Broken ribs??

Not sure what broken ribs look like.
Should I take her to the vet? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...cdb41085f4.jpg

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I'll send a couple more photos. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...7aa00dc355.jpg

Should I schedule an appointment as soon as possible for an x-ray? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...57370d4da8.jpg

I don't know what that is- the only broken ribs I've seen in a snake appeared as a concave area (more than that ^) when the snake moved in a serpentine motion- it was visible only when the snake turned the right way. But do I remember you saying you dropped her (or she fell?) recently?

If there's any chance of broken ribs in a snake, they should not be handled. Encourage them to crawl into a container as needed, but do not pick them up- because broken ribs can be easily pushed into internal organs- causing bleeding & other damage, even death. There is no way to splint broken ribs in a snake- you have to have a vet confirm it, & allow a long time (with no handling- ask the vet how long?) for the snake's ribs to heal as they are. That's IF that's what you're dealing with here. :confusd:

The internet is no place to diagnose a snake- if you think she might need a vet, by all means, get her checked out. The vet you see should be both qualified and experienced with herps- this may help you find one nearby: https://arav.site-ym.com/search/custom.asp?id=3661

I would imagine that broken ribs would be tender. Does she react defensively when you touch her? Is her movement hampered in any way?

Perhaps it's fractured?
Yes she fell about a week ago and I didn't notice anything different until now.

I fed her a rat pup this past friday.

Yes Im probably going to take her to a vet, just wanted to check if anyone has seen something like this.

I'm not home right now, but when I do get home I'll check; when I handled her she didn't seem to act abnormal.

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I don't know what that is, but I doubt it's broken ribs. It's affecting too large an area. If it were broken ribs, we'd be talking about half a dozen ribs or more. I don't think a fall would do that. In addition, she's eating and behaving normally.

It is weird looking though. Hopefully, someone whose seen this before will chime in.

Yes I'm very confused, it looks like dimples to me? I wasn't sure if these were broken ribs.

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How about dehydration*? What's the humidity kept at? Water bowl available at all times? (*Just a possibility, not a diagnosis- & no idea why it would be localized like that.)

Two water bowls are always available and clean, One is on the warm side and one on the cool.

Humidity ranges from 60-70℅
I haven't seen her drink, so it could be possible she's dehydrated?

Her eyes aren't sunken in, and it's strange how it's only a small portion of her body is "dimpled"

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Originally Posted by Ruby

Two water bowls are always available and clean, One is on the warm side and one on the cool.

Humidity ranges from 60-70℅
I haven't seen her drink, so it could be possible she's dehydrated?

Her eyes aren't sunken in, and it's strange how it's only a small portion of her body is "dimpled"

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I agree, it doesn't make sense to be dehydration, as that wouldn't be so localized. Just trying to "brain-storm".

It almost looks to me like her skin got pinched (squished) in that area. What's in her world that could do that- anything?

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I would imagine that broken ribs would be tender. Does she react defensively when you touch her?...

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Not necessarily, & if she has broken (aka "fractured") ribs, you shouldn't push on them to see if they're tender- it could cause internal injuries & bleeding.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I don't know what that is, but I doubt it's broken ribs. It's affecting too large an area. If it were broken ribs, we'd be talking about half a dozen ribs or more. I don't think a fall would do that...

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Not necessarily. It could be any number of broken ribs, IF that's what this is.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

Not necessarily, & if she has broken (aka "fractured") ribs, you shouldn't push on them to see if they're tender- it could cause internal injuries & bleeding.

Not necessarily. It could be any number of broken ribs, IF that's what this is.

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I'll defer to your experience. When I said, "I imagine", I meant that quite literally. I have no experience with broken ribs, in snakes or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It almost looks to me like her skin got pinched (squished) in that area. What's in her world that could do that- anything?

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The only thing that can pinch her (that I can think of) is the rim of her enclosure, occasionally she'll climb up there.

But it would be on her right side if that was the case.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

I'll defer to your experience. When I said, "I imagine", I meant that quite literally. I have no experience with broken ribs, in snakes or otherwise.

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Well that's okay- medical questions like this are best answered by a qualified herp veterinarian anyway, not here or anywhere online. There's no substitute for their knowledge & experience, or especially for seeing the snake in person. As far as what pain a snake perceives from an injury like broken ribs, I'm not at all sure that they have the extensive nervous system to perceive it the way humans or other higher animals do. :confusd: Maybe they don't?

The only snake I've had with broken ribs was a w/c rosy boa, that was passed along to me as a rescuer. His ribs had healed that way (a little concave) & had done so well in his past- it didn't stop him from eating & surviving & moving around in the meantime, without medical help- so it makes me think this might not have been so painful as the same injury might have been for us? And obviously, there was no way to ask him. ;) I assume that he avoided repeating any motions that might have hurt him while he was healing?

I have a hunch that where most of the pain (for a snake) comes in is when broken ribs get pushed further inward, into other organs & all that. When the ribs are allowed to heal in place (without doing collateral damage) they get stronger, even if they don't look quite right. Obviously some breaks are much worse (more damaging) than others too. As with humans & other animals- you can have a hairline fracture- just what it sounds like, with no displacement of the bones, or all the way to compound fractures with terrible displacement of the bones, & where on the body it occurs can also make some fractures worse than others. Like if ribs heal in such a way that they restrict the animal's breathing or digestion.

99% of the time when the questions "should I see a vet?" is asked, the answer will be yes. If this is something new that you noticed in your animal, I would take them in. Wellnesses are generally recommended by most herp vets anyways, so it wouldn't hurt to get your snake in for an exam. Make sure you mention the fall.

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

99% of the time when the questions "should I see a vet?" is asked, the answer will be yes. If this is something new that you noticed in your animal, I would take them in. Wellnesses are generally recommended by most herp vets anyways, so it wouldn't hurt to get your snake in for an exam. Make sure you mention the fall.

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Yes thank you, this is my first BP and I was just curious if this was normal or if anyone else experienced something like this.

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Originally Posted by Animallover3541

99% of the time when the questions "should I see a vet?" is asked, the answer will be yes.

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99% seems high. We hear that question from a lot of new keepers when their snake hasn't pooped in a week, or eaten in a month, or looked up. In those cases, we usually reassure them that this is perfectly normal behavior, and a vet visit is unnecessary. We also get that question from keepers that have observed something really strange, like Ruby here. Even then, we'll often suggest that the keeper wait and see if it repeats, or if it's accompanied by other concerning phenomena. Of course, if we get that question from a keeper whose pet is exhibiting symptoms that we know are serious, for example, from a respiratory infection or a burn. Then, we'll advise the keeper to see a vet. I just wouldn't say that's 99% of the time.

I don't mean to knock going to see a vet. I just suggest posting to the forum first. It may save you and your snake the stress of an unnecessary vet visit.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

99% seems high. We hear that question from a lot of new keepers when their snake hasn't pooped in a week, or eaten in a month, or looked up. In those cases, we usually reassure them that this is perfectly normal behavior, and a vet visit is unnecessary. We also get that question from keepers that have observed something really strange, like Ruby here. Even then, we'll often suggest that the keeper wait and see if it repeats, or if it's accompanied by other concerning phenomena. Of course, if we get that question from a keeper whose pet is exhibiting symptoms that we know are serious, for example, from a respiratory infection or a burn. Then, we'll advise the keeper to see a vet. I just wouldn't say that's 99% of the time.

I don't mean to knock going to see a vet. I just suggest posting to the forum first. It may save you and your snake the stress of an unnecessary vet visit.

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I agree. Keepers that are new to snakes often have basic behavior & husbandry issues that need clarified, which are not ideal for busy vets, & we also worry that a vet may jump to the wrong conclusion if the issue isn't clearly defined, & prescribe meds that aren't needed & which can have detrimental side effects. Just the visit to a vet's office is stressful & somewhat harmful to snakes, & worse yet, I can't tell you how many times I've seen a vet over-restrain one of my snakes. I agree it's a fine line, & we are NOT here to substitute for veterinary help.

It also happens that a new keeper will read into every little thing their snake is doing, & panic- like when their snake is merely looking up (sniffing the air coming in, or just being curious & looking for things to climb on) but the newbie owner panics & thinks their snake is stargazing & dying of IBD because they're "read things" that they really didn't understand. We're here to help keepers understand what they're seeing in their pets, & if vet care is needed, help to ensure they get the most out of that interaction.

My snake is slightly underweight, is it possible that I've overreacted and those are just how her ribs look?

I've checked her again and those imprints seem to be all along her spine only when she curls up.

I thought it was in one localized area, but I was mistaken.

Or is it dehydration?
If it's the latter what can I do about it?

I don't want to rule out fractured ribs, so I'm still going to take her to the vet for an x-ray.

Could her ribs be fractured all along her body?

She still takes her meals perfectly.

Even if it turns out not to be broken ribs, seeing a *qualified *exotics vet with any concerns that can't be answered by experienced keepers can be valuable (*this part is important). Concerns that crop up following a fall seem even more important to get a vet's input on.

I respectfully am skeptical about the value (both absolute value, and cost to benefit ratio) of routine wellness checks, since the majority of issues that pop up are husbandry related, and experienced serious keepers are going to be much better at diagnosing these sorts of things unless the vet has extensive experience with keeping the actual species at hand. There are basic care recommendations that make a lot more sense in the abstract than they do in practice -- UVB is probably the poster child for this -- and keepers are well placed to point out practical issues that come from experience.

Anyway, the most notable mystery ailment I saw a vet for was a rainbow boa that developed a bulge on his side. After X rays and ultrasound imaging, it was determined that when he gets stressed his liver protrudes between his abdominal muscles, a bit like a hernia but transient. It went away when he was anesthetized for the imaging -- that's how it was diagnosed. Turns out to be not worrysome, but really interesting, and now I know that I need to not stress him out (overhandling did it). Just knowing all this is worth the time and money at the vet, worth it to me anyway.

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Originally Posted by Ruby

My snake is slightly underweight, is it possible that I've overreacted and those are just how her ribs look?

I've checked her again and those imprints seem to be all along her spine only when she curls up.

I thought it was in one localized area, but I was mistaken.

Or is it dehydration?
If it's the latter what can I do about it?

I don't want to rule out fractured ribs, so I'm still going to take her to the vet for an x-ray.

Could her ribs be fractured all along her body?

She still takes her meals perfectly.

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It's really important for you, as the snake's owner/keeper, to pay close attention to any new symptoms that show up. If you're now realizing this "issue" is all along her body, I'd lean toward her being underweight &/or somewhat dehydrated- it sounds like "loose skin" is what you're actually seeing. It's very unlikely she'd have that many broken ribs- ;) And eating is a great indication that all is well (but not a guarantee).

Here's the dilemma you now face: only a vet can rule out fractured ribs, but IF you take her to the vet, the stress "may" cause her to stop eating for a while- no telling how long. So it's up to you. As an experienced snake keeper, my personal decision may be different than yours- that's okay too. There's many "gray areas" in herpetoculture.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

As an experienced snake keeper, my personal decision may be different than yours- that's okay too. There's many "gray areas" in herpetoculture.

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What would you do? I'm really conflicted.

She's a great eater and I don't want to stress her out all for nothing, and because she's an underweight hatchling it's important for her to continue eating.

But on the other hand, what if something really is wrong and a vet visit could save her life?



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Originally Posted by Ruby

What would you do? I'm really conflicted.

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Do you have a qualified herp vet to take her to?

I found two exotic vets that have good reviews.

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Originally Posted by Ruby

What would you do? I'm really conflicted...

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I can't really answer that, because my experienced eyes would be seeing more than yours (or your camera) can put forth. And I have more skills than you do for snakes that refuse to eat, so that's less of a risk for me also. You'll have to make this decision- it's about what you're comfortable with.

Well, thank you all for helping me with this.

I'll leave this post open for other people who may experience something like this.

If anyone else has knowledge on this, please give your opinion!


[emoji5]

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Originally Posted by Ruby

Well, thank you all for helping me with this.

I'll leave this post open for other people who may experience something like this.

If anyone else has knowledge on this, please give your opinion!


[emoji5]

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Please do keep us posted here: if you go to the vet, what they say, & if not, how it's going & any other questions or thoughts you have. We want to help you as much as we can, but there's just only so much we can see or say online- it's not like seeing your snake in person, as a veterinarian does. And we're not here to take their place, that's not our function.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

You'll have to make this decision- it's about what you're comfortable with.

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I agree with Boger. It's your call. Taking your snake to the vet isn't a dumb thing to do. The dimples look weird and even experienced keepers can't tell you why she has them. Maybe the vet can. On the other hand, your snake is behaving normally and those same experienced keepers aren't alarmed by the dimples, so it also wouldn't be dumb to wait and see what happens. You should do what you feel most comfortable with. The funny thing is that you may not be able to get an appointment right away, so you may have no choice but to wait and see.

I'll be sure to post updates.

I think I'm going to wait a bit and monitor any strange behavior, physical changes, etc.

Thank you all for your help.

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Originally Posted by Ruby

I'll be sure to post updates.

I think I'm going to wait a bit and monitor any strange behavior, physical changes, etc.

Thank you all for your help.

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I think that's fine. It's really important to keep a snake eating, especially if they're underfed already. That might be what's causing this- it's very hard to assess a snake's weight & muscle tone from photos, because they often "inflate" with a deep breath & look fine until they exhale. But if anything changes, that can change the best option.

2 month update:

She still has the "dimples" at the base of her tail.
She's at a healthy weight now and has never refused a meal. she also had her first shed with me :)
This is strange, but I'm not too concerned about It.

If you stroke very lightly over the dimples, do they move at all (like fluid under the skin)? or stay in place? Are they only on one side, or both? If it's just an issue of muscle tone, that will probably take a long time to really resolve. I don't think it's broken ribs, but it's odd that you only noticed this after she fell that time. The thing is, there isn't much a vet can do for a snake with broken ribs- they mostly have to live with it- but having a vet diagnose the issue with an x-ray would just remind you to avoid handling & to handle very carefully when you have to, which is good advice right now anyway. The fact that she has a good appetite & gaining weight is a good reason not to worry too much about it- just stay on this path.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

it's odd that you only noticed this after she fell that time.

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I could've missed It when I got her; It's not very easy to see. I was hyper aware and checked her multiple times after I dropped her. It could've been like that before, but I'm not sure.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

If you stroke very lightly over the dimples, do they move at all (like fluid under the skin)? or stay in place? Are they only on one side, or both?

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They stay In place and they are on both sides.

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Originally Posted by Ruby

I could've missed It when I got her; It's not very easy to see. I was hyper aware and checked her multiple times after I dropped her. It could've been like that before, but I'm not sure.

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That's kinda what I figured. I'll bet it was there all along. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ruby

They stay In place and they are on both sides.

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I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. I think it's from her being underweight before you got her, & it may be quite a while before they disappear. What it reminds me of is the way some snakes bend their scales (in similar lines on their sides) when they curl up a certain way for long periods of time. That's all I think this is- but her individual scales aren't bent.

Thank you for the help! I'll update if or when it goes away.

For what it's worth, I've worked as a vet tech in exotics practices, done rescue work, and unfortunately also have experience with broken ribs in one of my snakes. One of my little Children's pythons suffered several broken ribs after an accident subsequent to an escape (I posted about it at the time so won't repeat the story here).

There's honestly nothing to be done about broken ribs other than providing pain medications (my girl got injections every other day for two weeks).

The fact that your snake has been eating would lead me to at least suspect that there were no broken ribs - these are quite painful and snakes typically stay in their hides and won't eat until they've started to heal. I don't think the dimpled areas you have noticed are cause for concern - in my own snake, and in others I've seen with broken ribs, there is often no external visible sign; the broken ribs are seen only in X-rays.

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

For what it's worth, I've worked as a vet tech in exotics practices, done rescue work, and unfortunately also have experience with broken ribs in one of my snakes. One of my little Children's pythons suffered several broken ribs after an accident subsequent to an escape (I posted about it at the time so won't repeat the story here).

There's honestly nothing to be done about broken ribs other than providing pain medications (my girl got injections every other day for two weeks).

The fact that your snake has been eating would lead me to at least suspect that there were no broken ribs - these are quite painful and snakes typically stay in their hides and won't eat until they've started to heal. I don't think the dimpled areas you have noticed are cause for concern - in my own snake, and in others I've seen with broken ribs, there is often no external visible sign; the broken ribs are seen only in X-rays.

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I'm sorry to hear you've had experience with broken ribs :( doesn't sound like a fun time.
Thank you so much for your help.

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Originally Posted by Ruby

I'm sorry to hear you've had experience with broken ribs :( doesn't sound like a fun time.
Thank you so much for your help.

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Thanks, and my little troublemaker had a complete recovery. She's absolutely fine these days, is in a lovely escape-proof enclosure, is active and climbs and stays busy - you'd never know she'd been injured.

It sounds to me like your lovely pied is fine, and I am glad you are keeping a close eye on her condition. Generally falls aren't a problem unless they are from a significant height and on a hard surface.

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Originally Posted by Caitlin

Thanks, and my little troublemaker had a complete recovery. She's absolutely fine these days, is in a lovely escape-proof enclosure, is active and climbs and stays busy - you'd never know she'd been injured.

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Aww, I'm glad shes doing so great.