Rescue situation, newer keeper

Hi everyone. So, we took in this 5 year old boy from someone I knew and he’s in a bad way. He struggles with wobble and has some other issues right now.


We are already treating him for lots and lots of mites with reptile spray and a bath, but I need to know what this is. I was assuming it was scale rot and so I went ahead and treated it with anti microbial spray and neosporin.


He doesn’t have any fluid coming from his mouth and nose, but I think I see retained eye caps or he’s dehydrated.


I’m open to help. He’s small for a 5 year old snake, and we need to get his backside fixed.


Thanks all. I hope you can help me help this sweet fellow.
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Be careful with Neosporin, it can actually be harder on snakes but works well for lizards. Also make sure it's the type without pain killers as the pain killer can be toxic.

There's definitely some sore of damage there and I can't tell you why. His belly looks like nice and white, are there red open sores or streaks near the back problem? My concern would be a possible systemic infection that will need antibiotics.


I would consider giving him a comfortable warm bath. Consider using some betadine or chlorhexidine. I like to soak them in the warm water for a bit before soaking them in the diluted medicine to make sure they don't drink it.

Silver sulfa can sometimes be found otc and works great on wounds for snakes instead of Neosporin. Neosporin has oil that can damage the scales.

If he is a rescue and has issues with parasites and wobble I would consider a thorough vet check to make sure you aren't accidentally giving any medications that can stress him out or make him feel worse. He can be dehydrated and anemic from mites or sometimes mites can also spread disease

As far as size... He actually doesn't look too bad. Males do tend to stay smaller and he doesn't see too underweight? Just a gross living environment... With bugs and either dirty bedding, hazardous furniture or a burn to explain the back injury.

Vetericyn brand water-based ointment for reptile use is an option- available in some pet stores & online- for any wound care. (Better for snake skin than petroleum-jelly based Neosporin.) I was also thinking his back looks like it could be a burn- how was his former enclosure heated? If its a burn, use that "silver sulfadiazine" cream (aka "Silvadene")- that's the best thing for healing burns.

Hopefully the "wobble" is genetic in origin & not a symptom of illness. In case you need to find a vet: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

As you probably know, the mites can kill this or any snake- keep on those until you're sure they're gone. Besides that, they're thought to carry diseases.

The soaks to help get rid of mites should help with his hydration too, but if old eye-caps don't remove easily after a while, get vet help- eyes are delicate, it's hard to see what's really going on, & well-meaning people have accidentally blinded their snakes with aggressive eye-cap removal. That's not the most important thing to work on first anyway- getting rid of mites, & taking care of any injuries or infections, along with overall hydration & getting him to eat will help his overall health including his eye-caps.

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

Be careful with Neosporin, it can actually be harder on snakes but works well for lizards. Also make sure it's the type without pain killers as the pain killer can be toxic.

There's definitely some sore of damage there and I can't tell you why. His belly looks like nice and white, are there red open sores or streaks near the back problem? My concern would be a possible systemic infection that will need antibiotics.


I would consider giving him a comfortable warm bath. Consider using some betadine or chlorhexidine. I like to soak them in the warm water for a bit before soaking them in the diluted medicine to make sure they don't drink it.

Silver sulfa can sometimes be found otc and works great on wounds for snakes instead of Neosporin. Neosporin has oil that can damage the scales.

If he is a rescue and has issues with parasites and wobble I would consider a thorough vet check to make sure you aren't accidentally giving any medications that can stress him out or make him feel worse. He can be dehydrated and anemic from mites or sometimes mites can also spread disease

As far as size... He actually doesn't look too bad. Males do tend to stay smaller and he doesn't see too underweight? Just a gross living environment... With bugs and either dirty bedding, hazardous furniture or a burn to explain the back injury.

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So, regarding his back it’s really scaly with a few raised areas. The first thing I asked was if there was a heat lamp, because I was immediately thinking maybe a burn. But they didn’t have a heat lamp. So then I thought maybe he was scratching mites? But I couldn’t tell if there was some blistering. I didn’t see any red streaks, it’s mostly just crusty and rusty colored. But yes his belly looks ok. We soaked him for about 30 min today in some warm water, and I may again tomorrow as well. It was a lot of mites. But no— I don’t see any red weeping wounds. Noted on neosporin—I’ll lay off. I knew I had read on here where it was used but I didn’t known the controversy.

maybe my expectation of how large he should be and what he is are off. He’s about 2.5 feet and was kept in a 10 g his whole life. Right now I have him in a 20 long with a humid hide temporarily which isn’t ideal obviously, but I can clean it and monitor him easily. I’m going to set him up in a tub setup. He’s not too thin though. He’s just…stubby?

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Vetericyn brand water-based ointment for reptile use is an option- available in some pet stores & online- for any wound care. (Better for snake skin than petroleum-jelly based Neosporin.) I was also thinking his back looks like it could be a burn- how was his former enclosure heated? If its a burn, use that "silver sulfadiazine" cream (aka "Silvadene")- that's the best thing for healing burns.

Hopefully the "wobble" is genetic in origin & not a symptom of illness. In case you need to find a vet: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

As you probably know, the mites can kill this or any snake- keep on those until you're sure they're gone. Besides that, they're thought to carry diseases.

The soaks to help get rid of mites should help with his hydration too, but if old eye-caps don't remove easily after a while, get vet help- eyes are delicate, it's hard to see what's really going on, & well-meaning people have accidentally blinded their snakes with aggressive eye-cap removal. That's not the most important thing to work on first anyway- getting rid of mites, & taking care of any injuries or infections, along with overall hydration & getting him to eat will help his overall health including his eye-caps.

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so with the wobble, he is a spider cinnamon banana morph. If I’m not mistaking I think both spider and cinnamon can cause wobble, and according to the previous owner he came that way from the breeder. So hopefully any issues with that are strictly that spider morph.

as for previous living, he lived in a 10 gal for 5 years and then when the heat pad went out was housed with a female for a few months in a 40 until he came to us.

One thing: where do these things fall on the hierarchy? No handling, treatment, feeding.

the original plan was to leave him alone a couple weeks and get a few meals down him before handling him. But I feel like that sort of went out the door with the mites. His last meal was supposedly 2 weeks ago, so my thought was treat first, but didn’t know whether to offer food after a week of mite treatment.

I wanted him to acclimate but I feel like the other health concerns are more pressing and override typical protocol.

in his case, the health issues WLL take priority. You will need to handle him to get those soaks and treatments going. And cage cleanings! Clean the cage as often as you need too. Only paper towels and simple hides for now until the mites are gone. So don't worry as much on handling for the moment...but do keep it to a minimum. no handling outside of the soaks and applying the medication. His body condition overall looks pretty good, so I would wait at least a week to try feeding him. Get him healing before you try feeding him.

If he was eating small prey items before, don't try and feed him anything too large too quickly. You won't want him regurging on top of the other issues. If he's really fussy about food and is mostly healed? That will be when you go to the no handling mode to let him settle in and get less stress.

RE: wobble morphs, the spider gene can indeed be the cause of the wobble right now. Stress will make it worse. The downside is, parasites and infection can also make any snake wobble. Hopefully once he's settled in and healthy, it will be less noticeable. My 2 with spider won't noticeably wobble unless I really stress them out.
Champagne is the other gene that can cause wobble you may be thinking of. Cinnamon can cause kinking or duck billing on the face in the super form, but not known to cause wobble.

Re: size, it really just depends on the snake. Some males do stay more petite. My oldest male is a monster, larger than most females I've seen and weighs in at 2400 when he's not fasting. Another male I have is just a tad larger than yours looks at 3 years. BPs do tend to like smaller spaces sometimes so he may do well for life in a 20 gallon. You'll need to see how he reacts in a larger enclosure. If he seems stressed you can try adding more décor and hides in a larger enclosure, but that's when he's healthy and you know his habits and he's eating well.
One of my girls is a tub only snake (my older spider actually). She will perch up high in a striking pose and just strike at anything she sees moving. I can't keep her in a glass front enclosure. One will wander out and about and eat great in a glass front... another will only peek out of the hide when food day is coming. Each snake can have their own quirks.

Would vetericyn plus spray for poultry be ok to use on his back? It says on the back that it is safe for all animal species.I have that on hand in my hen first aid kit.

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Would vetericyn plus spray for poultry be ok to use on his back? It says on the back that it is safe for all animal species.

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If you trust the labeling & are reading correctly, it should be- but I'm not seeing the label so leave me out of this decision. ;) If any doubt, call your vet & ask, or call the company & ask- that's what I would personally do. I really prefer to use products labeled for reptile use, since cold blooded animals are often harmed by products (medications) designed for warm-blooded creatures that metabolize things very differently.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

If you trust the labeling & are reading correctly, it should be- but I'm not seeing the label so leave me out of this decision. ;) If any doubt, call your vet & ask, or call the company & ask- that's what I would personally do. I really prefer to use products labeled for reptile use, since cold blooded animals are often harmed by products (medications) designed for warm-blooded creatures that metabolize things very differently.

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while waiting to see what other did, I checked the labels. Both vetericyn plus for poultry and for reptiles have identical concentrations of the active ingredients and the inactive ingredients are also the same. Just in case anyone is wondering.

My curiosity got the better of me so I searched "vetericyn plus spray for poultry" & found the active ingredient is hypochlorous acid. Then searched that- there's multiple links for using that- including this one: https://www.rxlist.com/alevicyn_hypochlorous_acid_topical/drugs-condition.htm The following is an excerpt: & just between you & me, "burning & stinging to the application site" would NOT make me want to use it on my snake. ;) I'd get some Silvadene cream, personally.


WHAT IS HYPOCHLOROUS ACID TOPICAL AND HOW DOES IT WORK?

Hypochlorous Acid Topical is a prescription medication used for the treatment of pruritus and cleaning and debriding wounds.

• Hypochlorous Acid Topical is available under the following different brand names: Alevicyn

WHAT ARE SIDE EFFECTS ASSOCIATED WITH USING HYPOCHLOROUS ACID TOPICAL?

Common side effects of Hypochlorous Acid Topical include:

• temporary burning or stinging to the application site

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

while waiting to see what other did, I checked the labels. Both vetericyn plus for poultry and for reptiles have identical concentrations of the active ingredients and the inactive ingredients are also the same. Just in case anyone is wondering.

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:gj: Good to know- I'm sure Vetericyn for poultry is far more likely to be carried in local feed stores than the version for snakes, lol.

I love this forum. There’s a lot of great, quick knowledge here. Thank you for all who have commented to help with Sunny.

I wanted to add a closer shot of his back for everyone.

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If I had a herp with a mystery condition especially one that I didn't know the cause of, I'd get it to a vet ASAP. They're good at seeing medically significant things that hobby keepers looking at photos can't.

Sure, that’s fair. We just got him yesterday, and it’s likely that my reptile vet will be about 3 weeks out. They’re very hard to get into, and the only one we have in town. I’ll give them a call when they open on Monday. I’m just dealing with the holding pattern.

Bit of an update here: my vet can’t get to him for a couple weeks so we are doing the Betadine bath every few days. I also gave him an electrolyte bath because he is so dehydrated his eyes are crinkly and he’s saggy/wrinkled. I’m waiting on some silvadine cream and in the mean time using some vetericyn to help his back. After the soaks, he’s just losing dry skin like confetti in individual flakes.

Unfortunately today a couple brown scales actually came off. Like…the scales. Exposing the skin underneath. I called my vet back, and even though he can’t get in, they want to get him on antibiotics asap.

no more live mites at the moment, but as we did in the past, mite treatment will
continue past 30 days.

Could this be the beginning of slipped skin disease? It's caused by a vitamin deficiency and it usually shows up in neglected snakes. Here a long thread on it: EMERGENCY | My Ball Python's Scales Just Split.

I looked over this yesterday. I’ll go give it some more attention and see.

Man I really hope not…that seems really involved and awful for him.

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Man I really hope not…that seems really involved and awful for him.

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Your bp doesn't seem thin, so I wouldn't ordinarily think he has a disease caused by a vitamin deficiency, but something is causing his scales to fall off and neither a burn nor scale rot seems to fit. If your vet doesn't diagnose the cause right off the bat, maybe, you should ask if it could be due to a vitamin deficiency. Just a suggestion.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Your bp doesn't seem thin, so I wouldn't ordinarily think he has a disease caused by a vitamin deficiency, but something is causing his scales to fall off and neither a burn nor scale rot seems to fit. If your vet doesn't diagnose the cause right off the bat, maybe, you should ask if it could be due to a vitamin deficiency. Just a suggestion.

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yeah he’s not super thin…crackly dry. But not too thin. Any chance that untreated mites could have damaged him that badly? He had a LOT.

Second: I would be inclined unless it would be detrimental to load some vitamins in his food proactively. If it’s water soluble and he gets rid of what he doesn’t need, that is. Is there a recommendation on brand?

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

So, regarding his back it’s really scaly with a few raised areas. The first thing I asked was if there was a heat lamp, because I was immediately thinking maybe a burn. But they didn’t have a heat lamp...

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Just keep in mind that when people give up their unhealthy pets to others, they don't always tell the truth about how the animal "got that way". :rolleyes: I've heard a few tall tales myself. I'd personally still consider this might be a burn. ;) I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it still could be.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Just keep in mind that when people give up their unhealthy pets to others, they don't always tell the truth about how the animal "got that way". :rolleyes: I've heard a few tall tales myself. I'd personally still consider this might be a burn. ;) I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it still could be.

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I had a theory on this: I don’t know that this guy used a thermostat and Sunny has wobble
of the corkscrew variety. (He had since he was bought from the breeder 5 years ago). I wondered if just maybe he pretzeled himself kind of upside down on the heat pad and burned himself.

but… it doesn’t explain the random brown dead looking scale here or there either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Second: I would be inclined unless it would be detrimental to load some vitamins in his food proactively. If it’s water soluble and he gets rid of what he doesn’t need, that is. Is there a recommendation on brand?

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I wouldn't treat with with vitamin supplements without a vet's approval. Snakes usually get all the vitamins they need from their prey. Adding vitamins without direction might cause other problems.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I wouldn't treat with with vitamin supplements without a vet's approval. Snakes usually get all the vitamins they need from their prey. Adding vitamins without direction might cause other problems.

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I agree! If anything, I've seen some vets give B-vitamins- but other vitamins in excess can be harmful (toxic).

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Unfortunately today a couple brown scales actually came off. Like…the scales. Exposing the skin underneath.

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If you haven't already, you should also reconsider putting him on paper towels to keep the newly exposed skin clean.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

I agree! If anything, I've seen some vets give B-vitamins- but other vitamins in excess can be harmful (toxic).

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I wouldn't treat with with vitamin supplements without a vet's approval. Snakes usually get all the vitamins they need from their prey. Adding vitamins without direction might cause other problems.

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Got it. This was the spot where I had also applied neosporin before knowing about silver sulfa. If the scale health was already poor, is it possible it totally loosened the worst of the damaged scales?

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Got it. This was the spot where I had also applied neosporin before knowing about silver sulfa. If the scale health was already poor, is it possible it totally loosened the worst of the damaged scales?

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Yes- Neosporin is known for causing scales to "de-laminate" (for lack of a better term). A little bit used briefly for a small wound isn't usually a problem, but with scales that are already damaged, I would think that may have made it worse.

Either way, with scales damaged as these are, I'm not surprised that a few have come off & left spots without scales- they'll likely stay that way, as small scars. Make sure there's no skin breaks for infection to enter, now & in the future (ie. those spots without scales will be less protected & therefore more vulnerable to injury).

You're getting good advice, so I don't want to overwhelm you with another voice. I did want to chime in on a couple of significant points, though. For what it's worth I was raised in a family of veterinarians and worked my way through undergrad and grad school as a vet tech in exotics and laboratory settings.

The scale loss you are seeing is most likely due to the fact that this snake had a severe infestation of mites (based on your observations). This could also account for the brown patches and raised/rough scales, though these may also be signs of scale rot. I'd be a little surprised to see scale rot, just because this snake was not well-hydrated. Snakes dealing with mite infestations or injuries to their skin will expend a lot of energy to self-correct these problems via frequent sheds and even dropping damaged scales. This is part of the healing process.

I really want to stress that what you are seeing so far is not congruent with the 'slipped skin disease' caused by chronic vitamin deficiency. Believe me, you'd know if this snake had that and it'd be horrible. Be glad you aren't dealing with it. In the meantime, please don't give vitamin supplements, as this can create more problems than it causes for a snake that doesn't actually need them. When you do offer food, just be sure it's whole rodents or chicks that have been themselves fed high-quality food.

Try not to fret too much about a few scales dropping off. It's true that anything oil-based, including antibiotic ointments, can cause scale damage - but this is typically only seen after frequent use over a long-ish span of time. This snake's body is trying to self-correct after dehydration and mites, so I would expect to see scale loss and even frequent sheds for awhile. Good basic husbandry is going to resolve most of the issues you are experiencing.

Snakes with wobble respond very well to some pretty simple adjustments in husbandry that can decrease or eliminate wobble episodes, but right now the priority is stabilizing and treatment. If you are interested later, though, I am glad to discuss details of wobble husbandry with you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

I had a theory on this: I don’t know that this guy used a thermostat and Sunny has wobble
of the corkscrew variety. (He had since he was bought from the breeder 5 years ago). I wondered if just maybe he pretzeled himself kind of upside down on the heat pad and burned himself.

but… it doesn’t explain the random brown dead looking scale here or there either.

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Just to be clear, excessive heat (from not using a t-stat) can cause not only burns to the skin, but even neurological damage (including wobbles). Not saying that's what happened- & you'll never know for sure- with a rescue, all you can do is go forward, & do what you can for the snake. I've personally taken in rescues from inexperienced keepers who honestly never understood much less admitted what they did wrong. It hardly matters- it's your snake now to make the best of.

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

You're getting good advice, so I don't want to overwhelm you with another voice. I did want to chime in on a couple of significant points, though. For what it's worth I was raised in a family of veterinarians and worked my way through undergrad and grad school as a vet tech in exotics and laboratory settings.

The scale loss you are seeing is most likely due to the fact that this snake had a severe infestation of mites (based on your observations). This could also account for the brown patches and raised/rough scales, though these may also be signs of scale rot. I'd be a little surprised to see scale rot, just because this snake was not well-hydrated. Snakes dealing with mite infestations or injuries to their skin will expend a lot of energy to self-correct these problems via frequent sheds and even dropping damaged scales. This is part of the healing process.

I really want to stress that what you are seeing so far is not congruent with the 'slipped skin disease' caused by chronic vitamin deficiency. Believe me, you'd know if this snake had that and it'd be horrible. Be glad you aren't dealing with it. In the meantime, please don't give vitamin supplements, as this can create more problems than it causes for a snake that doesn't actually need them. When you do offer food, just be sure it's whole rodents or chicks that have been themselves fed high-quality food.

Try not to fret too much about a few scales dropping off. It's true that anything oil-based, including antibiotic ointments, can cause scale damage - but this is typically only seen after frequent use over a long-ish span of time. This snake's body is trying to self-correct after dehydration and mites, so I would expect to see scale loss and even frequent sheds for awhile. Good basic husbandry is going to resolve most of the issues you are experiencing.

Snakes with wobble respond very well to some pretty simple adjustments in husbandry that can decrease or eliminate wobble episodes, but right now the priority is stabilizing and treatment. If you are interested later, though, I am glad to discuss details of wobble husbandry with you.

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Thank you for this. We have only been keeping reptiles, ball pythons specifically, since September of 2022 when my son came home from repticon with his personal BP. So, we have learned a lot in a short time, but haven’t had to go down this road yet. The new fellow we acquired had a little more going on than I expected, and found out minutes before he was being dropped off. The two little scales dropping off and exposing the next white layer concerned be a good bit. I’d love to hear your thoughts on diminishing his wobble symptoms, especially since his is pretty bad and hard to watch. Please feel free to private message me.

To all, I value everything you’ve all suggested and advised I look into. Thank you for the time you’ve all spent responding to my questions and your instruction. I will update the thread as we continue through the journey for everyone interested.

Some ground zero references. Maybe someone in the future can benefit from this thread and the outcomes. Thought they may help. He’s about 5, and weighs 475 grams.

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Re: slipped skin

Definitely not what I think is going on with this snake. I actually went back to the original image to double check that when you mentioned the scales coming off... The scales are much too large and normally placed. At least from my experiences with it....but I mostly saw it in very young snakes.

The snakes I had seen with chronic malnutrition all have the same look to them, skinny, super dehydrated appearance and heavy wrinkling around the neck where the looser folds are. The scales will be much smaller in comparison to a healthy snake and the spaces between the scales are very noticeable. I don't see this in the photos you presented.
The skin will sometimes crisp up and look like someone dribbled super glue on it before it will crack and expose the skin underneath. It's never just one or two scales, it will be a large gash. Handling the snake can make it worse as the pressure on the skin can cause cracks and seepage of fluid elsewhere that dries into that super glue look. Sometimes before the cracks you might see little bubbles here and there under the skin before it cracks. The skin feels like rough single ply tissue paper.

One or two scales falling off and exposing white skin definitely sounds more like a healing burn or the excessive mites. The area under one scale being damaged enough and not the whole area like you would see in a systemic example like slipped skin from malnutrition

Hope that helps as well!

What did you mean by Ground Zero photos? Just the name for his current habitat and the mite extermination zone? Lol

Are these photos more recent than the original post? I only ask cause he looks a bit more dehydrated and I feel like I'm seeing more red around his scales... If he's about to shed than that's probably why though.

If not... I would definitely be worried about septicemia and crossing my fingers the vet can see him soon.

Another possibility for the injury as well... I don't know why we all didn't think of it sooner... Maybe the mite concern made it slip my mind. It could be a gnarly rodent bite that had abscessed/healed over badly as well. Usually snakes develop more like a thick cyst material in an infection, but if it was too large of a rodent and some deeper wounds that can be why it looks a bit more burn like. So that could be why if the previous owner had been feeding live

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Originally Posted by Armiyana

What did you mean by Ground Zero photos? Just the name for his current habitat and the mite extermination zone? Lol

Are these photos more recent than the original post? I only ask cause he looks a bit more dehydrated and I feel like I'm seeing more red around his scales... If he's about to shed than that's probably why though.

If not... I would definitely be worried about septicemia and crossing my fingers the vet can see him soon.

Another possibility for the injury as well... I don't know why we all didn't think of it sooner... Maybe the mite concern made it slip my mind. It could be a gnarly rodent bite that had abscessed/healed over badly as well. Usually snakes develop more like a thick cyst material in an infection, but if it was too large of a rodent and some deeper wounds that can be why it looks a bit more burn like. So that could be why if the previous owner had been feeding live

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Ground zero—just from the bottom of his journey heading upward. But I would be good calling his little
enclosure that haha.

Re more dehydrated: honestly I think how I had him stretched out in the beginning photos helped disguise a little bit of his wrinkles. When I picked him up when he first arrived, he was so dry he crackled and his scales got stuck on my shirt.

re red: I did give him a betadine bath today. I wonder if that stained him? I’m not noticing any more red areas than he had to start with though. And I’ve been really watching this fellow close.

It could be the betadine! It should be like a light tea color for ideal soak use, you can use a slightly more concentrated dab with a cotton ball for the wound areas.

I'm really glad he's in such good hands now. ♥
Keep up the good work!

For what it's worth I am not seeing anything that triggers immediate concern in those photos - but of course a lot can be missed in photos. His body condition doesn't look bad at all, though he definitely has that 'crinkly' look of a snake that needs better hydration. Re: his wobble - hopefully husbandry adjustments can help significantly decrease wobble episodes over time. For now I am not surprised you are seeing it, as stress is a key factor there.

I'll just post a list here of the husbandry adjustments that can be made for snakes with wobble in case anyone else would find the info helpful. I developed it as a guide for another group and had it reviewed by reptile veterinarians working in rescue facilities with Royal and Jaguar Jungle Carpet pythons with severe wobble.

Minimize sources of possible stress: set the enclosure up in a room that isn't exposed to constant family activity, loud television or music, bright lights, or high levels of direct sunlight.

Be very sensitive to your snake's body language and behavior when handling - as soon as you notice any signs of stress or indications that the snake wants to move away from you, hide, or has just had enough, then return them to their enclosure.

Handling is fine, but it's best in general to keep excitement minimal by avoiding 'outings' to unfamiliar places, limiting handling to brief periods of time if your snake shows any signs of stress, and keeping outdoor excursions to enjoy grass, etc. pretty short (10-15 minutes or so). Try to minimize fast movements or chaos around them (such as rambunctious little kids). A quiet room and slow movements helps.

Don't ever let your snake overheat. Be cautious about enclosure placement near windows; the 'greenhouse effect' of sunlight streaming through glass can significantly increase temps in the enclosure.

There is research indicating that snakes with wobble may do better when kept at slightly cooler temperatures. Do NOT chill your snake, but if they have a visible wobble, it may help to drop the temperature gradient in their enclosure by a couple of degrees (as in 2-3 degrees, not a 10-degree drop).

Provide sturdy enclosure furnishings - heavy, low branches and/or a rock or two, a water bowl that can't easily be pushed around, etc. This will give your snake something to brace against if they are wobbling and disoriented.
Related to the previous tip about sturdy enclosure furnishings: when you clean the enclosure, put furnishings back in the same spots so that your snake can always rely on their locations.

Snakes with wobble may show the behavior when they try to process visual information on the vertical plane - in other words, they can have an episode if there is motion above them or they try to focus on objects high above them. Some snakes with wobble have episodes when they perceive even slight movement above their heads. Avoid keeping them in tall enclosures, and/or provide things like networks of branches or vines overhead to cut down on overhead visual stimulation.

Keepers often observe a first wobble episode during feeding, because snakes become excited at feeding time. Wobble may cause them to strike and miss. In general, feeding frozen/thawed is best for them, as this will decrease the frustration or stress of missed strikes with a live feeder. If feeding frozen/thawed, don't dangle the rodent by the tail in front of the snake, and don't jiggle it. Use your tongs to hold the rodent by the back and present it in more of a natural posture or simply hold it at ground level in front of the snake. This gives your snake better opportunities for a successful strike.

Wobble is often associated with weakened/less developed musculature around the snake's head and neck. Help your wobbly snake develop strength and coordination by providing opportunities for safe exercise - low climbing options within the enclosure, and safe climbing and exploring options outside of the enclosure.

Even snakes with significant wobble will benefit from opportunities to exercise and explore. Instead of branches that require them to grip and balance, you can offer them basking shelves and ramps. Black Box Cages, which makes PVC enclosures, also makes basking shelves that you can add to an enclosure. Shelves and ramps can easily be made at home from PVC, and ladders made for birds can also be used if they are secured.

If there are climbing options in the enclosure, be sure there's a good thick layer of sphagnum moss or soft substrate beneath in the event of a fall.

Your wobbly snake is just as intelligent and curious as any other snake, so don't deprive them of enclosures with plenty of ground space, enrichment and even climbing opportunities in your efforts to protect them!

Every snake is different, so learn your snake's typical behavior and response patterns. They may thrive in a larger enclosure, or you may need to downsize enclosure size or height to reduce stress.

If you are able to provide a PVC enclosure, this is likely an ideal choice because of the options for lower height, ease of maintaining appropriate temperatures, low reflection of light, and the fact that all sides but the front are enclosed, thus keeping potential visual stressors minimal.

Your wobbly snake's needs (enclosure type or size, enrichment type or frequency, feeding strategy, etc.) may change over time, so monitor them and be prepared to make changes as needed.

Thank you, all, to the 1000th power. We will digest all this, get him to the vet asap, and do our very best to do right by this animal.

I don’t think I can afford a PVC enclosure at this time, but I do think I can modify an appropriate locking bin to give him constant humidity requirements. I can figure out how to block up
3 sides.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

Thank you, all, to the 1000th power. We will digest all this, get him to the vet asap, and do our very best to do right by this animal.

I don’t think I can afford a PVC enclosure at this time, but I do think I can modify an appropriate locking bin to give him constant humidity requirements. I can figure out how to block up
3 sides.

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Black posterboard from a dollar store taped to the outside walls works well for blocking out sides.

I have to say…as a person who has stared at this snakes back for 5 whole days, I kind of feel like the picture on the right is showing some improvement. The picture on the left was when he was 30 seconds in my house. The right is before his soak today. Could be wishful thinking, but I THINK I’m seeing improvement.
https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...97-B61-EA0.jpg

I see improvement too. Hang in there. With their slower metabolisms snakes can take a long time to heal, but they are incredibly resilient and will often bounce back from awful situations if we just give them half a chance. I think your guy has at least a good foundation based on overall body condition, so this is all hopeful.

I have no problem hanging in there for the long haul with him. Moving the right direction was all I needed to see. Slow progress is a-ok with me—it’s still progress.

How long does it take for a ball Python to inflate after being so dehydrated? Even after several baths with electrolytes he’s still saggy. Does a snake on the slightly thin side also appear saggy? It’s worth noting that after each bath he blows scales like confetti. Just loads of shed in individual pieces, especially over that nasty place on his back. I’m keeping his enclosure at 85% humidity if he’s possibly in shed. 90F hot spot that he’s refusing to leave. (Editing due to the thought that spiders do better in cooler temps, but not sure bc if there’s a respiratory infection they say to bump UP the temp. I opted for up) Hand for reference on the snek confetti. Is there more I can do to help him plump up, or do less of? Or is this a time game?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2-CCF9-D34.jpg

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

How long does it take for a ball Python to inflate after being so dehydrated? Even after several baths with electrolytes he’s still saggy. Does a snake on the slightly thin side also appear saggy? It’s worth noting that after each bath he blows scales like confetti. Just loads of shed in individual pieces, especially over that nasty place on his back. I’m keeping his enclosure at 85% humidity if he’s possibly in shed. 90F hot spot that he’s refusing to leave. (Editing due to the thought that spiders do better in cooler temps, but not sure bc if there’s a respiratory infection they say to bump UP the temp. I opted for up) Hand for reference on the snek confetti. Is there more I can do to help him plump up, or do less of? Or is this a time game?

https://ball-pythons.net/forums/cach...2-CCF9-D34.jpg

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It's a time game- it takes lots of time for a starved snake to regain lost weight, & for a dehydrated snake to fully regain what they lost. DO NOT feed too much, as that will backfire- he needs small meals roughly once a week unless in shed- then I'd suggest skipping food even if he's willing to eat while "blue" as it will likely make his shed even more difficult. It will be a while before you really see improvement, but if you compare his current photos to where he is in about a year, you should see real progress. Be very patient. ;)

Ok. I can do that. I just wanted to be sure that if I was supposed to see large changes, I was. I can do baby steps. (What about Bob anyone? Lol).

Unless advised otherwise, I think I’m going to give him a day or two or no handling. We marked a week and I tried to give him a FT rat pup of Noodles’. He struck and wrapped it up but let it go after a minute and decided he was done, even with it being warmed up really good. If its safe to wait I’ll try again in about 5 days. He ate about 3 weeks ago. He’s used to a small rat or large mouse, and he will take either, so maybe the size of it was a picky point. Or you know. General stress from the literal struggle hes going through. Don’t know if he’s dry or shedding or both. Anyway. I’m blathering. I’ll post updates along and along.

So, tomorrow I will offer him another meal. He hasn’t been handled since last offer. If he chooses not to eat again, exactly how long can he go on an eating strike before it becomes emergent? We only ever deal with our juvenile who acts like he’s starving every time we walk into the room.

Think positive, do everything you can to get him fed. No way I or anyone can tell you "how long he can go without eating"- if only I could. ;)

It’s getting close to a month. 😐 he’s stressing me out. He better eat. I don’t deserve to be this worked up. 😂

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Originally Posted by GuardianHunter

It’s getting close to a month. 😐 he’s stressing me out. He better eat. I don’t deserve to be this worked up. 😂

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I know you are worried and I totally get it. Reality check: He's five years old with a questionable-to-neglectful-to-abusive background. You rescued him only recently. His body condition isn't bad at all (he's not starving). It'll be great if he eats tomorrow but he may not eat for weeks or even a few months. Just keep it up with the good husbandry and any treatment he requires in the meantime.