Heating pad unstuck

Hi gang!

I transitioned my BP into a 20g long enclosure.

During the transition, I noticed my Zoo-med heating pad lost it's adhesion from underneath the tank and was sitting on the 3/4" plywood that the tank was sitting on. The plywood didn't deflect any heat, as evidenced by the crack on my cabinet that the tank was sitting on!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: Not happy with that. It apparently didn't effect the temp in the tank.

Two questions:

1. Is the heating pad done? No longer usable? Is there an adhesive that's heat tolerant?

2. What heat resistant pads do you guys use to save your cabinet?

Thanks!

I sure hope your heating pad (aka "UTH") is controlled by a thermostat? I ask, because usually it takes a while for one to crack a cabinet if it's not running full-blast. If not, do get that done ASAP, because those Zoo-Meds get too hot- your snake can get a thermal burn over 90*- you want all surface temps in the tank to be less than that, with a cooler side (about 77-80*) so the snake can thermoregulate (cool down) as needed.

I actually don't use the Zoo-Med kind of heat, though I tried one or 2 many years ago- didn't care for them (because they get so hot & because of that nasty adhesive). I use heat tapes -the original Flex-Watt- https://beanfarm.com/products/paneli...e-110v-20-watt (or the narrower type) https://beanfarm.com/collections/heating Other similar brands are around too, fyi- https://www.reptilebasics.com/heat-tape Not saying you need to change, btw, but in case yours is toast or you just want to know what's out there?

So here's what I do- I put something under the tanks & on top of wood cabinets so if the UTH did come unstuck, it won't be laying on the wood. Best thing is thin ceramic tiles*- they're a good "heat sink" (they retain some heat, but soften the effect on the wood below) & you can even put something under the tile(s) if there's room, like some felt or thin sheet cork, to further protect the wood. If you visit a store that installs flooring (carpet & tiles & linoleum), just ask them for a few tiles leftover from one of their jobs- doesn't matter what color, but just make SURE it won't be too thick- your don't want the glass totally resting on the tiles/UTH.

For my heat mats, I've used that foil tape to hold mine to a tank. I actually prefer it to sticking them on sometimes so I don't risk ruining it with removal.
If it just unstuck itself it should be okay. It's only a risk of you peel it. If there's no airflow under the tank as well, yeah it was probably at full blast a lot of the time which heats up as high as 130F from what I've personally seen. I hope the probe stayed stuck to the glass at least to protect the critter but sucks about the cabinet

Just to stave off any ungrounded worries, the heat mat didn't crack the cabinet. The amount of time and degree of heat that it would take to damage wood under and below 3/4 plywood isn't something that a heat mat could generate without severe damage to the mat and tank above (to say nothing of the snake).

Heat mats are commonly used directly attached to PVC (which starts to soften in water just off the boil -- 200F or so), under polypropylene tubs (melting point in the low 300sF), very safely.

FYI, the R value (insulating value) of plywood is slightly more than that of ceramic tile, and plywood can be had that's thicker than tiles. The R value of a 3/8" tile is 0.375, and that of 3/4" plywood is 0.93.

Just to clarify my previous answer, the reason I use ceramic tiles under my tanks & UTH is that it's non-flammable, not for the R-value. ;) I agree that 3/4" plywood is highly insulating.

As far a "cracking cabinets", I've only had one similar experience- or really 2, since I have identical coffee tables used to hold a couple of large tanks. These coffee tables are made of oak that is pieced together lengthwise for the tops, & they weren't the most expensive furniture around. :rolleyes: The continual heating from the UTH above does appear to have accelerated the drying out & separating of the glue holding some of the wood pieces together, but the tables remain completely intact, & they're quite old at this point- a good thirty+ years! So I'd say that I got my money's worth even if they fell apart right now, which they're not doing. I think I noticed the cracks after about 15 years? (It hasn't been practical to lift up the tanks to oil the furniture underneath, but if I had, that may have helped?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

Just to stave off any ungrounded worries, the heat mat didn't crack the cabinet. The amount of time and degree of heat that it would take to damage wood under and below 3/4 plywood isn't something that a heat mat could generate without severe damage to the mat and tank above (to say nothing of the snake).

Heat mats are commonly used directly attached to PVC (which starts to soften in water just off the boil -- 200F or so), under polypropylene tubs (melting point in the low 300sF), very safely.

FYI, the R value (insulating value) of plywood is slightly more than that of ceramic tile, and plywood can be had that's thicker than tiles. The R value of a 3/8" tile is 0.375, and that of 3/4" plywood is 0.93.

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I thought the same thing, thinking that 3/4" plywood would be a GREAT insulator. When I moved the tank, the heat pad was just sitting on the plywood. When I touched the underside of the plywood, it was more than warm! When I touched the cabinet surface, it was toasty.

I know terms like "toasty" and "more than warm" are subjective. My laser gun is on it's way, so that will give me more precise description.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Just to clarify my previous answer, the reason I use ceramic tiles under my tanks & UTH is that it's non-flammable, not for the R-value. ;) I agree that 3/4" plywood is highly insulating.

As far a "cracking cabinets", I've only had one similar experience- or really 2, since I have identical coffee tables used to hold a couple of large tanks. These coffee tables are made of oak that is pieced together lengthwise for the tops, & they weren't the most expensive furniture around. :rolleyes: The continual heating from the UTH above does appear to have accelerated the drying out & separating of the glue holding some of the wood pieces together, but the tables remain completely intact, & they're quite old at this point- a good thirty+ years! So I'd say that I got my money's worth even if they fell apart right now, which they're not doing. I think I noticed the cracks after about 15 years? (It hasn't been practical to lift up the tanks to oil the furniture underneath, but if I had, that may have helped?)

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I also thought it would be a great source of insulation. Guess I was wrong per my description on my earlier post reply.

I've purchased a silicone mat to further insulate my heat pad. If the pad is good enough for curling irons, I would assume it's good enough for a heating pad.

I am purchasing a temperature controlled thermostat TODAY!

Just a means of clarification, why/how could a snake burn itself with an UTH pad? The pad is stuck underneath the outside of the tank, with about 3-4" of coconut husk substrate, and his hide is sitting on that. The temp of the warm side hide never exceeds 89 degrees. The temp probe is sitting on top of the substrate in his hide. The only way I see him injuring himself is if he burrows down through the substrate.

Thanks for your help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

I also thought it would be a great source of insulation. Guess I was wrong per my description on my earlier post reply.

I've purchased a silicone mat to further insulate my heat pad. If the pad is good enough for curling irons, I would assume it's good enough for a heating pad.

I am purchasing a temperature controlled thermostat TODAY!

Just a means of clarification, why/how could a snake burn itself with an UTH pad? The pad is stuck underneath the outside of the tank, with about 3-4" of coconut husk substrate, and his hide is sitting on that. The temp of the warm side hide never exceeds 89 degrees. The temp probe is sitting on top of the substrate in his hide. The only way I see him injuring himself is if he burrows down through the substrate.

Thanks for your help!

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Silicone pad sounds great- there's more than one good way to do things. It's like in medicine: First, do no harm. ;) Also: Thermostats are only good when correctly installed. Ask if not sure.

Yes- you just figured it out. Sooner or later, snakes burrow- substrate gets pushed away, & that hot floor underneath can "burn" the snake. Again, no (!) surface temperature is safe for a snake to lay on when it's over 90*. And you're asking for trouble with 3-4" of substrate, because that is actually "insulation"- it's going to prevent most of the heat from rising into the snake's home where it's needed, and might even overheat the UTH. No wonder it came unstuck...;)

Keep the substrate to no more than 1" deep over UTH- many say .5"- but it depends on the kind of substrate- some is more dense than other kinds. BPs are not big at burrowing either, so it's not like yours will be suffering from the lack of burrowing material- but if you want, you could always give him a deep container-full to burrow in on the "cool" side of his home instead to "play in"- just make sure it's never over the UTH. See? 3-4" of substrate is a waste of resources anyway.

One more thing that comes up now & then- remember you're roughly 98.6*, so that 90* surface won't feel hot to you, it will feel cool. Same goes for water (people sometimes try to soak or wash their snakes in water that feels nice & warm to them, only it feels HOT to their poor pet. So get & use an accurate thermometer ("temp. gun"). Many snakes have been known to sustain "burn" injuries after laying on surfaces that were too warm to be safe for them, & for unknown reasons they don't get off in time- burns are painful, may become infected & ooze, take a long time to heal, & may be fatal depending on the severity. A snake may first show some redness (pinkness) on their ventral scales, so watch for that. (Which is confusing because some snakes also do that pre-shed. You need to be a "detective" when you keep snakes-:cool: )

And btw, you seem to be catching on quite fast-:gj: so don't feel bad for getting some things wrong...feel GREAT for asking & learning better ways to do this stuff.

I'm reconsidering my statement above. I suppose with no thermostat and way too much insulating substrate, all bets are off. With a temp of 89F on top of 4" of coco chip and all that above an air gap, the temps underneath must have been quite high. I'm glad nothing worse happened. :)

How large was the original enclosure, and what size is the heating pad? I'm curious in part to understand what sort of situation could cause the damage you mention, and also to figure out if maybe a new and larger heat pad would be a good idea (I like to shoot for about a third of the enclosure warm, ideally tapering off to the cool side). After running it at such high temps, it may be a good idea anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I'm reconsidering my statement above. I suppose with no thermostat and way too much insulating substrate, all bets are off. With a temp of 89F on top of 4" of coco chip and all that above an air gap, the temps underneath must have been quite high. I'm glad nothing worse happened. :)

How large was the original enclosure, and what size is the heating pad? I'm curious in part to understand what sort of situation could cause the damage you mention, and also to figure out if maybe a new and larger heat pad would be a good idea (I like to shoot for about a third of the enclosure warm, ideally tapering off to the cool side). After running it at such high temps, it may be a good idea anyway.

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For snakes like BPs or large boas that need more warmth, I agree, I'd prefer to heat about a third of the floor too. And also depending on room or home temperatures & local climate. As long as they have at least 1/3 of the floor that's off the heat just for safety.

@ nvmycj- You see, we (Malum Argenteum & I) both have lots of years experience keeping many snakes, & often it still helps to discuss the best methods & answers to problems, because each situation is a little different. Plus it's harder online, since we're not seeing what might otherwise be obvious in person. I'm sure glad nothing worse happened too- safety is the most important thing. Keeping reptiles isn't as simple or obvious as some pet stores make it sound- I think they don't want to scare off sales by making it sound too complex.

Ideally, it's better to completely set-up & test run an enclosure for a week or more with no occupants, & adjust the temperatures when you won't be affecting a resident. Since yours just ate, it's super important that he not be too cool (for digestion) now.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Silicone pad sounds great- there's more than one good way to do things. It's like in medicine: First, do no harm. ;) Also: Thermostats are only good when correctly installed. Ask if not sure.

Yes- you just figured it out. Sooner or later, snakes burrow- substrate gets pushed away, & that hot floor underneath can "burn" the snake. Again, no (!) surface temperature is safe for a snake to lay on when it's over 90*. And you're asking for trouble with 3-4" of substrate, because that is actually "insulation"- it's going to prevent most of the heat from rising into the snake's home where it's needed, and might even overheat the UTH. No wonder it came unstuck...;)

Keep the substrate to no more than 1" deep over UTH- many say .5"- but it depends on the kind of substrate- some is more dense than other kinds. BPs are not big at burrowing either, so it's not like yours will be suffering from the lack of burrowing material- but if you want, you could always give him a deep container-full to burrow in on the "cool" side of his home instead to "play in"- just make sure it's never over the UTH. See? 3-4" of substrate is a waste of resources anyway.

One more thing that comes up now & then- remember you're roughly 98.6*, so that 90* surface won't feel hot to you, it will feel cool. Same goes for water (people sometimes try to soak or wash their snakes in water that feels nice & warm to them, only it feels HOT to their poor pet. So get & use an accurate thermometer ("temp. gun"). Many snakes have been known to sustain "burn" injuries after laying on surfaces that were too warm to be safe for them, & for unknown reasons they don't get off in time- burns are painful, may become infected & ooze, take a long time to heal, & may be fatal depending on the severity. A snake may first show some redness (pinkness) on their ventral scales, so watch for that. (Which is confusing because some snakes also do that pre-shed. You need to be a "detective" when you keep snakes-:cool: )

And btw, you seem to be catching on quite fast-:gj: so don't feel bad for getting some things wrong...feel GREAT for asking & learning better ways to do this stuff.

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Holy crap!! Who knew I was using too much substrate?!?!? I've read that a good layer of substrate helps retain humidity levels and gives BP's a place to burrow. Which mine has done a time or two. I'm using coconut husks as a substrate so 0.5-1" of substrate over the UTH would basically be one or two pieces deep of the husks. Could I taper the substrate into and out of the warm hide? Would that be ok? Can I add some sphagnum moss in his warm hide to that shallow of a substrate?

OK,...so now for thermostat placement,...and for clarification...

My temp probe and hygrometer sensor is a combo unit sitting ON TOP of his substrate in both his warm and cool hides? Is that correct placement?

I really do appreciate your patience with all my questions. You've been very kind in taking the time to answer all of them.

A hygrometer placed against damp substrate will fail soon. The sensors don't tolerate standing water on them, even condensation. If you measure RH, measuring the RH in the enclosure itself seems typical. Measuring the general enclosure temp with that meter is useful too.

When you get your thermostat, the thermostat probe gets fastened (taped) between the heat pad and the bottom of the enclosure on the outside of the enclosure. Then use an IR temp gun to determine what probe temp corresponds to what hide temp -- so if you're targeting 85F as a hide temp, and that temp is reached when the thermostat probe is at 90F, then set the thermostat to 90F and do periodic spot checks with the IR gun to make sure the hide temp is appropriate.

On burrowing -- I'm going off script, since I only keep one BP. But my understanding is that BPs do live in burrows in the wild, but they don't dig those burrows (they're sure not adapted to do so). That implies that they should be given burrow-like hides (I'm a big user of cork rounds wherever possible -- many herps seem to really get a lot of use out of them) but not necessarily substrate that encourages burrowing. Giving them enough substrate so they can use it to choose to be a little more moist (by scootching down into damp substrate) is a good idea though, as is offering a wide range of moisture and temperature gradients throughout the enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I'm reconsidering my statement above. I suppose with no thermostat and way too much insulating substrate, all bets are off. With a temp of 89F on top of 4" of coco chip and all that above an air gap, the temps underneath must have been quite high. I'm glad nothing worse happened. :)

How large was the original enclosure, and what size is the heating pad? I'm curious in part to understand what sort of situation could cause the damage you mention, and also to figure out if maybe a new and larger heat pad would be a good idea (I like to shoot for about a third of the enclosure warm, ideally tapering off to the cool side). After running it at such high temps, it may be a good idea anyway.

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https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil.../2/image0.jpeg

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Hi Malum Argenteum!

I just noticed your post. Sorry for the delayed reply.

I've attached pics of the initial tank he was in and where the UTH was located. The UTH did cover 1/3 of the 10x20 tank. So that's a plus. And you can see the substrate depth. Also attached is the warped pad itself.

His new tank is a 20g long. It's a 30x12. Would a new heating pad sized 8x12 work for the new tank?

Reading the posts from you and Bogertophis, I too, am VERY thankful nothing detrimental has happened to my little guy!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

A hygrometer placed against damp substrate will fail soon. The sensors don't tolerate standing water on them, even condensation. If you measure RH, measuring the RH in the enclosure itself seems typical. Measuring the general enclosure temp with that meter is useful too.

When you get your thermostat, the thermostat probe gets fastened (taped) between the heat pad and the bottom of the enclosure on the outside of the enclosure. Then use an IR temp gun to determine what probe temp corresponds to what hide temp -- so if you're targeting 85F as a hide temp, and that temp is reached when the thermostat probe is at 90F, then set the thermostat to 90F and do periodic spot checks with the IR gun to make sure the hide temp is appropriate.

On burrowing -- I'm going off script, since I only keep one BP. But my understanding is that BPs do live in burrows in the wild, but they don't dig those burrows (they're sure not adapted to do so). That implies that they should be given burrow-like hides (I'm a big user of cork rounds wherever possible -- many herps seem to really get a lot of use out of them) but not necessarily substrate that encourages burrowing. Giving them enough substrate so they can use it to choose to be a little more moist (by scootching down into damp substrate) is a good idea though, as is offering a wide range of moisture and temperature gradients throughout the enclosure.

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OMG! I've been doing the temp prob wrong too!!!:tears::tears::mad::mad: :O:O

Looks like I'm heading to store to get a SEPARATE hygrometer and a SEPARATE thermometer prob and thermostat!!! Do you suggest a specific brand?

Once I get the heat pad and warm hide temp regulated, will I need a tank thermometer to monitor the tanks temp?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

For snakes like BPs or large boas that need more warmth, I agree, I'd prefer to heat about a third of the floor too. And also depending on room or home temperatures & local climate. As long as they have at least 1/3 of the floor that's off the heat just for safety.

@ nvmycj- You see, we (Malum Argenteum & I) both have lots of years experience keeping many snakes, & often it still helps to discuss the best methods & answers to problems, because each situation is a little different. Plus it's harder online, since we're not seeing what might otherwise be obvious in person. I'm sure glad nothing worse happened too- safety is the most important thing. Keeping reptiles isn't as simple or obvious as some pet stores make it sound- I think they don't want to scare off sales by making it sound too complex.

Ideally, it's better to completely set-up & test run an enclosure for a week or more with no occupants, & adjust the temperatures when you won't be affecting a resident. Since yours just ate, it's super important that he not be too cool (for digestion) now.

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Absolutely love hearing multiple opinion, and each setup and situation is different!

Aaaaaaaaand,....I love the recommendation of having an empty enclosure setup before your :snake: moves in. Testing the waters as they say.

These mistakes will NOT be made again.

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/9/1/6/0/2/0.jpg

ok guys,...since we talked about heating, temp control, feeding, and substrate, we might as well continue on with lighting.

Here's his new set up. There's a 75w bulb above his warm hide, and next to it is a UVB light. On a night day cycle. The warm hide gets to 86-87 degrees with the light alone.

Here's what I'm thinking....

Turn on light and UVB at 7:00am.
Turn on UTH at 6:00pm to allow for hide to begin warming up.
Turn off light and UVB at 7:00pm.
Turn off UTH at 5:00am.

My rationale...turning the light off with cool off his hide. He needs some warmth at night, right? I've read they can tolerate night temps drops of 70degrees, mimicking their tropical day/night temperature swings. I'd leave his warm side at 78-80 degrees at night.

You are right with the burrowing! They do bask, burrow, climb, and hide. It's more common for a ball python to take the burrow of another animal instead of making their own but my bp has actually dug in his substrate all on his own before.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/files/9/1/6/0/2/0.jpg

ok guys,...since we talked about heating, temp control, feeding, and substrate, we might as well continue on with lighting.

Here's his new set up. There's a 75w bulb above his warm hide, and next to it is a UVB light. On a night day cycle. The warm hide gets to 86-87 degrees with the light alone.

Here's what I'm thinking....

Turn on light and UVB at 7:00am.
Turn on UTH at 6:00pm to allow for hide to begin warming up.
Turn off light and UVB at 7:00pm.
Turn off UTH at 5:00am.

My rationale...turning the light off with cool off his hide. He needs some warmth at night, right? I've read they can tolerate night temps drops of 70degrees, mimicking their tropical day/night temperature swings. I'd leave his warm side at 78-80 degrees at night.

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Do you see your snake coming out under the light you're providing? I'm guessing not...? They're not into bright lights at all- ambient room light is enough for them, so overhead light fixtures are best used for providing warmth without much or any light (though there is debate about the need for UVB issue). I prefer to use either red or black "old fashioned" incandescent bulbs for warmth, or CHE's that put out heat only. If you use a CHE, make SURE your light fixture can handle the heat & wattage, some cannot (you want fixtures with metal holding the bulb, not plastic inside so they don't melt), & also, I use lamp dimmers & virtually never crank up the outputs- it's just supplemental warmth & you'll have to see how much you need (I use UTH in all my tanks). You can also use a thermostat & timers to regulate these if you want, but I'd NEVER turn off the UTH. Also, 70* at night for a BP will probably make him stop eating- I wouldn't go below 75* on the cool side @ night. BPs can be fussy....:rolleyes:

Again, never* turn off the UTH...;) Use overhead (dim) lights or CHE for added warmth- not so much for "light". I'm glad you're asking & you're obviously trying hard. :gj: BPs are complicated. *One reason we advise setting up a snake's home a week+ ahead of time is that UTH takes time (!) to warm all the furnishings & surrounding surfaces, even underneath it. The heat gradually keeps rising initially for days so you need to check & use a t-stat to make sure it doesn't get too warm. Regulate the UTH, but don't turn it off...the snake may get too cool while digesting & then upchuck his meal.

Is that top made of some sort of screen? Can't tell from this angle, just assuming... So you'll lose most all the needed humidity unless you cover most of it (with something that NO air goes thru, leaving a few small air gaps for fresh air circulation. (Ie. a gap on the cool side for inflow, & a gap on the warm side for outflow- warm air rises, so fresh air is naturally brought it the other side.) You can use various things to cover a screen top- you want something light weight (foil or plastic work, but aren't pretty), some have plexi cut to fit (but it's expensive) -super thin plywood will work, as will other options. Even coated* cardboard (*so it doesn't absorb humidity).

+1 on everything Bogertophis said up there, including not being entirely gung ho on to offering UVB (especially unmetered UVB, I'll add) to a species that doesn't require it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

OMG! I've been doing the temp prob wrong too!!!:tears::tears::mad::mad: :O:O

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I'd look at all this more as improving your practices rather than 'doing it wrong'. We can all improve, all the time. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

Looks like I'm heading to store to get a SEPARATE hygrometer and a SEPARATE thermometer prob and thermostat!!! Do you suggest a specific brand?

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I've had good luck with such products from Acu-Rite. I've not had long (or even medium) term success with pet-marketed electronic accessories (Zoo Med and the like).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

Once I get the heat pad and warm hide temp regulated, will I need a tank thermometer to monitor the tanks temp?

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Not necessarily, but it wouldn't hurt. The most useful readings will come from an IR temp gun (they should make them with a belt holster so they're always at hand -- only half joking here). I have a thermometer in some enclosures just as a sanity check, but most I don't. Keeping an eye on the snake's behavior can tell a lot too -- if they're avoiding the warm side, or always hanging on it, that's a clue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

mimicking their tropical day/night temperature swings.

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Without knowing quite a bit about how wild BPs regulate their temp during nocturnal activity, I'd be hesitant to give much of a night temp drop, especially beyond the background temp drop the enclosure will experience simply from being located in a human house. I poked around Google Scholar and couldn't find any good info on BPs nocturnal activity as related to temps. It may well be (like leopard geckos, who shouldn't be provided much of a night temp drop, if any, contrary to some claims) that they stay burrowed up on cooler nights, or they may limit the duration of their excursions so to go warm up often. Continuing to offer a typical temp gradient no matter what time it is will allow the snake to regulate its own temp as needed. Unless the keeper has a real solid understanding of why they're forcing something (like cooler temps) on an animal, it might usefully be assumed that the animal knows best how to take care of itself and will do so if given the options.

@nvmycj:
And a +1 from me on Malum Argenteum's above post too. (We're almost to the point of finishing each other's sentences...:rofl: )

You see now just how much there is to know & understand about snake-keeping- they're not like keeping other kinds of pets. It's very normal for new keepers to need some help getting things right, especially with all the confusing & wrong information there is floating around. This forum is just here to help people figure things out so animals are safe & healthy, & their owners aren't tearing their hair out...lol. Plus, we all learn more with the exchange of ideas, because some things are always changing, with new products invented.

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

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Also attached is the warped pad itself.

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Oh yikes!
Forget what I said earlier. That needs to go.
If it was just the adhesive that failed, it's fine. Something else may have happened to cause that warp and this is now a fire hazard or severe burn risk

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Oh yikes!
Forget what I said earlier. That needs to go.
If it was just the adhesive that failed, it's fine. Something else may have happened to cause that warp and this is now a fire hazard or severe burn risk

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Oh yes, thank you for catching that! :O This is why it helps to have multiple eyes on these things. I totally agree- a heat pad that has deformed (apparently from over-heating!) is no longer safe- replace it A.S.A.P.- don't just wait for it to fail.

I've used UTH safely "forever" without issue (mine is "Flex-Watt", not the same) but any time you see damage it's best not to use it as it can fail at any time. I had one Flex-watt section get bent when I moved & after that it no longer worked- that bend was enough to cause an open circuit. But most of my Flex-watt is "ancient" because I'm careful- moving can just be chaos though, & Flex-Watt is very thin, no room for error.

The person I purchased a rack from second hand had the flexiwatt burn a hole in the bottom tub. It's one with a recessed space for the tape too. So it was a bit odd for that to go.

Defects can happen in any product. I remember King of DIY had an issue with an underwater heater that boiled his stingrays years ago too.

I guess this is a good reminder to check a few of my flexi watt lengths later. I have one rack that does have the tubs on the tape. I try and check that one every 2-3 months for scuffs and damage. The others I usually just temp check from time to time. Maybe it's a good inspection time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

The person I purchased a rack from second hand had the flexiwatt burn a hole in the bottom tub. It's one with a recessed space for the tape too. So it was a bit odd for that to go.

Defects can happen in any product. I remember King of DIY had an issue with an underwater heater that boiled his stingrays years ago too.

I guess this is a good reminder to check a few of my flexi watt lengths later. I have one rack that does have the tubs on the tape. I try and check that one every 2-3 months for scuffs and damage. The others I usually just temp check from time to time. Maybe it's a good inspection time.

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Oh for sure, any product can fail- especially if it suffers a bit of accidental abuse. Was it the actual Flex-watt brand, or one of the look-alikes? With all these products in use for so many years, it's a wonder there aren't more known mishaps.

Yeah. It had the flex-watt branding when I gutted it. At least it's reliable enough that failures are very few and far between when run in the safer ways. Like running in a channel for no rub damage and correctly monitored with thermostats.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Defects can happen in any product. I remember King of DIY had an issue with an underwater heater that boiled his stingrays years ago too.

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Aquarium heaters are nightmares, since they're a 'price point' oriented product. The only truly reliable solution is an Apex controller running a pair of titanium heating elements, though that's $400 at the low end.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Oh yes, thank you for catching that! :O This is why it helps to have multiple eyes on these things. I totally agree- a heat pad that has deformed (apparently from over-heating!) is no longer safe- replace it A.S.A.P.- don't just wait for it to fail.

I've used UTH safely "forever" without issue (mine is "Flex-Watt", not the same) but any time you see damage it's best not to use it as it can fail at any time. I had one Flex-watt section get bent when I moved & after that it no longer worked- that bend was enough to cause an open circuit. But most of my Flex-watt is "ancient" because I'm careful- moving can just be chaos though, & Flex-Watt is very thin, no room for error.

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I'm really not sure why I haven't received an email about the replies from you guys? All of a sudden I've stopped getting these alerts. I figured it was the holiday and nobody wanted to talk to me! :tears::tears: LOL! So I logged in and here we are.

Such valuable info from so many of you!

Bogertophis,... is this what you were talking about? https://www.reptilebasics.com/heat-t...ape-connected/ I assume these are also placed on the OUTSIDE underneath the tank.

All these stories about UTH's failing makes me pucker a bit. I guess I'll be checking mine weekly, just to CYA!

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

I'm really not sure why I haven't received an email about the replies from you guys? All of a sudden I've stopped getting these alerts. I figured it was the holiday and nobody wanted to talk to me! :tears::tears: LOL! So I logged in and here we are.

Such valuable info from so many of you!

Bogertophis,... is this what you were talking about? https://www.reptilebasics.com/heat-t...ape-connected/ I assume these are also placed on the OUTSIDE underneath the tank.

All these stories about UTH's failing makes me pucker a bit. I guess I'll be checking mine weekly, just to CYA!

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Yes- Flex-watt is also placed OUTSIDE, underneath the tank. And the probe is sandwiched between the glass & the UTH, then the t-stat adjusted when the INSIDE temp. is correct as measured directly over the bare glass, without substrate (as could happen when snakes get pushy & burrow down).

That product from reptile-basics is not "Flex-watt" brand but is made similar- I cannot speak for that which I've never tried. I think you can get the brand Flex-watt from "The Bean Farm" (online), if you wish. But do be advised (at least in my experience- & mine is all old "original" Flex-watt) that Flex-watt doesn't get quite as hot as some other UTH -like the one you had that tried a meltdown.

The kinds of snakes I keep (not BPs currently) do not require as much heat as BPs do either, so I prefer Flex-watt. I've had nothing but long-term (decades!) of safe operation using it. Safety when using any UTH depends on controlling it correctly- with a t-stat (or rheostat, where applicable). That generally prevents problems, as does correct installation- leaving the small air-gap as directed, & don't let a tank or enclosure sit directly on a wire- as over time, that can cause a failure too. And don't over-insulate OVER any UTH with deep substrate.

Yeah, I wondered why you stopped talking to us? :D Welcome back...

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

That product from reptile-basics is not "Flex-watt" brand but is made similar- I cannot speak for that which I've never tried. I think you can get the brand Flex-watt from "The Bean Farm" (online), if you wish. But do be advised (at least in my experience- & mine is all old "original" Flex-watt) that Flex-watt doesn't get quite as hot as some other UTH -like the one you had that tried a meltdown.

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I've used both, and I slightly prefer Flexwatt, both the connectors and the feel of the tape.

As for which gets hotter, it varies according to the width. For example, the 3" tape from FW is available in either 6w per foot or 10w per foot; 3" from THG is 4w per foot. But the 6" FW is 9w per foot and THG is 12w per foot.

The 12" THG in the link above is 23w per foot; the equivalent FW (11") is 20w per foot. A ZooMed 8 x 12 is 16w, which figures out to 24w per foot of 12" heat tape. So yes, FW would not get as hot (and if it doesn't get hot enough, it isn't being used correctly).

Using a Herpstat enables setting a maximum output limit on the tape, so for example you could run 10w per foot tape at a maximum of 5w per foot simply by limiting the output to 50% (or similarly for any heat pad). Using a thermostat with safety features (max setting, over and under temp alarms) is a really good idea, and worth the investment ten times over.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Yes- Flex-watt is also placed OUTSIDE, underneath the tank. And the probe is sandwiched between the glass & the UTH, then the t-stat adjusted when the INSIDE temp. is correct as measured directly over the bare glass, without substrate (as could happen when snakes get pushy & burrow down).

That product from reptile-basics is not "Flex-watt" brand but is made similar- I cannot speak for that which I've never tried. I think you can get the brand Flex-watt from "The Bean Farm" (online), if you wish. But do be advised (at least in my experience- & mine is all old "original" Flex-watt) that Flex-watt doesn't get quite as hot as some other UTH -like the one you had that tried a meltdown.

The kinds of snakes I keep (not BPs currently) do not require as much heat as BPs do either, so I prefer Flex-watt. I've had nothing but long-term (decades!) of safe operation using it. Safety when using any UTH depends on controlling it correctly- with a t-stat (or rheostat, where applicable). That generally prevents problems, as does correct installation- leaving the small air-gap as directed, & don't let a tank or enclosure sit directly on a wire- as over time, that can cause a failure too. And don't over-insulate OVER any UTH with deep substrate.

Yeah, I wondered why you stopped talking to us? :D Welcome back...

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OK,… I have my temperature probe in between the glass and my heating pad on the outside of the tank. My heat mat thermostat is hooked up as well.

Do you think the temperature probe wiring is safe with the heating mat?

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

OK,… I have my temperature probe in between the glass and my heating pad on the outside of the tank. My heat mat thermostat is hooked up as well.

Do you think the temperature probe wiring is safe with the heating mat?

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:confusd: I'm not quite sure what you're asking? Why wouldn't it be safe?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

:confusd: I'm not quite sure what you're asking? Why wouldn't it be safe?

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the metal temperature probe is connected via a black wire. With all this talk about overheating, I was just double checking to see if that black wire is safe while stuck on and touching the heat pad. Sorry about the confusion.

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Originally Posted by nvmycj

the metal temperature probe is connected via a black wire. With all this talk about overheating, I was just double checking to see if that black wire is safe while stuck on and touching the heat pad. Sorry about the confusion.

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It's fine.