable to potentially getting too warm by sitting around 93, but it annoys me that I can't bring it to 89 or 90. I have a spare thermostat, so I might try making some sort of "and" gate to improve it.

---

I understand. Regulating temps in a sterlite tub is a constant struggle. That's one thing you can look forward to when you upgrade. Regulating temps in a pvc or plywood enclosure is much easier.

I wouldn't trust those suction cups to hold the probe in place, but I see you also have the probe wire duct taped in place and the probe wire's sandwiched between the side and the lid. So, that should be secure enough.

I wouldn't prioritize fake foliage either. Your snake doesn't care. The only difference is appearance and your enclosure isn't set up for visual appeal anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I'm a proponent of offering a range of hides (sizes; materials; locations; moisture levels) and letting the snake choose which they prefer. The more options I give, the closer the snake will get to satisfying their preference. Also, I'll learn something about the snake based on what it prefers (which is how scientific research leads to knowledge about animal preferences, too). It may be interesting to swap the positions of those two hides to see if the snake changes its preferred spot; it may be that they're taking that hide for its position or temperature.

It isn't unusual for a snake to prefer a very tight hide, and I wouldn't take away anything unless it's causing or likely to cause harm.

---

This ^^


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Couple of days after I moved, snake was out. She was more up against the wall than usual. I think this is still just her being hungry because she seemed interested when I showed up, but eventually fled back into a hide after I sat nearby to write this up. I don't see any damage to her head that would indicate actual pushing.

She's had a growth spurt recently and looks almost as long as the enclosure. I believe her weight is above 350 grams. I'll make sure she eats again a few days before I change anything (I anticipate no problems with that,) but I think she could handle a larger enclosure.

I'll be moving to a more permanent apartment in 4 weeks, so it'd be kind of convenient to keep the enclosure the same until then. For now I'll just change her substrate back to fiber. Will she be ready for a 4x2x2 enclosure in a month, or am I way jumping the gun here?


https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...4/IMG_3156.JPG

I have had ocassional issues upsizing snakes too soon (refusal to eat). In these situations, putting the snake back into the smaller enclosure for some more growing solved the problem. So, if you hang on to the current enclosure you can undo the change if that's the preference the snake indicates.

Given that there's basically no visual security in the current setup, I would not anticipate a problem with upsizing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I have had ocassional issues upsizing snakes too soon (refusal to eat). In these situations, putting the snake back into the smaller enclosure for some more growing solved the problem. So, if you hang on to the current enclosure you can undo the change if that's the preference the snake indicates.

Given that there's basically no visual security in the current setup, I would not anticipate a problem with upsizing.

---

Yeah, I don't think elevating the enclosure off the floor did good things for visual security. Putting real substrate back in should mitigate the effect of that though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

Yeah, I don't think elevating the enclosure off the floor did good things for visual security. Putting real substrate back in should mitigate the effect of that though.

---

Both probably true. The clear/translucent sides make a pretty big difference in some cases, too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I'm a proponent of offering a range of hides (sizes; materials; locations; moisture levels) and letting the snake choose which they prefer. The more options I give, the closer the snake will get to satisfying their preference. Also, I'll learn something about the snake based on what it prefers (which is how scientific research leads to knowledge about animal preferences, too). It may be interesting to swap the positions of those two hides to see if the snake changes its preferred spot; it may be that they're taking that hide for its position or temperature.

It isn't unusual for a snake to prefer a very tight hide, and I wouldn't take away anything unless it's causing or likely to cause harm.

---

I find this an intelligent and well thought out response.

No reptile is stupid they don't have many ways to communicate with us. They survive because of basic instincts and we are the ones that have to learn how to accommodate them.

Reptiles will gravitate to areas that support their basic needs.

If you provide several climate and hide options and the animal stays in one area only, that is a sign that something is working and other things may not be working.

I see my animals in a variety of areas within their cages. Typically after a meal they seek the warmer areas. That area could be a perch right under the RHP or on the floor under the RHP.

Studying one animal in a collection takes months and maybe even a year or two.

I notice movements and preferences within the cage based on various factors.

A shed may cause certain behavior. A meal changes things.

Security is another factor and it is something that could cause an animal to forego a heated area to digest in favor of not getting eaten (theoretically) by choosing a cooler secure area.

I have always provided the same type of hide on both sides of the cage until I can determine the patterns of the animals I keep.

Reading the animal is very important and knowing the cues they are giving us is critical.

I recommend studying and learning what their wild habits are and making decisions based on science, and what long time successful keepers have done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

I find this an intelligent and well thought out response.

No reptile is stupid they don't have many ways to communicate with us. They survive because of basic instincts and we are the ones that have to learn how to accommodate them.

Reptiles will gravitate to areas that support their basic needs.

If you provide several climate and hide options and the animal stays in one area only, that is a sign that something is working and other things may not be working.

I see my animals in a variety of areas within their cages. Typically after a meal they seek the warmer areas. That area could be a perch right under the RHP or on the floor under the RHP.

Studying one animal in a collection takes months and maybe even a year or two.

I notice movements and preferences within the cage based on various factors.

A shed may cause certain behavior. A meal changes things.

Security is another factor and it is something that could cause an animal to forego a heated area to digest in favor of not getting eaten (theoretically) by choosing a cooler secure area.

I have always provided the same type of hide on both sides of the cage until I can determine the patterns of the animals I keep.

Reading the animal is very important and knowing the cues they are giving us is critical.

I recommend studying and learning what their wild habits are and making decisions based on science, and what long time successful keepers have done.

---

I don't believe in science, but I'll do what Malum says.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

I don't believe in science.....

---

:confusd: Well, look around you. Almost everything you use is available because of science. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:confusd: Well, look around you. Almost everything you use is available because of science. ;)

---

Unfortunate for science, I have scammed it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

I don't believe in science, but I'll do what Malum says.

---

I've heard people claim this pretty often. It has never been true, though, since it is based on a very basic lack of understanding of just what science is.

Science is, at its core, measurement plus logic. Science involves collecting data about physical things, and applying reasoning to figure out what follows from that data. (It is often said that a core element of science is 'repeatability', which is true but that's mostly a re-confirmation of the data, and of the reasoning, to make sure that the results weren't accidental or contingent on some unknown variable.)

But everyone (more correctly, every human person who can operate in the world at at least a very basic level -- so not people in vegetative states, or full-on and complete dementia, but pretty much everyone else) believes in (i.e. uses and depends on, almost every second) logic, usually implicit but very very frequently explicit. Simply saying 'I don't...' is a move in logic (it is a negation). The statement above that I quoted is itself a conditional -- 'if this, then that' -- which is the primary operator of logic (logic itself is something like 'the science of what follows from what'). So, it can't be the logic part that isn't believed in, since that would make the above quote a self-referential paradox.

Everyone believes in (i.e. uses and depends on) measurement, too. Even walking down stairs involves measurement (doing it, and modifying one's behavior based on it), since if the foot goes a certain distance farther forward, there's broken bones in one's future, and everyone avoids broken bones at least much of the time.

But even professional scientists often have a fuzzy grasp of what science is, or at least ignore what science is fairly often. It isn't hard to find claims like 'science says that we should stop emitting so many greenhouse gases' or 'according to science, all that beer is bad for you'. But those are moral imperatives ('should') and evaluations ('bad'). Measurement and logic famously cannot by themselves get us to prescriptive statements (look up 'Hume's is/ought problem' for the history of this).

It seems that what people who think they don't believe in science (which is different than 'not believing in science'; the person whose belief it is does not have preferential access to that belief -- "actions speak louder than words" is the colloquial take on this fact) are opposed to are the ethical claims of scientists, or (similarly) of people who take the findings of science seriously enough that they have natural and expected moral feelings about those findings. But that's not 'not believing in science'; that's a moral dispute, one that if it is to be figured out needs to understand where the dispute actually lies. Because the dispute doesn't lie in science, since everyone who has been alive and functioning for the last ten minutes believes in science.

My minor field of PhD study was the philosophy of science, so I find this stuff all quite interesting. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

Unfortunate for science, I have scammed it.

---

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. I don't know what you mean by "I have scammed it"


"Science" in the context I'm referring to it here is very important.

Field studies about reptiles are funded in the name of science.

The reptile hobby we have today is better because of science.

The discovery of new species, their diets and mating habits are due to field studies. Those studies have improved the way we care for our animals.

Herpetology is the science of studying reptiles and amphibians. It is something you should believe in if you are going to keep any type of animal.

Over the years, I have searched for, read and often times posted links on this board to very interesting and informative science based field studies of various species of snakes.

Discounting science, if that is truly what you mean by your post, will be counterproductive to keeping your animal in good condition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I've heard people claim this pretty often. It has never been true, though, since it is based on a very basic lack of understanding of just what science is.

Science is, at its core, measurement plus logic. Science involves collecting data about physical things, and applying reasoning to figure out what follows from that data. (It is often said that a core element of science is 'repeatability', which is true but that's mostly a re-confirmation of the data, and of the reasoning, to make sure that the results weren't accidental or contingent on some unknown variable.)

But everyone (more correctly, every human person who can operate in the world at at least a very basic level -- so not people in vegetative states, or full-on and complete dementia, but pretty much everyone else) believes in (i.e. uses and depends on, almost every second) logic, usually implicit but very very frequently explicit. Simply saying 'I don't...' is a move in logic (it is a negation). The statement above that I quoted is itself a conditional -- 'if this, then that' -- which is the primary operator of logic (logic itself is something like 'the science of what follows from what'). So, it can't be the logic part that isn't believed in, since that would make the above quote a self-referential paradox.

Everyone believes in (i.e. uses and depends on) measurement, too. Even walking down stairs involves measurement (doing it, and modifying one's behavior based on it), since if the foot goes a certain distance farther forward, there's broken bones in one's future, and everyone avoids broken bones at least much of the time.

But even professional scientists often have a fuzzy grasp of what science is, or at least ignore what science is fairly often. It isn't hard to find claims like 'science says that we should stop emitting so many greenhouse gases' or 'according to science, all that beer is bad for you'. But those are moral imperatives ('should') and evaluations ('bad'). Measurement and logic famously cannot by themselves get us to prescriptive statements (look up 'Hume's is/ought problem' for the history of this).

It seems that what people who think they don't believe in science (which is different than 'not believing in science'; the person whose belief it is does not have preferential access to that belief -- "actions speak louder than words" is the colloquial take on this fact) are opposed to are the ethical claims of scientists, or (similarly) of people who take the findings of science seriously enough that they have natural and expected moral feelings about those findings. But that's not 'not believing in science'; that's a moral dispute, one that if it is to be figured out needs to understand where the dispute actually lies. Because the dispute doesn't lie in science, since everyone who has been alive and functioning for the last ten minutes believes in science.

My minor field of PhD study was the philosophy of science, so I find this stuff all quite interesting. :)

---

I have no reason to believe reality is real, or that any measurements are reflective of anything. These measurements are just models, and the model is an abstract concept, rather than something actually tied to physical existence. I often act as if models are accurate, but I do not believe they actually are. Insofar as science defines a model and says "look in this model things are this way," I could be said to believe it. That means nothing though, because I only believe it within the context of its own definitions.

Logic is the same thing. It's true within the context of its own definitions. Most people's model of reality seems to follow basic logical axioms, but I see no reason to believe that has anything to do with what's really going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gobuchul

I have no reason to believe reality is real, or that any measurements are reflective of anything. These measurements are just models, and the model is an abstract concept, rather than something actually tied to physical existence. I often act as if models are accurate, but I do not believe they actually are. Insofar as science defines a model and says "look in this model things are this way," I could be said to believe it. That means nothing though, because I only believe it within the context of its own definitions.

Logic is the same thing. It's true within the context of its own definitions. Most people's model of reality seems to follow basic logical axioms, but I see no reason to believe that has anything to do with what's really going on.

---

Oh, I understand. A completely non-realist conception isn't completely bonkers (though your outline of it above is, since it isn't fundamentally coherent). It is, though, not appropriate to trot out in a discussion about snake care (whereas the 'I don't believe in science' claim that the rest of us thought you were implying is appropriate, sort of). The reason it isn't appropriate is it doesn't link to anything we're talking about here (since whether or not the snake exists in metaphysical reality doesn't affect care recommendations one way or the other), and makes people who are trying to help waste time (like I apparently did in my lengthy post). If it doesn't matter at all, and undermines what others are doing here, then it isn't appropriate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Oh, I understand. A completely non-realist conception isn't completely bonkers (though your outline of it above is, since it isn't fundamentally coherent). It is, though, not appropriate to trot out in a discussion about snake care (whereas the 'I don't believe in science' claim that the rest of us thought you were implying is appropriate, sort of). The reason it isn't appropriate is it doesn't link to anything we're talking about here (since whether or not the snake exists in metaphysical reality doesn't affect care recommendations one way or the other), and makes people who are trying to help waste time (like I apparently did in my lengthy post). If it doesn't matter at all, and undermines what others are doing here, then it isn't appropriate.

---

Whether I believe in science or not doesn't affect care recommendations anyways. This is because I'll do what you say regardless of the source.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

I'm not sure I'm understanding your point. I don't know what you mean by "I have scammed it"


"Science" in the context I'm referring to it here is very important.

Field studies about reptiles are funded in the name of science.

The reptile hobby we have today is better because of science.

The discovery of new species, their diets and mating habits are due to field studies. Those studies have improved the way we care for our animals.

Herpetology is the science of studying reptiles and amphibians. It is something you should believe in if you are going to keep any type of animal.

Over the years, I have searched for, read and often times posted links on this board to very interesting and informative science based field studies of various species of snakes.

Discounting science, if that is truly what you mean by your post, will be counterproductive to keeping your animal in good condition.

---

When I say I've scammed it, I mean I reap the benefits without believing in it.

Enclosure improvement, I have blacked out the sides with duct tape. I intended to use paint at one point to be able to go higher over the holes, but decided I wasn't going to get around to it.

There was a bit too much moisture in the substrate that I added, so I've been trying to let it air out a bit. The room is about 77F and the enclosure probes still read 80, so I figure I can do that without failing temps.

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...m/IMG_3160.JPG