The US-ARK thing: what's your disaster plan?

I've been reading a lot US-ARK related posts (particularly the alerts), and I've been curious to know your disaster plans.

Let's say a law is passed in your state that prevents x, where x is a thing you do, regarding reptiles. What is your disaster plan? Just give up and sell everything? Look into moving state? Raise an army of noodles to try and take over congress?

I'm the the UK so it doesn't affect me, but I'd like to voice my support for any opposition movements to anything. I'm very much a don't step on snek person. Here is my country, I can't even attempt to live feed without necessity, as I will immediately be thrown into prison, lose my job, and be given a criminal record if discovered — no questions asked. I know voicing support doesn't do much, but every little thing helps, as they say in TESCOs.

Also, merry Christmas!

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Originally Posted by xAnthemia

... Raise an army of noodles to try and take over congress? ...

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Hmm? Good idea! :rofl: Seriously, sticking together is the first thing, & that's where USARK comes into play. It's the same reason that workers join unions...to protect their rights.

With alerts from USARK, we can speak up to our representatives in government & that let's them know that we're paying attention & fighting back. USARK is good but they can't do it alone- we need to pay attention & be vocal when they post alerts- not be "doormats".

I think it's also on all of us to help educate others about snakes (being good pets, & reducing people's fear) whenever we can. It may seem like "a drop in the bucket" but those drops do add up to changing minds, & thereby changing acceptance. And supporting rescue & educational organizations that do this helps as well. There's so much misinformation & fear to overcome- we just have to keep at it.

I agree with Bogertophis completely here.

Education, support, and vocalization.

Remember, you can support USARK by becoming a member (you get a T-shirt and it's not that expensive) or making a donation. Everything helps. They are a great organization and have our backs as reptile keepers.

Additionally, you can reach out to your politicians when something comes up, or even preemptively. Let them know that freedom isn't just about speech, voting, firearms, etc. but also in ones ability to enjoy their life. That includes pets that are (mostly) harmless.

I think things worth worrying about when it comes to breaking a law are:

• the penalties for violating the law, and whether those are worth risking,
• the moral/public good worth of the the law itself,
• whether a violation could be a matter of productive civil disobedience
• the public perception of both those who break the law and the group(s) that might be seen as guilty by association
• the aftereffects of individual or group violations of the law (such as followup/reactionary, 'get-tough-on-x' legislation)

I'd personally consider how those all play out in a given circumstance and then decide how to proceed. In all the plausible reptile related scenarios I imagine, simply following the law while speaking out about it is likely going to be the most reasonable and productive choice.

Edit to add: it seems you didn't even ask about whether to obey or violate the law. Interesting how that was the extent of my thoughts about the issue. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Malum Argenteum

I think things worth worrying about when it comes to breaking a law are:

• the penalties for violating the law, and whether those are worth risking,
• the moral/public good worth of the the law itself,
• whether a violation could be a matter of productive civil disobedience
• the public perception of both those who break the law and the group(s) that might be seen as guilty by association
• the aftereffects of individual or group violations of the law (such as followup/reactionary, 'get-tough-on-x' legislation)

I'd personally consider how those all play out in a given circumstance and then decide how to proceed. In all the plausible reptile related scenarios I imagine, simply following the law while speaking out about it is likely going to be the most reasonable and productive choice.

Edit to add: it seems you didn't even ask about whether to obey or violate the law. Interesting how that was the extent of my thoughts about the issue. :cool:

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In the eyes of most "disinterested parties" (others in society who are neutral in opinion, uninvolved or uninformed), overtly disobeying laws (even unjust and hastily passed ones) are seen as evidence to discredit all those stepping out of line- in other words, giving a black eye to reptile keepers who already have an uphill climb to change public opinions about reptiles & those who keep them.

So yes, I agree- we do much better when we remain mature & responsible law-abiding members of society, giving no reason for public opinion to go against us. ;) Speak out, yes, but follow the laws- doing otherwise will only backfire & make us look bad ("guilty"), turning more public opinion against snake (reptile) keepers. Remember that many people are pet-lovers- they just haven't yet been convinced that reptiles too are pets, & good ones for the right owners.

That's why we must do everything we can BEFORE such laws are passed, whenever possible. Make those calls & write those letters to your representatives. And change minds whenever you can to give reptiles & reptile-keepers a positive image. And for heavens sake, support USARK! None of us can do this alone- we need to stand together.

A world-renowned locality boa breeder was put out of business because of local laws.
No group was able to do anything.

Vote wisely.

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Originally Posted by bns

A world-renowned locality boa breeder was put out of business because of local laws.
No group was able to do anything.

Vote wisely.

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It's hard to comment without knowing specifics- were there local laws in place before his business got going? (ie. Did he start off in violation or did they pass laws just to put him out of business?)

Anyway "forewarned is forearmed" as they say. "Vote wisely" for sure, & be skeptical too, since some politicians just tell everyone what they want to hear in order to get voted in. So dig deep. ;)

Without giving this a ton of thought, my knee jerk reaction is that I would quietly disobey. In my scenario, keeping Children's pythons would become illegal. It is simply inconceivable to me that the penalty would be very great or enforcement vigorous.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

Without giving this a ton of thought, my knee jerk reaction is that I would quietly disobey. In my scenario, keeping Children's pythons would become illegal. It is simply inconceivable to me that the penalty would be very great or enforcement vigorous.

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To you & I, it seems ridiculous that anything like a pet Childrens python could be seen as a threat, but there are plenty of snake-haters that cover their ears & fail to learn, much less acknowledge, the wide differences among pythons- to them, they're all gigantic man-eaters. :rolleyes:

If your snake was illegal & discovered, the worst penalty is that it could be taken away & possibly killed intentionally, or injured just by the process. Monetary fines would be the least issue IMO- other legal consequences would come in 2nd.

I don't know if authorities are any better at snake confiscations now than they were years ago (& I'm sure it varies widely by locations, personnel training & their attitudes) but I can remember reading about F & G agents being clueless when measuring snakes they confiscated, to the extent that they caused inadvertent internal injuries & deaths due to the snakes being forcibly stretched to be measured for their reports and charges filed. (The longer the snakes were, the more of a threat they seemed to be & the better their report & charges filed.) "Oops"? :O Not to mention that when snakes are confiscated, even IF they're legally returned to the owner once laws are sorted out, they are often held in poor conditions (improper temperatures etc) so when/if they're returned, they're sick or injured. Just saying...take it seriously.

So much for knee jerk reactions. It occurred to me after I posted that my pet is registered, so quiet disobedience probably wouldn't work. They know what I keep and they have my address. I suppose, in that case, I'd rehome him.

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Originally Posted by Homebody

So much for knee jerk reactions. It occurred to me after I posted that my pet is registered, so quiet disobedience probably wouldn't work. They know what I keep and they have my address. I suppose, in that case, I'd rehome him.

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Let's hope it NEVER comes to anything like that. :tears: For any of us.

Violating/ignoring the law is not an option for me as I have a security clearance and a federal firearms license. So, any kind of conviction would cost me my day job and my small business. The critters would have to be rehomed, or I would move.

Fortunately my state seems to be one of the last where the elected officials even seem to care about the issue. I'm also on a first name/I have your cell phone # basis with a few current and former local politicians in the state legislature, so should something get introduced they will hear from me very quickly.

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Originally Posted by Bogertophis

It's hard to comment without knowing specifics- were there local laws in place before his business got going? (ie. Did he start off in violation or did they pass laws just to put him out of business?) ...

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Laws were passed many years after he started.

Regulations will happen at state and federal levels...banning will be local.

A county next door to me passed a 'no constrictor law'...and it put a good size corn snake breeder out of the hobby. How scary is a corn snake?

I saw a recent headline where a very large retic was loose in a small Texas (I think) town and there have been many this year (cobra, boas and pythons on the loose). That's all it takes...A couple of furry pets go missing...a large snake capable of killing a child prowling a neighborhood...and some angry people who decide on safety to make sure this doesn't happen again or worse. And they're right...anyone who has an escapee shouldn't be keeping snakes.

Try going to a town meeting and educating parents of small children bent on banning...about how safe their child is with your 6-foot + constrictor...that your own people say needs a two-person rule to handle. Or explain how your snakes can't get out of their enclosures...like the ones they see on the news or social media that did just that. We are point zero zero one percent of the 'norm' and have very little support locally...your own community will be your demise.

I've been to schools, participated in local educational events...no more for me. It's my private hobby.

Sorry folks, its already happening and has been for years it just doesn't make the news.

We need more of the public to go to Google, search 'child dog attack' and then hit 'images' (if you try this at home, steel yourself first). Sure puts the risk of snakes into perspective, and gives reason to think that the fear of them is way out of proportion to that of other animals that we actually let sleep in our kids' beds.

It is well known here in farm country that horses and cows are the most dangerous non-human animal we're likely to encounter, and that's backed up by data. Cat bites are much more dangerous than most people know (30% hospitalization rate on cases that receive medical attention, here). If dangerous captive animals need to be prohibited, then horses, cats and dogs need to go first.

Reptile bans are sometimes enacted out of legitimate conservation concerns, but all other purported reasons (such as public safety) are groundless. Simple fear and ignorance.

Ideally, I'll eventually be at a point in my life where I can live somewhere remote and away from it all. Nobody will care what I own because nobody will be around to care. No way would I register anything that doesn't have to be either because at this rate that's just putting a free target on your back when they eventually goad further and decide "Oops sorry, instead of needing to register this with a license we decided it's completely illegal for you to keep this animal now." Sometimes people who already own a given species are allowed to keep individuals after a ban is swept over, but it's never a guarantee.

I won't delve further due to the topic, but let's just say stripping away our rights to keep snakes and other "exotics" is but the tip of the iceberg as to what those in power have in mind. We're just the easiest demographic to rally the masses against right now.