Another new dad worry post; first BP

So I've been looking around the forum before posting in hopes it'd ease some of my anxiety since getting my new girl almost two weeks ago. But I'm finding I'm still unsure about some stuff and I'd feel better just asking directly, especially since at this rate I feel I've bugged the breeder I bought from a enough and don't want to overload her with questions/thoughts that come from anxiety.

So details first - I got a perfectly healthy, recently fed (at the time of purchase) piebald female who is about 6 months. I don't have the exact weight atm, but she was just around 100g if not a bit less when I get her. She was fed and finished shedding a not long before I picked her up.

She is being kept in a 19L plastic tub I fitted with holes, and it's got two hides, plenty of foliage and a tree branch I cured in the oven before getting her, plus a water dish. The hides themselves are somewhat transparent, so I put cardboard along the outside of the enclosure to help her feel less exposed. I keep her enclosure in a spot I wouldn't call high traffic necessarily, but I also have been checking in on her a lot.

I'm using a heat mat and it's on a thermostat (though it's a pulse thermostat and I already bought a proportional one that should arrive tomorrow). I've been struggling with the current set up to keep temps consistent, feel like I've been battling to keep her warm spot set correctly, but have been managing to get it at the right temps more or less with tweaking but I also don't want to keep disturbing her before her first meal. Humidity has mostly been fine other than a couple times she splashed water everywhere and caused huge spikes. When this happened, I felt compelled to change out her paper towels and dry her stuff off because I was worried the temps weren't right to help mitigate possible bacteria build up

So here's my anxieties -

I tried feeding her Sunday night (she's on live feed) and she wouldn't even come out of her hide. Maybe I did it too early in the evening, so I'm going to try again tomorrow. She never really even see the mouse, only shifted in her hide a little bit. No idea if she even smelled it. And I'm going to do my best to just leave her alone completely all day today and tomorrow before trying to feed.

But I'm worried that because I've been fiddling with her environment so much between getting temps right, removing moisture, and even trying out a new hide last night that wasn't see through, that she's not going to eat.

Another two behaviors I want to point it - The first week or so she spent most of her time in the hides which is great. Now she's spending very little time in them, and will either hang out on top of them or just on the floor. She didn't take to the new hides i added yesterday so I'm trying one of each, the new hide on the warm side and the old hide on the cool side.

At night, but also yesterday in the afternoon, she spends her time exploring and scooting around, but also spends a fair amount of time pointing up to the ceiling and investigating. I don't think she's really pushing, but I do wonder if she's trying to get out because it's not comfy. She doesn't do this ALL the time though, mostly only at night and yesterday intermittently throughout the day.

This morning she's not in any hides and just hanging out sprawled on the floor and over some foliage.

I guess this is in part a vent post, and I hope it's okay that my first post is like this. I'd love any tips or reassurance if possible, and happy to provide any and all info about her set up and the last week and a half of keeping her. I love her very much, and only hope to give her the best life.

Please post pics of your set up. This thread will show you how: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures. In addition, what are the warm and cool side temperatures? Aside from the spikes, what's the level of her humidity? The more info we have the better the advice we'll give.

I suggest holding off on feeding at least until Sunday. Repeated attempts to feed a snake that doesn't want to eat will stress your snake and make her less likely to feed. Between now and then, you'll want to get the temps and humidity dialed in. She'll feel much better eating if her temps and humidity are correct.

I understand your anxiety. Been there. This is the worst part. I assure you, once you've got everything in the enclosure properly set up, it's pretty much easy sailing.

When did you bring this snake home? And when did she last eat? (date) For best results, no handling until after she's eating reliably (at least 3 times for you, without refusals unless in blue).

If she's been with you less than a week, it's too soon to feed her- snakes need time to settle in- new homes are scary, snakes don't understand where their familiar world disappeared to.
Waiting a week (or two, even) is fine before feeding a new snake.

Also, don't keep offering a stressed snake food. When they refuse, wait a week before offering again. Be patient!

IMPORTANT: BPs don't usually come out of their hides to eat. They're ambush predators & they like to eat after dark, by grabbing prey that just happens to walk by near where they're hiding. When hungry, they're often peeking out of their hide in the evening- they prefer dim lights & minimal activity on your part or nearby- try to blend in when you watch.

Feed a new snake the same as they were raised eating: live, if fed live, or pre-killed fresh or f/t (frozen thawed-) if they were raised on that; & feed rats or mice, the same as before, & try to get the same size for at least the first 3 feedings for best results. We can help you with tips to get her on f/t a bit later, when the time is right.

When snakes are "looking up", it's often because they're sniffing the fresh air coming in thru screen or vents. Try to relax- snakes need time to settle into new places.

What exactly is she eating? (big difference between rats or mice with eyes open or closed)

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Please post pics of your set up. This thread will show you how: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures. In addition, what are the warm and cool side temperatures? Aside from the spikes, what's the level of her humidity? The more info we have the better the advice we'll give.

I suggest holding off on feeding at least until Sunday. Repeated attempts to feed a snake that doesn't want to eat will stress your snake and make her less likely to feed. Between now and then, you'll want to get the temps and humidity dialed in. She'll feel much better eating if her temps and humidity are correct.

I understand your anxiety. Been there. This is the worst part. I assure you, once you've got everything in the enclosure properly set up, it's pretty much easy sailing.

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Below is a photo of her set up. It's pretty snug, and when she's fully stretched out meets the rule of thumb I've read about. I have a 20gal on standby that I'm working to get all cluttered and cozy for when I'm ready to move her over. My thinking is to make it dense for her to feel safe despite it's size. And like I said, I put cardboard on all four sides to add a sense of security when in hide or skulking the floor.

But for now, this is her home. The black hide she's currently in is on the hot side, connected to an inkbird pulse themostat (soon to be replaced by a vivarium ve-200 proportional thermostat). A note - The thermometer is taped to the heat pad itself under the tank, it's not glued inside the tank.

The hide on the cool side is one of two of the same hide, I just replaced one with the black hide to see how she'd like it. I have one for the cool side, but it's a little bit shorter so I can keep the branch in there for now, however I decided to keep the transparent one in there for now since it's familiar from the last week and half.

Temps read about right to me, her hide is coming in between 87-90, and tapers to about 75 at the coolest end. This has taken some real trial and error to get, but I think for now it's fine. I just don't know if these temps are staying consistent always because of the pulse thermostat.

The thermometer/hygrometer was reading 73 ambient (it's not directly on the ground so I'm guessing it's reading the air) and humidity 68. I seem to be able to keep the humidity between 60 on the low end and 73 on the high end, save for when she spilled water everywhere :rolleyes: Otherwise the only other spike I saw was when she pooped several days back. I've cleaned up the poop since.

Lastly, I got her on February 17th. She was fed on February 13th by the breeder. And I can't find the date of her last shed but it was before I got her, I think before she was fed on the 13th.

(Oh one othere note - some of the foliage I've moved around or she's redecorated as well. There's some fake plants on the side that she decided look better there for now lol)
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._185520844.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

When did you bring this snake home? And when did she last eat? (date) For best results, no handling until after she's eating reliably (at least 3 times for you, without refusals unless in blue).

If she's been with you less than a week, it's too soon to feed her- snakes need time to settle in- new homes are scary, snakes don't understand where their familiar world disappeared to.
Waiting a week (or two, even) is fine before feeding a new snake.

Also, don't keep offering a stressed snake food. When they refuse, wait a week before offering again. Be patient!

IMPORTANT: BPs don't usually come out of their hides to eat. They're ambush predators & they like to eat after dark, by grabbing prey that just happens to walk by near where they're hiding. When hungry, they're often peeking out of their hide in the evening- they prefer dim lights & minimal activity on your part or nearby- try to blend in when you watch.

Feed a new snake the same as they were raised eating: live, if fed live, or pre-killed fresh or f/t (frozen thawed-) if they were raised on that; & feed rats or mice, the same as before, & try to get the same size for at least the first 3 feedings for best results. We can help you with tips to get her on f/t a bit later, when the time is right.

When snakes are "looking up", it's often because they're sniffing the fresh air coming in thru screen or vents. Try to relax- snakes need time to settle into new places.

What exactly is she eating? (big difference between rats or mice with eyes open or closed)

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Oh and I forgot to answer this so I'll just do it in a separate post if that's okay -

She's been eating mice currently. And I offered her a mouse the other day.

I mentioned to the breeder that she didn't take and was told to try 3 days later by her, I assumed given how much time there will have now been between last feeding and this upcoming one.

And for fun, here's a photo of my girl.
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil..._040629503.jpg

That black thing doesn't qualify as a hide- it's way too open. You want something like this (below) with a lower ceiling, & only one door that is slightly bigger than the snake's body.

https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes https://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box You want a hide that's a little bigger than the snake's coiled body, but if you get one that's much larger, you can also make it "cozier" for them by crumpling up some paper to wad into one end- & so you don't need to buy new hides constantly while your snake's grow.

These (from Reptile Basics) work great & come in many sizes, but similar ones are available by other brands too, or for the time being, even cardboard boxes of the right size & a doorway cut can work just fine, though when they get dirty, you obviously cannot clean cardboard, so they're disposable rather than washable. ;)

Hides are very important for a snake's sense of security. Get this right before you try feeding again, okay?

What size mouse??? Eyes open or closed? It matters because mice (or rats) with eyes open DO BITE BACK in self-defense, & should only be offered with close supervision. Even then, if it's a hopper with eyes open for longer than a day, they can hurt your snake faster than you can intervene, so just be aware & make sure your snake is really ready to eat (ready to make a kill) before putting in an active hopper mouse.

And from the age & size of your snake, I'd assume it's on hopper mice- most hatchling BPs are big enough to take hoppers so many are started on them. FYI, never leave them in with your snake overnight, if your snake doesn't take it while you're watching, take the mouse out before you leave or sleep, etc.

(Hoppers are weaned, eating on their own, very active, eyes open, about half the size of mature adult mice.)

Another thing to consider (for helping a new snake relax & feel "at home") is to make their new home very similar to how they were kept by the breeder. If you didn't see that in person, you can always ask. Many new owners understandably want to provide space that a new snake just isn't ready for. Many breeders use racks with more privacy, & not a lot of space or furnishings. At this point though, while it would help to ask & to know, you don't want to keep making changes with this new snake already home with you- the time to make changes would have been prior to bringing her home. For now, it would help to know, so you understand why she's not wanting to eat yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That black thing doesn't qualify as a hide- it's way too open. You want something like this (below) with a lower ceiling, & only one door that is slightly bigger than the snake's body.

https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes https://www.reptilebasics.com/medium-hide-box You want a hide that's a little bigger than the snake's coiled body, but if you get one that's much larger, you can also make it "cozier" for them by crumpling up some paper to wad into one end- & so you don't need to buy new hides constantly while your snake's grow.

These (from Reptile Basics) work great & come in many sizes, but similar ones are available by other brands too, or for the time being, even cardboard boxes of the right size & a doorway cut can work just fine, though when they get dirty, you obviously cannot clean cardboard, so they're disposable rather than washable. ;)

Hides are very important for a snake's sense of security. Get this right before you try feeding again, okay?

What size mouse??? Eyes open or closed? It matters because mice (or rats) with eyes open DO BITE BACK in self-defense, & should only be offered with close supervision. Even then, if it's a hopper with eyes open for longer than a day, they can hurt your snake faster than you can intervene, so just be aware & make sure your snake is really ready to eat (ready to make a kill) before putting in an active hopper mouse.

And from the age & size of your snake, I'd assume it's on hopper mice- most hatchling BPs are big enough to take hoppers so many are started on them. FYI, never leave them in with your snake overnight, if your snake doesn't take it while you're watching, take the mouse out before you leave or sleep, etc.

(Hoppers are weaned, eating on their own, very active, eyes open, about half the size of mature adult mice.)

Another thing to consider (for helping a new snake relax & feel "at home") is to make their new home very similar to how they were kept by the breeder. If you didn't see that in person, you can always ask. Many new owners understandably want to provide space that a new snake just isn't ready for. Many breeders use racks with more privacy, & not a lot of space or furnishings. At this point though, while it would help to ask & to know, you don't want to keep making changes with this new snake already home with you- the time to make changes would have been prior to bringing her home. For now, it would help to know, so you understand why she's not wanting to eat yet.

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I appreciate all of this info. My breeder didn't really say much about the hides I made previously other than covering the enclosure with cardboard to mitigate that they were see through.

But I'll order these ones right away for now, it appears the small sized ones are about the same as what I have now but with the proper design. I have some bigger ones I had made that have a more proper doorway and are larger with a low ceiling, but they won't fit inside the enclosure without taking up most of the space and leave no room for a water bowl.

I'll come back and respond to the food related stuff in just a bit. About to head out the door to go walk my partners dog and run errands. I appreciate you greatly.

EDIT - Sorry one quick question before I go - Do you still feel like she'll be okay without a meal between now and when these arrive in the mail? I imagine they'll get here soon since I ordered my new thermostat from the same place and it's saying it'll get here tomorrow. I just don't want to starve her. She doesn't look malnourished to me or anything but still.

Honestly, a good hide on the cooler side* & a good hide on the warmer side*, with a water bowl in the middle, & maybe some "leafy cover" like you already have around it is pretty much all you need. The hides have to feel secure though, to a snake- like the ones shown above. They don't go for what humans put in "House Beautiful" magazine- they don't want wide dramatic doorways or high ceilings. :D

(*I hope you have the temperatures correctly adjusted? You want about 77* F. on the cool side & 88-89* F. on the warmer side. And be sure you're measuring the temperature of the floor, with no more than 1/2" of substrate if​ you're using UTH to heat-??? Understand that a snake that's not warm enough- in their opinion- is likely to refuse food- so temperatures are supremely important.)

Btw, UTH = under tank heat

And covering the sides for privacy is a good idea too- this snake was likely housed in a rack previously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spiralout_keepgoing

Sorry one quick question before I go - Do you still feel like she'll be okay without a meal between now and when these arrive in the mail? I imagine they'll get here soon since I ordered my new thermostat from the same place and it's saying it'll get here tomorrow. I just don't want to starve her. She doesn't look malnourished to me or anything but still.

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Starving a snake is like freezing a penguin. It's possible, but it ain't easy. So, focus on getting her enclosure properly set up. Then, leave her alone for a bit. Then, feed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spiralout_keepgoing

I appreciate all of this info. My breeder didn't really say much about the hides I made previously other than covering the enclosure with cardboard to mitigate that they were see through.

But I'll order these ones right away for now, it appears the small sized ones are about the same as what I have now but with the proper design. I have some bigger ones I had made that have a more proper doorway and are larger with a low ceiling, but they won't fit inside the enclosure without taking up most of the space and leave no room for a water bowl.

I'll come back and respond to the food related stuff in just a bit. About to head out the door to go walk my partners dog and run errands. I appreciate you greatly.

EDIT - Sorry one quick question before I go - Do you still feel like she'll be okay without a meal between now and when these arrive in the mail? I imagine they'll get here soon since I ordered my new thermostat from the same place and it's saying it'll get here tomorrow. I just don't want to starve her. She doesn't look malnourished to me or anything but still.

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I would guess that the breeder didn't even use hides, just had them in a small rack (privacy from the surrounding sides of the rack).

Before you order, measure roughly the size of this coiled snake & add some space- you can always pad a hide that's a little too big- just something that will work for a while. BPs are snakes that often like "back pressure"- so they know predators can't sneak up on them- they feel safe.

Yes, she's FINE without a meal for now- she just refused a meal & she's still not settled in. See my previous post. And whenever a snake refuses a meal, always wait about a week before offering again, because constantly offering food just stresses them into refusing longer. :snake: Snakes are not designed to eat all the time- fasting is what they do for survival, & they're good at it.

Aha, gotcha both. That makes sense. I was only concerned about how long it's been, since it'll be nearly three weeks since she last ate if all goes afford to plan. And I believe that's correct yes, she was in a rack from what the breeders messages show.

That all makes sense to me. As far as temp dispersement with her UTH, yeah the gradient is good as mentioned. High 80s to 90 (it'll be more precise in a day or two with the new thermostat). I feel a lot better about that end of things.

Small hide measurements looked good to me from what I'm seeing. They are just slightly bigger than the black plastic tupperware you see in the photo.

As for food, she was being fed mice but not sure about eyes open or closed. The one I tried with was closed.

Truth be told, I want to move her to frozen thawed but may end up doing live for this first feeding. I'm not feeling super confident about switching her while also getting her cozy for her first meal with me.

Idk though I'm torn.

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Originally Posted by spiralout_keepgoing

Aha, gotcha both. That makes sense. I was only concerned about how long it's been, since it'll be nearly three weeks since she last ate if all goes afford to plan. And I believe that's correct yes, she was in a rack from what the breeders messages show.

That all makes sense to me. As far as temp dispersement with her UTH, yeah the gradient is good as mentioned. High 80s to 90 (it'll be more precise in a day or two with the new thermostat). I feel a lot better about that end of things.

Small hide measurements looked good to me from what I'm seeing. They are just slightly bigger than the black plastic tupperware you see in the photo.

As for food, she was being fed mice but not sure about eyes open or closed. The one I tried with was closed.

Truth be told, I want to move her to frozen thawed but may end up doing live for this first feeding. I'm not feeling super confident about switching her while also getting her cozy for her first meal with me.

Idk though I'm torn.

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I'm very much in favor of feeding f/t or fresh/killed (ie. dead prey) for safety (sooner or later, snakes get injured, sometimes badly, when rodents squirm & twist enough to get in a bite) but I've bred & raised many snakes, & I usually feed live to start off, just to make sure their instincts kick in properly. After several meals, they generalize better- they recognize the scent & they're hungry & used to eating in their new home, so they're more determined to eat. I would NOT try to switch to f/t prey yet- for best results, you want to feed your snake food that it recognizes for a few feedings- she's already stressed enough with a new home. Time to "settle in" (time for the snake to feel safe in new surroundings) is more important than you might think.

There is NO danger feeding live rodents (mice or rats) as long as their eyes are closed- they do not fight back at all. But, "fuzzy mice" as they're called, are too small to be a real meal- at least if you're only feeding one. (The equivalent to a hopper would be at least 4 or 5 fuzzies. Btw, I've also raised rodents for decades to supply all my snakes.) What was the breeder feeding her?

When it comes to feeding f/t, the trick with BPs is that the dead rodent MUST be warm enough- & rodents have a high metabolism. ;) So once you thaw* a frozen rodent in cool water (*check to make sure it's thawed by feeling the rodent mid-body by hand- it should all be soft, not frozen), then you want to soak them for about 5 minutes in very warm (not hot) water to warm them up, then blot off the water on a paper towel. They do cool off fast, so either offer immediately, or what many have the best results with is using a blow dryer- especially on the rodent's head to really heat them up right before offering. (No fancy hairstyling needed. :rofl:) Obviously, you only want to do this when you can see first that your snake is 'looking for prey'.

If you don't have feeding tongs, you need them- otherwise your nice warm hand has a bigger heat signature than the little mouse you're waving around...guess which one your BP will likely chomp on? :D I prefer large (12") tweezers, but you can also use blunt-ended BBQ kitchen tongs to feed snakes too. Just don't get in their way, haha.

Now what I'd do with this snake to feed: if she's taking live fuzzy mice, I wouldn't try to feed her from the tongs. I also don't like to leave young rodents crawling around in a snake's home, because they sometimes get lost in the substrate, or the snake gets a mouthful of substrate instead of the rodent when they try to catch it.

A good trick with BPs (it helps them feel braver, like they have the "upper hand") is to put the live fuzzy(s) in a shallow flat bottomed bowl that's deep enough so they can't escape (about 2.5 - 3") and heavy enough so the snake leaning on the side won't tip the bowl. In this way, the snake can see, study, & strike the fuzzy in their own good time, in the dark of night (you don't have to stay up) & they feel safely out of reach of their prey too- snakes aren't always as brave or confident as you might think. They have to learn, just like all youngsters, & they get better quickly with practice.

BTW, that's a beautiful BP you've got there. :love:

And- I almost forgot- :welcome: Snakes get much easier to figure out when you've kept them for a while- they're not like other pets, plus, they can have their own personality quirks too.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm very much in favor of feeding f/t or fresh/killed (ie. dead prey) for safety (sooner or later, snakes get injured, sometimes badly, when rodents squirm & twist enough to get in a bite) but I've bred & raised many snakes, & I usually feed live to start off, just to make sure their instincts kick in properly. After several meals, they generalize better- they recognize the scent & they're hungry & used to eating in their new home, so they're more determined to eat. I would NOT try to switch to f/t prey yet- for best results, you want to feed your snake food that it recognizes for a few feedings- she's already stressed enough with a new home. Time to "settle in" (time for the snake to feel safe in new surroundings) is more important than you might think.

There is NO danger feeding live rodents (mice or rats) as long as their eyes are closed- they do not fight back at all. But, "fuzzy mice" as they're called, are too small to be a real meal- at least if you're only feeding one. (The equivalent to a hopper would be at least 4 or 5 fuzzies. Btw, I've also raised rodents for decades to supply all my snakes.) What was the breeder feeding her?

When it comes to feeding f/t, the trick with BPs is that the dead rodent MUST be warm enough- & rodents have a high metabolism. ;) So once you thaw* a frozen rodent in cool water (*check to make sure it's thawed by feeling the rodent mid-body by hand- it should all be soft, not frozen), then you want to soak them for about 5 minutes in very warm (not hot) water to warm them up, then blot off the water on a paper towel. They do cool off fast, so either offer immediately, or what many have the best results with is using a blow dryer- especially on the rodent's head to really heat them up right before offering. (No fancy hairstyling needed. :rofl:) Obviously, you only want to do this when you can see first that your snake is 'looking for prey'.

If you don't have feeding tongs, you need them- otherwise your nice warm hand has a bigger heat signature than the little mouse you're waving around...guess which one your BP will likely chomp on? :D I prefer large (12") tweezers, but you can also use blunt-ended BBQ kitchen tongs to feed snakes too. Just don't get in their way, haha.

Now what I'd do with this snake to feed: if she's taking live fuzzy mice, I wouldn't try to feed her from the tongs. I also don't like to leave young rodents crawling around in a snake's home, because they sometimes get lost in the substrate, or the snake gets a mouthful of substrate instead of the rodent when they try to catch it.

A good trick with BPs (it helps them feel braver, like they have the "upper hand") is to put the live fuzzy(s) in a shallow flat bottomed bowl that's deep enough so they can't escape (about 2.5 - 3") and heavy enough so the snake leaning on the side won't tip the bowl. In this way, the snake can see, study, & strike the fuzzy in their own good time, in the dark of night (you don't have to stay up) & they feel safely out of reach of their prey too- snakes aren't always as brave or confident as you might think. They have to learn, just like all youngsters, & they get better quickly with practice.

BTW, that's a beautiful BP you've got there. :love:

And- I almost forgot- :welcome: Snakes get much easier to figure out when you've kept them for a while- they're not like other pets, plus, they can have their own personality quirks too.

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Why thank you! :D I'm glad to join the community and get myself educated! Considering I want this girl to live a long and happy life alongside me, I'm really glad I reached out and started my research.

Noted on all the feedings notes. Yeah I think starting her on live for her first couple of meals is a wise choice, given everything is so new here for her. I do have 12" tweezers, I bought two specifically for this exact purpose.

I don't know exactly what she was fed, but I do know I had brought home a fuzzy. I'll be looking to get something a bit more substantial hopefully early next week then. For now, I'm just gonna keep her on paper towels for now (still within the first 30 days anyway, and thankfully no mites or other crawlers) so the substrate element shouldn't be an issue.

And again, thank you. This eases SO MUCH of my anxiety about all of this. I've only ever kept a corn snake back in my 20s and I didn't exactly do a good job for the lil guy, so it hits a little extra hard when I think I'm messing things up for her.

But with all this info, she's gonna be one happy snake in due time.

We were all new to snake-keeping at one time or another. I wish there'd been a forum like this when I first got into snakes, & we're just here to help make it easier, if we can.

BTW, I'm glad you're keeping her on paper towels for a while, to make sure there's no mites.

As far as finding live prey that's more substantial than a fuzzy mouse, the sizes basically go from pinky (way too small- first food for corn snakes), to fuzzy (slight hair, still nursing, eyes closed) to hoppers (eyes open, weaned or nearly so, eating solid food & very active) to adult mice. It would be really nice to know if your snake has taken hoppers before- if you can call or text the breeder, I would certainly ask.

If not, you'll have to decide if you want to risk offering a hopper, or try a "crawler" rat? That's like a fuzzy, eyes closed & harmless, but much bigger than mouse fuzzy, & about as filling "meal-wise" as a hopper mouse. The "risk" is not from the crawler rat itself, but from the fact that rats & mice smell & taste very different to snakes- some snakes like one or the other, but not both. BPs especially tend to be fussy eaters :rolleyes: but yours may not be? Some snakes will happily take either one, but some snakes will fixate & only want rats from then on- no way to know. Yours might even show fear & refuse a baby rat. Yes, really. No way to know until you try. The other thing is that rats with eyes open are far more formidable to snakes than mice are, so you really need to be committed to getting your BP on f/t or p/k prey. Rats are much smarter, bigger & bite harder- larger rats can kill snakes that aren't good at dealing with them. (Rats also make great pets, whereas mice really don't.)

I don't know what area you live in, but also think about making sure you have a steady supply of whatever live prey you're using- some places, people can't get them at all, or it's very hard (or expensive). That's a huge advantage to f/t prey- having a supply in your freezer- instead of dealing with a local pet store if they don't have a lot of business with live feeders; you need the right size for your snake & suppliers can be very sporadic. That's a big reason I got into breeding my own rodents- then ended up supplying others, including pet stores. But I had many snakes- you don't want to raise rodents for one or 2 snakes, trust me. :D

Thankfully I live in a good spot it seems like, western Washington seems to have plenty of good options.

So, an update as I attempt to not to over think things - The hides I ordered finally shipped, but won't be here until next Thursday (the 7th). I was hoping it'd be sooner given that my thermostat from the same site arrived within two days of shipping, meaning I was also hoping to feed her by this weekend or by Monday at the latest.

Now it looks like if I wait, I won't be feeding her until next weekend. It sounds like that isn't a huge difference but it has me anxious, because I also hope she isn't losing weight in this time.

So my two options are either wait for those hides, or use the left over black plastic tupperware I still have, and this time don't cut them shorter but instead just put proper sized entrances and filled them some kind of filler to make them more snug.

To note, she has taken to the improper black hide shown in the previous picture pretty well for now, though I definitely understand how the big opening would make her feel less secure in the long run.

I think you can 'make-shift' the hide situation for now & go ahead & feed if you want, though waiting would not likely be any big deal either- snakes in the wild usually eat FAR less than we feed our pets.

You can modify what you have, or maybe add something in front of & over that "open" hide to afford more privacy, or cut some cardboard boxes to be better hides for the time being, though it might take more time for her to really feel comfortable in them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I think you can 'make-shift' the hide situation for now & go ahead & feed if you want, though waiting would not likely be any big deal either- snakes in the wild usually eat FAR less than we feed our pets.

You can modify what you have, or maybe add something in front of & over that "open" hide to afford more privacy, or cut some cardboard boxes to be better hides for the time being, though it might take more time for her to really feel comfortable in them anyway.

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That's a fair point. I'm going to sit on it this morning and afternoon and see how I feel later instead of making any specific choice for now. I think I've just internalized the 7-10 day schedule to the point where I feel like I'm doing something wrong if I wait any longer, so it's a good test to let some anxiety go haha. I do have plenty of foliage I could fasten along the sides and top of the current make shift hide.

By the way, I heard back from the breeder and she said Ophelia (what I named her) was eating medium sized adult mice. I guess I'm kind of surprised, I assumed with her size she could only take hopper size. Snakes are wild :snake:

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Originally Posted by spiralout_keepgoing

That's a fair point. I'm going to sit on it this morning and afternoon and see how I feel later instead of making any specific choice for now. I think I've just internalized the 7-10 day schedule to the point where I feel like I'm doing something wrong if I wait any longer, so it's a good test to let some anxiety go haha. I do have plenty of foliage I could fasten along the sides and top of the current make shift hide.

By the way, I heard back from the breeder and she said Ophelia (what I named her) was eating medium sized adult mice. I guess I'm kind of surprised, I assumed with her size she could only take hopper size. Snakes are wild :snake:

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That's great that you found out for sure what she was fed previously. As I said before, it's best to offer a new snake the same (or roughly the same) as what they ate before. I would tend to go with "slightly smaller than previously fed", in this case a hopper- ie. just weaned- mice- only because a new snake is a little less confident in a new home.

I wouldn't make major changes right now (in her home), but just some privacy tweaks if possible. I wouldn't droop any foliage over the front of that "hide" though, assuming your snake will be in there waiting to grab the prey, since the foliage could get in the way & cause an epic fail. ;)

Like the name Ophelia, btw- :D The more you know about snakes, the more fascinating they become. And "addicting"- so next time, get all the info before you bring home a new snake- it just makes it easier to help them adjust. Don't feel bad though, we've all blown it in our excitement of the moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That's great that you found out for sure what she was fed previously. As I said before, it's best to offer a new snake the same (or roughly the same) as what they ate before. I would tend to go with "slightly smaller than previously fed", in this case a hopper- ie. just weaned- mice- only because a new snake is a little less confident in a new home.

I wouldn't make major changes right now (in her home), but just some privacy tweaks if possible. I wouldn't droop any foliage over the front of that "hide" though, assuming your snake will be in there waiting to grab the prey, since the foliage could get in the way & cause an epic fail. ;)

Like the name Ophelia, btw- :D The more you know about snakes, the more fascinating they become. And "addicting"- so next time, get all the info before you bring home a new snake- it just makes it easier to help them adjust. Don't feel bad though, we've all blown it in our excitement of the moment.

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For sure, and noted :)

That's the funny thing, I genuinely thought I was ready by the time I got her. But I kept running into little things that turned out I wasn't quite as prepared as I thought I was. Oh well, can't change that fact now. It's not unlike me to learn things best by doing them, but of course you gotta be careful with that way of doing things when it involves another creatures life.

I do appreciate the advice, it's been very useful.

When looking at potential new occupants of my home (be they reptile or otherwise), I usually take with me a list of questions I need answers to, & before committing to or leaving with the creature in question, I make sure I have them all answered satisfactorily. I don't trust my memory either, under such circumstances- :D

Just wanted to give an update - She just took her first meal with me! I'm so happy. I think the new hides and extra time to get used to her space have helped a lot, and now I am extra confident when these better hides arrive at the end of the week she'll be in good shape for future feedings. I went with just a size smaller than what I imagine the breeder was going with, and it went smoothly without any injuries and undue suffering on the mouses part. So I feel very good about this one. Especially since the new proportional thermostat seems to be doing a much better job than the on/off one I was using so we should be in good shape going forward for now.

Now just a couple more and I'll begin making the switch over to F/T.

Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement. I am feeling waaaay better going forward.

I love updates like this! :D :dance::carrot: :gj: