How should I handle this?

I've mentioned before that I was planning on getting a 48"x20"x20" ABS enclosure from a local manufacturer but things have taken a turn for the worse and I'm not sure how to approach this situation or if I've been handling it correctly thus far...?

I think a little over a month ago I sent a $305 payment via Cash App to the person making the enclosures. I'd heard very good things about him and his business before and I had seen his enclosures in person, so I felt comfortable to pay in full before receiving it as he does not do payment plans or deposits. However, he stopped responding for a couple weeks and when I asked about the day I was supposed to pick up at a show near me he told me last minute that his mom was in the hospital and he felt uncomfortable leaving her. I told him I understood and he said I could pick it up at another show about 2 hours away from me two weeks later, so I scheduled off work for a second time and he one again told me last minute that he is unable to leave his mother and I said that it was okay, but I needed the enclosure within the next week. He said I could pick it up yesterday and meet his wife where they're located (~2 1/2 hours away) and he told me yesterday morning that she got called in to work and he could meet me somewhere about 2 hours away on Sunday to pick it up from him. Basically, since it was out of the 1 week time frame I asked for I said he could deliver it to me or give me a refund. The only issue is his refund policy is 85% purchase price AFTER the enclosure is sold, which I understand is similar to what many manufacturers do but I really need my money back. Haven't heard back yet.

He told me weeks ago that it would be ready to pick up. I was told multiple times that it would be ready to pick up at x date at x time and have taken time off work only to have to push it back again. I don't want to be insensitive because I know he lost his father last year and losing your parents can be hard, but I just wish he had been upfront that he isn't entirely sure when I could get it and offered to find a better solution. I just want transparency in communication.

Am I handling this correctly? Am I being too insensitive?

Personally, I would demand 100% refund at this point (actually, I would have reached that point long ago). His refund policy doesn't matter since he has failed to keep up his end of the transaction, which was to provide an enclosure and deliver it to that first show. It really sounds like you're being taken for a ride, and if you aren't then the seller would have offered a full refund some time ago because that's what responsible sellers do when they can't hold up their end of a deal. Having problems in one's life is a perfect reason to take some time off and work through them, but is absolutely not an excuse to jerk people around. You're being treated badly.

You used a non-secure payment method, which is never a safe plan when engaging in a financial transaction that has you paying for goods that you have not yet received, but you may be able to get your funds back through some other part of the transaction chain (if the account is funded by a credit card, for example).

Small claims court. Most states you can also get your court fees from him as well.

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Originally Posted by mistergreen

Small claims court. Most states you can also get your court fees from him as well.

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While you can "win" a case in small claims court, the actual collection (of your money) may be another matter. At least, that's how it used to be?

I agree with Malum Argenteum's post- this guy is jerking you around. With so many "excuses", that tells me he's likely to be a scammer. There are all kinds of contractors that promise to build homes, patios, pools, whatever- & sometimes they do, but other times (for reasons known only to them) they decide to keep the money & not do the work promised.

It's a sad lesson to learn about people- that you can't trust everyone, & if some of them think they can get away with cheating you, they will. Not only that, but when you've taken off work to meet up as promised, it appears that you've lost income because of this jerk.

In the future, I hope you'll think twice before paying in full for an unfinished & undelivered product. And by the way, some people are so skilled at making excuses, that their relatives have died many times over...:rolleyes: Business is business- these excuses don't fly.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I agree with Malum Argenteum's post- this guy is jerking you around. With so many "excuses", that tells me he's likely to be a scammer. There are all kinds of contractors that promise to build homes, patios, pools, whatever- & sometimes they do, but other times (for reasons known only to them) they decide to keep the money & not do the work promised. It's a sad lesson to learn about people- that you can't trust everyone, & if some of them think they can get away with cheating you, they will. Not only that, but when you've taken off work to meet up as promised, it appears that you've lost income because of this jerk. In the future, I hope you'll think twice before paying in full for an unfinished & undelivered product.

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I would almost NEVER pay in full for a product like this except for the fact that I'd heard such great things from local keepers about him and seen his enclosures in person. I ordered from Steve Doss who owns The Reptile Factory and apparently he also used to have another company called Snakefx or something like that. I reached out to Bob from Pro Products to see if it could use the RHP I ordered from him for some of the other enclosures I'm looking at.

I just feel like an idiot. Even if I had reason to trust him, I still shouldn't have been so naive. More than anything this is just embarrassing for me...

My own one experience with taking someone to small claims court (a car repair shop) ended up with them paying what I asked for right after they got their summons. It is a fairly simple way to put pressure on someone.

Another -- if a person wanted to play hardball -- would be to find out if the seller is complying with all the state regulations regarding small businesses, such as having a sellers permit and collecting sales tax and reporting income. Many are not (if they're using CashApp, they quite possibly are trying to fly under the radar) and are thus in a very weak position if a scammed purchaser wanted to push things legally.

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

I would almost NEVER pay in full for a product like this except for the fact that I'd heard such great things from local keepers about him and seen his enclosures in person. I ordered from Steve Doss who owns The Reptile Factory and apparently he also used to have another company called Snakefx or something like that. I reached out to Bob from Pro Products to see if it could use the RHP I ordered from him for some of the other enclosures I'm looking at.

I just feel like an idiot. Even if I had reason to trust him, I still shouldn't have been so naive. More than anything this is just embarrassing for me...

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I'm not sure what recourse you have- I'm not familiar with the payment method you used. I think you can file a complaint against a business thru your state attorney general's office- & I sure would. Maybe they'll have some more suggestions for you. Also check into your state's legal aid attorney. I wouldn't let this rest, & I sure wouldn't give up, which is what he's hoping you'll do. Some of these types will make good eventually when they find out you're fighting back- trust me. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I'm not sure what recourse you have- I'm not familiar with the payment method you used. I think you can file a complaint against a business thru your state attorney general's office- & I sure would. Maybe they'll have some more suggestions for you. Also check into your state's legal aid attorney. I wouldn't let this rest, & I sure wouldn't give up, which is what he's hoping you'll do. Some of these types will make good eventually when they find out you're fighting back.

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I just asked for a 100% refund by Sunday night and said I may consider pursuing small claims court if this issue is not resolved appropriately. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

EDIT: It appears he has seen the message (I'm using messenger) and he keeps typing and deleting I think...? Idk, guess we'll see...

I actually just went through a bit of a runaround with a dealer somewhat near to me that was kind of similar. Thankfully, we had actually gotten both products, a custom incubator and rack. I also had good word of mouth and had seen the products in a local shop that dealt with them and also at a reptile show. Now that I just finished business on these items (and unexpectedly ended up with a few extra snakes as well....) he's talking about getting out of the business because of the personal issues catching up.

I think we all remember how long the crazy lead times got for one of the other big makers at the beginning of the pandemic too....
Sometimes poopy things happen. We don't know it all...

The downside on your end is just the last minute changes. that sounds really fishy to me. If the mother is that unwell, a message earlier in the week when you know you need to skip out on a show as well would be nice. I hope there aren't others waiting to pick up from shows like you.
I would definitely look into using the refund card. Even with the policy, explaining how this isn't an issue of you wanting the product, but them not delivering the product may hopefully get something done. Did he reaffirm the refund was only for the 85% AFTER he sells it? I'm hoping you can get the 100% back but using a payment method like that is difficult. It's part of why I will never accept or pay via paypal friends and family.

Basically my thoughts are an echo of Malums I guess.

It does sound like he is jerking you around at this point from the details you have given.

That being said, when you ordered, was there any particular time frame promised, like the show, or was that something he offered later? A little detail like this could make things difficult in court.

I agree with everyone else that you've been wronged, and you have every right to be angry and seek redress. All that I'll add is that you need to also keep perspective. It's only three hundred dollars. It won't be hard between internet researching, phone calls, filling out forms, court visits, etc. to spend another three hundred dollars trying to get your money back. Then, he's screwed you over twice. Take what you can get with a reasonable amount of effort, give him a bad Yelp review, and let karma take care of the rest. Don't drive yourself crazy trying to get justice.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I agree with everyone else that you've been wronged, and you have every right to be angry and seek redress. All that I'll add is that you need to also keep perspective. It's only three hundred dollars. It won't be hard between internet researching, phone calls, filling out forms, court visits, etc. to spend another three hundred dollars trying to get your money back. Then, he's screwed you over twice. Take what you can get with a reasonable amount of effort, give him a bad Yelp review, and let karma take care of the rest. Don't drive yourself crazy trying to get justice.

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Sometimes the threat of a bad review does the job- after all, he presumably wants to remain in business. He may have pulled this on the OP because he's otherwise in debt & thought he could get away with it. Rather than buying the materials needed to fill the order, maybe he gambled away the money, or it went up his nose? There's just no excuse for this- delays can happen for sure, but not this many times, & any honest business would have refunded the money when they couldn't supply the product ordered. $300 is a great deal of money to many people & obviously to the OP. I would do everything in my power to be "made whole".

I haven't rented or leased any place for many years-the last time I did was "memorable" to say the least. It was a nice townhouse in a very nice neighborhood. The landlord was 2 guys- business partners- & I only met one when I signed the lease. He seemed very nice. Fast forward to when I was ready to move on: The landlord didn't want to refund my large security deposit- & this was the "other guy" (the one I hadn't met yet). He had no legal reason to keep my $800- he just felt like he could get away with it. I was moving a long ways away- so messing with small claims court would only have punished me. I met with him in his office & with a straight face, I told him that if he didn't refund my money I'd find the lowest dirt-bags to sublet to- they'd mess the place up & it would take a long time to get them evicted. Guess who got paid promptly? :rofl: He actually apologized & admitted that's exactly what another tenant had just done to them, & he was trying to recoup their lost money from ME! :mad: I've been a homeowner ever since. I may have looked like someone he could pull this on, but he found out otherwise. :D

Ugh. My last apartment tried to say we caused 2k in damages ABOVE a 1.6k deposit.
Admitably, my dog was very good at finding one particular spot of carpet to muss... so they tried to make me pay for taking the 8+year old carpet out and recarpeting the whole thing. On top of saying that I caused water damage and leaking inside the wall with the shower like 2 feet away...when I had asked them multiple times about the consistently wet wood wall that I knew had been leaking from the neighbor side upstairs. =/
We were all so tired of the crap they kept trying to drag us through that I managed to threaten enough with court for replacing end of life carpet if they didn't just keep the deposit and stop harassing us all. They were hemorrhaging residents from that complex because of roach issues they couldn't resolve.

Searching for legal help is such a hassle. I hope that the threat is enough to get them to either drop off the finished product for you or refund you fully, Animallover

I’m so sorry you’re dealing with all this. Unfortunately some of those life lessons we learn come about this way. Once we had a dude take down a couple trees from the yard, and he needed to come back the next day to finish raising the tree line and repairing my favorite tree he destroyed in the process. My husband went ahead and paid him with the promise of returning the next day(not my style of business personally)…I imagine you can see where this is going.

We never saw the dude again. I thought the best of him for a couple days, and finally admitted to myself that we got the shaft. In our case we mostly got our moneys worth, so I let it go because I got strong vibes the dude was dangerous. The whole thing was a big pain, and I’m sorry this situation is occupying your mental load. Have you heard from the seller any more?

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

.....We never saw the dude again. I thought the best of him for a couple days, and finally admitted to myself that we got the shaft. In our case we mostly got our moneys worth, so I let it go because I got strong vibes the dude was dangerous....

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I'm so glad you listened to those vibes. Tree work is one of those dangerous occupations that not everyone wants- especially if they qualify for other work. I've hired a great many tree guys over the years, & I'm glad I never got vibes like that from any of them, though I found out later on that one of them WAS a real problem, well-known to local law enforcement (& he ended up in jail again), but still, the work he & his crew did for me was great. And it's always better to end such jobs on a positive note- you made a wise decision.

Anyway, I don't think that's what's going on with the OP's situation- but something's not right.

I apologize for not updating this thread sooner. I just had a crazy busy weekend and am also not feeling well.

Friday night we made an agreement to meet somewhere about an hour away from me on Sunday morning. I was running pretty late to meet him but he didn't really say anything about it and was very polite. The enclosure itself is actually pretty nice. It's very light weight but also very sturdy, plus it's already been siliconed inside on all the joints. If I feel up to it then I will try to go more in depth later and post some pictures.

Small claims court was an empty threat for me, $305 isn't worth whatever nightmare that might end up being for me lol. Mostly, I knew that the threat of an angry customer was worse than losing money for him because he has a very good reputation among keepers in my area (he's the main enclosure seller at reptile shows where I am), so someone sharing an unpleasant experience could be bad for him. Obviously I was never intending to just go and slander him and I only ever try to honestly recount my experiences with people and businesses, but obviously he didn't know that.

Anyways, would I buy an enclosure from him again? Maybe. If he had something I needed available at a show I was attending then yes I probably would buy. I'm happy with the quality of his work. However, I would never order online in advance again, especially if he would be unwilling to try doing a deposit vs paying in full.

Lesson learned I guess...

Glad it was settled. Often, a correctly worded notice to take legal action is all that required.