BP Heating Trouble

I recently bought a juvenile BP and am super excited to bring him home. Currently the breeder is holding onto him until I have the heating and humidity figured out in his enclosure. I currently have a problem. Before setting up the enclosure I had decided on side-tank heating. For reference, this is a 40gal glass enclosure and I’m currently using a 30-40gal zilla heatmat. Now thinking everything would go well, I threw away the four little nubs that are meant to go under the tank if you use UTH. Though, lo-and-behold my warm side barely reaches 30C even though the thermostat is set to 50C while also using a heat lamp. The cold side averages about 22C. Both sides fall to around 22C (Warm) and 20C (Cold) each night and I can’t reposition the heat mat without risking a fire. (Yes ik 40 gal is big for a juvenile, I have it very cluttered I assure you.)

Does anyone have any tips? Is it safe to try and continuously raise the heat mat until it suits my needs? Is there something I can use as an alternative to the little nubbies so I may reposition the heatmat? Should I cave and just buy a stronger lamp or new heatmat?

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

I recently bought a juvenile BP and am super excited to bring him home. Currently the breeder is holding onto him until I have the heating and humidity figured out in his enclosure. I currently have a problem. Before setting up the enclosure I had decided on side-tank heating. For reference, this is a 40gal glass enclosure and I’m currently using a 30-40gal zilla heatmat. Now thinking everything would go well, I threw away the four little nubs that are meant to go under the tank if you use UTH. Though, lo-and-behold my warm side barely reaches 30C even though the thermostat is set to 50C while also using a heat lamp. The cold side averages about 22C. Both sides fall to around 22C (Warm) and 20C (Cold) each night and I can’t reposition the heat mat without risking a fire. (Yes ik 40 gal is big for a juvenile, I have it very cluttered I assure you.)

Does anyone have any tips? Is it safe to try and continuously raise the heat mat until it suits my needs? Is there something I can use as an alternative to the little nubbies so I may reposition the heatmat? Should I cave and just buy a stronger lamp or new heatmat?

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I know nothing about ball python care, but the last thing I'd ever be using to heat my snakes is a UTH. The only way it might be safe to not have the nubs is if the mat is off the table due to tank lip. I don't think you mentioned a thermostat either, which is the key to not barbecuing your house.

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I did mention a thermostat, though despite having one I would be worried about overheating if I were not to use the nubs. Do you by any chance know somewhere I could buy replacements?

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

Does anyone have any tips? Is it safe to try and continuously raise the heat mat until it suits my needs? Is there something I can use as an alternative to the little nubbies so I may reposition the heatmat? Should I cave and just buy a stronger lamp or new heatmat?

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Setting up a large glass enclosure in a room where the ambient temperatures are low is going to be a challenge. Find something to replace the nubs. Anything that will raise your enclosure a comparable distance will do. Reposition the heat mat to the bottom of one side of the enclosure and set your thermostat so that it can maintain the surface temp in the enclosure at 27C. Position your heat lamp over the opposite side of the enclosure. Replace the bulb with a ceramic heat emitter. Set your other thermostat to maintain a basking spot of 32C. You'll likely need to insulate the sides of the enclosure. Foam poster boards might work. You'll also likely need to cover the top to keep the heat and humidity from escaping. A lot of people use tin foil or foil heat tape. All that, or you could save yourself the frustration and buy a pvc enclosure and a radiant heat panel.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Setting up a large glass enclosure in a room where the ambient temperatures are low is going to be a challenge. Find something to replace the nubs. Anything that will raise your enclosure a comparable distance will do. Reposition the heat mat to the bottom of one side of the enclosure and set your thermostat so that it can maintain the surface temp in the enclosure at 27C. Position your heat lamp over the opposite side of the enclosure. Replace the bulb with a ceramic heat emitter. Set your other thermostat to maintain a basking spot of 32C. You'll likely need to insulate the sides of the enclosure. Foam poster boards might work. You'll also likely need to cover the top to keep the heat and humidity from escaping. A lot of people use tin foil or foil heat tape. All that, or you could save yourself the frustration and buy a pvc enclosure and a radiant heat panel.

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Yes, sometimes the best approach is to make the right moves early on. Pvc and rhps are the way to go. This is a ball python-named site, highly suggest you search for setup, heating, enclosure ideas. The best thing you did is wait to get your snake, so well done there. Many times people start out with less than ideal setups only to spend more money later on to do it right. We've all done it, avoid it if you have the means.

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Thank you so much for the straight forward information. I will be sure to follow these instructions to the best of my ability. Though given how much time and money me and my family have already poured into my enclosure and snake, persuading my parents to buy a whole new pvc enclosure has astronomically low odds. Once he grows, I will most likely try to upgrade to something pvc but for now I have to stick with what I have. Again, thanks for the straight forward information and wish me luck trying to achieve perfect conditions.

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

Thank you so much for the straight forward information. I will be sure to follow these instructions to the best of my ability. Though given how much time and money me and my family have already poured into my enclosure and snake, persuading my parents to buy a whole new pvc enclosure has astronomically low odds. Once he grows, I will most likely try to upgrade to something pvc but for now I have to stick with what I have. Again, thanks for the straight forward information and wish me luck trying to achieve perfect conditions.

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I understand. As Wanik said, most of us started out with less than ideal set ups, including me. We're happy to help you make it work. To that end, post pics of your improving set up and I'm sure we'll have more advice for you. If you don't know how to post pics, this thread will help: https://ball-pythons.net/forums/show...-Post-Pictures. Good luck.

You can set the tank on something else thin, it doesn't have to be the nubs. Think thin strips of wood, paint stirrers, etc. Just something to lift it up about a quarter inch.

Cover the top with foil to keep the heat and humidity in.

Any open-top enclosure will be a challenge to set up correctly if your room ambient temp is low, as you're fighting the laws of physics; warm air rises and takes the humidity with it, and glass is a poor insulator.

Personally, I use UTH & I use weatherstripping on the bottom of all my tanks. It's easy to snip a few gaps in it for wires, AND it keeps your tank from slipping around if you bump it or happen to have an earthquake*. (*been there) It's sold in most hardware & home improvement stores, in a flat spiral & is peel & stick on one side- nothing easier to use. You want the closed-cell-foam type- the open-cell squishes down too easily. This also insulates- ie. helps keep the warmth provided by the UTH under the tank where you want it. But DO snip a few gaps, both so the tank doesn't sit on any wires, but also for proper UTH installation safety.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/...AC_SL1500_.jpg

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I have found more and more veterinarians are preferring over head heat sources over belly heat sources for ball pythons. I unfortunately do not have a copy of the ARAV ball python care sheet on me, but I will see if I can find anything in it later. It is kind of like how in PVC enclosures, radiant heat panels or CHE/other heat bulbs are used and they work fine. The main difference with those though is the fact that in a glass enclosure, a RHP obviously can't be installed on screen or a plexiglass lid, and it will be almost impossible to keep the temperature up since they are not insulated as well as PVC or ABS enclosures. I'm currently looking at purchasing an ABS enclosure personally and I will be moving my snake into my bedroom since it is warmer.

I'm still changing my mind constantly about what I want to do. For example, my veterinarian believes there may be some benefit to low level UVB lighting for ball pythons, and I plan on trying to incorporate that into my new set up when I get the chance. If I can find some better sources besides word of mouth later, I will make a second post linking

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I have found more and more veterinarians are preferring over head heat sources over belly heat sources for ball pythons. I unfortunately do not have a copy of the ARAV ball python care sheet on me, but I will see if I can find anything in it later. It is kind of like how in PVC enclosures, radiant heat panels or CHE/other heat bulbs are used and they work fine. The main difference with those though is the fact that in a glass enclosure, a RHP obviously can't be installed on screen or a plexiglass lid, and it will be almost impossible to keep the temperature up since they are not insulated as well as PVC or ABS enclosures. I'm currently looking at purchasing an ABS enclosure personally and I will be moving my snake into my bedroom since it is warmer.

I'm still changing my mind constantly about what I want to do. For example, my veterinarian believes there may be some benefit to low level UVB lighting for ball pythons, and I plan on trying to incorporate that into my new set up when I get the chance. If I can find some better sources besides word of mouth later, I will make a second post linking

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The first decision is what kind of enclosure (tank, PVC, home-built cabinet) is being used- that determines the best way to heat or add light, etc. Glass tanks are not hard to insulate- just saying. ;)

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

The first decision is what kind of enclosure (tank, PVC, home-built cabinet) is being used- that determines the best way to heat or add light, etc. Glass tanks are not hard to insulate- just saying. ;)

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I don't disagree, but there are times when attempts to insulate can lead to a ghetto look or even increase the risk of fire.

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

I recently bought a juvenile BP and am super excited to bring him home. Currently the breeder is holding onto him until I have the heating and humidity figured out in his enclosure. I currently have a problem. Before setting up the enclosure I had decided on side-tank heating. For reference, this is a 40gal glass enclosure and I’m currently using a 30-40gal zilla heatmat. Now thinking everything would go well, I threw away the four little nubs that are meant to go under the tank if you use UTH. Though, lo-and-behold my warm side barely reaches 30C even though the thermostat is set to 50C while also using a heat lamp. The cold side averages about 22C. Both sides fall to around 22C (Warm) and 20C (Cold) each night and I can’t reposition the heat mat without risking a fire. (Yes ik 40 gal is big for a juvenile, I have it very cluttered I assure you.)

Does anyone have any tips? Is it safe to try and continuously raise the heat mat until it suits my needs? Is there something I can use as an alternative to the little nubbies so I may reposition the heatmat? Should I cave and just buy a stronger lamp or new heatmat?

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Heat mats for snakes belong under the tank- heat rises, so installing one on the side is very inefficient. :rolleyes: Be careful about removing it to re-install it- damage can occur that renders it inoperable.
They must also be temperature-regulated for safety- preferably with a thermostat, or with a rheostat at the very least (& be aware that some types of UTH will just go off if dimmed with a rheostat).

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Heat mats for snakes belong under the tank- heat rises, so installing one on the side is very inefficient. :rolleyes: Be careful about removing it to re-install it- damage can occur that renders it inoperable.
They must also be temperature-regulated for safety- preferably with a thermostat, or with a rheostat at the very least (& be aware that some types of UTH will just go off if dimmed with a rheostat).

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Also, reptile basics has great tape, which may be an option for your setup with a thermostat.

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I have found more and more veterinarians are preferring over head heat sources over belly heat sources for ball pythons. I unfortunately do not have a copy of the ARAV ball python care sheet on me, but I will see if I can find anything in it later.

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IME this is not so much a matter of which is better but that vets see many more snakes burned by uncontrolled UTH than bulbs, since most of the time a bulb isn't close in direct contact to snakes. I just helped out a newbie with a non eating bp and they were initially horrified at the idea of using a heat mat because they had read many horror stories online and instead had a yellow bulb running day and night that definitely wasn't going to burn their snake, not even close to keep the setup warm enough though. I had to explain the best heating is going to depend on the individual setup, species, and climate around it but that all heat sources need to be controlled and regularly checked for temps.

I’m currently looking for a ceramic heat emitter on the cheaper side and stumbled upon an off brand one being sold online at BestBuy. I was wondering if anyone knows of a standardized socket size, and whether or not a random heat emitter would fit into a ZooMed socket?

Also, how should I go about removing the heatmat? I’ve read some suggestions such as a blow dryer to melt the adhesive, running a knife between the heatmat and glass and even just trying to carefully peeling back with your hands. Any more suggestions or even risks I should know of?

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

Also, how should I go about removing the heatmat? I’ve read some suggestions such as a blow dryer to melt the adhesive, running a knife between the heatmat and glass and even just trying to carefully peeling back with your hands. Any more suggestions or even risks I should know of?

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I removed my large ZooMed Ultratherm by just peeling it off and it worked just fine afterward. Warming the surface it's attached to should make it easier.

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

Also, how should I go about removing the heatmat? I’ve read some suggestions such as a blow dryer to melt the adhesive, running a knife between the heatmat and glass and even just trying to carefully peeling back with your hands. Any more suggestions or even risks I should know of?

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You can just peel it. What I do with heat mats that I use for hospital/quarantine is I scrape off all the adhesive and when I need them for something, I use use a small amount of duct tape.

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

I’m currently looking for a ceramic heat emitter on the cheaper side and stumbled upon an off brand one being sold online at BestBuy. I was wondering if anyone knows of a standardized socket size, and whether or not a random heat emitter would fit into a ZooMed socket?

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Which brand CHE are you considering? Maybe someone here will have experience with them.

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

You can just peel it. What I do with heat mats that I use for hospital/quarantine is I scrape off all the adhesive and when I need them for something, I use use a small amount of duct tape.

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I used aluminum heat tape for mine. Worked great.

It says “sold and shipped by ISTAR” it also says the socket is E26. Does that help?

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

It says “sold and shipped by ISTAR” it also says the socket is E26. Does that help?

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E26 is the standard size for bulbs in both the U.S., where ZooMed is based, and Canada, where you are. So, I think it'll fit. Is this the CHE you are considering (link)?

Indeed it is, this is the link.https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...icken/15629459

Another question, how do I provide heat from the emitter through an aluminum foil top on the screen? Do I just cut a hole large enough for it in the foil?

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

Another question, how do I provide heat from the emitter through an aluminum foil top on the screen? Do I just cut a hole large enough for it in the foil?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by FettuccineEnjoyer

Indeed it is, this is the link.https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...icken/15629459

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This is not a seller I would trust. Broken English in the advertising tells me this is not a well run venture. I can see, though, why you'd want to go with a cheaper option. The 100w CHEs I found for sale in Canada from reputable companies (Flukers, Exoterra) were all $45 - $60. Ouch! In the States, you can get them from Reptile Basics for $15. Whoever you end up buying them from, you'll need to get two. When the first one dies on you, you don't want to have to wait for a seller to ship you another. Good luck.

Oh boy, thanks. Yeah, everything reptile in Canada is stupid expensive.