waking up my snake

hello!

I have a question, how you do wake up your snake without startling it?

We have have to take out my BP to feed him, clean up his tank a little, or for just handling him.
And he is always in his hide. well he should be from what i know of. he hasn’t come out in about 4-5 days, other than me taking him out two days ago.
But anyway, i don’t know how to get him out without picking it up from on top of him, but that startles him.
i feel like we shouldn’t do that because it could cause him stress that he doesn’t need. just being abruptly woken up like that.

i have seen that people stroke their snake to let them know that they aren’t a predator, and that they are going to be taken out.
but his hide is much to big for his size. and the hole is small, so i would still have to lift it up slightly. and i tried it today, and he didn’t wake up.

i have also seen that you can wake them up with smells. A smell that i have seen that people say work is fish. so i put some in, in an open bowl, and nothing happened. he didn’t wake up and it didn’t even look like he could smell it.
i’m also not really sure how that works, because they use their tongue for smelling, but when they are sleeping their tongue is in their mouth.

sorry for rambling

A pic of your enclosure layout would help us advise you. This thread explains how to post pics: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures.

is it possible for me to post it in this thread? and if is i can’t find it other than a url

it is not working, the only way i can add a photo now is to put it in a different thread or gallery

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Originally Posted by London

is it possible for me to post it in this thread? and if is i can’t find it other than a url

it is not working, the only way i can add a photo now is to put it in a different thread or gallery

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I just upload my photo to Imgur and drag and drop it into the post from there.

i gently stroke thems with my hooks, then i switch to doing it with my hands

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I just upload my photo to Imgur and drag and drop it into the post from there.

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thank you, here’s the link if that’s what you meant

https://imgur.com/a/2XRJy9S

it’s very simple for now, but we are planning on adding more to it soon, his hide is very bug for him, usually he just curls up into a ball in the back of it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by London

I have a question, how you do wake up your snake without startling it?

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You need to make your ball python feel more secure in his enclosure. There are a couple things you can do. First, leave him alone. Ball pythons need time to adjust to their new home. We suggest you wait until he's taken three meals from you before you handle him. When you do start handling him, start with short sessions and slowly build up to longer ones.

Second, you need to make some adjustments to your enclosure. Those glass sides have him feeling awfully exposed. Cover them. I hear foam poster board works well for this. If you haven't already, cover the top too. Some use tin foil. Others use aluminum tape. Use something that won't catch fire from the heat lamp. Speaking of the heat lamp, it's too bright. Replace it with a ceramic heat emitter or a deep heat projector. They give heat without light.

These things should make your ball python feel more secure. In time, you won't need to grab him out of his hide. He'll come out on his own.

I never wake up my snakes, reach into their enclosures to handle them, or take them out of their hides unless it's an emergency. Doing so is called 'flooding' (a term used in behavioral science) and it doesn't build a trusting relationship with them.

You're right, and you made an excellent observation that some of your current practices are stressful for your snake - staying in the hide all of the time indicates this. I use a behavioral technique called choice based handling that has been used with multiple species including reptiles - it allows you and your snake to gradually develop a trusting relationship in a fear-free manner. Royal/ball pythons may tolerate being disturbed or picked up because these snakes tend to be on the shy end of the temperament spectrum, we are bigger than they are, and when we handle them just because we decide it's time to do so they can't do much about it.

But their hide should be their safe space. I might lift the edge of a hide very quickly to take a peek and do a fast wellness check but I'd never lift a hide and then pick the snake up unless, as mentioned, it's an emergency where they need to be evacuated.

I've used choice-based handling with all of my snakes, including some very shy and defensive individuals, and have consistently had excellent results. Using this has helped to calm my snakes and they will typically let me know when they are interested in interacting or coming out to explore rather than just staying in their hides.

As a side note - it sounds like you take your snake out of their enclosure to feed them? There's no need to do that - it's an old-school technique based on misunderstanding of snakes' feeding response. Just feed them in their own enclosure.

If you're interested in choice-based handling I will be glad to share resources with you.

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

As a side note - it sounds like you take your snake out of their enclosure to feed them? There's no need to do that - it's an old-school technique based on misunderstanding of snakes' feeding response. Just feed them in their own enclosure.

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I agree 100%. Feeding outside of the enclosure is not a safe or helpful practice.

Secondly, and in addition to good advice already given on the your enclosure, it should have at least two snug hides. One on the warm side and one on the cool side. You snake should never have to choice safety over thermoregulating. Even if the enclosure is small, I assume so is your BP. You should be looking at hides that are tight around your BP.

Here are some good examples of easy to clean and inexpensive hides.

https://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

I also recommend using water bowls that aren't pourers and jagged. They are difficult to clean. Look into something like this: https://www.reptilebasics.com/small-water-bowl

They come in different sizes, but that's probably a good size for a young BP in a small enclosure.

For what's worth, I like reptile basics, but you can get the above in many places. I have no affiliation with them, I just like their offerings.

Finally, on handling and waking a snake up.

1. Don't handle the day of or 1-2 days after feeding.

2. There are times when you need to get your snake out. Cleaning the tank, changing water, etc. Inevitably you will wake them up, especially if during the day. Not every time, but sometimes. Many snakes will not come out and explore. My boas and carpet python are often out and about, but also sleeping sometimes. Usually opening the tank wakes them up, but not always. Further, BP's are almost always hiding, it's what they do. My BP does it a lot. So do my corn snakes if it's during the day.

My thoughts are different than the above. When you need to get your snake out, or even want to (although I wouldn't encourage over handling or over bothering), there are ways to do it that limit the stress not he snake.

I hook train all my snakes that are shy or strong feeders. That means if out and about, I tap them with the handle of the hook to let them know they are going to be picked up. This also works if the snake is sleeping. I do not make this a practice, but a soiled tank needs to be cleaned, etc. If not out and about, and in a hide, I like to gently move the hide a little bit, to let them know I am there. Sometimes they come out, sometimes they don't. Depending on the snake, I will then gently life the hide and see what they are up to. Then I will gently tap, then pick up. IMO - many snakes will naturally hide and you don't want to destroy trust. However, you don't have to by being respectful and gentle with handling and removing them. I wouldn't just reach in and grab a snake, but the hook lets them know they are going to be coming out. It also gives them time to wake up and understand what's going happen. To me, this enhances routine and trust.

I do not do this daily. However, when a tank needs to be cleaned or water changed, etc. I do this. I think a lot has to do with approach and how much trust you already have with your snake. Once trust is built, it's less of an issue.

Ultimately, the choice is yours. Weight the options and you snake and see what works best for both of you.

Any questions on hook training, or anything else, just ask.

Good luck and keep us posted.

EDIT: I just saw your naming thread. If your snake has only been with you a week. NO HANDLING AT ALL. Only remove to clean the tank, etc. Try to clean and change water, etc. all at once so you don't disturb your snake more than you have to.

Do not handle your snake until he/she has eaten 3 consecutive meals for you. Then gentle handling briefly (3-5 minutes max) 2X a week, then 3X for a little longer, etc. I recommend not handling a BP more than 3X a week. They are shy creatures.

It's a lot of advice. I know. We don't mean to stress you out. That wouldn't be good either. Consider the advice you've been given and make the changes you agree when you are able to do so. We're all rooting for your success, and we're happy to answer any follow up questions you may have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

I never wake up my snakes, reach into their enclosures to handle them, or take them out of their hides unless it's an emergency. Doing so is called 'flooding' (a term used in behavioral science) and it doesn't build a trusting relationship with them.

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i disagree - i don’t mean to sound uncharitable but i think there is a distinction to be made between say, for example, a 10 year old reaching into to rustle out their beloved BP and respondent conditioning or “flooding” i.e. an intentional behavioral modification process via the consistent exposure to (strategic) stimuli - so i would argue, re: socialization of reptiles/snakes, this can be extremely effective and in some cases, be critically important to the ownership of particular snake groups and the keeping thereof

you know, like with corn snakes or some other sort of small colubrid snake species, for example, things like tap training and exposure exercises may not be something that would be effective or you know, needed and there is probably a better method by which to socialize those snakes

however! on the opposite side of the spectrum, those techniques are critically important to the *safe* keeping, socialization, handling, etc of large constrictor snakes like Burms, Retics, Anas, Afrocks, etc much in the same way that socialization, training, etc is essential to the keeping, training, handling, etc of big dog breeds

this does not mean however that you should be disrespectful (not respecting their hide as their personal private space and more broadly, the enclosure as personal territory) or that such techniques would be transgressive and so on - it can be a simple as opening the enclosure and gentler touching the snake with the hook for 1 minute and then closing the enclosure, and consistently doing this while increasing the duration until a point is reached when you can start doing this with your hand - then you could move to picking them up and staying stationary for 1 min, etc

again, may differ between species and there’s more than one way to skin a cat but for me and my keeping i think it’s been tremendously important to establish this as early as possible - it’s going to be v important safety to wise that my Burms and Afrocks are familiar/comfortable with hooks, my hands, the familiarity of my heart beats rhythm, of moving them around, handling, etc

which of course this thread is about BPs, so it’s a little different than the above in a way so this was more of a tangential comment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homebody

You need to make your ball python feel more secure in his enclosure. There are a couple things you can do. First, leave him alone. Ball pythons need time to adjust to their new home. We suggest you wait until he's taken three meals from you before you handle him. When you do start handling him, start with short sessions and slowly build up to longer ones.

Second, you need to make some adjustments to your enclosure. Those glass sides have him feeling awfully exposed. Cover them. I hear foam poster board works well for this. If you haven't already, cover the top too. Some use tin foil. Others use aluminum tape. Use something that won't catch fire from the heat lamp. Speaking of the heat lamp, it's too bright. Replace it with a ceramic heat emitter or a deep heat projector. They give heat without light.

These things should make your ball python feel more secure. In time, you won't need to grab him out of his hide. He'll come out on his own.

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thank you for the handling advice, and the enclosure adjustment section.

about the sides being covered, is it fine if it is just white, or does it have to look as though he is out side.
we were actually just talking about getting a new one without light, so i will look for the bulb, thank you


i don’t mean for that to sound like i don’t appreciate the rest of your replies.
thank all of you for your advice, i will be sure to change things with what all of you have said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by London

about the sides being covered, is it fine if it is just white, or does it have to look as though he is out side.
we were actually just talking about getting a new one without light, so i will look for the bulb, thank you

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I'd be concerned that the white sides would reflect the light making the enclosure even brighter. So, use something darker. Foam poster board will also insulate your enclosure helping you to maintain the ambient temperature. If you're not having any trouble maintaining the ambient temp, you could use construction paper.