If I had known 3 years ago...

That the BP scene was going to become a total buyer's market by 2023, a BP would've been one of the last snakes I got. :rofl: You can get a triple visual, including a super no less, for a mere $100.
https://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rep...ythons/1289670

For reference, my single gene banana was $250 back in 2020. For that price now you can get a banana with 1, 2, even 3 other genes in the mix (including recessives!). Crazy.
https://www.morphmarket.com/us/c/rep...ythons/1660147

That's a bit of a head-banger, for sure, but that's life sometimes. :rolleyes: And "it's only money"- if you're happy with what you got, that's more important.

My last pick up was 1.1 lesser orange dreams for 100$
xD;

Part of it is just prices going down on combos because there has been more time to establish them, but most of it is that some morphs go down in price and others go up. BEL's have gone up in price a lot in that same time frame even though they come from genes that have been around for ages. I picked up a 4 gene male for ~150 several years ago but they were not highly sought after morphs at the time that made up the combo, where that combo would go for 400-500 today because they have gained popularity.

Does the market value of your animal cause you to value it less as a pet that you’ve opted to enjoy and care for? If so then…

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Does the market value of your animal cause you to value it less as a pet that you’ve opted to enjoy and care for? If so then…

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Oh don't misunderstand, my BP is my boy and I cherish him as much as any of my animals, sorry if it came off that way. This was more of an "Aww shucks, oh well" kind of observation than anything else and an overall commentary on market shifts. And even then I really have not been paying much attention to BP stuff at all and this was but a curious look in on how far prices have dropped since I pop into MorphMarket periodically just to idly browse.

I just paid $300 for pair which I thought was a good deal - considering the male is a quad gene & the female is a triple gene.

Although I am new to the scene and don't know prices were a few years back.

:P

When we got our first in 2005 my husband was enthralled with piebalds, at the time they were considerably more expensive and I said no way, give it ten years and I'll get you a nice one, by the time prices came down there were so many morphs and bp's everywhere I'd completely lost interest in them as a species lol.

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

When we got our first in 2005 my husband was enthralled with piebalds, at the time they were considerably more expensive and I said no way, give it ten years and I'll get you a nice one, by the time prices came down there were so many morphs and bp's everywhere I'd completely lost interest in them as a species lol.

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I actually had a very similar story over a smaller time frame. Before I got mine I was very interested in pieds but they were all just beyond my strict price range (didn't have a proper job back then so income was spotty) so I went with a cheaper banana. And by the time I got regular income again and I could afford more snakes, I wanted to expand to other species instead. :confuzd:

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Originally Posted by GoingPostal

When we got our first in 2005 my husband was enthralled with piebalds, at the time they were considerably more expensive and I said no way, give it ten years and I'll get you a nice one, by the time prices came down there were so many morphs and bp's everywhere I'd completely lost interest in them as a species lol.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

I actually had a very similar story over a smaller time frame. Before I got mine I was very interested in pieds but they were all just beyond my strict price range (didn't have a proper job back then so income was spotty) so I went with a cheaper banana. And by the time I got regular income again and I could afford more snakes, I wanted to expand to other species instead. :confuzd:

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Both of you point to one of the problems with pets that become too "available" & seen everywhere- after a while, no matter how beautiful & appealing they may be, many people crave something "else"- something more unique, something other than what "everyone else has". In fact that's one of the secrets of avoiding "impulse buys" is to force a "cooling off" period; sometimes you find another option, or just find you don't need "one of those" at all. I'm a lover of variety myself- I've always thought BPs are beautiful, but they're just not my thing, & I say that after having had some many years ago. There's a lot more to snakes than just their appearance, & it honestly makes me sad that so many cool snakes are overlooked because BPs are just about the only snakes that people see & hear about. :confusd:

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Both of you point to one of the problems with pets that become too "available" & seen everywhere- after a while, no matter how beautiful & appealing they may be, many people crave something "else"- something more unique, something other than what "everyone else has". In fact that's one of the secrets of avoiding "impulse buys" is to force a "cooling off" period; sometimes you find another option, or just find you don't need "one of those" at all. I'm a lover of variety myself- I've always thought BPs are beautiful, but they're just not my thing, & I say that after having had some many years ago. There's a lot more to snakes than just their appearance, & it honestly makes me sad that so many cool snakes are overlooked because BPs are just about the only snakes that people see & hear about. :confusd:

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Which kind of in and of itself a problem, that BPs are just absolutely everywhere as I've pointed out in the past. They outnumber nearly any other species available 10 to 1, to the point where many people outright aren't aware of other species because BPs take up so much advertising space. Go to any given show and they take up half the vendor tables for example.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

Which kind of in and of itself a problem, that BPs are just absolutely everywhere as I've pointed out in the past. They outnumber nearly any other species available 10 to 1, to the point where many people outright aren't aware of other species because BPs take up so much advertising space. Go to any given show and they take up half the vendor tables for example.

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BP's have been everywhere for a very long time now, which isn't surprising as they breed at a relatively young age, they are easy to breed, and you can keep quite a few in a small space. Boas take longer to mature and get bigger so you don't see as many. Savu pythons are rarely, if ever, seen because females don't mature until 5-6 years old and they have small clutches, so no one intending to breed for quick $ wanted to wait that long.

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Originally Posted by bcr229

BP's have been everywhere for a very long time now, which isn't surprising as they breed at a relatively young age, they are easy to breed, and you can keep quite a few in a small space. Boas take longer to mature and get bigger so you don't see as many. Savu pythons are rarely, if ever, seen because females don't mature until 5-6 years old and they have small clutches, so no one intending to breed for quick $ wanted to wait that long.

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I feel like I remember a time period where both boas and corn snakes were the top "in" thing and then they got to be so heavily oversaturated in the market that a huge change happened and people quit breeding them. I think what makes BPs different and why people haven't backed out the way they did with boas and corn snakes has a lot to do with how many morphs are incomplete dominant, therefore have an incredibly fast turnaround time breeding and combining. I can't think of any other species, even outside reptiles, that has so many. This drags so many new people into breeding in a way that just doesn't happen in other species, and we have a flow of new breeders that seems to sustain the market well enough for established breeders to keep breeding in huge numbers. The new breeder burnout is still a serious issue though, and the market has so many animals people simply do not have the reach to get their animals sold. Morph Market alleviated this to a small extent, but it's still a huge problem, and why I'm glad that at least people on this forum are fast to warn new people about. I'm always wondering when it's going to hit that point where it collapses the way of the boas and corns. I really wish people would take it slow and work their way up instead of jump in head first.

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Originally Posted by nikkubus

I feel like I remember a time period where both boas and corn snakes were the top "in" thing and then they got to be so heavily oversaturated in the market that a huge change happened and people quit breeding them. I think what makes BPs different and why people haven't backed out the way they did with boas and corn snakes has a lot to do with how many morphs are incomplete dominant, therefore have an incredibly fast turnaround time breeding and combining. I can't think of any other species, even outside reptiles, that has so many. This drags so many new people into breeding in a way that just doesn't happen in other species, and we have a flow of new breeders that seems to sustain the market well enough for established breeders to keep breeding in huge numbers. The new breeder burnout is still a serious issue though, and the market has so many animals people simply do not have the reach to get their animals sold. Morph Market alleviated this to a small extent, but it's still a huge problem, and why I'm glad that at least people on this forum are fast to warn new people about. I'm always wondering when it's going to hit that point where it collapses the way of the boas and corns. I really wish people would take it slow and work their way up instead of jump in head first.

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The whole thing feels like some kind of pseudo pyramid scheme by now. A bunch of newbies come in to try and get in on the game, often struggling to sell because the market is so extremely flooded and inevitably burning out, while a small subset of breeders at the top are the ones that can afford to make and pass around the latest high-end morphs to keep the whole thing going (really that's the main thing staving off a crash, the fact that more morphs and combos are constantly coming out).

And in the midst of it all is a massive fallout of BPs unable to find homes. Normals are so common now that you can practically get them for free after a little digging. I've heard of some vendors selling them explicitly as feeders for snake-eating species there's that many.

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Originally Posted by Snagrio

...And in the midst of it all is a massive fallout of BPs unable to find homes. Normals are so common now that you can practically get them for free after a little digging. I've heard of some vendors selling them explicitly as feeders for snake-eating species there's that many.

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I don't think it's any sort of "scheme" but it's a sad fact that established breeders with good reputations are going to have a big advantage when it comes to sales. Not only that but the first ones to produce unique morphs are the ones that are going to make the most money on them- & that does tend to be the experienced breeders that have been "in the game" for a while.

And the saturated market for BPs has been around for a while now- I've lost count of how many newbies come on forums like this, determined to breed their snakes no matter how much we try to caution them. It's just like all the back-yard breeders of dogs that keep right on filling up the humane shelters- it's beyond sad, as far as I'm concerned, but far too many just don't listen. In their minds, they stand to make money by breeding their snakes- they most likely overpaid for what they have, & assume that anything they produce will fetch similar ("retail") prices, but it doesn't work that way- & especially when they don't even know what they're doing. They also fail to factor in all the COSTS, & usually have no clue about a business plan. :rolleyes: And yes, some BPs end up as "feeders"....that's reality. :( Breeding & selling snakes is a very hard way to make a living- mostly, it's a "don't quit your day job" kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I don't think it's any sort of "scheme" but it's a sad fact that established breeders with good reputations are going to have a big advantage when it comes to sales. Not only that but the first ones to produce unique morphs are the ones that are going to make the most money on them- & that does tend to be the experienced breeders that have been "in the game" for a while.

And the saturated market for BPs has been around for a while now- I've lost count of how many newbies come on forums like this, determined to breed their snakes no matter how much we try to caution them. It's just like all the back-yard breeders of dogs that keep right on filling up the humane shelters- it's beyond sad, as far as I'm concerned, but far too many just don't listen. In their minds, they stand to make money by breeding their snakes- they most likely overpaid for what they have, & assume that anything they produce will fetch similar ("retail") prices, but it doesn't work that way- & especially when they don't even know what they're doing. They also fail to factor in all the COSTS, & usually have no clue about a business plan. :rolleyes: And yes, some BPs end up as "feeders"....that's reality. :( Breeding & selling snakes is a very hard way to make a living- mostly, it's a "don't quit your day job" kind of thing.

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I did say "pseudo" pyramid scheme. ;)

And yes the BP scene has been huge for a while, but even just during the past 3 years that I've been aware of it you can't deny there's been a particular explosion. 2020 saw a lot more people entering the breeding circles and buyers as a whole (covid pets and all that). It really says something that despite everything else in life skyrocketing in price lately, including other aspects of the hobby (dear lord what happened with hognoses), BPs in general have only been continuously dropping in price.

I think the pandemic has made this worse- more people looking for ways to make a living from home. And it's about "supply & demand"- when there's too much of something- ANYTHING- the prices they command goes down.